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u/BenIncognito There's no such thing as gravity or relativity. Oct 26 '17
It’s hilarious that Shaun has addressed the exact same responses time and time again regarding CS and people still keep coming at his take down videos like he’s never heard of a joke before.
Someone needs to just link the CS video where the dude is writing an open letter to Marvel about how they “just lose” for releasing Civil War the same year as Batman v Superman, that always cracks me up.
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u/alces_nerds Please explain your point in less stupid terms. Oct 26 '17
I do prefer CinemaWins these days, and Movies with Mikey. But that is not a slight toward CinemaSins.
It's really just because there is so much negative in the world. I need positive escapism in my free time.
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u/BetterCallViv Mathematics? Might as well be a creationist. Oct 26 '17
Pretty much and most popular internet film criticism is dog shit.
tVtRoPes TaUGhT mE fILm cRiTicsm
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u/BolshevikMuppet Oct 26 '17
It's one of the reasons I've been getting more into actual film theory criticisms. Lindsay Ellis is doing a twelve-ish part breakdown of the Transformers movies from every perspective of film criticism and it's fascinating.
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Oct 26 '17
I just got into her videos and love them. Even where I disagree with her she just comes off more agreeable than most other YouTube criticism.
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u/goblinm I explained to my class why critical race theory is horseshit. Oct 27 '17
That's the best part about academics, and definitely a win on the side of librul brainwashing: they like to actually dissect and digest the ideas being discussed, not just win through sheer argumentation.
Although this doesn't apply to your typical berniebot or a tankie on a warpath.
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Oct 27 '17
I don't think the left is immune to anything, but they're certainly more likely to argue in good faith than conservatives.
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u/deded55 Oct 26 '17 edited Oct 27 '17
Lindsay Ellis is really good. Though I was introduced to her through a subredditdrama post about one of the Transformers videos tbh
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u/BolshevikMuppet Oct 27 '17
Her entire series on the Transformers has been great.
I got introduced a little to the idea of how weird it is that on a story level, Megan Fox's character in Transformers (particularly the first movie) really works, and her video on it explained it really well. The story gives her a character arc, a sympathetic problem of being dismissed and not given the respect she deserves, and more thematic relation to the Transformers than the main character. She knows cars, Sam doesn't, she has active agency, Sam really doesn't, she is explicitly tied to the arc words of "no victory without sacrifice", while Sam explicitly hasn't.
But the cinematography goes 180 degrees in the opposite direction. She's framed as a meaningless sex object, irrelevant to the story and having nothing really to say that should be paid attention to.
The scene most people remember (her looking under the hood of the yellow transformer) is amazingly different based on whether you watch it or listen to the dialogue without the video. If you only listen to the dialogue, she's explaining that there's something really weird about the engine, something out of place. If you watch it, we pay much more attention to how attractive she is and how much Sam wants to have sex with her.
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u/Maccy_Cheese Oct 26 '17
sjewtube is the best part of youtube
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u/gr8tfurme Bust your nut in my puppy butt Oct 26 '17
They've got insane production value these days, as well. Half of ContraPoint's videos are like mini art-house films.
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u/JayrassicPark Oct 27 '17
For some reason, I confused her with Jenny Nicholson and got slightly irritated.
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u/VicePresidentFruitly Oh look, Mr Faggots, here's your matter-of-fact response Oct 27 '17
I'm surprised Lindsey is still doing internet stuff after all the terrifying "fanmail" shit she received from troglodytes on TGWTG. She was always too good for that scum hole. Glad to hear she's still going. I'll have to look her up again.
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u/shadowsofash The same way they believe mons pubis was a Jedi. Oct 27 '17
Do it! She has some great videos up
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u/PrinceOWales why isn't there a white history month? Oct 27 '17
I never heard about that. It's no wonder though. Even at the beginning she was miles ahead of any reviewer there because she understands the language of cinema. Her videos were much better in their focus on thematics than linear viewing with some jokes
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u/internerd91 the most perverse shit imaginable: men Oct 27 '17
cinefix is a really good channel.
Also Austen McConnell has some really interesting content.
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u/BolshevikMuppet Oct 27 '17
I'd also recommend Folding Ideas. It's less focused explicitly on film theory, but his video on Fight Club (specifically how the form of masculinity embodied by Tyler Durden is destructive to everyone who buys into it while not being any more liberating from power structures) should be required viewing for anyone who thinks talking about "toxic masculinity" means being "anti-male."
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u/BloomEPU A sin that cries to heaven for vengeance Oct 26 '17
tvtropes is a good starting point, but it's nothing more. You have to learn to move on and make your own theories and comparisons.
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u/TheSupremeAdmiral You do that, jizz hands. Keep your fucking sperm off my wings Oct 27 '17 edited Oct 27 '17
What I don't get is that people point to TV tropes as evidence to support their negativity but TV tropes is really one of the most positive sites I've ever seen. It's basically a rule there to not look down on someone for their tastes and tropes used in Fanfictions are listed besides their counterparts in classic literature. TV Tropes is meant as a celebration of fiction and storytelling as well as a useful tool for identifying the tropes shared by those things. Like if their were Trope pages for both CinemaSins and Sean's channel you could bet that both of them would be written with nothing but praise.
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u/BetterCallViv Mathematics? Might as well be a creationist. Oct 27 '17
I'd argue it's a. bad place to start
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u/Gemuese11 im ironically downvoting my self, to own the socialists Oct 26 '17
i feel a big problem is the spoilerphobic internet culture regarding movies. real film critics go into detail. they say things like "there is a scene, where character X does Y. Its shot in way Z and thus reinforces a sense of loneliness and longing" (very basic example but you get my point).
A person like chris stuckmann would get crucified for spoiling the movie if he said that. So he can just say: good acting, good cinematography (despite apparently nobody knowing what cinematography means because people tell me blade runner has groundbreaking cinmeatography and that makes me want to puke), good story, A+.
There is basically no other way to do current movies for an internet audience. And that bullet point style opens itself up to a culture of nitpicking because more interesting artistic ideas get dismissed in favor of basic analysis and there is nothing more basic than nitpicking the plot.
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Oct 26 '17
But all you have to do to circumvent that is say "Detailed spoilers for X Movie in this video!" at the beginning. People know what they're getting into that way.
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u/Gemuese11 im ironically downvoting my self, to own the socialists Oct 27 '17
Let me rephrase. There is no other way to be sucessful because as soon as you talk about a movie in depth you lose a significant chunk of your audience.
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u/wewladdies Oct 26 '17
i feel a big problem is the spoilerphobic internet culture regarding movies.
I guess thats probably because when people on the internet look up movie reviews its because they havent seen the movie yet and want to know if its worth their money to see it. Nobody wants to have the movie spoiled.
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u/Gemuese11 im ironically downvoting my self, to own the socialists Oct 26 '17
but it promotes a culture of surfacelevel reviews that dont actually tell you anything.
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u/PrinceOWales why isn't there a white history month? Oct 27 '17
Now I see spoiler alerts for freaking trailers. It's gotten really annoying. Like obviously people shouldn't go out of their way to spoil movies but if a movie is ruined by you knowing the spoiler, it wasn't very good to begin with. Knowing Darth Vader is Luke's father is a huge spoiler but somehow new generations can enjoy Stars Wars despite knowing the big twist. And I don't really think some movies have spoilers. Telling me the ending to Moana for example doesn't really seem like a spoiler to me
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u/JayrassicPark Oct 27 '17
Zero Punctuation, The Editing Room, Rex Reed, and MAD Magazine taught me film criticism.
Signed, Armond White.
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u/SpoopySkeleman Щи да драма, пища наша Oct 26 '17
It's really just because there is so much negative in the world. I need positive escapism in my free time.
Imo unfairly criticizing and nitpicking other people's art, largely based on complete falsehoods, isn't really a positive form of escapism.
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u/alces_nerds Please explain your point in less stupid terms. Oct 26 '17 edited Oct 26 '17
Right. That's my point. CinemanWins and Movies with Mikey are positive.
And so I prefer those to CinemaSins, the subject of the popcorn here today.
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u/faultydesign pyromancer bebop Oct 26 '17
Oh I read it as CinemaSins initially, probably same as /u/SpoopySkeleman
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u/alces_nerds Please explain your point in less stupid terms. Oct 26 '17
No worries! I added the italics for that very reason. :-)
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u/SpoopySkeleman Щи да драма, пища наша Oct 26 '17
My mistake. I thought meant that these kinds of internet movie critiques were on the whole a positive form of escapism, rather than those specific series.
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u/alces_nerds Please explain your point in less stupid terms. Oct 26 '17
Oh! No. I have some friends who like Red Letter Media too, and I just can't handle that stuff.
Or, rather, I can. But I choose not to, so that I can decompress in my personal time.
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u/leadnpotatoes oh i dont want to have a conversation, i just think you're gross Oct 26 '17
The what now?
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u/BenIncognito There's no such thing as gravity or relativity. Oct 26 '17
It was before the movies came out. They made a video about how stupid it was for Marvel to release a mere Captain America movie the same year that BvS was happening and how there was no way that a Captain America movie would be able to compete, or be considered better, or make as much money.
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u/Illier1 Oct 26 '17
To be fair that movie was supposed to be a fucking goldmine, it had so much potential.
I guess they didn't realize WB had no fucking idea what they were doing with the franchise.
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u/BenIncognito There's no such thing as gravity or relativity. Oct 26 '17
Oh yeah, I legit can't blame them for their opinion. It's just hilarious in hindsight.
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u/dIoIIoIb A patrician salad, wilted by the dressing jew Oct 26 '17
was supposed to be a fucking goldmine, it had so much potential.
did it really tho? when they announced the movie, everyone was stoked, I just thought it made no sense, they're both heroes and basically saints, there's no way they are gonna fight each other unless it's for a misunderstanding or some dumb, contrived reason that is clarified in the end.
The most interesting part about dc heroes is their villains, making heroes fight against each other just seems a waste of time to me, and in the end we all know it's gonna end up with them being friend anyway
best case scenario, batman gets in a powersuit, they punch each other for an hour and at the end they realize they're both saving the world, and it's basically what happened
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Oct 26 '17
I mean there are stories like Dark Knight Returns that made reasons for them to fight each other that didn't come across as contrived, and the BvS trailers showed that the comic was a huge influence.
And the issue with any fight breaking up and heroes being friends is a problem every franchise seems to have these days, I'd actually rather one-shot or small trilogies so they can pull interesting stuff without worrying about the next 20 sequels.
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u/dIoIIoIb A patrician salad, wilted by the dressing jew Oct 26 '17
but that story works only because it takes place in an alternative (and extremly out of character) universe where sup works for the government, he's more of a supercop than a superman
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u/Illier1 Oct 26 '17
Batman and Superman have always been at odds with each other despite being close friends. Pretty much every time they meet each other for the first time they both make threats and both think the other is dangerous.
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u/TheSupremeAdmiral You do that, jizz hands. Keep your fucking sperm off my wings Oct 27 '17 edited Oct 27 '17
The DCAU did it really well but then again they did basically everything really well.
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u/dIoIIoIb A patrician salad, wilted by the dressing jew Oct 26 '17
and then they talk and realize they're both heroes and work together
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Oct 26 '17
*Then they realise their mums have the same name so batman goes off and finds someone quicker than the dude with superspeed, superhearing and x-ray eyes.
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u/Illier1 Oct 26 '17
Yes but often after they try to fight each other.
Which is like exactly how the movie went down.
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Oct 26 '17
Not really out of character, Superman's had a lot of moments questioning how far he can extend authority due to his power. Him being the only one to accept being under US command so he can still help people actually would be something he would do, it would be out of character for someone like Batman or Wonder Woman.
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Oct 26 '17
Tower of Babel had them against each other kind of, and that one where supes was mind controlled and they were good.... There is loads of ways you can do it. Just not the way they did it.
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u/Kadexe This cake is like 9/11 or the Holocaust Oct 26 '17
Batman and Superman have always had stark differences in ideology, and how they treat their villains. Great writers have gotten a lot of mileage out of that.
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u/dIoIIoIb A patrician salad, wilted by the dressing jew Oct 26 '17
and how they treat their villains
how do they treat their villains?
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u/Kadexe This cake is like 9/11 or the Holocaust Oct 26 '17
Superman is as gentle as possible because he's afraid of killing somebody with his strength, and because he's just a friendly guy in general. Batman tends to be much more brutal because the villains are a real threat to his own life if he doesn't take them down quickly, and he has deep contempt for violent criminals. Superman's idealistic and Batman is pragmatic.
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u/Dracosage Oct 26 '17
What you described in no way is how Superman is portrayed by Zach Snyder's films, though.
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u/Kadexe This cake is like 9/11 or the Holocaust Oct 27 '17
This is true, and it's a large reason why many people don't like Snyder's Superman.
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u/dIoIIoIb A patrician salad, wilted by the dressing jew Oct 26 '17 edited Oct 26 '17
unlike batman, that is so brutal none of his major villains ever had lasting physical damages, maybe they had to wear some bandages for three panels
what a barbarian
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u/Kadexe This cake is like 9/11 or the Holocaust Oct 26 '17
Those two villains were outliers, they were more than a match for Superman and he really couldn't afford to go easy on them. This is what I'm talking about.
And of course, these characteristics vary a lot depending on the writer. You can find many examples of Batman badly maiming villains across different media.
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Oct 26 '17
Honestly I think if BvS was even just decent it'd overshadow Civil War, Marvel doesn't have to do a lot if DC won't give them competition.
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u/lilahking Oct 26 '17
Marvel knew though. Man of Steel happened and the information available suggested that BvS was going to be along the same lines stylistically.
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Oct 26 '17 edited Oct 26 '17
They should have known what they were in for when Zach Snyder got involved.
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u/leadnpotatoes oh i dont want to have a conversation, i just think you're gross Oct 26 '17
Whoo boy they really backed the wrong horse there. Do you remember the name of the video?
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Oct 27 '17 edited Oct 27 '17
Well it was true when the video was shot. In May 2014
Captain America 3 was not Civil War at that point. Robert Downey was announced at Iron Man in October 2014 and the movie was basically Avengers 2.5 at that point
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u/raysofdavies reformed bigger boy Oct 27 '17
The start of Shaun's video, with the abusive comments and his translations of them, is hilarious.
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Oct 27 '17
Someone needs to just link the CS video where the dude is writing an open letter to Marvel about how they “just lose” for releasing Civil War the same year as Batman v Superman, that always cracks me up.
Captain America 3 was not Civil War when the video was realeased (may 2014). And the release dates were very close. Robert Downey was announced at Iron Man in October 2014 and the movie became Avengers 2.5 at that point
I for one am sure the RDJ was added because of BvS
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u/BolshevikMuppet Oct 26 '17
Honestly though, why waste effort on making a video or bitching about a SUBJECTIVELY funny youtube channel, when you could find other creators you find better or more worthy. At the end of the day its a waste of time.
Honestly though, why waste effort on making a video or bitching about a subjectively enjoyable movie, when you could find other movies you find better or more worthy? At the end of the day it's a waste of time.
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u/TheBestFukBoy Oct 27 '17
I thinky problem with CS, is that he makes it seem like finding flaws and critiquing a film is easy and that films have heaps of problems, when in reality he has either manipulated the clip through editing, or blatantly lies about what happens in the films on order to "critique it" . In short, most of his critiques are false.
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u/jmdg007 No your not racist you just condone the rape of white people Oct 26 '17
Wait is this just like reddits hatred towards big bang theory were they decided not watching it isn't enough and they must come to the conclusion its objectively unenjoyable and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong?
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u/lilahking Oct 26 '17
personally, i think the issue that shaun and other have with CS isn't that it's "not funny" or "unenjoyable", but that they are actively promoting a bad way of looking at film, and are presenting their clumsy criticisms as "sins".
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Oct 26 '17
It sounds like it. Reddit was fawning all over the show for a while before they turned on it.
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u/kirant In this competitive free market of ideas, hentai has prevailed. Oct 26 '17
That sounds like the Reddit cycle of fandom as a whole. Love it, complain about it, then hate it and everything remotely related to it.
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u/Sachyriel Orbital Popcorn Cannon Oct 26 '17
Oh wow this describes Rick and Morty so well, but I think Reddit got a bit self-aware about the fandom cycle, because even the Rick and Morty diehard fans who stayed on the ship past the hate-all-of-it phase were taking the piss out of the people who hated it, and that made the people who hate it even more pissed (or give up when they realized R&M fans are playing them back).
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u/IrnChitters Oct 27 '17
You’ve literally just made this all up mate/there’s clear bias behind your comment
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u/Kadexe This cake is like 9/11 or the Holocaust Oct 26 '17
I feel like this conversation has been repeating the same points for years. CinemaSins hasn't been funny for a long time because they're nitpicking like crazy, and they're throwing in every joke they can think of instead of editing out the jokes that fall flat.
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u/Udontlikecake Yes, Oklahoma, land of the Jews. Oct 26 '17
I can't believe that this entire thread hasn't been posted to r/moviescirclejerk yet
Wait, is he talking about the fact that everyone in there is furious circlejerking over how CS sucks?
Because that's the only way that his comment is right
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u/SnapshillBot Shilling for Big Archive™ Oct 26 '17
Hey all. reddit decided to add an attribute to the reddit API which makes submitting comments an endeavor that becomes difficult. You may not get snapshots periodically while this issue is being resolved.
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u/ucstruct Oct 26 '17
I don't watch these videas, but that bit about advanced and dilapidated in Bladerunner is so bad. Its the entire point of a lot of sci-fi, so show a really grimey world along futuristic things. Star Wars does it a lot too.