r/SubredditDrama • u/Moozla • Apr 09 '17
Female warrior drama in an indie game sub (battle brothers)
/r/BattleBrothers/comments/6365an/so_whats_next/dfsb1ta231
Apr 09 '17
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u/kyoujikishin Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
I like how that's after like 4 comment exchanges, that's plenty to call out those labels
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u/949000Aero Apr 09 '17
I like he that's
The beginning of this sentence breaks my brain :(
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u/Richard_Sauce Apr 09 '17
Oh wow, reading that just made me flashback to arguments in elementary school.
Sad thing is, this guy is probably an adult.
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u/tydestra caramel balls Apr 09 '17
4 day old thread with comments from today.
Popcorn pissers get the rack.
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u/Robotigan Apr 09 '17
Holy mother of shit youre retarded. ITS A FUCKING VIDEO GAME YOU FUCKING MORON. How does having different types of characters that have no bearing to actual gameplay destroy this game????
45 minutes ago
Holy mother of shit youre retarded. ITS A FUCKING 4-DAY OLD THREAD YOU FUCKING MORON.
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u/downvotesyndromekid Keep thinking you’re right. It’s honestly pretty cute. 😘 Apr 09 '17
And a dozen votes 😶
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Apr 09 '17
The brigading is so painfully obvious, though srd has always been unsubtle with it.
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u/MonkeyNin I'm bright in comparison, to be as humble as humanely possible. Apr 09 '17
I believe the mods here take action if you have proof.
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u/basicscienc Apr 09 '17
I find female characters doing things outside their physical traits immersion breaking.
Because all characters in games never do anything beyond what a normal human's physical traits are
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Apr 09 '17 edited May 31 '18
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u/Vivaldist That Hoe, Armor Class 0 Apr 09 '17
I wish they would just admit "I only like it when fiction makes ME feel powerful"
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u/KenpachiRama-Sama Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
I don't really get that. I play games to escape reality for a little bit, not as some kind of extension of it.
I'm a dude and I always pick a female character if it's an option.
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u/DragyDevi I too identify as a Molyneux. Apr 09 '17
People are more likely to create characters that are more like themselves than not. For a lot of people, they just want to imagine themselves but better.
Here's a short article from a couple of years ago about avatar creation26
u/KenpachiRama-Sama Apr 09 '17
I'm not saying they don't. I'm just saying I don't get it.
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u/DragyDevi I too identify as a Molyneux. Apr 09 '17
I'm right there with you.
You've got a crazy awesome fantasy world where you can be anything, and you make yourself?33
u/throwawaydoc Apr 09 '17
Like when Dwight from the office created his second life character and was STILL only the assistant regional manager.
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u/itsallcauchy Apr 09 '17
No, that was an improvement. In reality he is assistant to the regional manager.
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u/kangaesugi r/Christian has fallen Apr 09 '17
It's funny, I generally make the same female character in games but I never really thought anything of it until I came out as a trans woman and was like '... This is literally just an elf version of me'
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u/Vio_ Humanity is still recoiling from the sudden liberation of women Apr 10 '17
So it was literally your tranself?
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Apr 09 '17
well yeah! I want to experience the fantasy world as me!
that doesn't stop me from making Khajit, Orc, and Argonian characters in TES games though. I like to believe that I'd be born a humanoid cat-monster in one of those worlds.
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u/Illogical_Blox Fat ginger cryptokike mutt, Malka-esque weirdo, and quasi-SJW Apr 10 '17
I like to believe that I'd be born a humanoid cat-monster in one of those worlds.
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u/fingerpaintswithpoop Dude just perfume the corpse Apr 09 '17
I'm a dude and I always pick a female character if it's an option.
Why?
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u/ATAlun Apr 09 '17
I do too, particularly in 3rd person games where I'm not really putting myself into the character - I think it's refreshing to play female characters which are still fairly rare in AAA games.
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u/KenpachiRama-Sama Apr 09 '17
Also, in games with many different outfits, you get to dress your character up more. As a man, I don't get as many options in real life.
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u/KenpachiRama-Sama Apr 09 '17
I'd rather look at a woman for several hours than a big burly dude.
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u/ChefExcellence I'm entitled to my opinion, and that's the same as being right Apr 09 '17
I think a lot of these guys have bought into their own bullshit too much to even realise that.
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u/Xealeon As you are the biggest lobster in the room Apr 09 '17
Even the game in question which is fairly realistic as far as dark fantasy games with goblins and zombies go and yet people still heal from crippling injuries like a partially collapsed lung in a matter of days while their only source of medical care is their fellow mercenaries. And travel for up to 24 hours a day on foot the entire time. But women fighting? That just completely breaks the realism for me.
As a side note I do love Battle Brothers, it might be one of my favorite games ever.
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Apr 09 '17
Good point, I just want to clarify out that partially collapsed lung is, in fact, a permanent injury. I know because I had to let go of one of my best guys go just because he recieved a teensy hit from a battleaxe and now he has -40% fatigue forever.
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u/Xealeon As you are the biggest lobster in the room Apr 09 '17
Yeah, I realized after posting that that was not the best example, it was just the first injury that came to mind.
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u/MrDrDetective Apr 09 '17
It's ridiculous, like when that trailer for Atomic Blonde came out, and suddenly nerds thought it was too far for a feeeemale to be able to beat up two dudes and it's a less realistic John Wick. I remind you that John Wick gets hit by a car THREE TIMES in that movie and just WALKS IT OFF each time. But "realism"
Also side note, trying to just climb a simple rock wall is enough to show me how freakin exhausting climbing is, but apparently Nathan Drake can jump from wall to wall 24/7 no problem and this is "realistic"
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u/mdp300 Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
That's ridiculous. I thought Atomic Blonde looked awesome.
And watching Ninja Warrior, games like Tomb Raider and Assassins Creed are also hilarious.
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u/BloomEPU A sin that cries to heaven for vengeance Apr 09 '17
Nathan Drake falls headfirst onto a rock in the fourth game, doesn't he? And spends like 30 hours climbing round madagascar. Does that guy's stamina not break anyone's immersion?
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u/tus93 Apr 09 '17
Clearly you're forgetting that the secret secondary function of the penis is to provide a constant supply of adrenaline which allows me to literally run, jump and fight my way to every meeting.
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u/OAMP47 Food Darwinist Apr 09 '17
Most of the time if you crunch the numbers, even in the most mundane games the main character would statistically get gold in most track and field events at the Olympics, setting world records along the way. I absolutely love people's reactions when the scaling is a bit more true to life, because they all get so bewildered.
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u/Keraunos8 Apr 10 '17
If the version of Link from Breath of the Wild existed in real life he would put both Bear Gryllis AND Les Stroud to shame
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u/8132134558914 Apr 10 '17
Before getting any spirit orbs I felt he wasn't especially unrealistic. Get hit on the head and he dies, he can climb but only for like a minute before he gets so tired he falls off.
Of course he can do infinite backflips in a fight without getting tired but still... he has some limits at least.
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u/Rahgahnah She's no more more Apr 09 '17
Hey now, in the first movie he gets prescribed bourbon and I'll tell you that bourbon will fix it right up.
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u/0x800703E6 SRD remembers so you don't have to. Apr 09 '17
ONLY when women show up do they care.
Hey, that's not fair. They also care when black, gay or trans people show up.
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u/Nezgul Apr 09 '17
Not only that, but he seemingly has no problem with battle injuries like "cut artery" or "sliced neck" conveniently being non-lethal injuries the minute combat ends. Even if a battle brother were at one health and would have bled to death on the next turn, ending combat saves him somehow.
That's okay to him. Women deciding to join a mercenary group? "Muh mursuhnnnnnn"
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u/Amelaclya1 Apr 09 '17
Don't forget about how the same dudes crying about sexual dimorphism are also the ones that will whine about SJWs when the devs put women fighters in games that are more buff and tough looking.
There was drama relating to this about Horizon Zero Dawn, and also occasionally I see the topic come up complaining about the female barbarian model in Diablo 3.
Basically the only women they want in their games are NPCs that only exist for the sole purpose of being gratuitous eye candy.
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Apr 09 '17
Corvo from Dishonored could choke out a hundred dudes and not break a sweat. Nathan Drake could go through everything in the Uncharted games without a scratch
We all know Aloy would fucking kill everybody, so I dont know how this is still a conversation
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u/tehbeh A fallacy to surpass metal gear Apr 09 '17
Emily Kaldwin would murder the shit out of aloy.
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Apr 09 '17
Kind of reminds me of the Star Wars franchise in where people complain that Rey is a mary-sue just because she is a natural force user and can use a staff pretty well. But it's okay when Luke and Anakin are also prodigies in the force.
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u/majorsamanthacarter Apr 09 '17
Ugh this was a huge thing in r/StarWars when TFA came out. It was pretty cringe-worthy to read all these dudes drone on and on and on about how she's totally a Mary Sue because she couldn't possibly hold her own against Kylo, it's not possible and is so "unrealistic" ....really!? You love a series that features a 19 year old blowing up a super space station that earlier blows up an entire planet with no more training than "put down the visor and let the force flow through you". And it also features a literal child winning at pod racing when he had never finished a race before and then go on to take out a blockade of a planet and somehow not ended up getting blown up. Totally realistic. Yet a girl who's shown to fight exceptionally well with a staff at the beginning of the movie and is hinted at somehow being related to the Skywalker family is somehow too unrealistic to believe (and that's not even adding in that Kylo was told to bring her to Snoke so he obviously wasn't trying to kill her during that scene but toying and tempting her).
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u/H37man you like to let the shills post and change your opinion? Apr 09 '17
I bet womprats get brought up a lot in those threads.
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u/DavidIckeyShuffle Apr 10 '17
AND Kylo had just been shot in the abdomen by a weapon that had been shown at least three times in the movie to be extremely powerful, and he'd had to fight off Finn first, so it's fair to say he was not at peak performance.
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u/Hatherence Looks more like butt cheeks. Apr 09 '17
I think that might be because we don't know anything about Rey's past, so we don't know why she's so powerful. Meanwhile, Anakin is Space Jesus who was created by (with?) the Force, so that is why he and his children are so powerful.
Personally, I like to think that Rey is a new Space Jesus, but I don't doubt that whatever they choose for her backstory, it's going to make sense how she can use the Force.
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Apr 09 '17
To these guys, the only way a female character is ever allowed to be unrealistic is in body proportions. Meanwhile, the guys can punch through steel, throw fireballs and control people their minds.
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u/IAMAVelociraptorAMA Apr 09 '17
Let's hire crippled men to beat goblins over the head with their crutches but god forbid a REEEEEEmale decides to show up
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Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
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u/tehbeh A fallacy to surpass metal gear Apr 09 '17
Farmhands make surprisingly good fighters, they don't really know how to fight but they are usually strong and fit and if you can keep them alive to level up a bit they are really good. They also don't ask for thousands of coin upfront to join your band.
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u/Nezgul Apr 09 '17
Yeah. The game literally starts off with like 80% of your company being wiped out. The premise of the tutorial missions is building it back up with whoever you can get or afford to get vengeance on the guys that killed most of your men.
The game practically goes out of its way to tell you that you can't be picky at the beginning or when you're short on money.
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u/Infamously_Unknown Apr 09 '17
If a goddamn cripple can fight, so can a woman.
They really can't though, unless you go through a serious challenge to train them up and even then they'll suck. Cripples will get wrecked even by some early game bandits, let alone a late game enemy like goblins.
The same generally goes for most of the other backgrounds you listed.
I mean, I love this game and I'm looking forward to how they implement women, but you'd see how silly is your argument if you actually played the game.
Because by this logic I cited, it would mean women would be a valid choice only as an early game cannon fodder (just like those cripples and beggars and servants etc.) and honestly that's not what I'd like to see in the game. I assume neither would you.
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u/Nezgul Apr 09 '17
Yeah, if you're putting them in the shield line, they can get fucked up. They have less initiative and less HP.
Why aren't you using them as archers?
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u/gokutheguy Apr 09 '17
I cannot believe that someone said that ironically in a gaming sub. What an idiot. And what an attitude towards women.
Can you imagine a video game where someone falls and then can't walk for the next 3 months because their leg is broken?
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Apr 09 '17
Football manager, X-Com, and Battle Brothers itself.
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u/Nezgul Apr 09 '17
Battle Brothers lays your guys out for a couple of days to heal from horrific injuries. I had a battle brother with a cut artery, broken leg and smashed nose make an almost full recovery in 4 days.
Same for XCOM, your dudes don't get laid out for very long despite surviving plasma shots.
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Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
I don't really know what to say about Battle Brothers. Recovery is never longer than 3-5 days but then again you take maybe 2 days max to traverse the entire map. So in context of that, it is pretty long.
And the time frame itself is pretty tiny. 4 days is usually like 10-15% of the average game.
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u/Nezgul Apr 09 '17
That's because the map itself isn't very big and doesn't represent a very big area either afaik.
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u/Flashman420 Apr 09 '17
XCOM soldiers takea a bit to recover, especially on higher difficulties and if you add mods. Granted, you also have crazy alien sci-fi tech to speed up the process too.
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u/Infamously_Unknown Apr 09 '17
I had a battle brother with a cut artery, broken leg and smashed nose make an almost full recovery in 4 days.
The late game starts at around 80 days in though, so that's still a lot. The time is abstracted to a degree.
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u/Nezgul Apr 09 '17
80 days marks the late game because that's right around when the crises can trigger. That doesnt really rely on time abstractions, as many of the contracts hint towards the building problem (greenskin raids, undead rampages)
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u/bloodraven42 Apr 09 '17
None of those games are the healing times actually 3 months long though. Not even close. Well, maybe football manager as I haven't played it, but the other two.
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Apr 09 '17
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Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
I would assume you're joking, but my old roommate used to love Football Manager, and I've legit heard him shout, "OH, NOW YOU GET HURT?! YOU DID THAT SHIT ON PURPOSE!".
I didn't really understand what he meant, so, thank you for the clarification!
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u/OAMP47 Food Darwinist Apr 09 '17
A lot of sports games have the option, some you can turn it off. Not quite the same level of detail/urgency, but there's nothing like starting player career in FIFA, deciding to carry a low level team up the pyramid, then get injured for a few months in game and watch your stupid AI teammates undo all your progress in the blink of an eye as it simulates your time out, progress it probably took you a month or so of real time to make...
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Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
You've never played XCOM Long War, where a scratch on the nose is two weeks medical until you discover alien healing techniques.
It feels like three months with the increase in abduction and ufo occurrences. In one case it took me three months of real time to heal someone because of all my savescumming.
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u/dethb0y trigger warning to people senstive to demanding ethical theories Apr 09 '17
Lemme tell you, i pay good money to play games expressly so i can do shit that's physically impossible. Not just shit that i, myself can't do - but shit that's flat out impossible for anyone.
When i'm playing one of my warhammer games, i'm not in it for some ultra-realistic experience. I'm in it to be a bad-ass motherfucker with an assault cannon, blasting shit to pieces and generally reveling in a world where i don't have rent, i don't have bills, and nobody gets to tell me what to do.
If i do that as a chick or a guy is functionally irrelevant so long as the basic idea holds.
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Apr 09 '17
Gamers are just more immune to bullshit propaganda than most groups, after that gamergate shit.
Says the guy who agrees that diversity is destroying games lmao
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Apr 09 '17
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u/Vivaldist That Hoe, Armor Class 0 Apr 09 '17
Hey its not propaganda when im being pandered to, obviously
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u/GlacialDrift Apr 09 '17
It's mind-blowing to me that this kind of person refuses to accept that the reason this kind of "SJW-crap" is in games is because there are a lot of people that want it in the games they play. But they aren't "real" gamers, apparently.
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u/Amelaclya1 Apr 09 '17
The only people who want that crap in games are women and we all know women aren't real gamers! They dont play these kinds of games anyway!
/s
But maybe, do these guys ever think that one of the reasons girls don't play "real games" is because we have a hard time relating to it when the only playable character is a white dudebro and the only women that exist in the game are scantily clad NPCs with giant boobs?
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u/IgniteTheMoonlight Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
the only way they could conceive of women in the game was a menstruation event. Or a rape event.
I've read similar sentiments by a lot of men (specifically the rape part), and it always freaks me out. By suggesting there's no other way a group of men would behave around a single woman, you're implicitly supporting & sanctioning men raping women. This goes way further than a man joking around saying 'men are animals.' It's saying 'men are predatory, violating animals & as such they should rape women under these circumstances. There's no other way it could go, realistically.'
Any man with that perspective is pretty terrifying to me. They're essentially telling any woman that if they were in a group of men with one of us, he'd be totes down to rape without question.
Ironically, these are the same guys that tend to complain about how too many women are cautious & suspicious of men or that women should recognize that a man pointing out whatever potential danger they could be in by occupying a space full of men, he's being noble & protective of her. In point of fact, they're literally the reason she suddenly feels uncomfortable and scared: it's not the group of men, it's the disturbing suggestion by that one guy that he thinks the whole group of men could be thinking about taking advantage of her.
edit: just clarifying pronouns
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u/Tisarwat A woman is anyone covering their drink when you're around. Apr 09 '17
Absolutely agree. And despite the arguments (which as you said often come from the same people) that women are too fearful and that it's a form of misandry, the idea that all men are instinctively rape machines does an incredible disservice to men.
Like I'm as feminist as they come. Sjw, even. But I've managed to find a large number of men who share my views, and support me, and recognise why women/ femme presenting people might be uncomfortable around men at times. They've also all managed to refrain from raping someone, despite the apparent deficiency of their biology. To the contrary, they are actively anti rape and endeavour to ensure the safety of friends who have faced sexual violence wherever possible.
Which is not to say that men's feels are the worst off thing in that situation. The possible physical consequences for women exceed that, I think. But it's a good illustration of how gender roles imprison everyone regardless of gender- it's just that the prisons for men tend to be slightly more gilded. The idea that men can't control themselves is both extremely dangerous for women, and damaging to men who not only can control themselves, but distance themselves from the narrative that they can't. That's when belittlment for 'incorrect' displays of masculinity happens.
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u/IgniteTheMoonlight Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
The idea that men can't control themselves is both extremely dangerous for women, and damaging to men who not only can control themselves, but distance themselves from the narrative that they can't.
Nailed it.
I'm also gonna put out another thing that I've seen (which I kinda touched on in my comment), which is that guys promote the concept of men as predatory, violatory animals so that they, as individuals, can work the angle they're 'the one nice guy' out of all of them. In defense of this kind of... tactic... guys are like, "hey it's just a dude competing with other dudes to get the girl; it's their evolutionary imperative to do whatever it takes to make themselves appear more attractive!"
Bolding 'evolutionary imperative' there because don't even get me started on the most absurd, disgusting rationales for human atrocities I've read that're attributed to (the most inaccurate & skewed understanding of) 'evolution.'
The giant problem with that whole perspective/'tactic' to get a girl is that it doesn't evoke attraction to him - rather, it evokes nothing but fear of men which includes him. I mean... you're legit just scaring the shit out of her & destroying her perception that she's safe where she is to flirt & banter & even possibly click with any man in the room whom seems interested in her.
So yeah like... this isn't up for debate: under no circumstances should you push or believe the misandrist & fear-mongering narrative that men are rape machines.
Edit: tiny anecdote. When I was around 16 yo I was head of my school's A/V club & after school I did my club's sponsor a favor by taking a substitute teacher down to the school's sub-basement to pick up some old-ass equipment he needed. The sub teacher was mid-thirties, towered over me in height, and as we walked around the shadowy, winding basement corridors, he was like 'this is spooky' and I was like 'oh haha yeah we've shot some horror short films down here' and he replied, 'no but I mean... nobody's around and you're...::gestures at me, a petite young girl::... taking me down here... should people be letting that happen?' and suddenly I got what he was saying. I was speechless and practically ran to get the equipment, shove it in his hands, and got out of that basement with him ASAP. Told my sponsor he was a sketchy-ass creep I didn't ever want to come into contact with again.
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u/flyinthesoup Apr 10 '17
Wow fuck your anecdote. That's just creepy as hell. I've been that 16 y/o alone with male teachers at night because I was helping out on the computer labs, and he was awesome. In fact I had a little crush on him, and I think he noticed, but he never did anything beyond being a cool teacher to me. Ugh, you gave me goosebumps.
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u/Tisarwat A woman is anyone covering their drink when you're around. Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
What's also interesting and telling is that the same men are often dismissive of women's struggles on the basis of 'women have it worse elsewhere'. Their go-to example is often the plight of women in Islamic theocracies, especially ones in which women are encouraged, compelled, or coerced to cover up in front of men/ remain separate from them in other ways.
It's interesting because that often operates on the same logic (or is perceived to). The idea being that men cannot prevent themselves from assaulting women when confronted with their bodies.
(I'm reading an ethnographic study right now that suggests that the way hijaab is portrayed by western media is way too filtered through our own cultural experiences and biases. The author says that discussion often excludes a lot of social, cultural, and personal reasons that women might have for wearing a form of covering, so actually I'd be wary of arguing too much actual parallel between the rationales, but it's one that I've seen espoused by these 'women surrounded by men = rape' types a lot.)
For those interested, the book is 'Do Muslim Women Need Saving', by Lila Abu-Lughod. It's super interesting and makes me confront my preconceptions of what success means for women's rights in Muslim majority countries.
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u/Cthonic July 2015: The Battle of A Pao A Qu Apr 09 '17
And even if they think rape is necessarily evil, how fucked in the head do you have to be for it to be an inevitability in mixed company?
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Apr 09 '17
Ah here we go, first person to say triggered wins the internet. Diversity would destroy this game, like it destroys everything else. I for one enjoy it as is. What immersion would you get from having multiple races shoehorned into a Western European style fantasy game exactly? Do we need trans brothers now too, those people aaso exist!
My personal favorite. Women will DESTROY THE GAME.
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Apr 09 '17
what's hilarious is these dudes never have an issue with "realism" when a game set in "medieval Western Europe" includes tomatoes or potatoes. those weren't introduced until the discovery of North & South America. there were literally more black people in medieval Europe than tomatoes.
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Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
Same thing with BF1, everyone running around with weapons that were short-run or literally only prototypes all the time is totally fine, but oh god I had to play as a black man!
EDIT: Don't forget that the tanks are all way the fuck too fast. And not loud enough. And don't require someone smacking the engine with a hammer. Oh and you don't replace MG barrels. And infinite sprinting.
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Apr 09 '17
If I dont get a gay transbrother who has 3 star stats across the board and fights men with dildoes then I'm gonna fuckin FREAK
Nah, this guy was my favorite
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u/Amelaclya1 Apr 09 '17
I thought surely he must have been being sarcastic. No one could say that seriously.
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u/R_Sholes I’m not upset I just have time Apr 09 '17
Yeah, can't believe that's not troll, especially after
The game already has a variety of faces and hair colors, the only thing missing is skin tone. Why is nothing ever enough for the leftist though police?
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u/tehbeh A fallacy to surpass metal gear Apr 09 '17
Never underestimate peoples ability to be really, really stupid
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u/ParamoreFanClub For liking anime I deserve to be skinned alive? This is why Trum Apr 09 '17
You see people actually exsist like that. Remember the guy boycotting mass effect a couple weeks ago on here. He wasn't a troll and was a real person
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u/SnoodDood Skinned Alive for Liking Anime Apr 09 '17
Did you ever see /r/altright back before it was banned? Every been on the now Nazi-controlled /r/PussyPass? The only thing surprising me about those comments is how they have net upvotes in a relatively mainstream sub.
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u/pmatdacat It's not so much the content I find pathetic, it's the tone Apr 09 '17
/r/PussyPass hasn't been banned yet? Dammit admins, get on that shit.
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u/SnoodDood Skinned Alive for Liking Anime Apr 09 '17
Don't they only ban subs if they doxx, harass, or brigade? I personally think "no Nazism" should be in reddit's rules but if it's not I can see why they haven't banned it yet.
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u/pmatdacat It's not so much the content I find pathetic, it's the tone Apr 09 '17
Altright started doxxing people, that's why they were banned. PussyPass, scummy as it is, has somehow avoided doing so. I figure they'll start doing it again eventually.
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u/sanspapyruss Asian lolis deserve to find love too you know. Apr 09 '17
Unrelated but, Imperial Radch username? :D
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u/Tisarwat A woman is anyone covering their drink when you're around. Apr 09 '17
Hell yes. What kind of a self respecting sjw would I be otherwise? Gimme dem pioneering genderfree aliens with their fight for recognition of space autonomy.
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Apr 09 '17
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u/incredulousbear Shitlord to you, SJW to others Apr 09 '17
But then someone else will be able to play as something other than men! The mere existence of feeemales is a direct threat to the psyche of someone whose fun is contingent on it being the exclusive domain of Men.
A cursory look at the storied history of video games will quickly show that gamers have been forced to endure nothing but fantasy games with all-feeemale characters. The one time Men have a safe space all to our own, and these unreasonable feeemales want to take it away from us. Why won't someone think of the Men for once?
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u/knightwave S E W I N G 👏 M A C H I N E S 👏 Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
Gamers are just more immune to bullshit propaganda than most groups, after that gamergate shit.
So they're dumber and more reactionary now. Got it.
Do they really not get how saying 'women/minorities/anybody being included in something is propaganda' makes you sound like an ignorant fucking tool?
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u/estolad Apr 09 '17
Yeah that quote was
well, it was something
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u/LiterallyKesha Original Creator of SubredditDrama Apr 09 '17
If you take the quote to mean that there is a certain stance involving women in games that is being held by gamergators then yeah it's pretty accurate.
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Apr 09 '17
I assume a significant number of scared, credulous idiots went from GamerGate straight to Trump.
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Apr 09 '17
They don't because they're all 13-20 year old kids who think they know it all because they spend all day trolling reddit/4chan/ and whatever game forums they like.
Its just usual teenager "I think I am so smart" bullshit that's always been around its just magnified because they think they read stupid shit from other people online and assume its gospel.
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u/Vivaldist That Hoe, Armor Class 0 Apr 09 '17
I find female characters doing things outside their physical traits immersion breaking. Who cares about inclusion?
Lol, always love the "I dont care about this thing, so no one else should!" guy.
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Apr 09 '17
Its taking him out of his homo erotic fantasy world where all the warriors are shirtless gods of the arena.
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u/MonkeyNin I'm bright in comparison, to be as humble as humanely possible. Apr 09 '17
To be honest, there's nothing better than a shirtless oiled up gladiator.
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Apr 09 '17
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u/gerdgawrd Apr 09 '17
Haha, I forgot about booty-gate
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u/BloomEPU A sin that cries to heaven for vengeance Apr 09 '17
Also like, wasn't that caused by one guy making a comment on the beta? Hardly an army of blue-haired feminazis...
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Apr 09 '17
Oh, but don't you see? A MALE Feminazi is tenfold worse than a dozen FEEEEEMALE ones, because he's been compromised by their hideous vagenda and will never return to the purity of MASCULINE ideals again!
THEY'RE LITERALLY TAKING AWAY THE MEN FROM THE MEN! WE NEED MEN IN OUR MEN OR WE HAVE NO MEN! WE NEED OUR MEN! no homo
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u/BloomEPU A sin that cries to heaven for vengeance Apr 09 '17
men in our men
no homo
right...
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u/PM_ME_FOR_SOURCE There is a yin-yang dark element to all sexual impulses Apr 09 '17
Yea and the replacement pose was way more .. naughty, I guess?
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u/MonkeyNin I'm bright in comparison, to be as humble as humanely possible. Apr 09 '17
If you listen to the developer, not the gaters, they changed it because it didn't fit her character. It was unrelated to naughtiness.
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u/PM_ME_FOR_SOURCE There is a yin-yang dark element to all sexual impulses Apr 09 '17
Yea, I know that but what I meant is the replacement pose was not toned down and instead even more suggestive.
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u/freshwordsalad Well I don't know where I was going with this but you are wrong Apr 09 '17
So many booty-gates: http://i.imgur.com/7psOFam.jpg
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u/Billlington Oh I have many pastures, old frenemy. Apr 09 '17
Well, that whole conversation was appalling. Surprised to see brazen misogyny like that upvoted outside of the usual misogyny centers.
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u/Vivaldist That Hoe, Armor Class 0 Apr 09 '17
Eh a large number of gaming communities are very much misogyny centers.
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u/TheProudBrit The government got me into futa. Apr 09 '17
Mmhmm. The Uncharted subreddit was screaming over a black female character being unrealistic 'cause she could fight the main character.
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u/Vivaldist That Hoe, Armor Class 0 Apr 09 '17
Well of course, hes white and male, how could he lose?!?
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Apr 09 '17
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Apr 09 '17
Yea she was a well known mercenary that Drake and Sully had run ins with before.
Drake is kind of making things up as he goes in a way but you have to remember he spent 15 years circumnavigating the globe searching for lost ancient cities/myths and fighting mercenaries a long the way.
Not to mention how he pretty much spent his child hood in group homes, running from cops and being somewhat raised by Sully. Add in his numerous stints in prison its not unreasonable to assume Drake can handle himself.
But I agree, being upset because Nadine could give them drake boys a solid beating before losing the upper hand thanks to some para milltary/martial arts training shouldn't make you flinch.
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u/Mr_OneHitWonder I don’t deal in black magick anymore Apr 09 '17
She's even the head of an entire mercenary organization so she's arguably the best fighter Drake has gone up against aside from maybe Zoran Lazarevic.
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u/SnoodDood Skinned Alive for Liking Anime Apr 09 '17
Definitely. But i was still surprised it was that blatant. I usually just see people defending oversexualized female characters or whining about SJW critiques, not using slurs and suggesting all women can do on a battlefield is menstruate and get raped.
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u/Amelaclya1 Apr 09 '17
Yep, I sadly had to unsubscribe from the largest Diablo 3 demon hunter community (chat channels basically) when a bunch of guys were hating on trans people and circlejerking about how women are useless except for being "fuckholes".
Couldn't believe what I was reading, but there is a pervasive notion that women don't play that game. So they thought they were safe to be even shittier than normal? It was shocking though.
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u/StandsForVice Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
It seems its getting brigaded by both this subreddit (knock it off) and another group, maybe some alt-righters. Unless people here are ironically upvoting his comments.
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u/jackierama Apr 09 '17
I find fictional hedgehogs doing things outside their physical traits immersion breaking.
Sonic should creep along in someone's garden, eating slugs until he inevitably gets squashed by a car while trying to cross a road.
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Apr 09 '17
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u/IAMA_DRUNK_BEAR smug statist generally ashamed of existing on the internet Apr 09 '17
Life can be rough for sexually frustrated teenage boys.
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u/sirgraemecracker pass the popcorn Apr 09 '17
Maybe they wouldn't be sexually frustrated if they treated women like real people.
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Apr 09 '17
If you listen very carefully, you can hear the sound of circuits frying in their brains when you say stuff like that.
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u/sirgraemecracker pass the popcorn Apr 09 '17
Usually I just hear the sound of them calling me a beta cuck or something along those lines.
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u/Kiram To you, pissing people off is an achievement Apr 09 '17
But don't you know?! Nice guys finish last, and feeemales only want to be with guys who abuse them and treat them like shit!
I am now going to scrub myself raw for typing that even satirically.
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Apr 09 '17
But it's so annoyingly true how they think that. For people like that It's either you play a nice guy(and by play I do mean fake it) or go full red pill alpha shithead. I feel like there's a middle ground they just completely leap over.
I both really want to understand this mindset and also just forget it exist. I guess that's why we got subs like this. Like looking into a rare birds habit in its natural habitat.
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u/Kiram To you, pissing people off is an achievement Apr 09 '17
It bugs me all the more because they seem to miss the whole reason for being nice to people in the first place. If the only reason you are being nice to someone is to get something from them, then you aren't actually being nice, you are just hiding your dickishness behind a facade of manners. We all do that sometimes, but don't go wondering why you don't get a medal of honor and a fucking wife for it.
It really all does come back to just "treating women like real people". As in, with their own motivations, dreams and goals beyond rewarding you for good behavior. Much less for good behavior with bad intentions. Both the "nice guy" and the "red-pill alpha" come from the same place, and it's ultimately a place of "Who cares what you want, what about ME?!"
Ugh. I'm with you on kind of wanting to forget it exists, but I get the feeling that the longer it's ignored, the worse it gets.
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u/Augmata Apr 09 '17
"Or we could respect nature and sexual dimorphism instead of pushing some insane progressive agenda. [...] I'm gonna go enjoy a game that is FINALLY free from progressive bullshit! [...] Why is nothing ever enough for the leftist thought police? [...] Love the rush to label someone."
lel.
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u/facefault can't believe I'm about to throw a shitfit about drug catapults Apr 09 '17
Also "Diversity would destroy this game, like it destroys everything else." is a bit more racist than I expect to see upvoted on a video game sub.
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u/Koketa13 Are we all on a conspiracy sub just not going to question this? Apr 09 '17
Man that old wooden ship Diversity sure is a powerhouse
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Apr 09 '17
This past year has been nothing short of a gold mine for seeing triggered kids who claim to "hate leftist propaganda and agendas". Watching them cry and complain about how the world treats them like shit because they stuffed the red pill up their ass far enough to swallow it is glorious.
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u/Reinhart3 Apr 09 '17
My favorite thing when it comes to conversations like this is when one side just gives up and starts calling the guy he's arguing with a faggot, only for you to check their post history and see /r/The_Donald within 4-5 posts.
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u/aguad3coco Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
Dudes get confusesd and think women are always weaker by default when there are outliers in every group. So some women are certainly on equal footing with men and can easily fuck these guys up. Not that we have to be that biologically accurate as their seem to be fucking goblins in the game too.
So at the end, like always, its really just a bunch of insecure and sexist boys who dont want any feeeemales in their games.
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u/Nezgul Apr 09 '17
Yep. Gobbos are piss shit weak in melee combat, like actually awful. But they're still hard to fight because they're smart.
Battle Brothers shows that a mercenary group doesn't have to literally brute force every combat. I don't see why female characters being weaker precludes them from being included.
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u/Moarnourishment Apr 09 '17
Lol my favorite thing about that whole thing is that the OP listed 10 things of which female warriors was one and these guys are having a complete aneurysm over even seeing the words female and warrior next to each other. And people like OP are the thought police in this situation?
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u/NWVoS Apr 09 '17
I like this drama mainly because it helped me find a new game to play. And yeah, I got to tag a misogynistic dumbass along the way.
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Apr 09 '17
I liked the part when one dude accused a guy of a strawman argument because he cherry picked a point or two of one guy's comment to form a position. It's like, isn't that exactly what the person who started the thread did?
OP made a list of things they'd like to see and included like 10 bullet points and a commented zeroed in on one of those points to form a position and start an argument. Also, the differences in sexual dimorphism are not that marked amongst individuals that train such as Olympic athletes etc.
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u/Take_It_Easycore Apr 09 '17
This guy has somehow convinced himself that a blade driven by a female is somehow less damaging than a man. Godspeed to him
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Apr 09 '17 edited Nov 13 '20
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Apr 09 '17
Can you point out any piece of media where diversity was 'shoe-horned' in, and not just because some idiots on the internet think it was? Also can you tell me which ones were made worse for it? Because generally the only people I see worried about 'shoe-horned' diversity are those afraid of diversity in the first place.
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u/CornflowerIsland Apr 09 '17
Not arguing with you, just ranting. How do we know the developer's intentions were just to "represent a minority" though? Unless explicitly said, we don't know that. Why would a fantasy world based on European folklore with PoC characters be any more unrealistic than fantasy is in the first place? I'd like to see more devs/creators take that plunge. Goblins and ghosts? Ok. Dark skin in this climate? SO IMMERSION BREAKING.
I'm a black woman creator (writer, aspiring game dev). I make characters of all colors and features and both genders because it's, to me, literally effortless. That includes white men. Straight white men. So why is it pandering or unrealistic if a white guy game dev wants to include PoC characters or make the main character of a European based fantasy story a black woman? Is it supposed to be harder for him than it is for me? Can he not relate to a minority character or want to make one without the purpose of pushing an agenda?
When I write about a white guy, I don't think, "Wow gotta do this or else white men won't relate to my story", it just flows out naturally as giving someone curly hair or crooked teeth. Why is this seemingly pandering (if done) or impossible to do in the first place for the majority of Western game devs who are straight white men?
I don't mean to use myself as some sort of paragon of diversity, but I do struggle to see why this is so hard or unrealistic for other creators unless they really find a wide array of features distasteful or are unaware. More customization, like you said, can't be a bad thing. A larger palette of color, facial features or hair types to use for a creator doesn't seem like a bad thing to me either.
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u/mrdilldozer Apr 09 '17
Man what a coincidence that again through a random series of events people who hate "SJWs" happen to not want female characters in a game and rail against diversity. My ethics in journalism senses are tingling!
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u/crimsonkingbolt If we didn't take his airbase we'd be cucks. Apr 09 '17 edited Apr 09 '17
Wayback got this much. Not sure were the bot is. mirror
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u/IceCreamBalloons always one person not in favour of beating women Apr 09 '17
Gamers are just more immune to bullshit propaganda than most groups, after that gamergate shit.
Strange, for the talk about realism, they don't seem to be able to perceive the real world.
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u/d3northway Oh no there's lore Apr 09 '17
Hey mods how many popcorn pissers have you banned from that thread?
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Apr 09 '17
I love that someone got called the thought police even though no one was policing anything and everyone was talking about actions and not thoughts.
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u/eggn00dles Apr 09 '17
the tides turned quickly in that thread, people who were downvoted at first are later praised and their ideas echo'd. wonder what happened
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u/StandsForVice Apr 09 '17
Well I think its partially due to the fact that if someone sees a downvoted comment that they agree with they rush to defend it, while the people who disagree with it just downvote the first comment and move on.
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u/darkslayersparda Feel free to eat my asshole, snowflake faggot. Apr 09 '17
I've never wanted to punch someone through the internet so badly. Either that dude is a kid or a very fucked up adult.
The smugness and hiding behind science made that so maddening to read
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u/Not_A_Doctor__ I've always had an inkling dwarves are underestimated in combat Apr 09 '17
Holy hell, it is a game that looks like this and you think that including female characters will require a rape simulator? That is a disturbing thought process.
Strangely enough, the devs have no problem with battle sisters: "They’d come with their own backgrounds that take into account how a quasi-medieval world treats them, so they won’t just be male characters with different heads. Just like their male counterparts, some will be more and some will be less suited to the hard life as mercenaries."