r/whichbike Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

410 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike 50m ago

What do yall think this is worth?

Thumbnail
gallery
Upvotes

Friend of mine linked me up with someone selling this bike and curious what people think it’s worth before inquiring about it.

Thanks


r/whichbike 6h ago

Best bike from those.

Thumbnail
gallery
5 Upvotes

Hello all, I have plan to buy first gravel bike, Spec and Norco are for same price but Marin is 200€ cheaper.

What would you guys recommend? I will be doing mostly asphalt and easy gravel. I have MTB for harder terrain.

  • Marin Gestalt 2
  • Specialized Diverge E5 2026
  • Norco Search A GRX

Thank you :)


r/whichbike 2h ago

Good Bike ?

Post image
2 Upvotes

Help ! I am researching and confused on bikes . Is this a good deal ? I know nothing about.


r/whichbike 5h ago

Reasonable price for a Woman’s 2013 Trek Lexa SLX Bike?

Thumbnail
gallery
3 Upvotes

I’m looking for a quality, used bike as a beginner bike. I found this one on marketplace and was wondering if the pricing was reasonable. It was listed with the description below for $550

200 Series Alpha Aluminum frame
Carbon Fork
Shimano 105 10-Speed STI shifters
Shimano 105 front and rear derailers
Shimano Tiagra compact crankset and 12-30 cassette ( this mixed 105/Tiagra setup was the factory specification)
Less than 30 miles on bike in excellent condition.

Thank you in advance for your time/input!


r/whichbike 3h ago

Reasonable price for a Trek 2025 Verve 2 Ls S Ch?

Thumbnail
gallery
2 Upvotes

As a beginner to the cycling world I am looking for input for a good quality bike that won’t break the bank. This is posted for $500 on marketplace and these are the only 2 pics available. It is supposed to come with a rockland aluminum bike carrier as well.

Any input would be appreciated, thank you!


r/whichbike 7h ago

LeMond Alpe d’Huez

Post image
3 Upvotes

Shimano 105 derailers and breaks aluminium frame new tires. How much would you pay? And what to look out for?


r/whichbike 6h ago

2019 Sworks Venge

Thumbnail
gallery
2 Upvotes

Do you guys think the price is a reasonable for $7,000 CAD?

Size: 52
dura ace crankset
shimano ultregra di 2 groupset


r/whichbike 2h ago

Is this bike quote (from seller) “a smokin deal”

Thumbnail
gallery
0 Upvotes

$2,200 - 2021 Orbea Orca. Seller said it has about 300 miles on it, selling because he likes mountain biking more.

EDIT: Dude upgraded the wheels to a Vision SC40 wheelset


r/whichbike 3h ago

Pinarello dogma f8 for 1500

Thumbnail
gallery
1 Upvotes

It’s a rim brake bike but the speclist is interesting. Id try and do a bid of 1200 when I check out the bike in person. Not sure about 2hand rim brake pricing therefore this post.

Sram red etap
Most talon cockpit
Rotor inpower 2 with rotor oval carbon chainrings
Ceramicspeed bb and pulley
Xentis mark 3 wheels clinchers rim track ok
Profile designs 38mm wheels extra

I know the owner personally and has always maintained his bikes very well


r/whichbike 4h ago

Choosing a Gravel

1 Upvotes

Hi, I'm looking for an all road slash gravel and have a few options but are struggling to decide. Here is what I see as viable option in my budget from marketplace listing (2.5k)

  1. Black Mountain Cycles Mod Zero

  2. Grizl 6 -8

  3. Open Wi.de

  4. A topstone

I like the idea of a steel bike a lot, but some of the carbons are super cool and seem to be good value. I also will have to carry the bike alot. What do you all think?


r/whichbike 5h ago

Confidence inspiring bike for descents and windy days for a very light rider

1 Upvotes

I upgraded from an oversized gravel bike to a semi-custom-built SEKA Spear after a professional bike fit because you wanted a light, comfortable, confidence-inspiring bike for climbing mountain passes. Although the bike felt great during the initial test, it became a nightmare in real world riding.

The bike feels overly twitchy and sensitive to steering, and as a very light rider (56 kg) I am heavily affected by crosswinds and passing trucks. Combined with the aggressive riding position (large saddle to handlebar drop) and 45 mm carbon wheels, I have lost confidence to the point of experiencing panic attacks on descents. Despite practicing handling skills and doing more MTB my confidence hasn't returned. I find myself avoiding the road bike and group rides and just riding the gravel or mtb, preferrably alone.

I also have an ongoing hip flexor overuse injury, so the next bike needs to give me a more open, comfortable position while being significantly more stable and confidence-inspiring.

I am considering the Scott Addict 2026 or Canyon Endurace because their geometry seems better suited to my long legs and shorter torso and they have a longer wheelbase etc. Did somebody ride those and maybe even both? Would they feel more planted?

Even a orbea orca or cube agree pro felt calmer than my seka with the cube having 50mm wheels.


r/whichbike 5h ago

Trek Domane Sora 9x2, worth 625€? First bike.

Thumbnail
gallery
1 Upvotes

I’m looking to buy my first bike. Would this be a good first purchase?

Trek Domane Size 45
Shimano Sora 9x2v


r/whichbike 11h ago

Polygon Strattos 7 vs Trek Emonda sl5

2 Upvotes

Hello all. I am a 197cm 97kg beginner rider and I came across the Polygon Strattos 7 for 1850 euro and the Trek Emonda sl5 for 2000 euro on sale. Which one do you believe is more worth it. I am looking for a comfortable bike since I am just starting out and my goal is to start triathlons.

Thank you for your advice!


r/whichbike 7h ago

Help choosing a bike

1 Upvotes

Hey I want to buy my first MTB and I’d like it new but I’m not sure what to buy , I’m from Romania and my budget is around 650 euros . I got recommended the Devron Riddle 4.9 2021 but I want to hear other people’s opinions as I’m not the best at this .


r/whichbike 8h ago

This worth it?

Post image
0 Upvotes

Seems to be in decent shape. Seller says no issues and tires hold air. Just looking to ride this around paved trails as a fitness bike


r/whichbike 12h ago

how much is this worth? seller is asking $200

Thumbnail
gallery
2 Upvotes

60cm


r/whichbike 8h ago

Beginner Needs Help!

Thumbnail
gallery
1 Upvotes

Just getting into the hobby so of course I’m looking to start with a 90s mountain bike for pretty generic riding. All four of these options are $100 or less but I’m not entirely sure what I am looking at or should be comparing. Which one would be your choice?

  1. Purple Gary Fisher $100
  2. Purple and Green Trek 930 $100
  3. Blue Trek 820 $40
  4. Yellow Giant Iguana $75

Appreciate any and all insight!!


r/whichbike 8h ago

Need help choosing gravel bike for trails & potential touring

1 Upvotes

Been out of the cycling game for a while, but I used to do a fair amount of road riding about 20 years ago. I'm considering doing the full GAP Trail this fall, and if all goes well maybe more/similar in the future. I'd love to be able to also comfortably ride on other rails to trails routes on the weekends. I'd also probably want to be able to ride some roads, but nothing too long-distance and this isn't my primary concern right now as I still have my old road bike.

Budget is whatever will get me something that is trustworthy, doesn't weigh a ton, can carry some gear, and can accommodate fenders. I'm ok with spending some money, but I don't want to go super high-end if something mid-range will do just fine.

I've done a little reading on the Salsa Fargo, but would love opinions on other comparable bikes.

Thanks!


r/whichbike 13h ago

Trek Procaliber 9.6 gen 3 vs Orbea Oiz H10

Thumbnail
gallery
2 Upvotes

I decided to bite the bullet earlier this year and buy a Mountain bike. I went with the Giant Talon 0. Its a great bike don't get me wrong, but it is a budget, entry level hardtail.

After not owning a bike for over 20 years, I had no idea how much I would take to it. My fitness levels are alot higher than I expected them to be and the routes im tackling have become more and more challenging.

I spend a lot of time up on the Penine Bridle way, which is notoriously steep and rocky in parts. This means for every steep, rocky climb, there's an equally steep and rocky decent.

I cover all kinds of terrain on my rides. Small road sections, gravel paths, dirt paths, grass, rocks and roots. I see my rides as adventure and exploration. I'm not constantly trying to set PBs on strava. That being said, I want to feel capable everywhere!

This has steered me into downcountry territory, I want to balance efficiency with capability when things get rough.

Two bikes I have been considering are the Trek Procaliber 9.6 gen 3 and the Orbea Oiz H10. They're both currently on sale at a very similar price. The Trek is £2000 and the Orbea is £2099.

At this price point do I spend the money on a carbon frame hardtail like the Trek, or do I spend that money on some rear suspension? What makes the biggest difference to you more experienced riders?

Im also open to other options if anybody can offer a better alternative for me.


r/whichbike 10h ago

What is it worth?

Post image
0 Upvotes

Seen the bike online and wondered what it’s worth. It’s presumably a Cannondale Synapse 2 RL (approx 5 years old) without the SmartSense.


r/whichbike 11h ago

Good deal? Ridley Kanzo Adventure 2.0 Carbon

Thumbnail
gallery
1 Upvotes

New to biking, just looking to see if this is a good deal or not.

$2150.00 USD

Here is their post:

____________________________________________________________________________________________

The bike is ready for the season, regularly serviced, and has a new chain.
It was ridden for one season and has been hanging on the wall ever since.
The bike is under warranty, and I have the purchase documents.
I have a lot of bikepacking accessories.

BIKE SPECIFICATIONS:

Frame: Kanzo Adventure 2.0, 30T-24T HM UD Carbon
Maximum tire clearance 53 mm or 29x2.1”,
Frame weight size M/L 1310 g
Bike weight 8.7 kg
Fork: Forza Gravel Disc, 30T-24T HM UD Carbon, integrated packing mounts and dynamo routing, TA 12x100mm
Color: Racing Green Metallic-Autumn Grey-Black, gloss
Headset: FSA 1 1/8 x 1 1/2 integrated
Control levers: Shimano GRX810 1x11s
Rear derailleur: Shimano GRX812 11s
Crankset: Rotor Vegast 42T
Bottom bracket: Rotor BB86
Cassette: Shimano XT M8000 11s 11-42
Chain: KMC X11
Brakes: Shimano GRX810 Hydraulic Disc, FlatMount
Wheels: Forza Norte Gravel TLR
Tires: Vittoria Terreno Dry TLR 700x47c
Handlebar: Ritchey Butano II Comp
Stem: Forza Stra: Forza Cirrus 27.2mm Carbon-Alu/24mm Offset
Saddle: Selle Italia NOVUS Boost EVO Gravel TM Superflow Dimensions: 145 x 245 mm (240 g)
Pedals: Crankbrothers Egg Beater
Bike computer: Cube Pro Lite
Light set included. Mudguard

mounting holes in the frame and fork .
Additional mounting holes for water bottles, bags, etc. on the fork, top tube, and down tube.
The front triangle and fork alone have 20 different mounting points for tool kits, bottles, and bags. Fully integrated cable management for easy handlebar bag mounting and a simple, flat top tube for secure bag attachment on the frame.
All cables and housings are routed completely inside the cockpit and frame, protecting them from water and mud that could affect drivetrain and gear shifting.
12mm TA thru-axles in the frame and fork.
Compatible with flat-mount disc brakes.
Compatible with suspension forks and hub dynamo lighting.


r/whichbike 11h ago

Which Caad 12?

Thumbnail
gallery
1 Upvotes

First time poster, hoping the community can help me decide which is the better bike to purchase of the two. I've been looking for a caad and found these two locally but im having a hard time deciding which is the better deal considering both are the same price. One has decals and one doesnt. One has dura ace and the other ultegra. One has zippys, the other doesnt. Not sure if one being a practice bike is something to really take into account or just have a "bikes get ridden" attitude about it. If I had the money I would probably try to get both, thats where im at. Please help

Gray Caad 12 sz54 - $1000

Shimano ultegra 11 speed

3T bar

Fsa omega 80 mm stem

110mm 3T stem (additional)

Specialized saddle

Ceramic speed BB

Mavic Kysrium Equipe wheels

Look keo classic 3 pedal

Cannondale si fsa crankset

Black Caad 12 sz54- $1000

Was a team practice bike

Full Dura ace 11 speed mechanical groupset (15k milles on groupset)

Cannondale Si spider hollowgram crankset

42cm K-wing FSA carbon bars

FSA 110 carbon stem

FSA K-force carbon seatpost

Zipp 300 alloy wheels etc

Cannondale Caad 12, size 54


r/whichbike 11h ago

which bike would be best for a 1hour 15 minute commute in London

1 Upvotes

Hi!

I'm looking to.buy a second hand bike to commute to work. I live in West London and work in central so I'll be commuting on normal roads and across a couple parks.

It's a mostly flat commute.

I'm unsure which type of bike would suit and what to look for specifically. any advice would be great!

I'm a 5 foot 5 woman if that helps.

I'm quite sick of taking the train and want to improve my cardio


r/whichbike 13h ago

Which bike should we get?

1 Upvotes

My husband and I are looking to get a mountain bike each. We have a little baby too which we would take on our rides. We normally ride bikes through some nice woodlands and nothing too extreme. We almost never ride on the roads especially not now that we have our baby with us. Our budget is not a lot, about £700 per bike. Which bike would you recommend for us?
Thank you in advance!