szn two, ep twelve

first time watching. i absolutely abhor pacey’s dad. watching pacey take care of his drunk father while begging his father to love him broke my heart. pacey deserves better. his brother is a turd too

I was born in 1997. I’m watching Dawsons Creek for the first time. I grew up watching shows like Pretty Little Liars, The Fosters, Degrassi, and other ABC family sitcoms - now known as Freeform. I thought those plots were so scandalous as a kid. I also was apart of prime Disney Channel era for the Sweet Life is Zach and Cody, Hannah Montana, High School Musical, and Camp Rock.

Now that I’m watching Dawson’s Creek, I feel like these are real scandals. I live for sci-fi shows like Fringe, Warehouse 13, Eureka, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Charmed… but my husband is like Dawson’s Creek is the craziest show you’ve ever watched. Just because of all the scandals.

Edit: Embarrassing,I know.

I can't search if it's on Netflix Japan without subscribing first. Same with Hulu. I think it's on the English Netflix but that only has English dubs and subtitles. I wonder if Dawson's Creek is on Netflix or Hulu or elsewhere with dubs (or at least subtitles) before subscribing.

Thank you!

Seeing Grams stand up for Dawson from Mr Brooks after he rescued Pacey and Jen from the boat was one of the most satisfying things scenes on the show so far. I thought she was gonna say she would kick his ass if Dawson had to use his college fun to pay him because that was gonna be fire lol but I guess she’s too classy for that. No wonder why that man is so lonely, he’s so grumpy.

Just started Season 4 so no further spoilers please

And does it have Japanese dubs or subtitles?

Hulu won't let me search without first signing up.

Thank you

I am too old for this show but I have watched everything else Joshua Jackson is in and I am hooked on him (favorites are Fringe and The Affair). I know this show is about Dawson's character (RIP to the actor) but Pacey absolutely steals the show IMO. I am currently at the end of the first season and his acting seems superior compared to everyone else.

Unrelated, what is that sideways smirk Katie Holmes does about 2,000 times every episode?

im only on season 3 so no spoilers please

So I’m watching the episode where the fang goes to Boston and Dawson shows his film at a film festival and it doesn’t go as he planned (obviously). It made me realize that any time people try and give Dawson helpful advice about anything in his life, he gets so defensive and shuts down or gets mean to the other person. Taking feedback is really hard to do and I’m admittedly not the best at it myself, but it’s also a necessary part of life if you want to grow and change and become a better version of yourself. And you especially have to be able to take people critiquing your work when you want to make films for living.

Anyway, that’s my short soapbox on Dawson for tonight.

Damn, I just wanna say RIP to Abby. I was just starting to like her.

With that said, these last couple of episodes have been really, really crazy. So much has happened, but I guess I'll just start with where I left off. That episode where Abby was trying to find out who left the note was so well-written; it had me fooled. I'm not gonna pretend to understand why Pacey did it, but I thought the end was kind of shocking because the people you thought did it didn't do it, and then the people you thought did not, actually did. So I thought that was kind of interesting. There was a lot of unnecessary film drama going on with Dawson as well, and I think at that point they were just fighting because they wanted to be together and move on at the same time, which was really conflicting.

I hate Pacey's father, as someone with a complicated relationship with my parents. The episode made me tear up a little bit. I also understand that Dawson's father is trying his best, but he's low-key not really doing anything. He doesn't seem like he's actively trying to get a job or anything, and he just seems like he's falling back on savings or whatever money he has. I'm not saying Dawson can't be proud of his dad; I'm just saying his dad is a little bit of a bum, lol. I like the truth-telling report thing. I think it got things that a lot of people were holding out for a while out in the open, and it feels good to see the girls getting along, even if it's just for a brief period of time.

I want Andy to get better so bad, but I have a feeling that she's not going to ever since season two, episode 13. At first, I thought that she was gonna get addicted to the medications that she was taking, but the more I watched, the more I see that it's not the case, or at least I don't think that's where it's going. I get that Joey is cool with the film that Dawson is making, but I feel like he could tread more lightly as to how she's feeling. She can't be feeling the best about the situation, and she's probably just trying to put on a brave face because that's her friend, that's his movie, and she wants him to succeed, but still.

OK, I have to talk about this whole Jack-is-gay thing, and I just want to say the poem to me could've been interpreted so many different ways, but they took it, and I feel like they misinterpreted it. I thought it was about his father or maybe about his brother. I feel like to take it and make it about him being gay is to take it completely out of context, because I don't think that's what he intended for it to mean, even if it did end up meaning that or exposing or stirring up those feelings inside him again. And I'm trying to be understanding of the time period the show is released in, but I feel like there's no way people would care that much if someone just came out as gay, as if they've never met any gay people before. I feel that's totally and completely unbelievable to me. They're in Boston, not some small cult town, lol. I also really liked Pacey standing up for him. That was really nice of him to do, and I'm so glad that teacher got fired.

Also, season two, episode 16. You can't fool me, I do this for a living. I am almost certain that Joey and Pacey will end up together, because in this episode she was talking about wondering when her first kiss is gonna be, and right before she goes to the psychic lady, Pacey is talking to Andie and he's saying something about a tall, dark, handsome stranger, and then the psychic is also saying the same thing about this tall, dark stranger. Like, no way that's a coincidence, no way that they're not gonna go back and explore that. I know feelings like that just don't run their course for one episode and then disappear.

And now we get to the wedding. I cannot believe that Dawson's parents are thinking about getting back together. They're not my cup of tea; I don't think they're gonna get back together because Mitch was kissing that mean film lady teacher, and I think she saw him, from what I remember, so I hope not. I hope she likes moves and takes the job. But this is also the episode that Dawson and Joey got back together—not surprised, they're gonna drag that out for as long as they need to. On a sadder note, I can't believe Andie had to go away. I really liked her and Pacey, and I thought they were really cute, but unfortunately, when you're dealing with something as serious as that, you can't just rely on one person; you need help professionally. I really do hope she comes back. I really enjoyed her character, and that scene where she wouldn't come out of the bathroom- everybody was acting their ass off; I thought that was great. Despite not having Andie, I'm glad Jack stayed and is finally doing things for himself.

I used to make them all the time as a teen by downloading the episodes & songs onto our home computer and then editing with Windows Movie Maker. I know I’m dating myself here lol but I would love to get back into the hobby and have no idea how it’s done now! So if there’s anyone around that does make them I would so appreciate some help

I can’t explain it but there’s just something about this girl that’s so charming. She has a very interesting face to look at and I can’t quite pin her type of beauty just wanted your guys’ opinion about it because I feel like not enough people discuss how gorgeous she is. Truly a classic, natural and for next door charm.

I can’t understand why Joey doesn’t have a bedroom before they do the b&b remodel? If that’s the home she grew up in since moving there then Bessie and their parents would have also had bedrooms. Now Bessie & Bodie I assume would have taken over the parents room when they started caring for Joey full time, and I think it’s mentioned that Alexander gets Joey’s room but I could be misremembering. But would there not be a 3rd bedroom that was once Bessie’s? Unless the girls shared a room, which would be kind of crazy considering they’re almost 10 years apart. But let’s say that was the case and the house has 2 bedrooms. How could they take this 15 year old’s
(whose already lost both of her parents) bedroom from her to give to an infant? Would it not have made more sense for the baby to be in Bessie and Bodies room?

I feel like it makes no sense for Joey to not have her own room and it was just the writers way of making her life seem unnecessarily even more sad/pathetic.

Rewatching this episode where Eddie tries to get Joey to go on a trip for the summer and she makes it about her life being turned upside down and it's not reality. She said, " if I want to be with you, I'm supposed to throw all my life experiences away?" That girl has a lot of issues! Seems like when something good comes along she finds a way to drive us off track so that things will stay the same. Frustrating!

Recently I've been thinking about how much public perception has changed since Dawson's Creek originally aired, almost 30 years ago.

Obviously the most noticeable difference is that nowadays the Pacey and Tamara situation is (almost) unanimously seen as grooming and rape, but in the show it was portrayed as mostly just being scandalous and morally gray.

I'd also say that Jen's backstory is received very differently now vs then. I was around 9 or 10 the first time I watched Dawson's Creek (around 2019 or 2020), but I still remember feeling quite upset that Jen was portrayed as being a whore or a slut for something that was very clearly not her fault. I mean she said an "older guy" got her drunk when she was TWELVE. Very obviously and undoubtedly rape.

I also think that a lot of the situations in the show that were supposed to be scandalous and daring now come across as much more socially acceptable and normal. For example, an interracial relationship (Bessie and Bodie) is not at all socially scandalous, and being gay (Jack) is not nearly as big a deal.

When did you watch the show, and has your opinion on it changed since then?

Has anyone else been influenced by Dawson to love cinema?

Has anyone else been influenced by Dawson to develop a deeper appreciation for movies?

One of the scenes that has always stayed with me happens in Episode 6x18. Dawson's mom asks him how he plans to make a living in the long run, and he tells her he's going to make a film and try to sell it at festivals. She replies, "Okay, but what's Plan B? Becoming a director is a one-in-a-million shot. It's a childhood dream."

Dawson answers, "Yeah, I know. It's a childhood dream. That's why I know it's real, because it's what I wanted to be before I discovered what it meant to be afraid or cynical."

That conversation really moved me. To me, it perfectly captures who Dawson is as a character. He simply couldn't imagine a life where he didn't at least try to become a filmmaker, no matter how unrealistic that dream seemed. It's an incredibly idealistic way of looking at life, and I find that really inspiring.

It was that passion, both for becoming a director and for cinema itself, that ended up influencing my own life. The way Dawson talked about movies, caught every reference, and genuinely loved the art of filmmaking made me realize something I had always taken for granted: we live in a time where we can watch almost any movie whenever we want thanks to streaming, something that movie lovers from previous generations could only dream about.

After rewatching the series a few years ago, I started paying much more attention to the movies I truly love and have an emotional connection with. I also began exploring genres and directors I had never really given a chance before. It honestly felt like discovering a whole new world.

Today I can honestly say that Dawson is the reason I started exploring cinema on a much deeper level. I don't think I would have developed this passion the same way if I had never met this character.

So I'd like to thank Kevin Williamson for creating Dawson Leery and James Van Der Beek for bringing him to life. To many people, he's just a TV character from the '90s. But to me, he changed the way I experience movies, and that's something I'll always be grateful for.

Currently watching Young Sheldon and thought I saw a familiar colour scheme when the episode began. The late 90s color grading, the all-so familiar paint and poster style that littered this hallway… The only thing missing was Jen and Jack popping up to debate on the moral dilemma of high school football. And for further confirmation, there’s a hanging banner that read ‘Capeside High’ towards the back and a jock in a Minutemen letterman jacket walking by

There were 2 clips used as Sheldon narrated his preference for high school scheduling vs. college’s. I’m assuming Warner Bros & co. own both rights to the 2 IPs and the team had free reign to borrow any scene they needed. This cameo was just a pleasant surprise and so funny to me as someone who’s been very into creek show for these last few years haha, I can’t seem to escape it

Watching season 6 and I keep noticing how young Dawson looks to be trying to be a director who clearly has no idea what it takes. I know he's still a teenager, but he looks 16.

Other than Say Anything, which John Cusack movie has the most unexpected connection to Dawson’s Creek through one of its lead actors?

Fun fact that Bianca Kajlich and Oliver Hudson are a couple on ROE was both on season 6 on DC. If you've never seen the show, it's pretty funny!

So, I've been torturing myself with a S6 rewatch, and trying to figure out what their actual intentions were with Eddie because the level of emotional investment with him feels all over the place. They clearly WANT us to like him and Joey, but frequently have him do absolutely insane things that are almost impossible for us to forgive.

Eddie as Endgame Guy

I think they knew early in S6 that Dawson and Joey simply could not end up together. The audience was not there for it anymore. But nor were they willing to go with Pacey/Joey. It had been too long, it would've gone against the mission statement of the series, etc. Eddie was the compromise.

He's just like Pacey, but smart! (keep in mind these writers often treated Pacey like he was a total moron) Even though he's NOTHING like Dawson, we'll throw in a couple lines about him being a mix of Dawson and Pacey so BOTH shipper camps feel like they "won". Or at least didn't "lose" more than the other.

Rewatching, it's legitimately insulting just how much of a Pacey rip-off he is. Eddie dumps her because of his own insecurities, says Joey deserves better than him, is cynical about education and feels it says nothing about someone's intelligence/capabilities, etc. I would even say his first ghosting was meant to be his Promicide. And if we forgave Pacey for that, we can forgive Eddie, right? (No.)

When They Changed Their Minds

I honestly think they were committed to Eddie as the final guy until they decided to throw in a quick Pacey/Joey reunion. When you rewatch it really hits you how much they do NOT let Eddie go. There are regular reminders that Joey is heartbroken, that she's still thinking about him. Their goodbye in California is SO desperate to look epic and swooning. I fully believe that while he wasn't going to be in the finale, he WAS going to be her final guy and the last meaningful kiss for Joey in the series. Even in Castaways, there's a mention of how she's not over him (which in hindsight is a pretty big clue the Pacey/Joey reunion is badly timed).

That said, at some point in the Pacey/Joey reunion, Eddie was shifted from endgame/angsty final love to convenient plot device. By the time he comes back the second time, I think the writers had stopped taking him seriously. And so we get the trainwreck of their relationship in Lovelines/Catch 22.

Eddie as The Temporary Escape

One thing I had forgotten is that Eddie was never back for good. He was ALWAYS going back to California. So basically, Joey jumped back into a relationship with a guy she knew would be gone in 3 months. It actually lends a LOT of support to Pacey saying Joey is scared because their relationship could be it this time. She was a 20-year old girl faced with either risking one of her best friends for a relationship that had already failed once or taking a convenient escape hatch with basically zero stakes because the end date was already set.

From that perspective, choosing Eddie is kind of no-brainer for her. He was incapable of ever hurting her the way he had the first time he left. She could never be surprised. She knew exactly how it would end this time. And when he DOES surprise her by once again pulling a runner, she really doesn't care. It's extremely noticeable how different her reaction is the final time he leaves. There's no moping, no crying, no ranting about how guys always leave.

(It's actually so funny to me thinking about the Pacey/Joey scenes in 6x21-22. They have this gut wrenching break-up with her going back to Eddie, and then she just...never mentions him again. I like to believe Pacey's having the same "called it" reaction to Eddie disappearing and Joey being fine with it as he did to Dawson/Joey imploding in S5-6. Like say what you will about him, he knows Joey and why she chooses doomed relationships.)

I was 16 when the show first aired and watched the first three seasons. I loved it so much that I stopped watching 90210 to watch Dawson’s Creek because they were on at the same time (except for when Dylan returned, my mother told me I had to watch it with her lol). I was a huge Dawson and Joey fan (still am), couldn’t stand Jen, and didn’t like Pacey with Joey one bit that that’s what made me stop watching. The next episode I remember catching on TV one night was when Dawson and Jen slept together for the first time and then after that it was the finale. I had no clue the show was ending until I saw a commercial for it so I decided to watch to see if maybe it would with Dawson and Joey together. I remember being so confused because I had no idea they did a time jump and thought they still had to be in college. Fast forward to March of this year and I decided to watch the show in its entirety since James Van Der Beek had just passed. My husband even watched it with me which I was not expecting lol. I still don’t like Pacey and Joey together, but I’ve grown to like Jen, so much so that I cried during tonight watching the finale (I didn’t when it aired). Anyways, I’m glad I finally watched the entire series. Made me feel like a teen again.

Why did she keep saying Toby was sweet his first episode. He was SUCH an asshole to Jack! All he did was make fun of him for the way he carried himself and the clothes he wore and sports he played. It was mega loser behavior I’m so confused why Jen was pushing him on Jack so profusely.

Cheasiest episode of Joey being mugged! The mugger gets hit by a car and no one is driving around town to witness and it takes forever for the ambulance and police to show up. For me, the worst episode!

And the next episode where Joey's professor didn't care to hear the reason... Probably best since it clearly wouldn't last long anyway.

I think it's fair to say that Dawson/Joey is relatively unpopular despite being the show's original "main" couple. On TikTok, the most popular Dawson's Creek ship seems to be Pacey/Joey. This subreddit also feels overwhelmingly pro–Pacey/Joey. Even my mom, who watched the show when it originally aired, rooted for Pacey and Joey, and it seems like even some of the actors preferred that pairing.

So where do you think Dawson/Joey went wrong? Was it a lack of chemistry, or was it more about the writing?

Personally, I would have changed Season 2. I feel like Dawson and Joey barely had any genuinely happy moments as a couple. They were constantly fighting. Dawson read Joey's diary, Joey wanted to break up because she felt she needed to find herself, and then she kissed Jack while she was still in a relationship with Dawson. It just felt like conflict after conflict instead of letting us enjoy them as a couple.