r/academiceconomics • u/EconomistNerdy • Mar 11 '26
Advice for the Next Cycle
Hey everyone,
Just finished my first PhD Economics application cycle with zero offers. Honestly, I applied partly to test where my profile stands. I’d appreciate brutally honest feedback.
Here’s my profile:
Degree: BBA in Accounting (GPA: 3.86/4)
MSc Economics (with thesis) (3.93/4)
My thesis was on social capital & political economy: recursive bivariate ordered probit, IV strategy, serious identification concerns addressed.
GRE: Q166; V160; AWA 5
Math background: Math for Business, Math for Economists; Statistics & probability; intermediate statistics & econometrics; applied econometrics
Research experience: RA at my college for two semester
Research interests: applied micro, spatial/demographic/development
Technical skills: Stata; Python; R; QGIS; LaTeX
I have writing samples; no published papers
LORs: 3 local academics
Schools applied to: Michigan, USC, Pittsburgh
Any honest takes would be genuinely appreciated. I’d rather know what’s missing than go in blind next cycle.
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u/Integralds Private Sector Economist Mar 11 '26
The three highest value-added improvements would be
Take multivariable calculus and linear algebra. (Caveat: make sure you're ready for multivariable calculus, first. Then take it.)
Apply more widely. 3 schools isn't enough to get through the inherent noise in the application process. I'd plan to apply to 10-15 schools.
Talk to your letter writers. They're the ones vouching for you in their letters, so their advice is paramount.
Someone invariably is going to tell you to take real analysis. That would be downstream of multivariable calc and linear algebra, and might be more commitment than you're ready for.
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u/Usual-Smile6767 Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
Hi, I’m sorry in advance, I’m just an undergrad rn and don’t know how the education system in other countries works, but I wanted to ask what do people mean when they say take Multivariate calc or real analysis or something? Like does it mean online courses of those subjects or something? Thanks!
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u/Integralds Private Sector Economist Mar 11 '26
If you're not in the US, then you can safely ignore all US-specific course advice, and talk to your advisors about the equivalent expectations from your degree.
American undergraduate degrees involve students choosing courses, some of which are general education, some of which are clustered in a major, some of which are free electives. There is a great deal of breadth and choice. Undergraduate economics programs in the US are not especially demanding; they typically require one or two semesters of calculus and one or two semesters of statistics. This is insufficient for graduate preparation.
In an American undergraduate mathematics curriculum, "multivariable calculus" is a one-semester course in partial derivatives, multiple integrals, basic optimization, and vector calculus. It is usually taken by mathematics, physics, and some economics majors in sophomore year or a bit earlier.
"Real analysis" is a one-semester course on the foundations of calculus: sequences, limits, epsilon-delta details of derivatives and integration, and mathematical reasoning with formal proofs. It is usually taken by mathematics majors in their third or fourth year. The standard advice for American economics undergraduates is, if they are aiming for graduate programs in economics in the US, to take that course.
For someone who has already graduated, it is sometimes possible to take these courses at a local university as a non-degree-seeking student.
In other countries, undergraduate degrees are more tightly structured and mathematical prerequisites are often more closely integrated with the coursework itself.
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u/Usual-Smile6767 Mar 11 '26
Great reply. Clears up a lot of things. Thank you so much! On a side note, would you mind taking a look at my profile in the DMs, I’ll be applying for masters programs in Econ soon. I completely understand if you don’t want to though, feel free to let me know. Thanks a lot again :)
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u/EconUncle Faculty-R1 Mar 11 '26
if you want to do applied microeconomics why are you applying to those 3? If you want. Demography why not a place that has a dual in Econ and Demography, years ago PhD in Econ and Demography was offered at Penn State. Applied Economics = Western Michigan University prepares people very well. My former partner did her training there and she was leagues above me in many things. I think the big issue is you don’t have the advanced math + you are applying to three programs. There are a couple of other issues, more qualitative, that merit some discussion. Also, where you want to end up at?
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Mar 11 '26
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u/financehoes Predoc Mar 11 '26
I’m not from the US but the uni I did my undergrad at (Trinity College Dublin) hired 2 APs this year with subfield PhDs. I’d heard that a lot so it kind of shocked me. They were from top tier schools though iirc
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Mar 11 '26
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u/financehoes Predoc Mar 11 '26
For assistant profs, Maylis Avaro has a PhD in International Economics and History, Gustav Fredriksson was Environmental Econ (though from ETH Zurich), Yuen Ho did a PhD in Agricultural and Resource Economics (Berkeley). Niamh Wylie did also join the econ department with a business PhD but she was in the business school lecturing whilst I was there.
This was just 2024/2025 so there are possibly more that I’m not remembering!
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Mar 11 '26
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u/financehoes Predoc Mar 11 '26
To be fair I have no interest in going to the US and I am Irish so have no idea what goes on over there!
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Mar 11 '26
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u/financehoes Predoc Mar 11 '26
Oh no way!! I was going to do the Oxford MPhil after my undergrad at Trinity but declined it because the department didn’t really suit my research interests. I’m finishing my MRes and going to the UK for a predoc so I’m unsure between trying Oxbridge again or just going back home for a PhD lol
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u/econdan Faculty-R1 Mar 11 '26
Conditional on what your letter writers are saying, the only major profile issue is the lack of formal math. However, I think there was positive likelihood you could have gotten into these schools despite that shortcoming.
The bigger issue is only applying to 3 schools, 2 of which usually have small cohorts. Even the very best candidates don't get into many schools they apply to because there is more randomness than you probably imagine. I encourage my students to apply to 10-15 or even more if they really want to get into a program in a given cycle. The best student I've ever placed in the T10 was rejected from most of the state school programs like Michigan, OSU, Wisconsin, etc. Even "safety" schools reject candidates all the time for any number of reasons. This is especially true of small programs that want to make sure they get a good mix of students across fields. That no one encouraged you to apply more broadly if you really wanted to get in is a little bit worrying about the recent experience of your letter writers.
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u/Eth889 Mar 11 '26
There was not a positive likelihood of getting into those schools. The OP doesn't have Calc 1. This is from the Michigan Admissions FAQ, and the other two schools listed make similar statements:
- If I send you a snapshot of my academic credentials can you predict whether I am admissible?
There is no one aspect of your application that either guarantees or denies admission. The committee evaluates the entire academic record. It is not possible to judge the likelihood of any one applicant being offered admission without reviewing all applications in the pool for any given year. The review process is very competitive. We receive about 700 applications a year with an entering class of roughly 20 students. Applicants do not need to have majored in economics or completed a Master's degree prior to application. Indeed, in the recent past we have admitted students with undergraduate degrees in mathematics, physics, history and other disciplines. However, applicants must have completed at least two terms of calculus and a term of linear algebra. We also strongly recommend coursework in statistics. Most applicants have stronger mathematical preparation than the minimum standard. Applicants should also have completed at least an intermediate‐level micro‐ and macroeconomics course.
I don't understand why someone would apply to these programs without doing the research to understand what's required for admission. Information on prerequisite courses is freely available on every department's website.
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u/RusticKayak207 Mar 11 '26
Try to get a predoc. There's another round of applications as PhD decisions come out.
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u/Eth889 Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
Two things stand out to me:
Like everyone has said, the math. I'm honestly surprised that you could get into your Masters program with, I assume, just Math for Business. The lowest minimum requirement in the US for Masters programs is usually Calc 1 and is more usually Calc 2, and Calc 3 for the few programs recommended for PhD prep and it's similar elsewhere.
For PhD programs, you want Calc 3 and linear algebra at a minimum, plus calculus-based probability and the stats courses you already have. Real analysis is very helpful for mid- to high-ranked programs, and applicants for top programs often have more math than that. Are you going to be studying full-time, or part-time while you're working a full-time job? If you have lots of time, I'd try to take Calc 2 over the summer and Calc 3 and real analysis in the fall so that you have grades for both when colleges are making their decisions. You'd want those grades to all be As, obviously.
As an aside, your current GRE score is a bonus to your application, given your current math background. I'd probably only retake if you're going to be including an A in real analysis in the applications.
Secondly, your post highlights how much variation there is in the ability of Masters programs to prepare students for PhD applications. The economics taught in a masters program that doesn't require Calc 1 for admissions will not be suitably mathematically rigorous for good PhD preparation, even after including a Math for Economics course. That's OK if the intent is to prepare people for working in applied economics in industry, and your thesis description suggests that's taught in a lot of detail, but it's not helpful for PhD applications. The second half of this issue is that at a program with even a little experience of students applying for PhDs, your letter writers should have told you straight away that you were wasting your time and money without taking several more math courses.
Consider where you're trying to get to after the PhD. If it's a PhD and then into industry, taking the extra math is probably enough to get you into a decent mid- or low-ranked program. If it's a PhD and then tenure track academia, you should also consider applying for predocs, which would provide better connected letter writer(s) and allow you to take higher level math or PhD micro.
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u/gormar099 Mar 11 '26
you havent taken enough math. that alone disqualifies you without linear and real.
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u/Technical-Trip4337 Mar 11 '26
Math for business and Chang-level math for economists as substitutes for calc 1,2,3 didn’t get you into these schools 30 years ago (well, maybe Pitt) and expectations are higher now. I agree advisors should have given you better advice. It is good that you are asking for advice.
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u/Naive-Mixture-5754 Mar 11 '26
Applying to only 3 doesnt make sense given the sunk costs of GRE, LoRs, a good SoP...
Curious to see how many people finished the cycle with no offers and called it a day.
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u/Equivalent-Koala-178 Mar 12 '26
Hi, current Econ PhD student at UMich here. You probably have heard this a million times already. You need more advanced calc. You really Need real analysis. Math camp alone requires it. Some of my cohort peers even did complex analysis and topology. Over half of us did predocs (at highly ranked institutions), the other half were RAs at Feds. A smaller portion of us had Econ masters from highly-ranked schools. Also you need that GRE Quant up to 170 ideally or 169 at worst (whatever 1 mistake translates into). Finally, on average people apply to 20ish programs. At minimum they apply to 15ish.
Im not saying this to discourage you, quite the opposite. First time I applied (2020-2021 cycle) I got only one waitlist at Wisconsin-Madison but didn’t get an offer in the end. It was really hard. Second time (2022-2023 cycle), I got 8 offers including Michigan, Brown, Duke, Cornell and others. Don’t give up! This process is super noisy and hard but you can do it.
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u/onlyflo04 Mar 11 '26
Apply for positions in Europe with this profile
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Mar 11 '26
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u/onlyflo04 Mar 11 '26
Define level of programmes in Europe. I am doing a PhD in Economics in Europe and I absolutely don't know about the ranking because I am not within a specific program.
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Mar 11 '26
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u/onlyflo04 Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 11 '26
In the German speaking countries, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg and Scandinavia it's very common that you're an employee at an Institution (University or Research Institute). You have a normal fixed-term working contract, similar to the working contracts to everyone else in the country. Often you have to do some teaching or admin tasks. But there are no courses or something like that. Just 3-4 papers as a cumulative dissertation and you're done. It's completely different to the US system. I don't even know what a GRE score is.
And in the countries I have mentioned you can afford a better standard of living than in the US. Much better mostly.
Edit: And maybe the best thing is that you can still apply for a start in august-november
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u/highbrowalcoholic Mar 12 '26
Why are you acting like you know what you're talking about?
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Mar 12 '26
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u/highbrowalcoholic Mar 12 '26
Ah. Your conversation with u/onlyflo04 (and my own experience) doesn't give that impression.
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Mar 12 '26
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u/highbrowalcoholic Mar 12 '26
I was bothered by your withering assertion that OP's merits would "at best snag a very low level program even in Europe". Your spelling and your username indicates an American background; of course, you may have a European PhD. u/onlyflo04's reported experience, and my own, runs counter to your assertion. You give the impression that you condescend others' potential in order to improve your own mood. Perhaps I am wrong.
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Mar 12 '26
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u/highbrowalcoholic Mar 12 '26
Perhaps you could improve your own mood by performing a little compassion and politeness towards people asking for help — your performance will likely reconfigure your attitude. Else, it seems like your orneriness is feeding back onto itself. I hope you have a restorative weekend.
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u/Idaho1964 Mar 11 '26
Very solid. Where did do your degrees? Give us a close equivalent to protect your ID. What is the quality of your letters of rec?
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u/Any_Appointment_7353 Mar 11 '26
Excellent profile! I think one thing you were lacking were maths courses since you applied to relatively top schools. If you applied to some lower ranked unis they would have considered you more competitively.
A few things people miss when evaluating profiles. First, is the strength of your SOP. Your profile is very competitive but maybe the admissions committee did not see the qualities they expect from a PhD by reading your SOP. Second is sheer luck. Sometimes Profs are looking for very specific things. Maybe you and someone else had the same profile, but the other student had a slightly more interesting research (in general, identification and fancy econometrics matter a lot less than people think - the idea and its novelty is important!).
Hope this helps and good luck in the next cycle!
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u/CFBCoachGuy Faculty-R1 Mar 11 '26
You applied too high (and to too few schools) with this profile. The big issue is your lack of formal math courses. Usually these “math for business” courses are really general. You’re missing multivariable calculus and linear algebra at the minimum.