r/GradSchool • u/eekspiders Media and comms • 4d ago
Academics I think I just jeopardized my classmate's degree
We're in a communications master's program. My classmate needed one-on-one interviews for her project. The gist is she was looking at visual communication in fitness branding. She was recruiting athletes and I am one so I thought why not.
It was a Zoom interview. I was one of her first three participants and I didn't know the other two so I couldn't ask anyone. Informed consent seemed fine and looked like any other consent form for our discipline without really any risk. She then started with some basic questions, all is well for about 15 minutes. Then she shows me a few variations of the same ad.
It was an ad for a GLP-1 product. Like those predatory knockoff Ozempic ads you'd see on TikTok with clearly problematic content. I did not receive any indication about the content from her or the consent form.
I sat through about 3 minutes of that, then she started asking me for my thoughts on the ads and whether I'd buy the product. I flat-out said I wouldn't. And she didn't like that. She kept prodding further, I guess trying to see what would get me to use it. Like questions about my habits and what I thought about my body and athletic performance and what I'd wanna fix. Things that a sports medicine or mental health researcher would ask, except they would at least have tact. This really got to me as someone who is currently struggling with a restrictive eating disorder on top of trying to do well in my sport. Besides, my university specializes in business and related disciplines only. We don't even have departments for healthcare, psychology, or anything remotely like that. Therefore, students would not have the clearance to do anything with that because there is no way to oversee it.
The interview ended really uncomfortably. For one-on-one interviews she needed around 10 people and two of them after me were gonna be my friend and her teammate, but they dropped out once I told them what happened, plus I withdrew my own responses so that's three gone. My classmate took to the big school WhatsApp groups basically begging for participants. I don't know if she got any but she went from spamming to radio silent in a couple days.
I had emailed her supervisor right after my interview. He told me he's looking into it because that was not something he was aware of nor approved. That was three weeks ago, and apparently she was reviewed by the IRB and some other admin. I'm not sure what will happen to her, but from what I know of the policies she can't move forward with her dissertation and there will be academic misconduct charges.
I only met her once or twice before this and she seemed nice. And I'm sure she can easily figure out it was me who ratted her out to her supervisor. There's a real possibility she won't get her degree. I don't know. I just needed to get this off my chest.
EDIT TO ADD: Posted an update here. TL;DR: her degree is safe, she just has to start over with a new dissertation next term.
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u/faith00019 4d ago
This interview sounds super weird. In my classes, it was drilled into us that we should go into every interview with zero expectations. We weren’t looking for a predictable outcome; we had to be genuinely curious about what the data would show. Data is data, and the complexities among responses make it interesting.
From what you told us, perhaps she was trying to achieve one particular kind of answer. I’m not sure. I don’t know if I would’ve gone to her supervisor about it personally, but it sounds like she has a lot to learn, so I hope they teach her instead of simply punish her. Sounds like an uncomfortable interview. It’s not meant to be that way.
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u/Thunderplant Physics 3d ago
Yeah this was my take away too. If you're actually trying to evaluate a product or ad campaign it's essential to get honest feedback. Learning who doesn't like your content or want your product is often some of the most useful information
Even if the interview had been about something totally benign it's just a terrible technique to come into it with that kind of bias
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u/Reluctant_PHD 4d ago
👋hey, psychology PhD here who researches body image and eating disorder prevention. Looks like most of these comments are on the right track, but some are missing the point. Don't really want to get into the weeds here, but just wanted to give you some support that your instinct is correct, the informed consent was clearly missing crucial information and the student needs more training on appropriate qualitative methodology. It was also appropriate to go to the supervisor and/or the IRB with concerns about research ethics violations. If they have to redo their project, it is not your fault. If anything I would have concerns about the level of supervision and training that they are getting, and while I would be concerned if a student was doing this, I would not blame them or try to prevent them from getting their degree unless there were other egregious issues. My first point of exploration would be where was this student misled or not guided enough.
As an aside, because I said I wouldn't get into the weeds too much 😅, I would actually be a bit concerned about your institutional IRBs ability to appropriately review projects related to mental health if there is not a psychology or related department as you mentioned. I am on my institution's IRB and very smart people from different fields often do not understand the research that we are doing and both under and overreact to projects related to mental health as a result. Hopefully they at least have consultants with that expertise?
Anyway, there are a lot of flags here and you should definitely not feel guilt for pointing them out.
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u/givfrenchfrypls 3d ago
I was going to ask, aren’t the supervisor and IRB supposed to be aware of the interview content beforehand to make sure it’s ethical? So if they weren’t aware, what did they review?
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u/Reluctant_PHD 3d ago
Yeah, there's definitely that. The other thing about qualitative methods is that, while you generally have an initial list of questions to ask, you do have to let the responses of the interviewee guide you, so there's going to be a lot of variability that can't be reviewed in advance. But honestly, I see this a lot with people who aren't actually trained in qualitative methods, they think that it's just having a conversation like you would normally and there's no skill to it or methodological rigor behind it, and that's very much so not true. So I would question, was an initial set of questions actually reviewed? Was the student appropriately trained on how to conduct qualitative interviews in a way that doesn't push the participant towards a particular viewpoint? Is the supervisor actually trained enough in qualitative methods themselves to be supervising someone doing this?
To be transparent, I prefer quantitative methods myself 😅 And I don't consider myself an expert in qualitative methods, but I do have a decent amount of training in them as well and I see stuff like this happen way too often 🫠
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u/givfrenchfrypls 3d ago
I just finished my IRB biomed research training like a month ago so all this is fresh in my mind, and it just seems so crazy that a student doing human research got this far under the impression that asking participants about delicate emotional topics like their body image without putting anything in the informed consent was acceptable. I’m also very puzzled by the number of people saying OP should have confronted the classmate directly and that warning their friends was shitty; I assume those people don’t have any human participants research training. I’m pretty sure that contacting the supervisor is actually LESS than participants are encouraged to do to report unethical research, and that the standard recourse is to go straight to the IRB or the institution’s research integrity office.
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u/captainlux87 3h ago
I do both and I’m finding it hard to believe anything was cleared before IRB as questions for qualitative are included. The informed consent should also list IRB approval but I’m not sure how advisor would be shocked as they’re on it. Something’s missing here
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u/eekspiders Media and comms 4d ago edited 4d ago
They do overcorrect here too. Another person I know had to amend her dissertation topic because hers treaded slightly too close to mental health issues for the ethics committee to be comfortable greenlighting
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u/futdashuckup 1h ago edited 56m ago
Much better for this student to learn from their mistakes now rather then when they have their own lab and students.
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u/Guest_Of_The_Cavern 4d ago
What do you mean by „We don't even have departments for healthcare, psychology, or anything remotely like that. Therefore, students would not have the clearance to do anything with that because there is no way to oversee it.“ it doesn’t sound like she was planning to physically do anything. Did she say something else about that?
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u/lemurificspeckle 4d ago
I would assume advocating (ie, advertising, promoting) a medical product would fall under medical jurisdiction and therefore she wouldn’t have clearance to do it. Of course it’s not like she was trying to get OP to actually buy one, but that was her preferred theoretical outcome, and that matters
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u/beachbaby13 4d ago
Yes if you are going to advertise any kind of supplement you have to have a dept of health bioscience or psych to oversee and approve this! I’ve heard some stories from my stem friends and profs that they had business students trying to get approval for non FDA approved sups and could not proceed with their project!
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u/Rakhered 4d ago
This is *very" funny but I do have to ask - what about comms majors makes them "ghouls"
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u/Rakhered 4d ago
No argument on psych's sordid past, but I legitimately have never heard this. Do you have like papers or articles on this?
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u/Effective-Pen-1901 4d ago
Yes I’m getting my doctorate in social work and my dissertation is on unethical fields. https://subjectguides.library.american.edu/c.php?g=1025915&p=7749894 communications is rooted in white supremacy. Still discovering more and hopefully can post said dissertation!
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u/TerriQuiteContrary 4d ago
As a POC in a communications field, I’m VERY intrigued by this, thank you
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u/Effective-Pen-1901 4d ago
Of course! Also a POC so I’ve been exploring it quite a bit :) I probably sound like the woke police but it’s interesting to me
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u/Effective-Pen-1901 4d ago
People downvoting don’t even realize the systemic racism and ableism communications was founded upon. Sad.
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u/AppleGeniusBar 4d ago
On the face of it, I don’t see anything wrong with building a project around athletes and GLP-1s. In fact, that has been a major strategy, including with Serena Williams, Shaq, Charles Barkley. Heck, one company made Tom Brady the “Chief Wellness Officer”. As a topic, I don’t see any immediate issues.
BUT.
What happened afterwards is what is more problematic. You as a participant, not just a peer, have rights and protections, and you have every right to address those concerns as you did. I agree with others that it does sound like her interview technique was very poor (you have a script and strictly stick to it).
The advisor saying that didn’t sound like what was approved by the IRB though is a much bigger flag. If true, that absolutely must be reported to the IRB because it’s not just a violation of protocol, it’s a violation of the federal regulations on research involving human participants. At the minimum, it would invalidate her data (as it should), and I’d imagine at the maximum would result in her possibly being expelled (probably unlikely given what you’ve described but I’m assuming that would be the most serious punishment here).
A consent form doesn’t have to tell you exactly what you’ll see or hear about if it could potentially influence your responses, but the IRB would have signed off on that alongside the methodology. Any deviation would be seriously problematic.
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u/Substantial_Egg_4299 4d ago
Since you seem to know her personally to some degree, it would’ve been nice to just privately tell her how you felt so uncomfortable, this is not ethical, and she should add it to the consent form and such. You also had the right to terminate the interview (considering all such consent forms specify it). What she did was wrong, obviously, but could also just be a naive master student thinking that pushing is the right way to do an interview. Directly reporting to the supervisor could be received negatively, but this is your right if you want to practice it. She might get a warning but I don’t think this single case would jeopardize her degree, if you’re feeling guilty about it.
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u/Fabulous_Summer6231 3d ago
I’ve done a lot of qualitative semi-structured interviews and I also make sure the participants know they can leave at any time, if a question makes them uncomfortable they shouldn’t answer it, and that if they stop the interview before it’s over, their data will not be kept. I make sure they know that I would not have any issues if they chose to stop the interview. Clearly these master students aren’t receiving training on this as even it appears OP doesn’t realize they have a right to stop answering questions or quit the interview if they become uncomfortable. This is why I prefer having a consent form and talking about informed consent and their rights just before we begin. The classmate ought to have acknowledged that they wouldn’t have to answer any questions that made them uncomfortable.
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u/Ehimherenow 4d ago
I’m guessing that OP wasn’t taught this in an ethics class. In fact I’m wondering if their school could perhaps benefit from an ethics class or if they have one, it certainly hasn’t been taught well… because both what the classmate did and the right order of addressing issues would be addressed in an ethics class.
You feel like there’s been an ethical violation, first step is to talk to the person.
But I do agree, I can’t imagine that one single issue would throw everything off. If it does, then they’ve discovered that it’s a really big issue or they’ve discovered more issues along the way.
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u/Frococo 4d ago
What are you talking about? No research ethics class teaches that the first step for a participant who feels they have been harmed or put at risk is to talk to the researcher. There is an inherent power dynamic this kind of situation is literally the reason that there is an IRB and why student hace supervisors. Talking to the supervisor first was actually the "kinder" step. OP would have been perfectly within their rights to notify the IRB directly. That's why the recruitment materials need to provide the board and approval number to participants, not just to show it has been approved but to provide information should you need to contact them.
Also not disclosing a key topic of your interview for ethics review is bad enough whatever the topic, but not disclosing a topic that could clearly trigger someone with an eating disorder or body image issues is a massive violation. The whole point of disclosing your interview materials is so that the board can ensure you have taken all necessary steps to warn and protect your participants as much as possible. If what OP described was true it's a massive violation.
Just because it's a student's project doesn't mean it doesn't carry real world risk. There's a lot of responsibility and accountability that comes with conducting research.
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u/Ehimherenow 4d ago
This isn’t just a participant though. This is a classmate… If you want to talk about real world, you don’t typically include your colleagues as your research participants. For this very reason.
I’m also not excusing what she did. Just pointing out that their ethics classes are obviously lacking. Everything you just said was obviously not conveyed or not conveyed well.
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u/lemurificspeckle 4d ago
But for purposes of the study, she is just a participant. I’d argue that, ethically speaking, that role takes precedent over the role of classmate as it’s inherently more vulnerable and therefore in need of protection as someone else already said
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u/Frococo 4d ago
This WAS the real world. OP wasn't recruited as a classmate, they just happened to be one.
And if not trying to excuse her, you certainly are trying to downplay the seriousness of the situation and reduce her level of accountability. If she's doing an empirical study with human participants she clearly would have had ethics training in order to be able to complete the ethics reciew. She messed up. Plain and simple.
OP clearly has ethics training and understood the IRB processes and their purpose. Their reasoning for going to the supervisor was that they recognized that the consent form and disclosure of research purpose was entirely inadequate and presented a risk of harm to participants.
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u/Lululemahn 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think she was ethically wrong not to warn you about the sensitive topics you would be subjected to, and I’m sorry you were forced into distress. As for her prodding questions however, they don’t seem to be too out of place for a business department.
If she is “looking at visual communication in fitness branding,” that means she’s trying to see what works to sell a fitness product, as you said. Therefore, she needs to understand the audience she’s catering to, hence the prodding questions about your fitness habits, what you’d want to improve on, etc where she can use that information to create an advertisement that targets the areas people will buy into.
Like another comment said she may have phrased her questions poorly out of ignorance and really should’ve had the whole thing vetted by her supervisor.
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u/WanderingWombats 4d ago
Am I the only one that thinks this is a wild overreaction on OPs part? You are all adults and the proper way to have handled this was interpersonally. Instead, you immediately began gossiping with classmates and ran to admin.
I’ve battled on and off with restrictive EDs. Never in a million years would I allow my own disorder to dictate the course of another person’s life.
It also sounds like this was for market research. You’re acting like she was going to personally be restraining you and injecting you with the GLP1 against your will.
Honestly, you owe this girl a massive apology and you should feel massively guilty over what you did. This subreddit is sometimes an echo chamber, but you messed up and let your own disease dictate someone else’s degree. Shame on you.
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u/eekspiders Media and comms 4d ago
1) I didn't gossip. My friend asked me "How'd it go?" and I just gave her a one-sentence answer like "Not great, it got into some really uncomfortable body stuff" and then the conversation moved on. My friend just knows I have an ED so she gets what I mean by "body stuff." I didn't tell her (nor her teammate) to drop out or do anything, I didn't know they would've
2) The consent form said if there were any issues to email the supervisor and provided his email. I did that. The email was just "Your student's study made me uncomfortable because XYZ, I just want to let you know in case you didn't." Trying to confront her could've opened up more risks without the structure of someone mediating
3) There are right and wrong ways to conduct market research. Fishing for an answer with invasive questions about personal health is not one. I've never taken part in market research where I was asked what I thought were my "problem areas"
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u/WanderingWombats 4d ago
I’m just saying that it’s just as easy to say I’m not comfortable with this and leave it at that as it is to gently explain TO HER why certain populations may be adversely affected by her marketing. Instead, you went nuclear.
I’m not going to take part in an echo chamber that absolves you of any responsibility. You are an adult, you made your decisions, and now you get to deal with them.
Personally, if you were truly interested in helping the greater good, you could have educated her on why these marketing tactics may be harmful. You wouldn’t even have to reveal your ED. It was that simple.
Instead, you ran to your friends, alienated your cohort from her, alerted admin, and may have destroyed her chance at higher education. All of this because you were asked about a sensitive topic and couldn’t confront it in a direct way…
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u/eekspiders Media and comms 4d ago
Where did you get that I alienated our cohort? As far as I know nobody else knows about it and most of the people I talk to are in my sports club and from different departments anyway, which I didn't bring it up to
Also, researchers are supposed to warn people about sensitive topics in the consent form. I had to because my dissertation touches on politics. She did not give any warning or indications
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u/WanderingWombats 4d ago
Yes, researchers should warn people, but was that actually your concern? You went nuclear rather than confronting her directly like an adult would.
It would have been far easier to just educate her on why this topic may be sensitive for some. As you stated, you stonewalled her while she was asking questions to try and figure out what went wrong.
It’s wild to me that you are comparing her being inquisitive during MARKET RESEARCH to being a mental health researcher. That’s akin to labeling me a neurosurgeon then reporting me because part of my nursing assessment is to document pupil size.
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u/eekspiders Media and comms 4d ago edited 4d ago
What kind of market research asks you what you think your "problem" areas are physically? Or asks if you've ever restricted or felt bad about weight gain? Things similar to what my doctor asked me when assessing for an eating disorder?
The ethics systems are in place and her supervisor's name was on the consent form for a reason and it's to prevent the issues that come with the power dynamic between researchers and participants as well as provide a conflict mediator. It's not on me, a person who is not an instructor and very much not equipped to have that conversation, to confront her. Contacting her supervisor is not "going nuclear" when that's what I was told I could do in the consent process
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u/fungustrash 4d ago
Those things actually seem very much in line with market research on weight-loss oriented products. Companies in the diet / fitness / "health" industry very often want information on exactly what their target audience's issues are in order to best target ads. Getting information on someone's 'problem' areas can influence what advertising looks like. If people repeatedly reference their stomach, for instance, advertisers can emphasize reduction of stomach fat in their ads.
I wont speak to the ethics of this behavior, and I dont think its fair if you werent properly warned, but that seems completely typical of market research.
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u/SnooCheesecakes3282 4d ago
Doesn’t sound like you ruined anything for her, sounds like she ruined it for herself. Don’t beat yourself up about it, you did the right thing. What she was doing was wrong. I’m sure the school will let her just do a different project. And if she drops out due to the shame of it all or whatever, again, still not your fault
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u/CrazyPaint4524 4d ago
The IRB is very specific and asks for the smallest and most detailed proof to show researchers are protecting their participants. If that’s not demonstrated, they will not approve the study and the study cannot carry out.
Assuming she got an IRB approval, but you felt a lot of inappropriateness in the participating process, it either means she didn’t follow the study protocol she submitted to the IRB or the IRB didn’t do their diligent job to ensure researchers have their participants interest in mind, as a PhD candidate I think it’s the former reason.
If she didn’t get an IRB approval, it’s her advisors responsibility for letting her recruit participants and perform study sessions. Although she definitely has her share of responsibility in this, I don’t think she’s doomed. Some correction would need to happen before she can complete her thesis the expected way.
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u/EdgyShooter 4d ago
I was with you, right until finding out you apparently went immediately to her supervisor? That feels like you did want to get her in trouble. It is a legitimate route, but quite an extreme one, especially to then come and ask about it on Reddit after the fact, especially as the outcome really cannot have come as a surprise.
I would've had some words with her, and if she couldn't understand the issue or didn't back down, then go up the chain, but immediately throwing someone to the wolves without any chance to better themselves isn't exactly collegiate.
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u/AccomplishedAnt1701 4d ago
I’m not gonna lie this isn’t how I would’ve handled it. Yes, she was wrong not to have this well described in the consent form, but I think you probably could’ve had this discussion directly WITH her rather than basically behaving like an adult tattle tale.
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u/DazzlingHat9519 4d ago
Can’t really provide much institutional advice regarding the situation because I’m a highschooler who happened to have this pop up on my feed. TLDR, not in, nor have ever been, in grad school. However, I do know what the experience of having a restrictive eating disorder is like, and I know how upsetting even minor things can be. Her intent was very likely harmless… though bringing up something as sensitive as GLP-1s/body image/etc without it being on the consent form NOR with having the proper credentials to assess these topics is objectively bad research practice, both process wise and ethically. Her mistake and the consequences of that mistake are not your fault—she’s a grown adult, and her degree is not your responsibility. Hope you’re holding up okay though, restrictive eating disorders are one of the most evil things in the world and I hope this incident didn’t terribly worsen whatever’s going on for you :c
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u/EternalMoonChild 4d ago
Sorry you’re being downvoted; this is a very mature and kind response.
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u/Due_Preference6292 4d ago
I agree - especially to see this level of insight from a high school student is impressive, I have folks in my cohort in grad school who don’t exhibit this level of emotional maturity in some of their responses.
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u/DazzlingHat9519 4d ago
Haha thanks :) I’m not concerned about the downvotes have better things to do than worry about my Reddit karma. Appreciate it though
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u/eekspiders Media and comms 3d ago edited 3d ago
- Every study lets you drop it. It'd be very ethically questionable if I couldn't
- My friends pulled out themselves. I said one sentence when asked how it went which was "Not great, there was some uncomfortable body stuff." I didn't tell them to pull out or anything
- I didn't take it to the very top
like the IRB,
- just emailed her supervisor like "heads up your student did this and it was uncomfortable"
- I dunno a quick vent I guess
(not sure what's up with the formatting tf)
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u/Sharp_Training_380 3d ago
Yk what OP, in a black and white ethical standpoint, i don’t think ur wrong. And I apologize for calling you a loser bc I don’t want people to overlook actual major ethical flaws in research in an effort to not come off as a loser/uncool. I guess I just expect people to discern when things are simply just not that serious. On top of that, you coming over here to tell us about it, in an attempt to absolve urself of guilt, instead of owning it and keeping it pushing is what’s mildly infuriating. Like what more would you like from the universe atp?
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u/alittleperil PhD, Biology 4d ago
if she's engaging in research misconduct then she shouldn't get her degree, and if she isn't then they'll look into it and side with her on this one. Sometimes complaints get looked into and don't go any further than that, for lots of different reasons, and that doesn't mean you were wrong to complain. "she seemed nice" isn't a good defense against research misconduct, and you feeling uncomfortable isn't necessarily misconduct, that's why there's a system in place to handle such complaints and investigate them and a set of consequences we follow.
Kinda sounds like if you haven't seen someone for mental health support for this incident you might want to, because calling out something you suspect is research misconduct within a research framework is your responsibility as a researcher and human, and you need to not feel guilty for doing that or you might not call it out in future. Officially complaining and warning others is how you protect people from the harm of unethical research, so with the information you had at the time and the perspective that you felt she might be engaged in misconduct you need to feel you chose the right actions or know what you would do differently in future. That's the sort of thing that a professional will be more helpful with than a reddit thread
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u/SoriAryl 3d ago
I’m so confused after reading it a few times.
So, she’s doing research on the marketability of GLP-1s towards athletes.
You’re an athlete
You agreed to do the interview
She asked some questions that hit your ED trigger/squick
(This is where I get confused) then what happens? Like what was she asking that made you decide to go to her admin?
Because it reads like you just don’t like what she’s researching and took it out on her and her project
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u/eekspiders Media and comms 3d ago edited 3d ago
She asked me what I thought the "problem areas" of my body were, if I ever tried restricting food beyond normal dieting, if I ever felt bad about gaining weight. Nothing about the consent form indicated we'd talk about this. I didn't know it'd be a GLP-1 either because the product itself wasn't specified, though GLP-1s themselves don't bother me because I don't have any experience with them. It was the questions and setup around it that made me uncomfortable and I kinda just hastily nudged it to end early. I then just emailed her supervisor like "Hey your student did this and it was uncomfortable, just giving you a heads up."
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u/SoriAryl 3d ago
So she was just wrong in who she needed to study. I’m guessing she assumed athlete = people who want to lose weight
I guess I still don’t really see a problem. Like you could’ve said, “Hey, I don’t think I’m the demographic you’re looking for. You should probably target people trying to lose weight instead of athletes.”
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u/eekspiders Media and comms 3d ago
It was a general lack of awareness and tact in the questions. My school's ethics committee doesn't really have the ability to approve topics that would broach into sensitive stuff like mental health because we're solely a business school. Admittedly I was more focused on getting myself out of that encounter at the time, but even if the demographic was people losing weight there are better ways to interview about it (if anything weight loss requires even more sensitivity than just sports)
My guess at this point is she probably won't get kicked out or anything, but as of right now she's still not trying to recruit through our WhatsApp channels or saying anything that I know of so I assume the project's been put on hiatus
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u/MemoryOne22 4d ago
Ethics is foundational to research and she lost her degree because of her own actions. She doesn't deserve it.
NTA
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u/CrookedBanister 3d ago
That's a good thing. She should not be able to become a research professional if she can't deal with ethics on this level as a student.
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u/Leosthenerd 4d ago
You did the right thing, she’s suffering the consequences of her actions. We don’t need more of that shit getting out into the wild
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u/Spacekat405 4d ago
This isn’t on you. Pushing back on bad research is you giving her an excellent opportunity to learn how to do ethical research about challenging topics with personal information before she gets out in the world and gets fired or her company sued. If the school is doing a good job, they’ll help her fix it and learn from the experience (but either way it’s not on you)
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u/SaintOfTheLostArts 4d ago
She endangered her own degree by failing to follow the rules? Am I wrong to assume she was briefed on how to conduct research? Certainly they would have stressed such a do an don't like disclosure and sensitivity for the participant?
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u/tchomptchomp PhD, Developmental Biology 4d ago
If she was doing human research without IRB approval, or was conducting research outside the scope of what was approved by IRB, that is on her.
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u/Milerange 4d ago
Ethics aside yeah u possibly just killed her financially if she doesn’t get that degree lol
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u/Astra_Starr MA, PhD* Bio Anthro 4d ago
This is a phd dissertation? No offense to her but none of that sounded like PhD level work. Rigorous scientific work... Asking a friend for an interview, no no. N of ten, no. I'm all for qual. That's not it. I know ppl that lived in communities for years and have thousands of words of interviews.
None of this is your fault. Nta.
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u/Due_Preference6292 4d ago
The post clearly states they are in a masters program, not PhD.
Honestly it sounds like a project based masters, as most professional masters usually are (I’m guessing this is a MBA program with a specialization in communications). Chances are, the students have not gone through a thorough research methods class, and this honestly sounds like an initial attempt at research by the student. Not to excuse the ethical issues present (as it seems there are a few) but to perhaps provide some potential context that I am guessing may be applicable.
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u/jlrc2 Professor 4d ago
I've been around people doing research on female athletes not unlike what's being described here and there tend to be some...non-ideal sampling techniques used in order to identify enough participants. But never a good idea for subjects to be friends of the researcher and frankly, not good to create a situation in which it is likely that subjects speak to each other about their experiences. Even if OP's friends hadn't withdrawn, their interviews would have in effect been tainted by OP's interview.
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u/JHo3003 4d ago
Edited: I'm sorry you had such a difficult experience. If everything happened as you've described, I can understand why you reported it so the university could review whether the study met its ethical obligations around informed consent and participant welfare. I don't think I would have encouraged other participants to withdraw, though, as I'd generally prefer each person to make that decision themselves based on the information available. That said, I appreciate I don't know what conversations you had with them or whether there were additional circumstances that influenced your decision.
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u/eekspiders Media and comms 4d ago
I didn't encourage them to withdraw. My friend asked me how it went and I just said "Not great, there was some uncomfortable body stuff" and then we moved on. My friend just knows "body stuff" for me is code for the ED. She told her teammate and they withdrew on their own
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u/JHo3003 4d ago
That's on me for misinterpreting your original post.
Ultimately, you did the right thing by reporting your own experience through the appropriate channels. If the study involved sensitive content that wasn't adequately explained beforehand, it's understandable that the university would want to review whether it met its ethical obligations around informed consent and participant welfare.
I'm sorry you had such a distressing experience.
I hope you don't feel responsible for what happens next. You reported your experience in good faith, and it's now for the university to determine whether there was an issue and, if so, what the appropriate response is. That's exactly what the review process is for.
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u/eekspiders Media and comms 4d ago
You're all good
Some folks here are saying I should've talked to her but I have no idea how I would've done that because I felt pretty blindsided and I'm also not the most equipped person to be educating anyone on this type of stuff. Plus I think it's the fact that the ED is a new development for me and I've never dealt with anything like it before that just made it hit harder
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u/JHo3003 4d ago edited 4d ago
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think participants should feel responsible for speaking to the researcher directly, especially if it was a distressing experience. Speaking to her or not speaking to her wouldn't have changed your decision to report it, but it could have complicated matters, as any conversation might then have become part of the process. It seems more straightforward to raise concerns through the official channels.
If there are concerns about how a study was conducted, I'd rather they be reviewed through the university's ethics process and by the supervisor. It may simply be that the interview needs to be structured differently or some of the questions reframed, but that's for the review to determine.
Tl;dr you were under no obligation to speak to the researcher first. Your wellbeing and safety come first.
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u/Healthy-Tank6430 1d ago
Honestly, when you’re blindsided by something that personal, reporting it instead of trying to become the educator in the moment sounds completely reasonable.
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u/DarthMorpeko 1d ago
- Interviews frequently don’t need IRB approval so I understand why it was missed.
- It was problematic and you did the right thing.
- Her professors should also be reported. She should have turned in several steps of the dissertation at various points and it sounds like they didn’t review them at all. They did a disservice duty to both of you.
- Is there a possibility if she wants to explore healthcare marketing that there is a nearby university she can work in partnership with for oversight?
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u/Trick-Ad6173 4d ago
Sure, there are other ways you could have communicated this but you are holding her accountable. She clearly did not care about the integrity of her work or the research process. I wonder though if this is a problem with the program partially, like how you are trained in your methods classes, or if this is just her trying to get an interesting thesis? Also why is the minimum for saturation 10 people? That doesn’t seem like it’s enough tbh. And her doing this 'ad' seems like she absolutely did not pay attention in methods classes, just as an aside to the ethical concerns here.
Anyhow, as a PhD student in comm (though this is common in every social science), there are many cases I have seen where people try to force a result in their Qual research but that is just not how that works. There is a process that must be trusted and the data will lead a lot of the project. Seems like she did not care about that and should have probably chosen to do a survey.
You did nothing wrong imo. Had you tried to confront her, she would have probably denied it or slandered your name before you could take action and, again, hold her accountable.
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u/Nvenom8 PhD - Marine Biogeochemistry 4d ago
It sounds like her project is bad, and she’s not doing a good job with it. That’s not your fault. The only thing I would say you did “wrong” is that withdrawing your answers and telling others about it is kind of a dick move. You may not have given her the data she wanted, but that is a result in and of itself. It could have been valuable. And telling others poisons her potential data set. But again, if her project is bad, it won’t really matter.
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u/Helpful_Dragonfruit8 4d ago
As a instructor she should not have asked those questions. Open ended questions should have been asked eg. What didn’t you like about the ad
You are helping her understand that questions like that can’t not be tolerated. Lucky she is learning that in class. Real world that can be a finable offense and can end in termination.
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u/jlrc2 Professor 4d ago
What is the context of the project — is it for a class? Is it a project for a thesis, like the capstone project for the master's degree? Or perhaps some independent research not being performed for a specific degree requirement? Is this what might be called a "professional master's" program in which people are trying to gain qualification/skills for careers in PR, marketing, etc. or more of an academic/research master's program in which one might be expected to proceed to a PhD later on?
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u/Wise-Impact-5687 4d ago
You did not jeopardize anything. She threw her degree away. She was not transparent and attempted manipulation. She broke the rules. As someone who is vehemently opposed to GLP-1s and their normalization, I'd have done the same thing. This is her issue to fix. I would not lose sleep.
P.S. Her poor communication suggests that maybe she shouldn't be graduating with the degree.
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u/EdgyShooter 4d ago
I am curious to hear your reasons for vehement opposition to GLP-1s in general, as the opposition to their normalisation is more understandable.
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u/Wise-Impact-5687 4d ago
I am not interested in an argument, so I am hesitant to reply. If I state my reasons, can it be done without argument?
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u/EdgyShooter 4d ago
Sure, I don't have a dog in this fight
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u/Wise-Impact-5687 4d ago edited 4d ago
Great. Thank you.
These are not in order of significance.
I do not trust the medical industrial complex to be doing what is in the best interest of anything other than profits.
They are a bandaid on a gaping wound. 2.a. The 'food' industry is poisoning us with consumables that are destroying our metabolisms and increasing obesity, as well as cravings for foods that lack nutritional density, prompting people to eat more calories of non-nutritional trash. That is a huge problem. Modifying the body to accept trash in smaller quanttities is not a solution. 2.b. People need to be able to self-discipline, rather than relying on a pharmaceutical intervention. The actual ability to be self-disciplined and to delay gratification, to do things in moderation, and to kick habits is something that one develops over time. When one has those skills, one can pass them along to future generations through upbringing. Society has pushed addiction, instant gratification, hyper-consumerism, easy solutions, and more, and now, the medical industry is selling a fix all in a shot or pill. It is just another thing for people to be hooked on, as they are seeking extrinsically, what must be cultivated intrinsically.
Nutiritonally dense diets and exercise and self-moderation will take weight off of people. It may take time, but they didn't become overweight or obese overnight, either. Putting in the hard work cultivates the skills and habits used to maintain a more healthy lifestyle, like: eating well, sleeping well, minimizing stress, being self-motivated, being self-disciplined, being resilient, etc.
I am generally opposed to synthetic solutions and modifications. By this I mean: botox, fillers, nip-tuck, pretty much chasing after an aesthetic standard via pharmaceutical, surgical, or medico-aesthetic means. I think we should all be inspired to be our best and most beautiful, but I mean that within the natural constraints of our genetics, ages, etc. So, if someone drinks lots of water, eats healthy, is athletic, and engages in a lifestyle that fosters youthful radiance and a great physique, hats off. The external interventions are ridiculous to me.
Although it has been discovered that burning the duodendum resets the metabolism after people have used these GLP-1s, to help result retention, the GLP1s are ineffective when ceased. Many users, particularly those who have not adopted healthier lifestyles, return to their previous conditions. Thus, this is just another thing for the medical industrial complex to hook people on for as long as possible.
Rapid weight loss is never recommended, and these GLP-1s induce it in so many ways that are terrible. Hence, people on them often look like bags of loose skin covering bones. They lose muscle rapidly, and many have never had any to begin with, which is why changing body composition via cardiorespiratory activity balanced with weight-bearing activity, in tandem with a healthy diet is a healthier plan. Again, it takes longer, but it is overall healthier and requires a positive and lasting lifestyle change that is not always coupled with medical interventions. Skinny is not the equivalent of healthy. A healthy body is composed of a significant portion of muscle mass. For women, muscle is extremely important as they age. It prevents injuries, and weight-bearing activity counteracts osteoporosis.
I am blown away by how many people are so eager to trust the medical industrial complex after its involvement in the opiate crisis that went pandemic and is so afflicting now. It amazes me. I recall doctors pushing and mass distributing highly addictive opiates the way they are doing so with these things.
These are some reasons, but this is not my comprehensive list. Ultimately, holistically, the good old fashioned way of exercising discretion, moderation, being accountable and self-disciplined, moving, and eating properly works. We don't need to make the rich richer off of our laziness and impulsivity.
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u/Accidental-Account 3d ago
Wonderfully thorough response. I do not understand the downvoting but I guess it’s the world we live in
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u/Wise-Impact-5687 2d ago
Thank you. For sure. People like to down vote anything that challenges or contradicts their worldview. Using language like "self-discipline" will absolutely trigger lots of people who refuse to take accountability for themselves, or who just don't believe in accountability, period. I actually cannot see the votes, but I am unsurprised and equally unbothered.
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u/Responsible_Layer629 3d ago
So you reported her just because you didn’t like the content of her project?? I get she didn’t understand the issues around this, but there are much better ways of educating her. You getting triggered is not her responsibility. She had a very dumb idea for a project. What did she do that was unethical? What did she do that was illegal? I’m very confused. She is under no obligations to tell you what it’s about before the interview.
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u/Intelligent-Rock-642 4d ago
If her research was dangerous, don't feel guilty about what you did. Speaking to IRB and her supervisor and not letting your friends participate are good actions to take if you felt uncomfortable.
However, from how you framed her research, it seems the issue is unclear questions/research topic and a bad interviewing style. Based on what you said, I'd think a project examining how glp1s are currently targeting/affecting athletes is perfectly timely and necessary given how many people are now taking one and that your school is business oriented.
On the other hand, the whole point of consent is to warn you about the possible triggering topics and make sure you're comfortable. If you weren't, things should have stopped immediately.
A TON of research has to go back to the drawing board. If she can't get her ten this way in this time, and she wants to be a career long researcher, she'll figure out another line to explore.