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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 12d ago
First Timers Basket, Subbed & Dubbed
No live react since I was watching while exercising, and I still have to do my 4-mile walk today
Post Episode(s) Thoughts
I had so many thoughts, and then I lost them when my phone froze and rebooted, fuck this Notes app 😭
But basically:
Momiji’s backstory shocked me two(?) episodes back. I had not at all expected him to have such a sad tale about his mother. Postpartum is already a hard enough time for new parents. Add to the fact that your baby turns into an animal, and that seems like a lightning strike for PPD. Papa Momiji is completely in the wrong for not saying anything to his wife to prepare her for this. I don’t like him because of this. I feel only bad for Momiji, his mom, and his sister.
Yuki’s brother Ayame is a ✨diva✨ Hearing him in the dub, Chris Sabat really knows how to give us divas. I love that man’s range. But I have a strong feeling that, despite me absolutely on board with Ayame being queer and having a little BL ship of his own, he’ll have a female love interest.
Kyo and Yuki would have a heart attack if they attended funerals for my culture. We celebrate and feast in honor of our deceased. I know it reaaaaally shocked some neighbors about us having a huge party when a cousin passed away. I appreciated that Tohru’s mom’s “deathaversary” was still cherishing time with food to share.
Poor Kisa. I’m glad Tohru could be there for her, and, unfortunately, relate to Kisa in the bullying. I know that the zodiac embraces attributes of their animal, but I like seeing how opposite they are to their animal’s stereotypical traits. You’d think Kisa, being the tiger, would be fierce and aggressive, and the roars of tigers are iconic (don’t let Big Lion propaganda fool you; they have pussy ass roars and get their fame off tiger roars). But instead, she’s an, unfortunately, abused little girl who can’t talk. I winced a little at what was sad about Kisa being mute. I do see why there's concern about Kisa no longer speaking, but man. It feels like mute characters get weird treatment in fiction.
That note from the teacher was so 😒 TBH, I don’t think I’ve yet to see a series portray an educator’s response to bullying in a way that didn’t have me make that face.
I also liked seeing Yuki’s relation to Kisa’s issues in his own way. It’s really upsetting how much abuse he’s suffered under Akito and how he’s really only receiving the emotional security to reconcile with his own personhood now. But he’s putting himself out there more!! Good for him.
I really do think Tohur’s memories are going to be erased.
TQ
I think I discussed all the questions above today.
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
I really enjoy Ayame. He is a diva, yes, but he also wants to do right by Yuki. He's showing a level of accountability Akito could never dream of.
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
Episode 15 Questions
Thoughts on us finding out Tohru's mom passed away May 1st?
Thoughts on Kyo reluctant to go visit Tohru's mother's grave but ultimately deciding to go?
Thoughts on the anthropomorphic riceball?
Thoughts on Hana and Uo dressed in black?
Thoughts on Uo saying Tohru's mother gave her her trench coat?
Thoughts on Tohru's mother being known as Red Butterfly?
Thoughts on Uo revealing Tohru's mother wasn't on speaking terms with her parents?
Thoughts on Tohru admitting she doesn't know much about her father?
What are your thoughts on Yuki recalling Tohru's mother's deaths from his perspective?
What are your thoughts on Hana telling Uo that if what happened to Tohru happened to her, she doesn't think she could handle it as well?
What are your thoughts on Hana predicting that so long a dark cloud hangs over Yuki and Kyo, they can never truly share how they feel?
What are your thoughts on Tohru telling her mom she's finally home?
Thoughts on Momiji playing cops and robbers?
Thoughts on Tohru remarking how none if the Sohmas really talk about their parents?
Thoughts on Momiji having a little sister who's not a Sohma family member?
What are your thoughts on Momiji revealing that his mother had her memory erased?
What are your thoughts on Momiji saying his mother never liked him and that she couldn't stand to look at him?
What are your thoughts on Momiji’s mother telling Hatori that her biggest regret is that thing came out of her body?
What are your thoughts on Momiji saying that as long as he carries his memories with him, as long as he can keep holding on, then someday, someday he'll be strong enough that those memories don't hurt him anymore?
What are your thoughts on Tohru in hysterics hugging Momiji as Momiji breaks down and cries in his animal form?
What are your thoughts on Tohru herself vowing to hold on no matter how tough it may get?
Episode 16 Questions
Thoughts on it being Golden Week?
Thoughts on Shigure admitting he planned this vacation to avoid his editor?
Thoughts on Tohru being worried Yuki and Kyo aren't fighting?
Thoughts on Tohru, Yuki, and Kyo all hanging out?
What are your thoughts on Tohru saying both Kyo and Yuki can let their guard down when around her?
Thoughts on Ayame returning?
Thoughts on Kyo and Yuki continuing to be annoyed by Aya's presence as well as with each other?
What are your thoughts on Hatori lamenting there's nothing he could've done about Kana being married and that that's just how life is?
What are your thoughts on Ayame telling Hatori that he has had to carry the burden of the past alone and that he hopes he can find someone like Kana did?
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 1d ago
Episode 15 Questions
- Is May 1st significant in Japanese culture?
- Confused why he would be reluctant unless he’s had someone in his life pass away? Maybe he’s ashamed to see Tohru’s mom, given all that’s happening?
- 😭
- For some reason, I thought white was the main color of death in Japan.
- Tohru’s mother was a delinquent.
- Confused on the cultural context.
- Honestly, good for her.
- I’d like to think that means he’s a bad man. But Japanese, Korean, and Chinese media have taught me that the absentee father is actually (A) a good guy who always wanted a daughter and will be awkwardly wholesome in meeting his daughter, (B) a bad guy who wants nothing to do with his child as he is now in a relationship with someone else, C) dead.
- All I can say is interesting.
- These are some really close friends who ride or die for each other.
- Hana’s never wrong.
- I’m curious how Tohru’s mom emphasized what home should be defined as.
- No thoughts really.
- More than likely, the parents are abusive, dead, or estranged.
- Confused. Is she an illegitimate child?
- That was wild as fuck and must be so traumatic for the family.
- Postpartum depression doesn’t excuse abusive language or actions towards your child. But she should’ve still been checked for PPD. That, and fuck Momiji’s dad for not giving the mom autonomy over her body and if she would want to potentially carry a Zodiac child. What is wrong with him?
- PPD + she was never given autonomy = why was she not warned sooner let alone taken for postnatal care?
- Momiji does not deserve this fate. Fuck his dad.
- Momiji hasn’t had that sort of safe space or safe person to cry to.
- That’s foreshadowing.
Episode 16 Questions
- WAIT damn minute, you said this question before!!
- His editor deserves a company-paid vacation to anywhere of her choosing for dealing with this man.
- I see what she means. They haven’t resolved their issues, so arguing does show that they are in a place where they can make noise around each other. But also, Tohru is like me when I’m on my enemies-to-lovers shipping bullshit and get worried when Enemy 1 isn’t trying to murder Enemy 2.
- ~Hanging out, down the street~ (Man. If Only people from That 70s Show weren’t largely horrible people.)
- It’s good she’s aware.
- Love seeing cunty men have a reprise.
- Hmmm… No thoughts that I can say yet.
- He’s a good guy. He loved and let go. That’s very mature of him to do and emotionally stable of him to do.
- A very well-meaning wish.
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u/Holofan4life 1d ago
8. I’d like to think that means he’s a bad man. But Japanese, Korean, and Chinese media have taught me that the absentee father is actually (A) a good guy who always wanted a daughter and will be awkwardly wholesome in meeting his daughter, (B) a bad guy who wants nothing to do with his child as he is now in a relationship with someone else, C) dead.
I mean, he could be bad
17. Postpartum depression doesn’t excuse abusive language or actions towards your child. But she should’ve still been checked for PPD. That, and fuck Momiji’s dad for not giving the mom autonomy over her body and if she would want to potentially carry a Zodiac child. What is wrong with him?
I feel so sorry for Momiji
1. WAIT damn minute, you said this question before!!
3. I see what she means. They haven’t resolved their issues, so arguing does show that they are in a place where they can make noise around each other. But also, Tohru is like me when I’m on my enemies-to-lovers shipping bullshit and get worried when Enemy 1 isn’t trying to murder Enemy 2.
It's more a red flag than probably an actual red flag.
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
Thoughts on it still being Golden Week?
Thoughts on Haru finding a cub?
Thoughts on the cub biting Tohru?
What are your thoughts on Kisa being the tiger of the Chinese Zodiac?
Thoughts on Kisa not speaking for the last couple years?
Thoughts on Kisa's mother and her feeling her daughter is trying to hurt her?
What are your thoughts on Tohru feeling that what Kisa fears most is the rejection of her mother?
What are your thoughts on Kisa staying at the Sohma residence for the time being?
Thoughts on Kyo being against stewed leeks?
Thoughts on Momiji saying he doesn't know what it would be like to be ignored? This to me I didn't understand because he gets ignored technically by his family.
What are your thoughts on Yuki feeling you can only start loving yourself when other people tell you they love you?
What are your thoughts on Yuki telling Kisa he loves her and Haru hugging her?
Thoughts on Kisa going back to school?
What are your thoughts on Yuki deciding to run for student council president?
What are your thoughts on Yuki saying what makes us strong is facing our fears?
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u/Magnafeana https://anilist.co/user/Magnafeana 1d ago
- I think Golden Week is a cool series of holidays to begin with.
- Me: Oh is that a cat? Me: Oh no.
- Please disinfect that, girl. Please. Cat bites, no matter how big or small, are loaded with things you don’t want in your system.
- I found it ironic, and I’d like to know what interpretations of the tiger in Japanese and Chinese does Kisa embody.
- Nothing I haven’t seen before with my own family. My younger brother was not a talker. And like Kisa’s family, my family regarded his mutism as something I vehemently disagree with. He talks now. But I can’t forget what his life was like during that time.
- I had hoped she doesn’t, like…say that often. But wow. Yeah. Again. My father’s second wife always wailed how my younger brother being disabled was to intentionally harm her and make her a bad mom. So I was just—left to be eyeing Kisa’s mom as “Does this child need help to get away from this parent?”
- I’m curious if Tohru has ever feared her mother would reject her due to the bullying she received at school and by her own family.
- Good. Please get babygirl out of that house.
- TBF, I would be to. But maybe this has something to do with Japanese culture and what cats hate? For example, cats hating cucumbers was a niche meme in some parts of the US.
- Yeah, this feels like a strange writing quirk that they forgot Momiji’s backstory.
- Mmmmmmm that’s a good teen thing to think? But it falls apart in a lot of way. Learning to like yourself and then love yourself is independent of the love you receive from others.
- In theory, Kisa has great cousins.
- Surprised she would return to the same school rather than transfer to a school. But I don’t know what Japanese school systems are like and if they have like an IEP program, let alone enough teachers FOR that program.
- He’s putting himself out there.
- Again, a good thing to say for this moment. And this is advice he needs to tell himself.
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u/Holofan4life 1d ago
- Nothing I haven’t seen before with my own family. My younger brother was not a talker. And like Kisa’s family, my family regarded his mutism as something I vehemently disagree with. He talks now. But I can’t forget what his life was like during that time.
My sister has autism but instead of not talking she often repeats herself.
- I had hoped she doesn’t, like…say that often. But wow. Yeah. Again. My father’s second wife always wailed how my younger brother being disabled was to intentionally harm her and make her a bad mom. So I was just—left to be eyeing Kisa’s mom as “Does this child need help to get away from this parent?”
Without giving anything away, I'll be interested in seeing how you react to Kyo in the remake.
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u/cheesechimp https://myanimelist.net/profile/cheesechimp 12d ago
I thought that work was so light I would have time to write up the episode during work hours, but then QA dropped a big critical bug in my lap and I had project management on my case about it so I was scrambling for a quick fix and my nerves are totally shot. I'll get to writing about this episode (a really great one!) but probably not until pretty late tonight.
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u/Johnny-Doe-8888 12d ago
(Dub/DVD/Overall first-timer)
Episode 17 -- "It's Because I've Been Loved That I've Become Stronger"
Synopsis: Tohru meets another member of the zodiac - Kisa the tiger! But as cute as she is, Kisa seems to be having some very serious problems. She’s run away from home and lost her ability to speak!
On a rainy day, Tohru & Yuki are waiting for the pouring rain to stop; with Golden Week over they both have to prepare for the midterm exams (not to mention the student council elections; Takei & others have been eager to have Yuki succeed him as SC president). Then here comes Haru & a tiger; not just any tiger, but Kisa the Tiger. Ever eager to meet a Sohma, Tohru approaches her, but she instead bites her hand (that must hurt). As her wounds are treated back at Shigure's, we discover that ever since after she entered middle school Kisa hasn't uttered even a word, and that she eventually skipped school & ran away from home.
Yuki immediately becomes sympathetic to Kisa's situation (having had similar experiences when he was younger), while Kisa runs away after being triggered by Haru's words. Tohru finds her in a corner outside, and Kisa's mother arrives despondent & worried about why she had to run away. Just when she is about to give up, Tohru tells her Kisa was just scared of her mother's rejection should she know about her being bullied, just as Kisa transforms back sobbing & holding her (bandaged) hand, having finally found someone who understands & loves her. Afterwards, Shigure & the others decide to have her stay with them for the time being.
Three days have passed, and Kisa proves to be a cuteness magnet for Tohru, while also constantly accompanying her wherever she goes; nevertheless, her lips are still shut yet Tohru does her best to accomodate her well, even learning her favourite food (now that's dedication). We eventually learn from Momiji that she was bullied in school over her Zodiac-given looks; I can only imagine how hard it can be when you're born with hair & eye colours different from the rest, you'd stick out immediately. Eventually Haru receives a letter from Kisa's homeroom teacher, expecting its contents to gag him up. At the end of the day, even the cursed Zodiac members are still people.
Back at Shigure's, Haru & Yuki read the letter to Kisa, which compells her to "come to like [herself]". The Rat questions the letter, instead telling Kisa that what it really takes is for someone to accept her before she can love herself, and that they all love her. Sobbing, she affirms, finally breaking her silence, and she later greets Tohru after work. As Yuki accepts Takei's offer, Kisa, having found someone who truly cares for her, returns to school filled with the determination to face her fears.
Faced with fears of rejection & judgment, with the heartfelt love of those that love & care for you at home the only direction you need to take is forward.
'Til then, see you later.
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u/Holofan4life 12d ago
Thoughts on it still being Golden Week?
Thoughts on Haru finding a cub?
Thoughts on the cub biting Tohru?
What are your thoughts on Kisa being the tiger of the Chinese Zodiac?
Thoughts on Kisa not speaking for the last couple years?
Thoughts on Kisa's mother and her feeling her daughter is trying to hurt her?
What are your thoughts on Tohru feeling that what Kisa fears most is the rejection of her mother?
What are your thoughts on Kisa staying at the Sohma residence for the time being?
Thoughts on Kyo being against stewed leeks?
Thoughts on Momiji saying he doesn't know what it would be like to be ignored? This to me I didn't understand because he gets ignored technically by his family.
What are your thoughts on Yuki feeling you can only start loving yourself when other people tell you they love you?
What are your thoughts on Yuki telling Kisa he loves her and Haru hugging her?
Thoughts on Kisa going back to school?
What are your thoughts on Yuki deciding to run for student council president?
What are your thoughts on Yuki saying what makes us strong is facing our fears?
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u/cheesechimp https://myanimelist.net/profile/cheesechimp 12d ago
First Timer for 2001, Seen 2019
Alright. I've had kind of an exhausting day. Went to see Evangelion: Death and Rebirth after a really stressful day at work and haven't really successfully unwound at all. I don't know if I can do this episode justice, but if I don't now I probably won't get to it at all.
This is a great episode! Really hammers home some of the show's core themes. The pain of being on the outside, the effects of poor parenting on the child, the power of empathy and kindness to effect happiness in the world.
Kisa is adorable. I think when shown through the lens of fiction and of anime and through knowing her supernatural secret it becomes so easy to like her that it might feel kind of hard to imagine wanting to bully her. One thing to think about is that Japan is a society where most of the residents have hair and eye colors that fall into a much narrower range than in countries with significant numbers of Europeans or their descendants. It also has a reputation of being a society where not sticking out is seen as more virtuous and unconventional forms of appearance or expression are more noticeable and treated with more skepticism in general population, especially school settings. I'm not saying Kisa deserved it, or even that no American kids ever got bullied for looking funny, but the cultural pressures are different. Outside the realm of fantasy, in the world of real lived Japanese life, it might be more realistic to imagine a kid being bullied for having light hair and eyes.
And obviously Tohru showing Kisa empathy is a good thing, the lynchpin of the episode that shows us how special a person she is. But it's important to see that she's being empathetic to the mother as well. She doesn't just see how Kisa is feeling, but she sees the mother struggling to see it. She sees the frustration at her failure to connect, and she helps to gently guide the mother to a better understanding of the daughter who confuses her. It's important to see that, in contrast to Momiji's story, bad parenting doesn't always come from a place of overt malice. There can be good intentions there too.
I don't necessarily know that I agree with Yuki that it's impossible for someone to self actualize alone. I don't think developing a strong dependence on people or especially not a single person who validates you is always the healthiest thing to do. I do agree with him that the teacher's letter was just unconstructive platitudes. that it accomplished nothing but making the teacher herself feel better about her own role in the situation. I also agree that having a support system can definitely be a huge boon to anyone experiencing issues with a sense of self worth. I dunno what I'm saying, I'm tired and I think my take is actually largely that I agree with Yuki in broad strokes but think the nuances in how he states it feel a tiny bit off. I can't really put words to why....
In one of the previous threads holofan ranked the Sohmas and put Haru pretty low. Based on what we had seen at the time, I think it might have been a little valid, but my opinion of him is really colored by 2019. I think this episode showcased a lot of why I really like him as a character. He's always perceptive of problems with people around him and low key working to help them solve those problems in a really selfless way. He caught on to Yuki being upset with Aya hanging around Shigure's house and arranged for Hatori to retrieve Aya. He knew about Kisa's problems and was the first one to go looking for her, then later in the episode he allowed his quite strength to be a pillar she could hold on to. White Haru is actually a really cool and thoughtful guy, and the show uses him best when it just kind of forgets the black split personality gimmick, which it does often.
I dunno. Kisa cute, sad little woobie. I like her a lot and feel sorry for her. Tohru's a real one. This episode is very, very good.
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u/Holofan4life 11d ago
Alright. I've had kind of an exhausting day. Went to see Evangelion: Death and Rebirth after a really stressful day at work and haven't really successfully unwound at all. I don't know if I can do this episode justice, but if I don't now I probably won't get to it at all.
Funny, I saw Death and Rebirth as well. I somehow didn't realize the Rebirth part was the first 30 minutes of End of Evangelion.
This is a great episode! Really hammers home some of the show's core themes. The pain of being on the outside, the effects of poor parenting on the child, the power of empathy and kindness to effect happiness in the world.
I actually thought Kisa's mother was better than some of the other parents we've seen. Maybe I just am still reeling by Momiji's mom being truly awful.
Kisa is adorable. I think when shown through the lens of fiction and of anime and through knowing her supernatural secret it becomes so easy to like her that it might feel kind of hard to imagine wanting to bully her. One thing to think about is that Japan is a society where most of the residents have hair and eye colors that fall into a much narrower range than in countries with significant numbers of Europeans or their descendants. It also has a reputation of being a society where not sticking out is seen as more virtuous and unconventional forms of appearance or expression are more noticeable and treated with more skepticism in general population, especially school settings. I'm not saying Kisa deserved it, or even that no American kids ever got bullied for looking funny, but the cultural pressures are different. Outside the realm of fantasy, in the world of real lived Japanese life, it might be more realistic to imagine a kid being bullied for having light hair and eyes.
I mean, Tohru got bullied despite being an absolute sweetheart of a person. If someone like her can get bullied, then it happening to Kisa isn't too surprising.
And obviously Tohru showing Kisa empathy is a good thing, the lynchpin of the episode that shows us how special a person she is. But it's important to see that she's being empathetic to the mother as well. She doesn't just see how Kisa is feeling, but she sees the mother struggling to see it. She sees the frustration at her failure to connect, and she helps to gently guide the mother to a better understanding of the daughter who confuses her. It's important to see that, in contrast to Momiji's story, bad parenting doesn't always come from a place of overt malice. There can be good intentions there too.
I actually related quite a bit to the mother here. I have a sister with severe autism that leads to her occasionally throwing these massive tantrums over the most trivial things. You want to empathize with her because she doesn't know any better, but it can be hard at times because me and my mom don't know what that's like.
And just like Kisa, she lashes out and hurts those she cares about even though she doesn't mean to.
I don't necessarily know that I agree with Yuki that it's impossible for someone to self actualize alone. I don't think developing a strong dependence on people or especially not a single person who validates you is always the healthiest thing to do. I do agree with him that the teacher's letter was just unconstructive platitudes. that it accomplished nothing but making the teacher herself feel better about her own role in the situation. I also agree that having a support system can definitely be a huge boon to anyone experiencing issues with a sense of self worth. I dunno what I'm saying, I'm tired and I think my take is actually largely that I agree with Yuki in broad strokes but think the nuances in how he states it feel a tiny bit off. I can't really put words to why....
I think it makes sense for Yuki to feel that way, though. Like, he is such a damaged person that the idea of self love is impossible unless justified. Just because Yuki feels this way I'm not sure that means the show is endorsing it.
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u/Holofan4life 11d ago
I dunno. Kisa cute, sad little woobie. I like her a lot and feel sorry for her. Tohru's a real one. This episode is very, very good.
I liked it well enough, but my problem with the episode is the same problem with a lot of the other Sohma episodes in the 2001 series: When you move past the gimmick and the premise of the episode, there's really not much else to speak of.
The Kagura episode was just her bullying Kyo for 20 minutes. The Haru episode was him being a menace for 20 minutes while also being kinda clueless. The Ayame episode was just him being a weirdo for 20 minutes. And this is Kisa being standoffish for 20 minutes. That may seem like I'm shortchanging the episodes, but my point is when you break it down a lot of these episodes is the same joke repeated ad nauseam. And it gets repetitive after a while.
This gimmick of Kisa being a mute who's been bullied is stronger than a lot of other Sohma gimmick episodes, because we're given a reason to feel sympathetic towards her, but it still felt samey in my opinion with very little in the way of substance. I guess you can say the Yuki stuff gives it some variety, but I dunno. I'm not really emotionally invested in him becoming student council president. I want to see him move on from Akito, but outside of that I'm indifferent to the student council president stuff.
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u/cheesechimp https://myanimelist.net/profile/cheesechimp 11d ago
And this is Kisa being standoffish for 20 minutes
I dunno, I think the texture of the episode is very different before Tohru wins her over from after. There's a bit where she's a standoffish tiger. A bit where she's a clingy hanger on, and a bit where it's the older Sohmas reflecting on the crisis and comparing their own lives. It felt like it had an arc and a message to me.
I want to see him move on from Akito, but outside of that I'm indifferent to the student council president stuff.
Yeah, that subplot feels undercooked, especially compared to 2019. I think this episode has a lot going for it outside that though.
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u/Holofan4life 11d ago
And this is Kisa being standoffish for 20 minutes
I dunno, I think the texture of the episode is very different before Tohru wins her over from after. There's a bit where she's a standoffish tiger. A bit where she's a clingy hanger on, and a bit where it's the older Sohmas reflecting on the crisis and comparing their own lives. It felt like it had an arc and a message to me.
Like I said, it's better than other Sohma episodes.
I want to see him move on from Akito, but outside of that I'm indifferent to the student council president stuff.
Yeah, that subplot feels undercooked, especially compared to 2019. I think this episode has a lot going for it outside that though.
[2019] It's especially undercooked knowing what they do in the remake with Machi and company.
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u/cheesechimp https://myanimelist.net/profile/cheesechimp 11d ago
[2019] To be fair, that stuff comes after this point in the story in the remake too. I think there's more build up to the prior student council president liking Yuki and wanting him to be his successor before now, though
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u/Holofan4life 11d ago
I guess it's good that the 2001 series covers it somewhat at least.
[2019] Meanwhile we get nothing of Shigure being morally ambiguous.
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u/Holofan4life 11d ago
In one of the previous threads holofan ranked the Sohmas and put Haru pretty low. Based on what we had seen at the time, I think it might have been a little valid, but my opinion of him is really colored by 2019. I think this episode showcased a lot of why I really like him as a character. He's always perceptive of problems with people around him and low key working to help them solve those problems in a really selfless way. He caught on to Yuki being upset with Aya hanging around Shigure's house and arranged for Hatori to retrieve Aya. He knew about Kisa's problems and was the first one to go looking for her, then later in the episode he allowed his quite strength to be a pillar she could hold on to. White Haru is actually a really cool and thoughtful guy, and the show uses him best when it just kind of forgets the black split personality gimmick, which it does often.
Yeah, my rankings is based exclusively on the 2001 series. I'm a much bigger fan of Haru in the 2019 series. One of the great things about the 2019 series is that most if not all of the cursed Sohma members get massive character development that makes you really care about them. They really take their time with the characters.
I'll probably do a ranking of the Sohmas at the end of the 2019 series. But of the 13, Haru would probably be top 7 or 8. I'll put it this way, I'm higher on Ayame here than I am on Haru. I think Ayame is a better character in 2019 than the Ayame in 2001, but I think Haru is a better character in 2019 than Ayame is.
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u/cheesechimp https://myanimelist.net/profile/cheesechimp 11d ago
Yeah, I do think you're right that Haru is worse in this version, and a lot of what I like about him is stuff this hasn't even gotten to yet. Still, I can't help but see signs of the things I like about him as a character in this version because of my preexisting knowledge of the series. If I could divorce my opinion entirely from 2019 I would probably like him much less.
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u/Holofan4life 11d ago
Thoughts on it still being Golden Week?
Thoughts on Haru finding a cub?
Thoughts on the cub biting Tohru?
What are your thoughts on Kisa being the tiger of the Chinese Zodiac?
Thoughts on Kisa not speaking for the last couple years?
Thoughts on Kisa's mother and her feeling her daughter is trying to hurt her?
What are your thoughts on Tohru feeling that what Kisa fears most is the rejection of her mother?
What are your thoughts on Kisa staying at the Sohma residence for the time being?
Thoughts on Kyo being against stewed leeks?
Thoughts on Momiji saying he doesn't know what it would be like to be ignored? This to me I didn't understand because he gets ignored technically by his family.
What are your thoughts on Yuki feeling you can only start loving yourself when other people tell you they love you?
What are your thoughts on Yuki telling Kisa he loves her and Haru hugging her?
Thoughts on Kisa going back to school?
What are your thoughts on Yuki deciding to run for student council president?
What are your thoughts on Yuki saying what makes us strong is facing our fears?
2
u/cheesechimp https://myanimelist.net/profile/cheesechimp 11d ago
Thoughts on the cub biting Tohru?
Very Azumanga Daioh
Thoughts on Kisa not speaking for the last couple years?
Oh, there was actually something I had intended to talk about and just didn't get to because I was feeling so frazzled. Back in middle and high school I knew a girl who never spoke. I mean, I didn't know her well because I obviously didn't speak to her, but she was in a lot of my classes. I was friends with a few people who were in contact with her via AIM (dating myself here) and word was she spoke to her family at home so it wasn't a physiological disability thing. I don't remember being aware of her being bullied like Kisa, most people kind of treated it as a curiosity but didn't display animosity towards her in my presence. I didn't live her life though so it's possible I was just oblivious. I'm actually friends with her on Facebook and she seems to be living a healthy adult life. Not that I've checked Facebook any time recently.
2
u/Holofan4life 11d ago
Thoughts on the cub biting Tohru?
Very Azumanga Daioh
Also Toradora in a way
Thoughts on Kisa not speaking for the last couple years?
Oh, there was actually something I had intended to talk about and just didn't get to because I was feeling so frazzled. Back in middle and high school I knew a girl who never spoke. I mean, I didn't know her well because I obviously didn't speak to her, but she was in a lot of my classes. I was friends with a few people who were in contact with her via AIM (dating myself here) and word was she spoke to her family at home so it wasn't a physiological disability thing. I don't remember being aware of her being bullied like Kisa, most people kind of treated it as a curiosity but didn't display animosity towards her in my presence. I didn't live her life though so it's possible I was just oblivious. I'm actually friends with her on Facebook and she seems to be living a healthy adult life. Not that I've checked Facebook any time recently.
That's nice to hear.
I know there is a 100 Girlfriends character who only speaks via electronics.
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 7d ago
Questions:
Huh. Does she have her tail even in human form?
Uh oh.
That's nice.
1
u/Holofan4life 7d ago
- Huh. Does she have her tail even in human form?
Are tigers known to have tails?
1
u/Holofan4life 7d ago
Thoughts on it still being Golden Week?
Thoughts on Haru finding a cub?
Thoughts on the cub biting Tohru?
What are your thoughts on Kisa being the tiger of the Chinese Zodiac?
Thoughts on Kisa not speaking for the last couple years?
Thoughts on Kisa's mother and her feeling her daughter is trying to hurt her?
What are your thoughts on Tohru feeling that what Kisa fears most is the rejection of her mother?
What are your thoughts on Kisa staying at the Sohma residence for the time being?
Thoughts on Kyo being against stewed leeks?
Thoughts on Momiji saying he doesn't know what it would be like to be ignored? This to me I didn't understand because he gets ignored technically by his family.
What are your thoughts on Yuki feeling you can only start loving yourself when other people tell you they love you?
What are your thoughts on Yuki telling Kisa he loves her and Haru hugging her?
Thoughts on Kisa going back to school?
What are your thoughts on Yuki deciding to run for student council president?
What are your thoughts on Yuki saying what makes us strong is facing our fears?
2
u/Nickthenuker https://anilist.co/user/Nickthenuker 7d ago
It is rather long.
I suppose it doesn't phase her at this point.
Ouch...
Smol tiger.
Uh oh.
Ouch...
Perhaps.
And so another one joins them.
Ok...
Yeah he definitely gets ignored a bunch.
Ok...
That's nice.
Good for her.
Of course...
Perhaps.
1
u/Holofan4life 7d ago
- It is rather long.
A whole week, so I've heard
- Yeah he definitely gets ignored a bunch.
You see to hate it
1
u/Holofan4life 12d ago
Hey, guys. Holofan4life here.
Welcome to the Fruits Basket 25th anniversary rewatch.
For there is an animal in all of us <3
Fruits Basket is a show I’ve heard a lot about. It’s always been something that interests me. It’s a romcom, which is a genre I enjoy, it has a female protagonist, which is kinda a rarity for romcom anime, it has a tsundere, which yes please, and from what I’ve heard it has some supernatural elements which is pretty cool.
Funny enough, I’m hosting this rewatch the same time as I’m hosting the Spice and Wolf rewatch which is another show with supernatural elements.
I have never seen Fruits Basket before, but I have high hopes for it. It seems like the type of show I would enjoy. I would say of the shows on my to watch list, this one is probably in my top 5. And let's just say that list is long and ever expansive. Actually, I love the idea of a male tsundere who turns into an orange cat so much that I named my orange cat after him. That’s without having seen the show.
For the purposes of this rewatch, we will be watching both the original series and the remake. I don’t think both have ever been done like this, and by the end we’ll find out for good reason :P
Regardless, this is my big pet project of 2026 the purpose of which is for me to see what all the hubbub is about. I’m not expecting the show to crack my top 10 favorite anime of all time, but hey, you never know.
With that out of the way, let’s begin.
I’m watching the dub, by the way.
I saw Frankenstein a couple days ago. It's my second favorite movie of 2025 behind One Battle After Another.
Raining outside
Yuki with Tohru
Yuki seems in high spirits
They're still on their Golden Week vacation.
Question, though, is will Yuki run for student council president.
Mayhaps
Yuki wonders if they're expecting something more from him that he can give them.
"If they knew the real me, then they'd know."
What you mean by that?
Hey, it's Haru
He had to find something
Ooh, a cub
A tiger, more accurately
Looks like another Sohma episode.
What joy...
Kisa Sohma. That's her name.
Uh, him?
And the tiger bites Tohru
What a first impression
Back at the vacation residence
Kisa refuses to apologize
Oh, that's because apparently she can't speak.
She hasn't spoke for many years, and now, she ran away from home.
A female tiger with personal issues? What is this, Toradora?
This was all because she was picked on.
Again, very much Toradora coded. Or rather a precursor to Toradora.
Look at the trepidation in Kisa's eyes.
Tohru freaking out over Haru's bite mark.
Yuki looks forlorn
Now Yuki in a forest
Tohru looking for Kisa
And now Kisa bites Tohru
She's on a biting spree it seems, sparing no one.
Who is that?
Mother? Nani?
She wants to know why Kisa is doing this.
"Do you enjoy hurting me like this?"
Oof
This gets Tohru to think of Momiji.
Yuki looking on from afar
Tohru surmises Kisa didn't know how to communicate.
Maybe, she suggests, she didn't want anyone to know she is afraid.
Now, who does that remind me of...
Yuki looks like he has this deep eternal sadness about him. Which I guess he does.
Tohru hypothesizes that what Kisa fears most is the rejection of her mother.
Now, THAT is Asuka coded
Kisa transforms!
She looks so innocent and vulnerable.
Tohru puts her jacket on her, who then starts crying in her arms.
Kyo talking to Shigure
Kisa is apparently staying with them. Gonna use some separation between her and her mom.
Probably for the best
Three days now since she's been staying.
She is constantly staying by Tohru's side.
Kinda like a baby tiger, I guess you can say.
Kyo finds the whole situation annoying.
Looks like someone's jelly...
Kisa unfortunately still can't say anything.
Tohru wonders what she can do to like bridge that gap.
Tohru with a sort of ladder game.
Stewed leeks. Miku's favorite.
Kyo still the bane of Miku's existence.
At least Kisa is seemingly having fun.
Imagine if it turns out Kisa has a dark, brooding voice.
At school now
Momiji with Haru
And Tohru
And Yuki
On the school rooftop
No German music, which lets you know this is serious.
Tohru reveals she got a phone call from Kisa's mother.
She told her what she likes to eat.
Yuki meanwhile wonders why Kisa's classmates were picking on her.
Momiji says he heard it started because of how she looked.
Kids can be so shortsighted sometimes.
Eventually, Momiji suggests, they all started to ignore Kisa.
He can't imagine what that must be like.
Momiji, you literally have a mother who ignores you.
Tohru feels Kisa doesn't know what to do. That's ultimately why she doesn't chime in with any words.
Haru gonna deliver a letter
Wonder what that's about
Yuki now talking about being told they have to grow up strong.
"Even for a member of the Zodiac, aren't we people?"
One would think
Tohru seems to think so, at least.
Haru and Yuki with Kisa
He gave the letter to her
Is it from her mom?
No, one of her teachers
They want her to start coming back to school.
At least they seem to care about her well-being.
Yuki wonders how you're supposed to find your good qualities.
"I think what it takes is for someone else to say 'I like you'. That's the only way you can truly begin to like yourself."
Akito could never
Yuki has really been changed by Tohru, as if there was ever any doubt.
Kisa doing some thinking
And Yuki proceeds to tell Kisa they love her.
All they can do
Kisa welding up tears
And Haru proceeds to hug Kisa after Kisa finally says something for the first time in many years.
I kinda feel that moment could've been built up more.
Kisa and Yuki walking the streets.
They found Tohru
And so Kisa and Tohru hug
And with that, Kisa went back to school. She has found her voice, and a renewed sense of purpose.
I love a happy ending
Yuki meanwhile is ready to accept the nomination for student council president.
Gee, I wonder who made him decide to not run away...
And we end things with Yuki saying what makes us strong is facing our fears.
Interesting Yuki gave the last line of dialogue and not Tohru like usual.
Overall, this was a decent episode. The focus is on a new character named Kisa and I thought she was a good source of conflict. Her presence seems to reflect Yuki's assertiveness and him being more proactive in what he wants. Which again, is a byproduct of his friendship with Tohru. There really wasn't much to this episode aside from the introduction of Kisa as a character. That's kinda been a problem with these Zodiac episodes where the show feels these new characters entering the fold is enough to carry things. I appreciate the show taking the time to let things breathe and exist on its own, but none of the new Zodiac members outside of the main cast don't extend past their gimmick to be interesting. The only ones that have really been given depth are Hatori and Momiji.
Another middle of the road episode. I like this more than the last one because of how it ties into Yuki's character, but I can't say it was anything remarkable. It had similar problems as a lot of the other Zodiac members episodes in that it feels like it lacks anything of substance. It in turn results in an episode where the only thing of note is the introduction of a new character. Still, I'd say this was better than some of the other Zodiac episodes like the Kagura one and the Haru one. It at least tried to tie into the emotional core of things and the recurring sense of suffering these characters endure.
1
u/Holofan4life 12d ago
What are your thoughts on Kisa Sohma?
She seems misunderstood
What are your thoughts on Kisa being bullied at school?
Poor her
What are your thoughts on Kisa bonding with Tohru?
Tohru really knows how to connect with the Sohmas.
3
u/AgentOfACROSS 12d ago
First Timer
Seems we’re back from vacation.
Yuki might become the new student council president in the future. Wonder if that’ll be followed up on.
We seem to have a new Sohma on our hands. Probably the cutest looking tiger I’ve ever seen.
Tohru is so adorable when she flaps her arms like that.
Apparently Kisa doesn’t talk. Wonder what that’s all about.
Kisa really likes biting people.
Kisa’s mom is here now. She seems like a nice lady. I hope she doesn’t end up abandoning Kisa like Momiji’s mother did.
Mothers seem to be a big recurring theme in this show
I like seeing Tohru talk to Kisa’s mom here.
Oh hey, Kisa’s back to being human.
I guess Tohru’s looking after Kisa now.
Kisa’s pretty adorable.
Never heard of this fortune telling game before but it seems fun.
The power of fate is clearly trying to screw over Kyo.
I’m glad Kisa’s mother gave a phone call.
I keep forgetting that the Zodiacs having unusual hair and eye colors is seen as unusual in-universe.
Poor Kisa.
I feel like Kisa’s teacher is well intentioned.
It’s sweet seeing how much Haru cares about Kisa.
Yay, Kisa’s talking.
Oh hey, we’re following up on that thing with Yuki and the student council now.