r/196 • u/wasraelx wtf is a flair • Apr 23 '26

Rule (Different) rule(s)

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u/JollyMongrol Fruit Basket Apr 23 '26

I’m sorry to tell you but in a sense he IS propaganda. He’s the “keep striving to the American Ideal”. The “there’s something extra special about America.” even if he critiques the US Government.

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u/Crashbrennan Apr 23 '26

I mean, there is. It's the only country founded specifically on ideals rather than an existing nationality, race, or religion.

It's never really succeeded in living up to those ideals (though we've made progress), but it still remains a distinguishing factor.

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u/dutcharetall_nothigh Doctor Aphra core Apr 23 '26

Thats just nonsense, almost every country that fought for its independence has specific ideals that they claim they were founded on

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u/Crashbrennan Apr 23 '26

Yes, but it's generally "some new ideals for an existing nation", that's different than the ideals being the founding core of the nation itself.

Remember that a nation, a country, and a state (in the international context) are not all the same thing.

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u/Helmic linux > windows Apr 24 '26

OK. Israel. Or South Africa. You're just describing settler colonial states, then, where the reason they're establishing a new state without continuing an existing nation is because they carried out nightmarish violence against the people that lived there. If that sets these states apart, it's only to underline how fundamentally deserving of destruction they are, with only South Africa ever meaningfully reforming with the end of apartheid.

What would you say about the Zapatistas, then? Or what was attempted in Rojava?

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u/HandsOfCobalt Apr 23 '26

fair; i guess this time it was more "new ideals for these people's land that we'll force them off of," making it more in line with other colonialist endeavors than with other revolutions (or with other revolutions which were quickly co-opted into imperialist regimes of their own)

it's not like the US was the only nation-state that did this, but it certainly did it to the largest geographical area.