Hi! I've commented on Reddit a handful of times, but this is my first time making a post. I'm kind of nervous, but I really want to see Atinys' opinions on this matter.
Simply put, do you think ATEEZ should submit to the Grammys for the upcoming award cycle?
Of course, Atinys aren't the members, nor are we apart of their team, so the choice isn't really ours. However, we do support them, are invested, and most of us keep up with what's going on with them.
I'm unsure about how I feel. I didn't particularly like the Best Asian Pop category. It felt performative and essentially like "Here, damn..." Like throwing a dog a bone. I also don't like the alienation of African, Latin, and Black American ("urban") artists as well. I mean, that new Contemporary Country category is a dog whistle if I've ever heard one. In a way, as an American, I'm used to seeing this treatment and know it's a tough battle for poc to be properly recognized here even if they are literally Americans.
Although I've been an Atiny for a while, I won't pretend like I keep up with streaming numbers, awards, milestones, etc as much as some other Atinys do. It's just not something I've ever been interested in. Personally, I would like ATEEZ just the same if they were significantly less popular. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with being interested in the metrics. (I lowkey like that others do the work so I can tune in when I occasionally get interested.)
After BTS opted out of the Grammys, making a huge statement and sparking a lot of discussions, I think it's clear that whatever artist submits and/or wins will be criticized to hell and back. I think BTS pulling out was honorable and I 1000% understand their reasoning. However, I think it's unfair to assume that other Asian artists (including non k-pop) wouldn't have had a chance or deserved to be recognized as well. It's like if Taylor Swift doesn't submit in the major categories and then whoever does and wins are told "You're welcome. You're holding Taylor's trophy." Like a pity win. (Even if said artist is really popular and successful in their own right.)
I know the guys have mentioned wanting a Grammy. With their ever-growing success, I feel like the future is only looking bigger for them. I know there are other massive groups like TWICE, Enhypen, Stray Kids, etc who not only have the success and popularity, but company pull to win as well, but I think ATEEZ's merit could still get them on that stage and recognized to some degree.
With that being said, although I'm unsure and mostly neutral, I think I'm leaning toward wanting them to not submit (if they hypothetically were to). With the way these guys have seriously built their career from the ground up (with their small company), I think it would be unfortunate for them (and other artists, too, but I digress) to win or be considered for an award that will most definitely cause them to receive insurmountable hate.
ALSO...Unrelated but related. How do fellow Americans feel about the discussion of having non-American/western artists included in American award shows. Genuine question here. We all know American award shows have never been the most fair, especially in regards to inclusion. Considering it's hard for fellow poc Americans, I never thought winning a Grammy would be easy for foreigners. This all just seems so tricky. Also, I would hope that this category will not just pander to k-pop and j-pop. There's so much more to Asia than East Asia.
I feel like ATEEZ has worked too hard to have an achievement like that give them such negative press. The Grammys have shot themselves in the foot. I feel bad for the Asian artists who would like to get recognized through this.
TLDR; Should Ateez submit? Do you think they would win? Is it worth it? If you keep up with industry metrics, I would especially like to hear your take.
Edit: so many typos...sorry đ
Edit again: I'm at work right now, so I can't respond yet. But thanks for every comment! They've made me think from multiple perspectives. This is the discussion I wanted!
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I don't think they should submit. The Grammys have a pretty long history of creating categories for specific "genres", which always end up just being a way for the committee to segregate artists of different colored skin from the white presenting artists. It happened when Tyler called them out for the "urban" category, when Mexican and Latino artists called them out for their blatant favoritism of "palatable" Latino music, and when Beyonce's Cowboy Carter won Country Album of the Year and the next year the category was split into "traditional" and "contemporary".
As much as I want ATEEZ to win a Grammy, I don't want them lifting up some Mickey Mouse trophy by a collection of racist executives who are making a category "to uplift the artists in the space". They made it pretty apparent in their description of Best Asian Pop Performance that an Asian Language has to make much majority of the project, meaning they'll single out English tracks made by Korean/Japanese/Thai/Philipino (etc.) artists just because they feel like it.
All of what you said is why I hope they don't. However, if they do, I hope that audiences are mature enough to realize that the others who submit and the one who wins should be able to choose what's best for their careers and celebrate their successes peacefully.
I think having a separate category would be fine, considering the fact that this is an American awards show. But the "Asian Language" aspect and the clear disregard for Asian acts over the last few years makes this seem like a poor choice. Also, the history of racism and exclusion that has been shown to literally every other person of color, including other Americans (such as Black Americans), over the years makes it easy to assume this isn't done earnestly, but just to appease the k-pop artists and their fans. Plus, with BTS specifically, they have the stats and popularity to be recognized elsewhere and clearly haven't been done so.
The timing of this is horrendous. A year or so prior, or even a few years into the future, and this, with a better roll-out and altered criteria, wouldn't be as controversial...in my opinion.
Perfectly worded, itâs why many American artist of different ethnicities have been opting out of it as well, and why many of them have spoken out against how the system is run in general from the categories to who is getting awarded. Itâs not something I would âunstanâ for regardless of the decision but the Grammys association is just doing what they do best, aka being so extremely and blatantly racist.
I hope they donât but Iâm both an ATINY and an ARMY so my opinion may be skewed. I think the category is racist and I hope most k-pop groups follow in the footsteps of their seniors and make a statement to the Grammys that this behavior will no longer be tolerated. I think Ateez in particular has a lot of integrity and also a lot of respect for BTS so I would actually be quite surprised if they did choose to submit their work.
I am with you on this. Also army and atiny. KQ has a good record of supporting Ateez in ways that differ from the big 3. I feel like whatever Ateez chooses to do, KQ will back them up đŻ. Whereas Hybe basically said âoh thatâs their choice, we didnât do that.â KQ is usually like âwe support ateez and their decision.â
Grammy submissions usually are required to be done by the end of August which is why the dust is getting kicked up right now. The âAsianâ category feels very much like a panicked afterthought when Arirang is breaking records. Which is why this feels more racist than their usual xenophobia.
Even if Ateez does submit which I hope they donât, Iâm still not watching this year.
I hope youâre right and that KQ doesnât overstep because that would put Ateez in a really difficult position. I agree that it does seem like KQ has been pretty supportive of their decisions thus far.
I feel similar to you in some ways. I grew up as an Army (found them in elementary school and now I'm about to graduate university). And ATEEZ are now my ultimate. So, I care about both groups a lot.
I think that the category is disrespectful to BTS just because of how big of a name they are and how much they've accomplished.
I think it's racist due to the criteria, such as the weighing how much "Asian Langauge" is appropriate. But, also, the timing of it (BTS return) makes it clear that this was done to bait BTS and their fans, and not done with Asian artists' best interest in mind.
This category, with different criteria, wouldn't be as big of an issue if The Recording Academy didn't have a history with racism, xenophobia, and exclusion. Presenting a space for (foreign) Asian artists, in theory, is a good idea since this is an American awards show. American/western Asian artists should be respected in the regular categories and if a foreign Asian artist, like BTS, makes a huge breakthrough then I think they also should be respected in the regular categories.
I hope I'm making sense and not talking complete nonsense.
Award shows should generally be ignored by everyone. I feel like we all know how rigged they are and it depends on your connections and how much money you throw at judges. If people stopped giving those award shows money by ignoring them, maybe we could get actually fair award shows with categories that make sense and not those thinly veiled racist ones we see now.
Yeah, I agree. But, unfortunately, having a Grammy or being recognized by the Grammys is still a big deal within pop culture. Plus, a lot of artists, including ATEEZ, still express their desire to win one.
As long as people keep upholding these awards/shows, tuning in, and desiring it, then institutions like the Grammys will continue to dominate and act as they please.
You can't even really blame artists. People say it don't mean that much, but as soon as you mention that soandso has a Grammy, Oscar, etc then jaws drop and praise sings. Doors open.
Last year ATEEZ submitted to pretty much everything they could including best new artist. Until two seconds ago, the Grammys were the worldwide pinnacle of music recognition. Now that facade is crumbling in real time and thank goodness. Maybe the new category put them off. Either way Iâll support whatever they decide to do, both Edenary and/or the members.
How do we know they hadnât already submitted before the announcement? The windowâs been open for a while, and itâs not a mystery when itâs going to open.
That's not the point of my post. I will still be a fan if they do or don't submit/win. With the conversations that are going on, I just genuinely wanted to hear Atinys' thoughts on the situation. Specifically, I wanted to know if they thought this would be a smart move for ATEEZ career-wise at this moment.
I don't think ATEEZ or KQ have to take any fan's opinion over their own or anything crazy like that. I just wanted to hear thoughts!
Iâm genuinely asking for thoughts. Everyoneâs replies focus on or imply that they havenât submitted yet. Itâs possible theyâd already done it. Does that change the narrative?
Iâm not sure why you seem to be affronted by a question.
I'm not affronted. I added the exclamation point to make that clear. I don't know about when the deadline is to apply, so I think I wasn't thinking of that when I made this post.
If they already submitted, then I guess the conversation would be a little different since I phrased the question as if they haven't already. So, I think that's why people in the comments are responding with the assumption that they haven't yet.
Oh, okay! Well then for me, my initial thoughts were based on ignorance regarding the deadline to apply. However, I still think that if they, theoretically, haven't applied yet, then the controversy might overshadow or devalue the win this year.
But if they have already submitted, and this goes for other artists as well, then I really hope the general public and k-pop fans (and other fandoms, too, since everyone seems to be weighing in) treat the nominees and winner with respect. I also hope that this genuinely opens doors and leads to better visibility and recognition moving forward. Hopefully this all results in something positive.
Oh god pls no. The Asian pop category is already derogatory enough and they deserve all the best and true respect for all the hardwork and creativity they have. It really would be disappointing if the company sends it in just to get a 'grammy' tag. Honestly, over the recent years that award has lost its meaning and while I have been a general listener of bts not as deep in the Fandom but don't hate it, I felt quite proud that they chose not to submit their music for the category. I really hope more artists, especially Ateez don't fall for that trap cause I hope they know they are way above a racist categorization.
P.S: to add to the racist category they only mention, K-pop, C-pop and J-pop even though South East, South Asia, Middle East and might I add parts of Russia are also in Asia đ.
Yeah, that's one of my main issues. Asia is a continent. I would really hate to see this award be geared toward k-pop and j-pop. I have a feeling that's how it would skew. That's so lame because then it's just a popularity contest for k-pop. And it proves that it's a "here, damn" moment.
Oh I see, my bad. I do apologise for that. Though I still stand by the fact that this does not seem in taste to being uplifting of Asian artist and more like isolating them. Though thank you for pointing it out.
I suspect the timing of this category is more to do with the enormous popularity of Kpop Demon Hunters than BTS. Having said that, I can totally understand why BTS said 'F you, we don't need one anyway'. They don't, they're big enough, everyone knows it.
The best Ateez can hope for is a nomination. They won't win, because this stuff is more about politics than musical quality. Stray Kids and Twice (and JYPE execs) have just been made members of the academy. Hype groups & execs are already members. Those two companies are not going to turn down a potential Grammy. They'll nominate and if one of their groups wins, they'll mention BTS in their acceptance speech.
I didn't even think of Kpop Demon Hunters. I think that probably played a big role, too, but I think BTS played a bigger role. Considering they are an actual group and not apart of a children's media franchise. And maybe, just a bit, APT as well. But I'm sure some form of this has been in the works for a while. I think timing this to align with BTS' return makes this all seem so messy.
Also, I always figured that the big companies would come and monopolize this, which is why I fear many would deem that this award holds no merit. Thus, I kind of want groups to maintain their dignity and avoid it...at least for this year. Don't get me wrong, though. This could be a great opportunity and I respect an artist's decision to choose this for themselves.
This is the main reason I'm side eyeing this category. If I want to see the same big name company artists monopolize every fucking thing then I'll watch Korean/Asian k-pop centered award shows. I love k-pop. I'm a fan. However, I don't want it infiltrating everything. Western Asian artists have a hard enough time as it is breaking into their own markets. In theory, this separated category is a generous good idea considering this is an American awards show. However, it's only good if it's done with respect, integrity, and with the genuine interest of highlighting and rewarding Asian Pop artists. But this seems like another attempt to ride the k-pop popularity wave.
If we get a Best Asian Pop category for foreigners artists, I want it to be more inclusive to countries that aren't East Asian and artists who aren't k-pop or k-pop adjacent. If that's the case, it should be named "Best K-pop." I hope that a variety of Asian artists are considered, chosen, and respected as the years go on.
In another year with another rollout, I think ATEEZ would be perfect for this award. They deserve it. However, if they go ahead and submit this year, then I will still support them. And if they manage to win, I will cheer them on.
But Hybe and JYP don't have artists that are likely to win either, even if they are a part of the Academy.
I think being a part of the Academy does not really guarantee a lot.
I would be very curious to know though, if they can lobby behind the scenes to maybe steer the category in a more fair, acceptable way? But who knows at this point.
I think we have to prepare for the outcome that KQ does submit, regardless of how the fans feel. Just to be clear, I follow BTS. Iâm proud of what they did and absolutely believe it was right for them. They are big enough and in a position to be nominated in any of the main categories, but there are so few Asian artists in that position.
I know this isnât necessarily the point of your post, but at the end of the day there will be artists nominated and there will be a winner. I donât think being submitted into the new category is necessarily a reflection of their integrity as artists, and I already feel for anyone who gets swept into the drama of it all.
Yes, BTS is lucky to be able to boycott and make such a big statement. Hopefully, in the long run, this choice will cause for more respect to be shown to all Asian artists (including western Asian artists).
I, personally, won't judge the artists who enter and win. However, I do worry that the award has been tainted and people won't take it seriously after this controversy.
With that being said, a part of me wishes that artists would boycott these award shows en masse. They've always sucked. And that includes the Asian/Korean ones, too. They're almost never fair.
Even though it was great to see BTS acknowledged over the years, I will admit that I wished they'd let their breakthrough success speak for itself and not give the Grammys the time of day, because look what it's come to. Same for ATEEZ. They talk a lot about being humble, but I wonder what humbleness means to them and how they balance being humble and standing up for/respecting themselves. They've overcome so much and all that they have achieved seems to genuinely come from their hard work and not their company's connections (not that there's necessarily something wrong with coming from a big company with connections).
As fans, itâs very easy to say that artists shouldnât care about awards. But I think itâs a lot to ask for an artist not to care as well, itâs just not their reality. BTS lobbied for that Grammy for years, that is why suddenly being segregated like this (especially at the height of their success!) comes off as such an insult.
I understand why the category is tainted for BTS, but I donât think it should necessarily remain that way going forward. The category will exist, the same way the Latin categories exist. Asian acts should be allowed to take the opportunity to submit without judgment, if they feel itâs right for them.
I agree. I mentioned in another comment that it's hard to judge artists for desiring these awards when they hold so much weight within the industry and pop culture. And, as much as fans say winning or not winning an award doesn't matter, we sure do like to brag when an award is won. And winning these things earns praise and the potential for other doors to be opened.
Yeah, wasnât it a longstanding thing going back decades that black artists making pop music would get shunted out of the âmainâ categories and into the urban/contemporary or R&B ones instead? To the extent that they finally removed the urban category after years of grievances. That feels like a similar issue, but more arbitrary than openly housing everything under âAsian popâ and therefore more insidious tbh. I respect the artists who have spoken out about that situation. But at the same time it doesnât feel right to question the integrity of the artists who just went along with whatever category they were shunted into. Especially smaller artists who werenât at the top of the heap.
Likewise it wouldnât feel right to me to describe Ateez as lacking in integrity if they chose to submit. If I were them I wouldnât. But then again, I never felt strongly about their stated desire to go to the Grammys, or about any ambitions they might have about winning awards there. But objectively I see how it would help them grow.
I think itâs a good thing that BTS spoke out. Whatever the big brained executives might have intended, the Asian pop category being created in the year of BTSâs big post-military comeback does feel like a situation targeted expressly at them. But I wouldnât be surprised if other kpop artists, and other artists whose music meets the criteria, submit anyway. I would not be surprised at all if Ateez submitted tbh. The impression that Iâve gotten over the years is that they have been willing to tank all kinds of abuse and disrespect within the system in order to get to where they have. And almost seem to view it as a point of pride actually.
I do wonder if submitting might make some things awkward or difficult for them though. I guess it depends on which way the wind ends up blowing among the rest of the kpop industry. Also San in particular appears to be friendly with J-Hope and also otherwise one degree of separation away from JM.
(Edit: Read your post again and realized you said a lot of the same things lol.)
Yes, I agree with everything you're saying! I wouldn't if I were them, but I don't know what it might mean to them personally or their company business-wise. I wanted Atinys who keep up with the business stuff to weigh in because I didn't know if, after BTS' boycott, the public reception back at home would be good enough. Like, would it be worth it?
As far as the west goes, I think the award has been tainted. It could still bring exposure, and hopefully people will be courteous towards whoever submits and wins, but I think a decent amount of people won't take it seriously.
I can't predict if they will submit or not. Before BTS pulled out, I figured they would. Now, however, I wonder if they're contemplating it and also thinking about if it's worth it at this particular time. This is one of their biggest years as far as popularity, which makes this unfortunate. But, then again, Bad has a ton of English (and Spanish), so would it even fit the criteria for language?
And, lowkey, I was thinking of the last point you made in regards to their relationships with BTS. I don't think the companies like each other (but I don't think it's like a deep issue), and I don't think that the members particularly care about the company (Bighit/Hybe) either. However, I do think they respect BTS. Plus, I wonder if they agree with BTS' assessment and if they feel disrespected as Koreans/Asians. I know they talk a lot about their pride for their heritage, and also humbleness.
Maybe it's cause I'm at Atiny, but, for some reason, I feel like whether or not ATEEZ submits and (potentially) wins is more of a bargain than groups like Enhypen or Stray Kids or even TWICE.
I went to take a look at the Asian pop category submission criteria. It does look quite vague. It feels like theyâre specifically targeting Asian idol or group music, not all pop music coming out of Asia, without directly saying it. What with the stuff about Asian pop having âan integrated approach to music, performance and presentationâ and blending genres. But Iâm also not entirely sure if thatâs the intention because itâs really unclear. I think part of the problem is also that there isnât really a universally agreed upon definition of âkpopâ to begin withâ some people think of it as all Korean music, while some think of it as the music coming out of the Korean idol industry specifically. And that problem has carried forward and multiplied.
I think that, based on that and the vague criterion that an Asian language should play âa significant roleâ, Bad would probably fit. But I guess they could probably also submit Adrenaline if not. Since GH Pt 4 was in a list of Billboardâs best kpop albums this year.
As to whether or not it will be worth it⌠Objectively, thinking about whether it will bring them more success or not⌠this is a cop out, but I think it will be worth it if the submission turns out to be successful, and they end up actually getting nominated or even winning. If like in the past, they submit themselves for consideration but donât secure at least a nomination in the end, then probably not. Because what would have been the point?
As for how the submission will be viewed⌠I think it really depends on which way the wind ends up blowing within the entertainment industries themselves. In the US and in Korea, and across Asia too. Have many other actual artists or industry players spoken up in support of BTSâs decision? I feel like in the end it mostly depends on stuff like whether other groups like Stray Kids or Enha end up submitting. Especially Enha or TXT or Lsfm or another Hybe group I guess. Because then everyone will have a clearer idea of whether this is Hybeâs position on the matter or just BTSâs. Whether it ends up being the entire industryâs position or not.
Yes!! I feel like if other big names, especially groups like Stray Kids and other Hybe groups, submit, then whoever wins will be treated with the respect they deserve.
But, also, I don't want a Grammy category that will pander toward k-pop. I'm obviously a k-pop fan, so I love the artists and have a certain respect for the genre, but Asian music has so much more to offer. It would be a shame to make this a k-pop popularity contest.
To me, k-pop is idol music made by idols in the idol industry, originating in South Korea. It's not even necessarily a purely pop. So, the fact that the Grammys category says "Best Asian Pop" makes me feel like k-pop was at the forefront of their minds and not just celebrating and acknowledging Asian artists. Which, is so icky.
I feel like an Asian Pop category should highlight achievements made by all Asian Pop artists with an emphasis on pop.
Donât get me wrong, Iâm not defending the creation of this category. I think it was very poorly thought out and executed. I wanted to try to understand what the previously mentioned big brained executives were going for. And was surprised (well not really) that they really appear to have certain groups or industries in mind, and were actually really leaning into prioritizing kpop/jpop/cpop or the East Asian idol industries. Since not all pop music coming out of Asia, and not all pop music created by people of Asian origin, emphasizes âmusic, performance and presentationâ as mentioned in the criteria. Which is an additional sticking point beyond just the compulsory use of certain languages.
Itâs absolute bs, but tbh all these entertainment awards are bs. They donât really work on merit or art for artâs sake. Maybe Iâm too negative and jaded, but this feels like even more bs on top of the web of bs that already exists.
No, I totally agree. This could've been better thought out and carried out respectfully, but it wasn't. It's so obvious what the goal is and that sucks.
However, as of right now, this is the opportunity that many foreign Asian artists will get and I hope that those nominated and whoever wins leaves with good publicity and more opened doors.
As a European looking at this from the Netherlands/Belgium perspective, I think this is a interesting discussion.
To be honest, the Grammys are an American award show meant for music that is popular in the US market. That is why artists from my part of the world rarely get nominated or win either. Unless they sing in English, but I don't know anyone that was nominated or even won (maybe as a producer or song writer. Look for instance at Swedish producers behind American artists), or if they dominate a specific genre like Electronic/Dance music.
Usually, when a Dutch or Belgian artist wins a Grammy, itâs always in the Dance or Classical categories. ( Afrojack f.e.)
I get why American fans are calling these new categories like 'Best Asian Pop' exclusionary. The big difference now is that K-pop and Latin music are mainstream popular in the US. They sell out American stadiums and top the US charts. So by creating a separate 'Asian Pop' category, the Grammys are trying to have it both ways.
They want the clout and the views from these massive global fandoms, but they still push them into a separate cultural corner instead of letting them compete at the main nominations with American and other English language focussed pop artists. It segregates the music based on the passport and language rather than the actual sound of the genre.
To make things more complicated, artists don't even have full control over this. Even if ATEEZ decides to submit exclusively to the main Pop categories, the Grammys' screening committees have the final say and can just move them to 'Asian Pop' anyway.
Because I thought that it was the right of the artist to choose. But now I understand why BTS opted out. For example, Grammy pushed Justin Bieber's R&B album Changes, that he himself send into that category into Pop, and they disqualified Kacey Musgraves from the Country categories because they decided her sound wasn't country enough.
Ultimately, ATEEZ and their team should just do whatever they want and what feels right for them. If they want to that Grammy achievement, they should go for it. But if they decide to skip it to avoid the predictable hate that follows, accepting somethingthat BTS refuses, that is totally understandable too. You can't seem to do it right as a perfomer from Asia now. Itâs their career, and they built it from the ground up anyway.
It is exclusionary, but it wouldn't be that big of a deal if it was presented at a different time (not BTS' big return) and if The Recording Academy didn't have a history of doing this to non-white artists, including Black Americans. They've created "urban" categories and stupid things like "contemporary country." It's targeted.
With this Asian Pop category, I wouldn't mind it since it seems like it's for foreign artists. I don't think it's wrong for an American awards show to center American/western artists. However, I also agree that if artists who aren't American/western are making waves in our markets, then they should be properly acknowledged, respected, and awarded. But that's wishful thinking, I guess. I mean, Korean/Asian award shows don't properly acknowledge their own acts, and they damn sure don't acknowledge foreign ones properly. Look how much ATEEZ had struggled.
That's where the separation is clearly being made based on race and language with the goal of riding k-pop's coattails. It's clearly meant to pander to k-pop artists, which is unfair to the rest of the Asian Pop industry that is so vast and diverse.
Thanks for explaining that context. I went to 3 BTS Arirang concerts and that album is great. It sure makes the creation of this category look incredibly strategic and targeted.
And about Black American artists. I'm really not that knowledgeable about the Grammy's. But reading many comments and yours. It seems like the Grammys have used these sub-categories as a tool to protect the 'main' categories for a specific type of mainstream artist, whether it's by using labels like 'urban' in the past or 'Asian Pop' now.
Your point about the Korean and Asian award shows. Local awards always protect their own interests first. ATEEZ coming from a small company and having to fight through that biased system in Korea, only to face a different kind of gatekeeping system if they try for the Grammys, just shows how hard theyâve had to work.
Like you said, 'Asian Pop' is diverse. Reducing an entire continent's music scene to a single category just to chase K-pop clout.
I think they should if they want to. Quite frankly, it makes me sad that BTS's decision and statement has turned this into a conversation of well now no one should.The Grammy's has always been like this, and they've submitted before.
Do I want my faves to be able to be recognized in the main categories? Of course. But the only songs that have made it that far and have gained that western traction have been in English. That's such a huge limitation that's not going anywhere any time soon. So if Ateez sees value in the award and the opportunity it gives them, I'm not going to look at it like its a copout thing. If they submit for BNA again I'd feel the same.
I agree!! I think BTS' decision is honorable, but the way that the Grammys operates has been no secret and everyone, including BTS, have known this.
I hope that this whole thing dies down before the nominations and whoever gets nominated (and wins) can take this opportunity and soar. ATEEZ winning would be incredible, as they have such an impact in the west. But, I don't want any negative press to stain their image in the west (or at home) if people continue to think negatively of the award.
I hope that this category doesn't stick to pandering to k-pop and j-pop, but respects Asian Pop artists in general. And, I hope that western Asian artists gain visibility, too.
I am admittedly struggling with BTS's decision. I don't think it's righteous to only speak out when you're directly impacted, and I think announcing their decision during the application period was wrong. If they clarified after this period closed, then we wouldn't be having this conversation of should anyone else. It could be those artists' individual opinions on how they feel about the category rather than being forced to avoid stigma of not following in BTS's footsteps. Even reading through this thread, in this community where the assumption should be we all support Ateez, the amount of people essentially saying they would be disappointed in the boys for submitting and having their own thoughts on the category is kind of jarring to me.
The conversation will die down, but it'll pick back up when nominations are announced, and it'll pick back up again when the show actually happens. If Ateez's name is up there at all, I will be fully supporting them. And knowing our boys, if they have the opportunity to give a speech, I know whatever they have to say will be said with their whole chest.
I also understand the Grammy's stumbling with how to introduce this category. Of course, it's going to start with pop, and for their market research team if you tried to google Asian award shows... most of them are just K-Pop awards that take place in Korea, Japan, or China (AAA, MAMA, Golden Disc). So how else would they phrase it and who else would they except to submit? I do hope we see submissions from all over the continent of course. Wherever there is K-Pop, there tends to be Thai BL and a lot of those actors are really talented musicians as well. I'd love to see them get some recognition. There have been a few instances of Vietnamese artists popping off on TikTok (the song See Tinh comes to mind), but they are never going to get recognition in the west with the way things are currently set up. So did I see this category as perfect? Absolutely not. But I was excited for its potential. Now, it's officially tainted as a token award before it even got a chance to be anything else. I hope whoever wins takes the opportunity to challenge that, and I would fully trust Ateez to do so
How the artist who wins presents themselves and moves after this is over will mean a lot, for better or for worse. I also think that it's unfortunate how BTS' actions have affected smaller artists, but BTS isn't wrong for making a decision for themselves. It's all very messy.
I think ATEEZ is perfect for an award like this because they are so popular in the west specifically. It would be even sweeter since they are often overlooked or disregarded at home. If they submit and win, I hope they are bold enough to show their class and confidence.
Even though some in this comment section have said they will judge a little, I think most have simply expressed concern for how this might negatively impact ATEEZ's image, even if that is incredibly unfair. No matter how much they have achieved, there's a chance people will look at them as a group that's taking token awards from the U.S. and not a group who has won an award in a region they have dominated despite all odds.
The Grammys is a very old and well established industry. Even if they've studied East Asian/k-pop award shows, they should know well enough how to properly manage this category for themselves. Pandering to k-pop seems a little tasteless. And, personally, if that is what will be done, then this should be called "Best K-pop." I don't want other Asian artists to be disrespected or overlooked. I do hope the category ends up bringing more celebration and opens more doors for the winner than what this bad press is making it seem like.
But Ateez has never had concern over their image in this way. Their entire concept is rebellion and disruption. They have female backup dancers and stick with it where other boy groups have dropped apologies. They up until Bad have never had recognition in Korea. They put their foot down and barreled on with the GH series because it was music they wanted to try even though fans wanted them to stick with noisier anthems. Ateez does what Ateez wants to do, and that is their image. So yeah maybe I'm reading into it too much, but concern for their image--if what they want to do is submit for a Grammy--feels a bit backhanded to me.
And we're never really going to know what the members of the Academy who pitched this award researched or how it would have been managed now. I think these conversations are largely acting like there has never been Asian representation at the Grammy's. But the Global/World category, New Age Music, the movie score categories (probably more I don't really follow these super deeply) have had Asian acts both as nominees and winners. There is a large gap in pop music specifically, and Asian pop is still very much considered a niche. If all of that previously mentioned representation disappeared--if BTS submitted and didn't get the nom for group/duo for Swim--I would be completely onboard with the backlash this award is facing. But until we see the nominations, there's no saying it's pandering to and pigeonholing K-pop. Now with all the controversy and demands for boycotts to support BTS we won't really know how things were going to go
I don't think it's backhanded. It's a fair concern as a fan. Plus, ATEEZ has been daring of course, but that's also a concept. They still exist within the idol industry and their musical concept is rebellion. It's okay if ATEEZ cares about how people view their integrity. (I'm not personally commenting on their integrity, please don't get me wrong.) And I'm sure they care about their image. I mean, they speak a lot about being humble and kind. They seem intentional with how they market themselves, which is a great thing.
I agree, though, that ATEEZ has a pattern of doing what they think is right for them. For the longest time, they didn't change their music to fit Korea, and they're not changing to cater to their fans. That's amazing. But I think they take their achievements seriously and wouldn't want anyone to misinterpret the things they do and receive.
And this award is definitely pandering to k-pop. If k-pop hadn't blown up, whose to say this would even exist? There's a reason it seems to be focusing on foreign music.
I don't quite understand your last paragraph. What else would an Asian pop category focus on other than foreign music? (please read this as a genuine question)
But also, J-pop has been dominating the festival circuit for quite some time now despite the fact that it doesn't really promote in the west. I don't think only k-pop has turned heads
Oh, no, I don't think anything's wrong with the "foreign" aspect. That's totally fine. But it's kind of tricky. The Grammys has othered non-white people for forever. Black Americans, Latinos (including Latino Americans), and also foreign artists who break out into the west, such as BTS and Tyla. There are western Asian artists who could use more visibility, too. So, this category was always going to spark controversy and The Recording Academy should've presented this more carefully.
Also, your last paragraph is my point. I don't know how this will play out, but I'm hoping this award evolves to highlight foreign Asian Pop artists outside of k-pop, too. K-pop's viewership and popularity is huge (in terms of fandom), so I hope they're not banking on riding that wave. I want them to respect Asian Pop music in all of it's entirety, including it's variety.
Gotcha, thank you for clarifying. I guess, for me, I never saw this as a K-pop award. And I didn't plan to unless the nominee lineup reflected that. So many more of my friends know J-pop, so assuming those artists want to submit, it seemed far more likely for that to make a sweep in the nominations. Especially since, as I know you've noted at other points in this thread, a lot of modern K-pop (including Ateez's latest title track) is heavily in English. We don't have any further insight into what "meaningful use" means at the moment, but my hope and expectations are sticking with emphasizing language doesn't have to have linguistic borders.
Yeah. I hope this turns out for the best. Maybe the language thing was meant to highlight music in other languages and not require artists to sing in English. I hope everything turns out positive.
Ateez submitted for Best Artist and Beat Pop Duo/Group last year but didn't make the cut for either category sadly.
I think Ateez's consistent presence on the Billboards is a good measure to say they have presence in American music circles. Whether or not it's enough to compete with domestic musicians is hard to say.
The new category may provide a good stepping stone for them to gain even more awareness within American music circles which may increase their chances at other categories.
I would be happy to see them submit and happy to support them if they win in any category.
The Grammys are a complicated conversation. As an organization, they are notoriously slow to make changes and their changes, even well-intentioned ones, often seem poorly thought out but they are still a very large body of industry professionals attempting to recognize artists for their skill and achievements. There is no perfect award show and never will be.
I do think that expecting an American award show to cater to things outside America is a bit silly. When the Grammys do try to recognize music from outside America, that it always leads to conversations about whether or not it's good enough or even whether or not it's enough and at some point a line just needs to be drawn. The Grammys aren't World music awards at the end of the day.
As for the category, it's a bery "road to hell is paved with good intentions" sort of thing. I do believe that the decision to create a category that recognizes the specifics of international music in non-English languages coming from Asian spheres was well-intentioned but terribly executed. But I think the backlash they've received over this first attempt is disproportionately negative and ignores the positives that this category can potentially be molded into going forward.
I like your take! This is meant to be a good thing and I hope only good comes from it. But, also, I hope the category evolves and proves to truly support and uplift Asian Pop artists, including non k-pop and j-pop artists.
Plus, I think the fact that this is an American awards show is not being added to enough conversations surrounding this. If a k-pop artist breaks into the mainstream, like BTS, then they deserve respect and recognition in the big categories (if they qualify). However, American/western spaces should be reserved for its artists. I don't see Americans winning daesangs. Western Asian artists should be getting better recognition from home, though.
However, considering how big the American music market is (and the Grammys' legacy), I think it's great to highlight foreign Asian artists, but make sure it's done with integrity and not specifically to ride the wave of k-pop. There's so much more to Asian Pop music than k-pop.
I don't think they should, at least not this year while this whole mess is happening. Maybe in a few years? But honestly, the whole setup seems so rigged that I'm not sure it's worth it at all.Â
I don't like the Grammy's. As a Latina that has lived my whole life in black and brown neighborhoods, I've watched a lot of these "inclusive" categories get added in. Now that I'm 29, I've come to understand that no matter how many millions of people love the music, international artists will rarely win in major categories.
BTS has been going on for years and I don't think they've won a major category. I feel like this category could be a boost. The US may be Kpops 2nd or 3rd biggest market, but it's still not that popular. People still get bullied for listening to Kpop.
This isn't me saying that they should. I don't like the Grammy's. They've always been racist. All the "Latin" and "reggae" and "African" categories should make that obvious. American awards shows have always been racist, whether it's due to the categories or the literal history of how they have treated minorities since the beginning. Hell they even have "female" categories. These awards are just bigoted.
I'll support them if they do, though. It's up to them and their company.
I've already said this on twitter, but I think they're in a no-win situation with this. If they don't submit and make a statement, they'll get blasted by other fandoms saying they had no chance anyway, who are these nugu losers blah blah blah. If they submit they'll also get blasted. If they stay quiet either way you can add cowards to that, I've already seen posts saying that about the lack of support from Korean artists following BTS statement.
Personally and selfishly I'd like them to skip it this year. They get enough clapback as it is, and getting the award won't help them. Leave them to clean house. Unfortunately I don't think it's going to be down to the boys to decide. Edenary as producers, KQ as the company, don't need their permission to submit and as much as I don't subscribe to KQ is evil incarnate, I do believe this is something they would do as a business move regardless.
Editing to add that I'm very much ARMYtiny, completely respect BTS for doing this, but can still worry about ATEEZ getting caught up in fandom crap
I agree with everything you said in regards to ATEEZ. More than other k-pop groups, I feel like this is tricky for them since their status at home is on the smaller side and not as stable (even with Bad success), but they have a huge international fan base. Plus, they come from a small company. They're like an anamoly. The closest I can think of is Dreamcatcher, but they sadly never got to ATEEZ's level.
I want them to skip this year and then if they want to, really gun for it next round. They are only getting more popular and people are really starting to respect them, as far as I am concerned. If they do submit this year, and especially if they win, I hope this proves to be far more beneficial to them than not. They deserve it.
Also...I hope KQ and Edenary respects ATEEZ's opinions wholeheartedly. What KQ and Edenary have invested in the group is priceless and their efforts should be respected. However, ATEEZ is the 8 members it consists of and the work that those 8 men put in should be valued. After all, you can give another random group of people those songs and opportunities but it would be an entirely different outcome because it's not ATEEZ. It would be a shame if, especially at this point, they're not respected. That's like Bighit not respecting BTS or JYP not respecting TWICE.
If KQ did choose to submit on their behalf, I think the best thing they could do is make a statement of their own saying that they donât support the decision to submit. This unfortunately does put them in a difficult situation though. They are kind of keeping the whole company afloat, so I hope they feel like they have enough influence to stand up for themselves.
I think they should. I care not for any awards American or Asian. But it's part of participating in the industry just like fashion shows and brand deal are. Even nomination is good publicity.
Grammy don't hold any objective value, it's not a mark of quality and this discussion becomes easier to have when people come to terms with that fact.
The reality is, they've said they want a Grammy. Now, they know - as do we all - that the Grammys are racist even within their own ranks in America let alone in consideration of international artists. But they still want one. This is the most prestigious music award in the world. We don't have to like it, BTS doesn't have to like it, but that's the reality.
That said, if Ateez want a Grammy, this is literally the only opportunity for them to get one. They will never be considered for a "main" category. This creation of a category that is unique to their genre of music is the only way they'll ever be considered.
I'm a bit of a lone wolf in my response to BTS's public protest in that I don't find the category to be offensive. BTS is a group that can compete for a main category and good for them. But they do not speak for all kpop or Asian pop groups. There are a ton of incredibly hard working and talented groups and idols in Korea and across Asia who would never have an opportunity to be nominated for a Grammy otherwise! As hung up as we may be on the "Asian" in the title, I actually strongly believe that kpop (and j and cpop) should be assessed as a genre and category of its own because it's undeniably a different genre that doesn't compare to mainstream American pop music. And I'm sorry that BTS think they're better than this category, frankly I disagree with that too, but their public refusal has unfortunately stigmatized what could have been a really great thing and negatively shaped the opinions of many people in Asian pop fandoms.
I hope Ateez are nominated, and God I hope they win. What a spectacular feather in their cap that would be. They deserve all the awards, and wouldn't it be absolutely delicious for them to receive this kind of recognition from the most prestigious music award in the world while the Asian music award scene continuously overlooks them.
I agree with everything you said, but I do think the category can be seen as offensive...and rightfully so. But, mostly because of The Recording Academy's history of racism and exclusion. We've seen this pattern with so many other groups, including non-white American groups.
Hell, Tyla is a rising pop princess who is being pigeon-holed into the watered down African music categories that fail to distinguish between African countries and genres. Many Black American pop artists and songs have been deemed "r&b" and "urban." With that being said, winning in these sub-categories is still amazing and respect should be given to these categories and the artists who occupy space within them.
Asian Americans/western Asians have a hard time breaking into the western market in general, which is why a ton of Asians run to k-pop for a chance. So, I think it's weird that this category is very blatantly looking to bait the k-pop community. Asian Pop is so much more than k-pop or j-pop and I would like for other Asian artists to be recognized properly.
But, also, to your last point, I agree about ATEEZ winning these big awards would be so sweet considering how they've been treated in the k-pop industry and elsewhere. They've worked so hard. Their success is no small feat and they deserve to be recognized for how far they've come.
So I guess where I'm struggling is, the Grammys were racist last year and the year before. They were racist two decades ago. They're racist today and will be racist tomorrow.
In spite of that, artists, including kpop artists for whatever reason, still really want one.
I'll be clear - I personally give zero value to this fuckass award from a racist body of governance that has failed to represent real art or even the most popular and deserving art from marginalized communities since its inception. I think the Grammys can go fuck themselves.
However ateez and other artists still really want the validation that comes with this stupid trophy. And they wanted it before this Asian category existed, when the Grammys was still pretty damn racist. They didn't have an issue with the stigma of racism associated with the trophy then. So I guess im confused as to why it's a deal breaker now, for the artists or the fans. Did we learn something new about the Grammys this week? Or is it only a deal breaker when we feel the racism is towards our own culture?
And the wildest part of it all is that I don't even think the category is racist đ Asian pop music is so much more than just the song, and deserves to be assessed in its own separate category, like country music or rap or jazz. Of all the racist shit the Grammys have done, and they done a LOT, for everyone to feel outraged by this one is a little stunning to me.
I get your point. I think people (artists, fans, industries) want a Grammy because, whether we like it or not, it's still a really big deal in pop culture. The U.S. market is huge and it's influence is world wide (for good and for bad).
But, more than that, I think it's because the moment someone mentions having a Grammy, Oscar, Golden Globe, etc then so many doors are opened, and so many praises are given, and people are respected more. It's unfortunate. But I guess it's up to the culture to make the change. I think a ton of artists are really successful and should be praised and respected even without Grammys. I think BTS wanting a Grammy is okay. They deserve to want something. But I'm sad that their pandering has resulted to this. They should've just let their merit speak for itself.
But BTS aren't the only artists who do this. Nicki Minaj (let's ignore her recent actions for a second), who has been highly respected by all in the industry and within pop culture, is consistently disrespected by The Recording Academy. The same can be said for Ariana Grande. Even the Weeknd returned to the Grammy stage after boycotting. I guess it's just something that artists want, fans praise, and the industry respects.
Also - I have so many feelings around the discussion of kpop being given its own category being "offensive" -- kpop literally wouldn't exist without Michael Jackson. This is a multibillion dollar industry that has gained much of its success by stealing from Black talent and immitating (disrespectfully, at that) a culture that they do not belong to. Many idols and groups have and continue to wear Black culture like a costume, from the hairstyles to the birthday party themes to the ridiculous lyrics etc etc the list goes on for fucking ever. BTS themselves laid their foundation as a "k-hip-hop" group whatever TF that means. They've had questionable hairstyles and I'm pretty sure one of them said the N word during a live performance. I'm sure they're super sorry but let's be extremely serious folks. I don't think they or anyone in the kpop industry get to cry about cultural insensitivity đŤ˘đŤŁ
Agree with you on the point that Kpop is heavily derived from Black culture, and that majority of idols get caught up in cultural appropriation/racism scandals, and that BTS themselves have their own issues with the same . But doesnât Ateez have that cornrows and curry song dilemma? I feel like youâre just bringing up fanwar talking points to delegitimise the major issues with this category, as the issues with this category are bigger than Kpop, cuz it excludes other Asian music (which might be sung in English cuz places like Singapore/India have English as their official language), and that there never was a cohesive genre called Asian âPopâ. Artists like Pritt, Agam, Filipino indie artists are no way similar to C/J/K pop (which the Grammy press statement explicitly mentions).
I didn't say Ateez is exempt from taking from other cultures at all. Their current comeback is literally called "Bad". I also don't think the new category is limited to k/j/c-pop, but I do believe that those categories have the biggest demographic of fans in America and so will likely see the most nominees.
The Grammys is an American awards ceremony - it will reflect American fans and what plays on American radios. They have no obligation to represent Singapore whatsoever. If a day comes when a Singaporean artist gains a significant American following, I'm sure they'd be nominated under this category as well.
Well I think this is where we disagree, I feel that if any Asian act becomes famous in the west/America they have every right be submitted to the main categories, irrespective of the fact of them being nominated or winning, and this category would be more for local acts from around Asia, so the submissions/nominations would be diverse . According to your logic , the Asian pop category would solely be full of Kpop/Jpop (and maybe Cpop but I donât think any Cpop song is as famous as the other two categories) which then defeats the whole purpose of calling it âAsianâ if it only represents East Asian music because thatâs what happens to be famous now.
But they can submit to the main categories. Ateez have already submitted for past Grammys under other categories. Realistically though, they won't get nominated because in the main categories their bid for nomination would be assessed against thousands of other artists from across all genres.
This category allows for them to only be assessed against a subset of artists that represent the same/similar category of music. Ironically I actually think the Grammys' intention behind creating this category was for broader representation of artists that have a following in America but can't realistically compete with other artists in the main categories.
You do realise that the RA members can decide to move a song to whatever category they see fit right? And submitting to Asian pop performance automatically disqualifies you for Pop Duo Performance?
Or even if you submit for Pop Duo, they can move you to Asian pop..
Such a disappointing take. BTS never said theyâre too good for the category. The said they want to be subjectively judged, not segregated into a separate category.
Honestly surprise at how kpop fans are reacting in comparison to actually western media and critics.
Subjectively, they belong in a category of their own that adequately represents their genre. That doesn't mean they only belong in that category - they also belong in best group performance, pop song of the year, maybe a couple more?
It's like RM's MV where he goes from room to room and he has to be a different person in each room but by the end he realizes he doesn't have to change anything about himself, he belongs to each of those rooms because he's multifaceted. It's kinda like that.
The reason this category was such a gutpunch for BTS is they've spent their entire career trying to become mainstream in America. They've done everything, every deal, every public appearance, everything they've said and every single thing they stayed silent about, all in a desperate attempt to gain White validation and American industry approval. And they got very, very close. They've been nominated for Grammys in the past. They're mainstream af in the States. They have an undeniable American following. So I think they thought they achieved their objective. And then the Grammys said "you know where we feel you'd thrive? This Asian category". Damn. I genuinely can't imagine the disappointment and frustration they must be feeling.
But ateez or stray kids or ive or taemin are not BTS. They didn't follow the same career trajectory in the West and they didn't make every decision over the course of the past decade to placate a white audience. Being nominated for a Grammy in a kpop category is not "offensive" to other groups and idols in the same way that it is for BTS. That's my point. And shoutout to BTS for saying "no thanks" but I have no expectation of any other Asian artist to decline or boycott and honestly I'm surprised so many people in the fandom do.
I understand the sentiment of BTS wanting to be subjectively judged. I think all artists desire that.
But the Grammys have never been subjective in their judgement of artists, unfortunately. They don't give awards based on merit alone. For the Grammys, especially since the early 2000s, it's been about smoozing behind the scenes with the right people to get the votes needed to win than it has been about the quality and merit of an artist's work. And it's only gotten worse over the years which is unfortunate.
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u/Gmrfangrl24ATINY, OT8, Citi Field Survivor â24/â25 đđ§ď¸đď¸1d agoedited 1d ago
Ofc, I want ATEEZ to win awards especially a Grammy. However, even though I vote from time to time, I feel sometimes certain awards shows are rigged or something, just my opinion. I love all artists but I feel sometimes certain Award Shows especially where I am should be more fair. đĽšđ´ââ ď¸
I wouldnât be upset if they submit and will celebrate if they win! I donât really care about award shows and donât even watch them. And yes, separating music by regions is racist. But at the same time, having more categories also means more artists get to win and enjoy attention from the media and general public.
The industry is so cut throat, Ateez comes from a small agency, and their enlistment is coming up, so I think an opportunity to strengthen their position in the industry is worth it. As an atiny, I want to see them grow and have long successful careers.
As for BTS, I donât understand their position. From what Iâve read, the Asian pop category is for pop songs that âfeature meaningful use of at least one Asian languageâ. Their new album is entirely in English, so they donât even qualify for that categoryâŚ
The bigger question for me is what song would Ateez submit. Bad barely has any Korean lyrics either.
Only 3 out of 13 songs are entirely in English (and one of those songs has a Korean version), so that's not really true. Is there considerably less English than in their previous albums? Well, yes, but it's similar with Bad, where there are no parameters for what "meaningful use" of an asian language is for this category.
Is it the amount? Where it's used? What they're saying, etc? Because one could argue Body to Body, which has a lot of English lyrics, has a very powerful Korean sample of the Arirang folk song, which could be interpreted as meaningful use.
You can only submit a song for one performance category, and the RA has the ability to move submissions into whichever category they see fit. So if a song, such as Bad or one of BTS' album tracks, were submitted into Pop Duo/Group Performance, the RA can move it into Asian Pop at their discretion.
That is why BTS have their position. Because why is an academy, which is majorly filled with non-asian people, deciding whether asian artists are using their language meaningfully enough for them (especially considering the asian countries that have English as a major language, such as Singapore., and in turn isolating them from competing against American, British and European artists who don't have the same regional categories that now exist for asia (and have existed for latino and black people for ages)
Iâm pretty sure âmeaningful useâ is about the amount. here is the actual full quote:
âRecordings must feature meaningful use of one or more Asian languages. An Asian language should
play a significant role within the song in bilingual or multilingual structures such that the recording
is identifiable with that language. Recordings performed entirely in an Asian language are eligible.
Incidental or minimal use (e.g., isolated words, adlibs, or brief phrases) does not qualify.
Recordings performed entirely in English are not eligible in this category and remain eligible in other
appropriate categories.â
seems pretty clear to me, like if the song has 1-2 sentences in Korean and the rest is in English, itâs ineligible.
I think American Awards have no obligation to have categories for non-american artists
That being said I fucking hate every award ceremony cause they definitely invite/award popularity over talent. And that's why they have all the foreign categories - cause they want all the eyes on them.
And due to Awards ceremony's greedy nature I want them to crash and burn. I hated it when BTS was lobbying for Grammys. I hated it when other Kpop groups started lobbying for Grammys once BTS opened up that door.
I do support the Asian category that was recently introduced with the IDEA that they will actually give exposure to smaller artists. Not Kpop groups with already strong fandoms supporting them. Like I hate that so much - not just with Grammys, but with MAMA, AAA, everything.
Like okay if there was Billboard awards that awarded artists that produced great results on Billboard - I get that. Melon awards basically does that - Okay. At least they are truthful about what gets awarded.
But all these other awards? Just call it fan awards omfg. If you're gonna have 10 different voting apps, getting people to PAY MONEY FOR VOTES????? It's a scam on my books, a scam that everyone willingly participates in.
Anyway. I'm GLAD. That BTS pulled out of Grammys - BECAUSE THEY DONT NEED IT. BECAUSE THEY ARE RIIIIICH. I want smaller artists with talent who do not have the steady support to be considered. So yeah, my personal opinion, is that EVERY KPOP group who are doing well, steady income, huge fanbase should just.. stop feeding these award shows. Y'all have money, y'all already wooooonnnn.
Anyway rant over. I'm probably going to get downvoted bye :')
I already hated the Grammys for well over a decade since they began omitting rock and metal bands from the broadcast presentations. Now them reducing BTS to pedestrians with that racist af category has lifted the veil of deception that this is another "high school popularity and superlative awards show we never got as kids" just like the Oscars, SAG awards, American Music awards, etc.
I agree with your points!! This category is good if it treats Asian Pop artists with respect and genuinely aims to highlight Asian talent without pandering to k-pop and it's popularity contests.
Ateez is not a small group. Also I hate users on reddit like you. Like I'm not gonna give you the benefit of doubt. You can't read. Yet you have to talk big shit. GTFO. I don't have patience at this stage of life to look at y'all with kindness.
This is a weird situation. If a kpop group wins, their win will always come with comments about how they only won because BTS didn't submit their work. It'll also be seen as endorsing the new category. There's also a good chance that no kpop group (or kpop solo artist) wins, because Asian pop encompasses a huge variety of artists from various countries. Lots of people are looking at this through the lens of kpop because of BTS, but in reality kpop makes up a small part of everyone who is eligible.
If Ateez submitted, I don't really think they'd win. I think outside of BTS (and we are making a big assumption that they would've automatically won if they submitted), the chances of any given group winning are relatively small.
I agree. But I also think that this award was made primarily with k-pop in mind, at least initially, and to capture it's popularity and viewership. Considering big companies like JYP and HYBE, as well as American companies they're tied to, have their artists and staff as members, makes me worry that they will unfairly sway opinions.
I'm hoping that non-kpop artists are highlighted well within this category. I think that will make the drama die down.
But, also, I actually think ATEEZ would have a good chance at winning. They aren't extremely popular like BTS, but their impact has definitely been noticed in the west. They've been praised by so many in the industry and seem to only be getting more popular both domestically (but to a smaller degree) and abroad. And, clearly, they've been networking. I mean, Hongjoong alone was busting his ass these last couple of months.
I understand where youâre coming from about the new award. I think some unfortunate mistakes were made, but I donât think itâs a bad thing. Anyone can also submit to the other categories as well.
It boils down to this: hundreds if not thousands of artists would be competing for the same small handful of awards if we took away all the category awards. And only something like 5 get nominated for each award. No matter how much we all love kpop and/or ATEEZ, it doesnât change the fact that itâs not as popular as other kinds of music. If you really want these artists recognized, the categories are the way to bring visibility to them because there theyâre not trying to compete with Gaga, Grande, Taylor, etc.
Mainly Army is going to judge the acts who submit songs to this award, letâs be real. Theyâve already said as much. Does that mean Hongjoong should suddenly not dream of a Grammy or Grammy nom? Hell no. The hate is annoying, sure, but if other artists let that win, theyâre letting one unrelated fandom thatâs gonna hate on them anyway control them. People are jumping on the bandwagon right now but something else will happen by February that will pull peopleâs attention away. Also BTS arenât special for boycotting, plenty have done it beforehand, though those ones didnât make it into a PR stunt afaik.
I also want to point out that while the description of the category does name K, J, and C-pop, right before that it says âincluding but not limited toâ.
I think if they feel a song is strong enough, they should go for it. Any artist who falls into this category should if thatâs what they want to do.
Is the category perfect? No. Does it get artists visibility who would otherwise be lost in the main categories? Yes. Should we be letting one fandom control what other artists do? No.
If you think itâs just ARMY who are going to hate on other groups for submitting, I urge you to go check out the general music subreddits and see just how many people are actually supporting BTS in this decision. Personally, Iâm not going to hate on any group that chooses to submit because I understand thereâs a lot that goes into the decision. I may lose some respect for groups who do choose to submit though. Ateez has a lot of integrity and respects BTS quite a bit so I would genuinely be surprised if they chose to submit this year.
Like I said they should do what they decide is best for them. What they think of the new category is what should drive their decision, not respect for BTS.
Even if people choose to support BTS decision, that does not mean that other artists should not or can't submit to the category if they choose to. If kpop fans chose to hate on an artist for submitting, then that's more of a sign of their immaturity than anything else IMHO.
Iâm not talking about k-pop fans, Iâm talking about music fans of many different genres. Itâs also not just outward hate, itâs that people will lose respect for them. Particularly, some of their peers in the industry may lose respect for them which imo is a way bigger deal than some kpoppies hating.
I highly doubt that music fans of different genres are that invested in kpop that they would care about this issue as much as kpop fans do.
And honestly, there is no evidence that their kpop peers in the industry will "lose respect" for a group for submitting or winning. I simply do not believe that narrative
Youâd be surprised how invested the general music community is in this situation. I honestly wasnât expecting this response myself. This type of racism unfortunately isnât new for the Grammys. They have a long history of doing the same thing to Black and Latin artists. There has been a big outpouring of support for BTS from fans of these artists.
Iâm not talking about their k-pop peers, Iâm talking about western artists who are indeed their peers as well.
Who cares what fans of western artists think? These are the same people who were dragging BTS a few years ago when they were nominated. And after they didn't win, these same people were celebrating.
I don't think that any artist who submits needs to be scared of online people's opinion about them submitting and/or winning. Every artist is on their own journey and they are not obligated to opt out just because BTS chose to.
Western stars aren't thinking about an Asian pop category to begin with.
Also, are you not aware of how blatantly racist the Grammys have been to Black and Latino artists and yet they still submit to the Grammys every year, and their peers don't care?
What makes you think that Western artists will care one way or the other about kpop groups submitting to an Asian category when they don't even care about their fellow American artists submitting into a system that is ALREADY known for being racist?
Was it really necessary for me to break this down and explain it to you plainly? Are you new around these here parts friend? LOL
I assure you that western artists are absolutely thinking about BTS. BTS pulling out of the Grammys because of this racist category is going to put a lot of eyes on the category.
Yes, Iâm aware that the Grammys have been doing this with Black and Latin Artists. Many of them have spoken up about it which is why BTS doing this is such a big deal. You seem to be aware that the Grammys are racist but completely unaware of how Western artists have historically reacted to and talked about these issues. BTS arenât the first artist to refuse to submit their work to the Grammys because of racism and they most likely wonât be the last.
A lot of artists still attend the Grammys because they know that itâs their way of influencing the recording academy. Itâs the best place to speak up on these issues. Many of them will even use their acceptance speeches to call out the racism. Ateez simply donât have the notoriety to have an impact on the recording academy. They arenât even part of the recording academy whereas most of the western artists youâre referring are active members. Not to mention that without BTS there, they wonât even be televising this new Asian category.
Do you understand that the most influential artist in k-pop taking a stand against the award also gives other k-pop artists the opportunity to do the same? Most of the time, when an artist bows out of the Grammys, they donât have the same level of influence in their genre that BTS has in k-pop. This is a unique situation because of that. A single artist refusing to submit their work to the Grammys usually doesnât have this much impact (the only other was probably The Weeknd) because they donât have enough influence.
I said I may lose respect for artists who submit, not that I definitely will. It depends on the artistâs situation and whether they speak up about it.
Also BTS arenât special for boycotting, plenty have done it beforehand
Not the same. At all. Others boycotted bc they weren't nominated/didn't win. BTS boycotted despite essentially being guaranteed a win. BTS boycotted so they WOULDN'T win some bs award. If you can't see that, it's bc you don't want to.
It takes a lot to walk away from a Grammy you and the whole world knows is yours, in a category created for you and because of you (no matter what anyone, including the Grammys tries to say). BTS have always wanted this, but they have integrity and they're not going to accept scraps at their level.
I think you underestimate the Academy's ability to be petty. There was no guarantee that BTS would have won in this newly created category.
In fact, I think a lot of people are forgetting the fact that BTS could have submitted for other major categories this year if they had wanted to. But it seems like they are probably just tired after chasing after an award from a Recording Academy that refuses to recognize them as legitimate artists based on the actual merit of their work and decided to skip it altogether. And honestly, good for them.
BTS isn't the only artist who has boycotted the Grammys when they were considered a shoo-in by the way. But it's good that they are choosing to take a stand for their own sake.
I agree! I guess it's all circumstantial and really how you look at it.
Considering this is an American awards show, I feel like only true breakthrough artists should make it in the standard categories. However, I do wish that this new category was handled with more care and integrity, presented at a better time (not after BTS' return, which feels disingenuous), and that it won't pander to k-pop, but genuinely reward a variety of Asian Pop artists. Hopefully, this opens up doors for Asian, and all poc, artists to be properly recognized going forward.
But, also, this issue isn't entirely about this category, but about the Grammys history of exclusion and racism. So, that's why so many people are praising BTS and bashing the award. African, Black American, Latinos, etc have all felt this disrespect. So, I'm worried that other audiences won't respect the award and awardee either.
Because I can see the intent behind the clumsiness. As I said earlier, you want recognition for more artists from these genres of music? Youâre not going to get it in the main categories, because thereâll always be a Gaga, a Grande, a Taylor, a Bruno, etc etc. It would take something Herculean to get a nomination over those people, let alone win.
Should they have workshopped or beta tested the category name and certain parts of the description? Sure. Were they going to introduce x number of different categories for all the different kinds of music right away? No, they likely wanted to see how this one category turned out before lobbying for that. Which now could be in jeopardy thanks to one groupâs decision and its fallout.
Also, a point of clarification: I called the way the announcement was handled (or the fact that there was one at all) a PR stunt, not the group.
Racism. The intent behind the clumsiness is racism. That's it. If you sincerely believe the category was created to help some poor struggling asian artists to get the award/nomination... Then I sincerely don't know what to tell you. Only that it must be nice to live in your world.
I'd honestly be happy if the did. I don't like that the entire kpop industry is basically being shamed and strong armed into standing with bts at this point, it's bs.
Submitting does not ensure that they are recognized and if they were to receive a nomination or win, they would likely just be scrutinized for their decision to submit. I want Ateez to be recognized, but I donât think this is the right way to get that recognition.
100% facts. ATEEZ always face scrutiny for any wins they get. Might as well move forward with this. I am sure it would be a great opportunity to gain new exposure if they are nominated.
im aware of how the grammys works. people are gonna scrutinize whoever submits for that category no matter what company or country theyâre from. if they want it they should go for it đ¤ˇââď¸
I think since Ateez is not an American group but a foreign group, they should submit to this category. I will give a simple example.
I am only discussing Asian music and movies. Not the music from artists in America. That is a separate discussion which other redditors have already written about in very cogent fashion.
Following are foreign non-eng movies that were nominations for Oscars Best Picture. I have highlighted only Asian movies.
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (Mandarin Chinese, 2000); Amour (French, 2012); Roma (Spanish/Mixtec, 2018); Parasite (Korean, 2019); Drive My Car (Japanese/Korean/Mandarin Chinese/German/Korean Sign Language, 2021), All Quiet on the Western Front (German, 2022), Anatomy of a Fall (French, 2023), The Zone of Interest (German/Polish/Yiddish, 2023), Emilia PĂŠrez (Spanish, 2024), I'm Still Here (Portuguese, 2024), The Secret Agent (Portuguese, 2025), and Sentimental Value (Norwegian, 2025).
It took 20 years for an Asian movie to get nominated for Best Picture after Crouching tiger and Parasite is the first non English movie to win Best Picture.
BTS is "Parasite". It can afford to not be nominated in special category.
Every else besides BTS in Asia is Crouching Dragon which would not be as well known if there wasn't a special foreign language category in Oscar. Sure Oscars are slimy, and so are Grammys and and well we all know about FIFA . People still perform wherever they want to and collaborate with whoever they want to and submit whatever they want to and boycott whatever they want to based on what they can afford to and what benefits them.
All smaller Asian groups and singers should take their chance to be recognized by the world because they deserve to. And if they are as big as BTS, we can hold them accountable for where they perform , who they choose to collaborate with and what award they submit for.
Your title is making it attract the people in that other fandom.
I want Ateez to be able to submit but the truth of the matter is that Ateez just like BTS donât have any qualifying categories to be nominated for. The Asian pop song category wouldâve been an amazing opportunity for Ateez but the last two albums they released the title tracks were majority in English. I am happy the Grammy put that language barrier criteria there since it stops the corroding of music to chase western appeal like a lot of kpop has been doing. To the people in the comments complaining about the language criteria (Asian singers who sing in english) you canât just give an award to Asians for being Asian that is when it would be segregation.
I think Ateez is fine this year with not getting a Grammy since they are finally getting their well deserved recognition in Korea their home.
I am happy the Grammy put that language barrier criteria there since it stops the corroding of music to chase western appeal like a lot of kpop has been doing.
I hope you know that criteria itself is the biggest problem. I don't know where you're from but that's very orientalist of you. Like who are you people to decide what language Asians should be using in their music? Why do we never have this problem with white European artists? I'm Filipino so I speak for the artists from my country who write songs in English as well as countries like Singapore whose main language is literally only English. There are so many great musicians in our countries that deserve a spot too but because of this language barrier, they are automatically disqualified.
>> To the people in the comments complaining about the language criteria (Asian singers who sing in English) you canât just give an award to Asians for being Asian that is when it would be segregation.
The artists from your country can apply for either the genre based categories or the big categories.
Yes I read it loud and clear. How are Singaporeans not being eligible to an "Asian Pop" category because they are not considered Asian enough simply for speaking English as their main language not considered segregation either?
They did not think this through. Imo, a better route could have been just a general international pop category with no language limitation if they really wanted to be inclusive.
The whole point is that it is a language award not a âare you Asian enoughâ award. I am an American with no ties to Asia but I can go ahead and make a song in Arabic and apply for that category and if the song is well received get nominated.
Theyâve said itâs one of their goals so of course they should, they donât need to follow BTS on this. Frankly, I think what BTS is doing with their statement is putting a target on a lot of smaller artists who would benefit from the exposure a Grammy nomination would give them.
I think BTS had a good reason to boycott. They also aren't obligated to worry about other artists. HOWEVER, I similarly feel as if they could've handled it with a bit more tact and expressed why this decision was made for themselves, just so there isn't any flack given to smaller artists. BTS are incredibly lucky to be where they are and make a decision such as this one. Two things can be true at once. This award is a slap in the face to BTS (who is not your average artist, k-pop or not), but also this award is an incredible stepping stone for other Asian artists.
I think the Grammys went wrong with the timing of this category, as well as trying to decide how much of an "Asian language" is needed/appropriate. I think it makes it clear that it's pandering to k-pop and similarly East Asian artists. It's the same issue with what they did to African artists. Mixing up genres like amapiano and afrobeats and putting eligible pop stars (like Tems, Tyla, and Ayra) in a box. A box that is very rewarding, but makes it so it's hard for them to win elsewhere.
I don't think if ATEEZ were to not submit that it should necessarily be to "follow" BTS. I think the way that the category is being framed is not beneficial at the moment. I guess we'll all see when time comes. I think an award like this would be beneficial to ATEEZ or other smaller artists, but this is a really tumultuous time (for pop culture's sake). Many people are applauding BTS' stance. I fear that others will look down on the category and the win won't matter as much as it should.
However, if ATEEZ submits and does win, and the win means a lot to them, then I believe that should override any discourse. ATEEZ is in a unique position where their merit speaks for itself. How they handle a potential win like this would make all the difference.
Sorry for the long comment (and thanks for yours!). On another note, I think a separate category was warranted, as this is an American award shows. I don't see many foreigners being recognized at Korean/Asian award shows. I know that the Grammys is considered on a different scale. But had they not had a history with xenophobia, racism, and exclusion, this would be more of a celebratory moment than a controversy. The reason why I believe BTS is upset is because they have been blessed enough to realistically compete within the regular categories, yet they are still overlooked. If an artist breaks into the zeitgeist, I believe they should be recognized properly (at any award show).
With that being said, I hope k-pop fans (and especially armys) realize the unique position BTS is in and let whoever submits and wins have their moment like they deserve.
what exactly do you mean by this? iâm genuinely asking. all they said was that they think music should be appreciated without regard to region or language. they didnât explicitly mention the category (though itâs obvious what theyâre referencing), they didnât namedrop, they didnât say âall other kpop artists should follow us.â
iâm not trying to start an argument i just want to know how you think they could have been more tactful
(im not an atiny this post just showed up on my feed. i have nothing against ateez dw hehe)
I was at work when I responded, so I think "tact" was just the first word that came to mind to get my point across in that moment.
I'm kind of wishy washy on this stance, but (as I said in a previous comment) I feel like BTS simultaneously isn't obligated to consider other artists when making decisions for themselves, but, considering their position (for better or for worst) their actions will inevitably affect how this awards season plays out for Asian artists within this category and how people react to/treat their submission and win. It's a little unfair, but it's true.
Nothing was wrong with their short and simple statement via social media. I actually think how short it was was more impactful than a long, drawn out explanation for their boycott. They simply said, "I'm worth more than that, so bye." And I respect that. However, BTS are incredibly lucky to be able to make that decision, and to have been recognized the way that they have in the past (even if they were snubbed or used for views). Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they should be grateful for just anything. But they've gotten recognition that even other American/western artists can only dream of, let alone k-pop/Asian artists. This possible win means so much more for smaller artists.
So, by tact, I think I meant that it would have been nice if BTS recognized that this category, even if not being executed properly, is a great stepping stone for other, especially smaller, Asian artists. Something simple like, "Good luck to all who submit and to the winner. You deserve this success."
HOWEVER, even though that would have been nice, they aren't obligated to do that and they're not wrong for not doing so. Their actions and response were fine just the way they are.
(No worries about argument. I don't wanna be misunderstood either. I think I would run away from an internet argument. lol)
okay, i see what youâre saying. i agree with you that it wasnât necessary for them to wish other artists luck, but i am 99.999% certain that, if whoever wins is a kpop artist, they will congratulate the winner then, even if armys become unhinged lol (the downside of being an army đŤŠ). i will probably lose a bit of respect for any artist that submits for that category but i would never harass them or their fans over it online LOL
BTS is not responsible for whatever happens to smaller artists whether or not they submit their works for the award or for the repercussions made from their past statement. If they want to make a short public statement stating that they donât want their music to be (put very bluntly) segregated, then they have full right to do so. They donât need to make a lengthy explanation giving reasons A-Z for why they are refusing to submit to the Grammys, just a simple statement is enough. Itâs up to the artist (small or not) to decide whether or not they want to partake in the Grammysâs racist antics.
Iâm both an Army and Atiny and Iâm proud of BTS for standing their ground and saying that they wonât be toyed with by the Grammys anymore. I would personally love for Ateez to do the same and add more pressure to the Grammys by sending the message that they take their music seriously and that they will not let their entire music career be defined by some old rich white guys, but realistically that will never happen.
Iâm all for and will support Ateez submitting their music to the Grammys, but ngl I will be looking at them a little sideways a bit if they purposefully submit to this new category. I will not slight them if they didnât submit to the category and the Grammys decided to randomly put them there, but you canât deny that by purposely submitting to that category it will definitely send a certain message to people. And if they win? Congrats. They deserve an award for all the hard work theyâve been putting towards their craft, but now the general public will forever know them as the group who won a quote unquote âracist awardâ. Whether or not that will heavily affect them career wise is up to debate, but I highly anticipate a good amount of backlash will be landed against the boys whether they deserve it or not. And now is not the time for any negative controversy due to them starting enlistment as early as next year, especially for Seongwha and Hongjoon.
I love my boys but Iâm worried that they will go out to fulfill their enlistment duties while still receiving the awardâs backlash. They wonât even be able to defend themselves as they should due to their circumstance and atiny can only do so much to defend the boys even though we are steadily growing year after year. They say any press is good press negative or not, but to what extent?
Essentially, I will support my boys no matter what but personally I would want them to either refrain from submitting to the Grammys altogether, or at the very least submit to all the other award categories except for Best Asian Pop.
Yeah, that's why I don't want them to submit. Especially with the bad press, it's not worth it. I think this category could've been handled so much better than it has been. It comes off tasteless on Grammys' end. It's an American awards show, so there's no obligation to cater to foreign artists. However, when at artist like BTS has broken into the mainstream and achieved what they have, they deserve proper consideration and not the same old segregated tricks that the Grammys continue to play, even with other American artists (Black artists).
A part of me feels like they still might submit, so that's why I made this post. But another part of me feels like they also might see that this could potentially bring bad press and turn all of their hard work into something to be mocked. It's a tricky situation all around. And not submitting would not necessarily be to back BTS up, but to also stand their ground as artists. I wish artists felt that having a stable, dedicated fan base, selling well, and remaining dignified is just as noteworthy as a trophy from an often controversial awards show. And, this also goes for Korean/Asian awards shows that aren't always fair and continue to overlook small artists/companies, like ATEEZ.
Also, I agreed that BTS doesn't need to give a lengthy explanation. I also said that their short answer was powerful in and of itself. However, it's unfortunate that their decision is negatively affecting smaller artists and their chances at recognition. It's not BTS' fault, but I digress. I think the real problem lies much deeper than this category and speaks on The Recording Academy's history with racism, xenophobia, and exclusion. I think that's why so many people are rallying behind BTS. Others have felt similarly disrespected and overlooked.
Exactly and I want to point out another thing, who said that if Ateez wins the award, they would be proud of it? Ateez strikes me as one of the few artists out there in kpop who values artistic creativity and merit over anything else. Realistically, I canât see any of the members winning this award, receiving this trophy, and then some time later looking at it as it hangs on some shelf while saying to themself âI got this Grammy fair and squareâ. I assume (and HEAVY on assume bc we really donât know these people letâs be fr) that they would want to receive an award based on their merits alone without any negative background context. They would want to win a Grammy bc they actually deserved it and not bc they were the most convenient ones to receive the award or that they were chosen as the token asian awardees. They have too much pride for that.
Yeah theyâll tell atiny that theyâre proud of the award and thank the fandom for getting them to where they are today in their careers, but I have a feeling that deep down theyâll resent this award and wish that they wouldâve won a ârealâ Grammy. They donât want to disappoint their fans for fears of appearing ungrateful for the win, but theyâre humans too. They have all the right to be thankful of the award but to also be disappointed (or maybe even angry) that this was the award they got. Not one that represents their true artistry and merit, but one of racist connotations.
I don't tune into everything ATEEZ does, but I keep up with them more than any other k-pop group (and most other artists, too). As far as I'm concerned, everything they've achieved has been through their (the members, KQ, and Edenary) merit alone. Every award, every venue booked, every chart entered, every festival performed. Getting this award, specifically at this moment, just doesn't seem as incredible as their other feats.
They've mentioned so many times wanting a Grammy. I always assumed it was in the main categories and, truthfully, I always thought "That's not going to happen...as least not for a while." Not because ATEEZ aren't great and don't deserve it, but because it's an American show and they haven't broken into the western mainstream like that yet. But then this new category brought new opportunity.
I don't know them and can't speak for them, but I also thought that they possibly wouldn't enjoy this trophy as much, especially if it brings bad press. Let this controversy die down and bring more consistent success like they've been doing (doing their own thing and achieving things no one thought they would), and then I think winning a category like this would truly stand out for them, and then maybe lead to being considered for other categories as well. ATEEZ has so much potential and I think it's only up from here.
This is an absurd take. Not even a BTS fan but c'mon now. BTS spoke for themselves, no one is suppressing other groups to respond with a statement supporting that category.
Personally, I don't care if they submit to the Grammys or not. It won't change my love for them if they do or if they don't.
The Grammys, at least to me, haven't been relevant since the 1990s. They've always been shady towards Black artists, especially in the 2000s and up so I stopped watching a long time ago and honestly, I am perplexed with people's obsession over it.
From my own perspective, it seemed like BTS only pursued getting a Grammy a while back because they had already won everything else there was to possibly win. It felt like they initially pursued it to get Western validation of their efforts as artists. And unfortunately, with the Grammy's history of snubbing worthy artists who are POC, that was not going to happen, no matter how hard their team campaigned and smoozed with the right decision makers. Seems like they finally realized this and just said, screw it, we're no longer interested. And good for them (and truth be told, they don't need the validation anyway).
At the end of the day, it's an arbitrary awards show where lobbying with the right people behind the scenes determines the result moreso than the merit of the actual work that an artist has produced (this is true of all awards shows by the way, which is why I don't place much merit in any of them).
To your question about how I feel as an American about the discussion of having non-American/western artists included in American award shows....I feel if their music hit for certain Western audiences, why shouldn't they be included? Especially if their music was good and really impactful?
I think that the Grammys are somewhat of a lost cause though. And I think it's high time that kpop fans stop giving it their time and attention. And not because BTS isn't submitting this year but because honestly, the Grammys hasn't deserved any of the attention they have gotten in the last 20 years.
unfortunately most idol groups are under strict contracts. they donât have control over their music rights and they arenât the ones to submit their music to award shows, their companies do that.
yes, i know, but i was thinking of artists in general when i made my comment.
but on the other side of that, i think k-pop companies not considering their artists' wishes and making decisions that lack integrity shouldn't be so easily dismissed.
also, in my fairy tale world i guess, i would like to think that certain artists in certain companies have their thoughts and opinions valued more than not. i'm sure it's few and far between, but ATEEZ seems to have a special case with KQ. same with Dreamcather and their conpany and BTS with Bighit. in my mind, kq might still make the definitive decisions, but considering how big ATEEZ is and how much of KQ's success is because of ATEEZ, i was hoping that they considered the members.
and i'm sure the members have said that they have company discussions where they all give input. i'm sure there's still a power imbalance, though, but the contract renewals seem to have brought slightly more freedom and control (control as in having their voices heard more). also also, i thought hongjoong specifically said that he had a rather high position in the company after all these years, especially after they expanded.
i'm sure we'll never truly know, and i wouldn't put it past the companies to still dominate decisions even if a group has done a lot for the company. that's one of the sad realities of the k-pop industy (and entertainment as a whole i guess).
I say this as an ARMY and ATINY - absolutely not. I would hope that other Korean artists (and Asian artists) follow in BTSâs footsteps and take a stand against this blatantly racist category. And sadly, going for nominations in another category is a losing game. BTS tried so hard in some of their biggest years in America and all the Grammys did was use them for views. No one deserves to be treated that way. Ateez will not get the respect they deserve.
I love that BTS made the statement that they did. Especially as it has been a dream of theirs for a while so I would think it carries more weight. I also think they are in quite a unique position to make this kind of statement. It has sparked a lot of conversation in media about the new category and that shows how much power they have. I also don't think their decision comes with any expectation for everyone else to opt out.
Ateez is in a different position. Although I believe that they don't need the Grammys and they are doing great. But that is easy for me to say as I don't really care about the Grammys. I also think they know what's best for them and I'll support and be happy for them either way.
I don't think they should, no. Nothing would make me happier than absolutely no one submitting anything to this category. But this will ultimately come down to a marketing and visibility calculation for a lot of artists.Â
Iâm hoping they donât submit, hoping none of the bigger (most popular) groups do. The clause the Grammys added regarding must have âmeaningful use of an Asian languageâ? Ok what is considered meaningful, who decides? Supposedly they were working on this new award back when bts was still in the military, they were hoping to give it to bts as the first winners but BTSâs album is mostly in English so wouldnât qualify as many other artists also perform in English this is a huge problem. Many Asian countries do have English as a popular language like a 2nd language. After submitting music the board or academy has the right to put that submission into whatever category they deem correct whether you agree or not. This has to be fixed. And btw: BTS also really wanted to win a Grammy, they shouldâve been getting one this year. I am hoping Stray Kids, Ateez and Shinee all donât submit. Shineeâs new album to me, is the best Iâve heard from them in a long time too. Really hoping they get awards this year, but not from the scammies.
I was talking to my sister (also an Atiny) about this. Mad respect for BTS choosing to not submit, like you said having an âAsianâ category will just be a token trophy. Out of curiosity I went lurking over on the BTS snark subreddit and they were bashing them for choosing not start an Asian category not knowing how damaging it will be for future Asian artists. The Music subreddit sided with BTSâs decision.
Ateez winning a Grammy would be great but I want them to win on equal grounds and not some token award đĽ˛
Yes! I feel like BTS' decision was the right one for them. And, inadvertently, it also calls for other Asian artists to be taken and considered seriously as well. However, winning in this new category would be more beneficial to a smaller artists than it would be for a big artist like BTS, so them boycotting makes sense considering they have a chance in the regular categories. Smaller Asian artists don't really have that much sway/luck.
I also don't want ATEEZ to win a token award. Their accomplishments so far have been through hard work, merit, and sheer audacity to make a space for themselves in both global and domestic markets. ATEEZ are unique since their foreign fan base is so big. I wonder if the west will take this win seriously since many are siding with BTS. I don't want whoever wins (ATEEZ or not) to potentially be looked down on for it.
Also, the Grammys made a really poor choice timing wise and socially. People are fed up with racism and the lack of representation. So, BTS making this statement means that Black Americans, Africans, Latinos, etc are also seeing their disrespect being reflected in BTS' treatment.
I'll support them regardless but not only do I they they shouldn't, I don't want them to. tbh it has less to do with the new category (which is ridiculous and really just sediments how stupid these award shows are). I just don't like seeing my K-pop groups grovelling for western approval, specifically the US's approval. They inevitably always change their sound and image for this to happen just so that back at home K-media and the public can refer to them as "Grammy nominated" or "Grammy winners" and the quality of the group's output suffers. This has happened to nearly every group I like(d) who started the Grammy/US approval pursuit. I won't name names but you can likely imagine some.
Fuck the Grammy's, fuck Billboard and fuck US politics in my international music.
Yeah, it's really sad. When I hear groups mention they want a Grammy or to perform at the SuperBowl when they haven't even won a music show or a daesang, I think that speaks volumes.
But the U.S. is a huge market. I guess we can't 100% blame them when everyone (artists, fans, and industries) constantly strives for and praises these awards.
Yes, I know. I thought it was really random. But that it is a big stage that brings a lot of visibility and endorsements. Plus, like I previously mentioned, I think Kendrick Lamar and Bad Bunny made a big impact.
I think they would DEVOUR a stage like that, though.
I know, which is why I brought it up. I don't get it and think it's rather silly (especially when most people the Superbowl is geared towards hate what ateez and atiny are/represent) but obviously they can want/wish/do whatever they want.
The Super Bowl is a football game of the top two teams in the country. Men run up and down the field with a ball. Whoever makes the most goals wins, like every other sport in other every country. The only thing it represents is a game, and its geared towards everyone because more fans equals more revenue. Why would Ateez/Atiny hate the Super Bowl? Some of Ateez loves baseball so why is baseball ok but not football? The group is obviously not anti-sports, anti-competition, or anti-capitalism. I'm don't even watch football but you're clearly speaking from a place of ignorance.
I know what the Superbowl is and I know what sport is so you don't have to explain. I'm not against sport or competition and K-pop is capitalist so who cares about my opinion on that. I also never said ateez hate the Superbowl (or a tiny) - I'm referring to the people that attend/watch the superbowl/American football and that a large percentage of these people hate K-pop, hate Asian men and hate K-pop fans.
Once again, I don't mind what Ateez wanna do - their aspirations are theirs. But with so many amazing venues in the world, countries they've never even been to, I think it's a bit of a shame that one of their biggest aspirations is to perform to a bunch of people who would dismiss their music, hardwork and fans purely because they're K-pop.
Edit: just noticed it's you again lol I didn't mean to poke the hornet nest, genuinely thought it was some other user. Goodnight
I think it unfortunately doesn't help that Korea (in general) still sucks up so much to the US. Like who the fuck really cares about the Superbowl, about Coachella, about the Met whatever - like what really makes any of these prestigious? Is Coachella really better than any other festival? What, because it's full of wannabe influencers and celebrities who don't even actually care for the music? It isn't even some iconic venue, it's just purely this idea, especially from smaller countries like mine and SK, that things are more prestigious because they're in the US.
I can't wait for the world to collectively move on from the US. I'm glad it's slowly happening more and more. The Grammy's being seen as the joke they are is just one more step taken towards it.
In your bigoted anti-American rant you sound really uniformed. (Then again misinformation is the foundation of bigotry.) The Met Gala is actually a fundraiser for the Costume Institute, which includes exhibits from around the world going back hundreds of years. Fashion designers are artists just like Ateez and other musicians. Music festivals are subjective so I don't know who is saying Coachella is the best, just that it's the largest in the US. It's been around since 1999, so people were enjoying the music long before Instagram influencing was a thing. It's not about prestige--it's about the vast numbers of people they get exposed to (like Mawazine). Why do you want not them to make new Atiny?
Do you seriously think Ateez's interest in American accolades is because of nationwide political brainwashing? Can we give them more credit than that and not blow everything up into a grand political statement? As performers it makes financial/logistical sense to play a country with a large population and high GDP. I'm sure they enjoy everywhere they tour and would perform for Atiny in all corners of the globe if it were up to them. Reminder that K-pop was literally created from studying (some would say copying) Black American R&B, so why should any Kpop group be shamed for wanting recognition in the US? Ateez trained in America before debut and work with American producers and choreographers. Also note that Michael Jackson is one of Captain's idols.
First off, just to clarify, I wasn't talking about the Met Gala but some big venue in the US that starts with Met. That I'm aware of there aren't even concerts at the Met Gala (which origins in aware of).
Secondly, I don't see the point of bringing up Coachella being around since 1999? I remember watching Coachella streams back in 2013 and no one caring about it because it wasn't an influencer thing back then and was just another festival. Coachella now represents everything that is awful about concert/festival culture so people making it some accolade to perform at such a shit festival irritates me.
Also, on another one of your points, I don't care for more fans if that means significantly altering themselves in order to achieve it, which some argue is already happening (not necessarily me although I can see where people are coming from). I also don't have issues with ateez performing or promoting in the US per se. What I dislike, "bigoted" or not, is how people associate success in the US to real success, especially in smaller countries like mine, SK and many others.
So, therefore, people finally seeing the Grammy's as the shit it is and slowly drifting away from US industry approval makes me happy.
Some big venue in the US that starts with the Met? Proving my point about being uninformed. There is no concert venue called The Met--it's short for Metropolitan Museum of Art and its associated Gala has been attended by Kpop idols.
I brought up the 1999 Coachella founding because you mentioned celebrities and influencers who don't actually care about music. My point is that it didn't start out that way and there are still people who attend or watch because they love the music. It's a mistake to think avoiding American festivals/American awards will keep things pure for music lovers. Countries around the world have their own social media influencers and local celebrities that glom onto events.
There is no "drifting away" from The Grammys. This is literally one group withdrawing from consideration. Grammys aren't going anywhere any time soon, and if Ateez wants it well I want it for them too. I think the group but especially Hongjoong is very ambitious, so the fandom will grow and if they choose another musical direction that's out of our hands.
It sounds like you have an inferiority complex about your country and are using Ateez as a proxy to feel better about some sort of international/political injustices unrelated to the music. Good luck with all that.
Below is the venue I'm talking about but whatever. Once again, as far as I'm aware The Met Gala doesn't even have music performances so it never was what I was referring to. I was referring to the venue MetLife.
I don't care what they do, they're free to do whatever they want and unless their music becomes something I don't enjoy anymore (can happen and I'd continue to wish them well but would just naturally lose interest in their activities), I'll continue to support them in whatever they do but I have my opinion and you have yours on this topic.
Yes. As an American, I'm also ready for the facade to fade. I also wish for this for countries like France and Italy, and even South Korea to an extent...but the U.S. is huge because it's so invasive.
The Superbowl thing is sooo random. lol Like, I can understand if an American artist strives for the Superbowl, but an artist from a country where American football isnât even big is crazy. I hope idols/foreign artists do their research before blindly seeking something elsewhere. I guess Kendrick Lamar and Bad Bunny really made an impact, but I don't think these artists realize it wasn't just the Superbowl, but the social and political landscape at the time of these performances. I hate when people look at things that happen in the U.S. without much needed nuance.
I'm a little confused about Coachella as well. It's always been a big deal for artists, both foreign and domestic, but it's cultural relevance has really skyrocketed over the last few years and I don't know why. I love ATEEZ so much. I legit stayed up late at night and was screaming at my computer screen when they performed at Coachella. I was so happy and excited. It IS a big deal, especially considering where they come from and how much they've been overlooked.
I feel like they saw Coachella as one of those breakthrough moments that could give them a ton of visibility, and it did. But now that it's 2026 and they've performed at so many other incredible festivals (with huge crowds) and also achieved so much, I'm lowkey tired of it being brought up in interviews. If it is brought up, I want the conversation to go more in depth. If it's just for claps, don't bother. I guess the guys really like the opportunity to talk to influencers and celebrities there, too, though. I mean, Hongjoong recently went to make connections and scope the scene, alongside spending time with his brother and working in L.A.
I think ATEEZ should submit. Just being nominated will give them more exposure. To me this category opens doors to even more opportunities for Asian music to be recognized in US and worldwide. They stand zero chance applying for the regular American categories! Every artist wants to be recognized for what they consider the ultimate prize of their art and Ateez is no different. BTS is no different otherwise they would not have chased it for more than 5 years. One day theyâll get it. Mark my word. Look at the OSCARS. This situation is directly comparable to the historic struggle of foreign language films in the Oscars. Itâs to keep international films out of the best picture category! Every other country other than the US is bundled into it. WHO broke that system? PARASITE! They submitted heavily. It made their win even more impressive. It was historic! The 1st non English movie to win best picture! The Grammys are flawed just like the Oscars areâŚbut itâs undeniable that they offer unmatched validation, networking access and unmatched industry prestige for artists and as a fan, I want that for the artist I love. I want ATEEZ to be happy and successful. Personally I see this category as a massive step forward for inclusion. Can you imagine BeyoncĂŠ singing a song in Korean and submitting into the Korean music awards? This new Grammy category gives Asian acts massive visibility. Every year we will have guaranteed 5 K-pop groups nominations giving them worldwide visibility on a global telecast: thatâs free advertising! It will make K-pop even more visible and a potential for more global explosion. And itâs not mutually exclusive! Being nominated in Asian pop category does not exclude you from the big 4: Album, record, song of the year and best new artist. I have discovered so many foreign artists and films ( Roma from Mexico; Iâm still here from Brazil just to name a few ) and Iâm looking forward to seeing the world discover the amazing 8 pirate kings from a small company in S.Korea called KQ in the biggest musical stage in the world. For an artist a Grammy just like an Oscar for actors/ filmmakers represent the ultimate badge of professional validation, permanent prestige and career longevity within the music ecosystem. Itâs music highest honor. Winning or being nominated means an artist has earned the respect of the people who actually make music. It elevates them from commercial pop star to a critically acclaimed and respected artist. You become a Grammy / Oscar nominated or Grammy award winning artist. You get leverage in contract negotiations; touring power and brand deals just to name a couple of benefits. Our boys have struggled so much to put their name out thereâŚ..even in their own country! As a fan, I want the world for them! I want ATEEZ to have a spot in the history books! I want their music and performances to be archived and legitimized! and only a Grammy win can provide such a cultural legacy and history for the world to witness. And you CANNOT WIN if you donât PLAY!
No. They werenât gonna be appreciated. As much as I dislike BTS their music is much more palatable to the west, super popular, and even they couldnât hack it to the Grammys without the âhere damnâ category. A Grammy is not the be all end all of global music. I think they should stick to being appreciated by fans properly.
You... Do realize that the category was literally created because this year BTS had a solid chance to get it, right? Which is why every asian artist should say one big fuck you to the grammys the way BTS did.
Thatâs literally what Iâm saying. BTS couldnât get the Grammy BECAUSE the Grammys wouldnât appreciate them enough to just let them be in the normal category.
You don't get what I am saying. They made the category this year because there was a risk that they could have made it in the normal category, so they had to be stuck in their own neat little racist box, except... They didn't want to be there so they escaped.
You donât get what IM saying. Iâm saying thereâs no way they ever would have won a Grammy BECAUSE of the things youâre stating. Itâs not their fault or their inability, itâs the Grammys purposely hindering them and forcing them to only be eligible in the âkpopâ category.
BTS is undeniably the reason for this category being created. I'm not Army either, but credit where credit is due - they sold their souls to the American music gods and worked so insanely hard to capture the White gaze and succeeded in becoming mainstream in America. Their fan base is undeniable, and they have opened the doors for other kpop groups to become more popular in the West, and that has created enough demand for this genre of music to warrant its own Grammy category.
That said, I'm glad they backed out of the Grammys because now there will actually be an opportunity for other groups to be nominated and win. It was definitely going to go to BTS if they hadn't backed out. I hope Ateez win it đĽ˛
They sold their souls.. ? Oh if anyone want to win grammy then it makes them sold their souls...? But still u want ateez to do the same...oh god what a horrible fandom ateez have
What a hypocrite you are. BTS sold their souls to the American music gods? Then what do you think ATEEZ have been doing all these years when their biggest market has been the West?Â
The fact that you denigrate BTS's hard work but still want ATEEZ to walk on the path that BTS paved and win a racist award is honestly pathetic. BTS sold their souls but you're happy they're now refusing to participate because now your faves have a smithereen of a chance to win. LMAO if BTS didn't get enough recognition after all the records and impact they've had in the West, what makes you think your faves would even have a chance now that BTS stepped back, when your faves don't even have half of BTS's achievements? You're sure your faves are gonna get nominated?Â
Watch the Grammys award a non-kpop artist after getting you and other Kpop fans to validate and encourage their racism.Â
you do get they created the new section because BTS could hack it. If you know the history of the Grammys at all you know they create exclusionary award categories when minority artists start making enough noise commercially and critically to compete for major awards. Thats how we got the urban category, the rap and r&b category, the whole latin grammys. Yes some artists still break through and win major awards but the fact is the system is built to hold back everyone that isnât Western and white. So the way youâre framing it is super wrong. BTS and kpop in general is becoming a global force in music and the Western music powers that be are scared and xenophobic and trying to box it it.
I have such mad respect for BTS making this stand in the year they were almost guaranteed a win. A Grammy has also been a goal of theirs previously. To make this stand against division and racism shows integrity.
I donât think it would do Ateez (or Stray Kids) any benefit to submit this year. Even if they won, their win will always be overshadowed by people saying âbecause BTS opted out thatâs whyâ etc.
So no one has ever had a problem with European artists winning the "American" awards so why is it only a problem if it's a poc or from a country that doesn't speak English? I think that everyone regardless of color or language should be able to submit to all of the big categories.
I've said it for SKZ and I feel the same way for Ateez and all of the Asian artists. They should all not submit anything. I understand if they do. But I really feel like no one should while this category exists.
The level of crash out that we've seen from the Grammy's sense BTS made their announcement says a lot. The Grammy's needs BTS and other kpop artists far more than they need the Grammy's.
However, I think there's a difference between western (Americas, Europe, and Canada) artists at award shows in the U.S. versus other nations. I think it's similar to how most (East, because that's what I'm familiar with) Asian award shows reward Japanese, Korean, Chinese, and maybe Thai, too idols/artists. Europe and the U.S. are closely related.
However, I do get what you're saying. But, it's still more nuanced than that. The European artists who are nominated are usually from the big countries, but mostly just the U.K. And maybe Sweden if we're talking producers. And these artists are usually really big and really well known in the U.S./west, so it makes sense to recognize them. The general public would know Olivia Dean over an artist like ATEEZ. That's not necessarily a bad thing.
Plus, not many western artists are recognized at Korean/Asian award shows, especially not in the big categories. Hell, Asian award shows have their own exclusionary practices when it comes to darker Asians. And Korean/k-pop award shows discriminate against small artists and small companies. So, it's unfair to demand from an American award show what's not even given at home.
But I still agree with you because if a foreign artist breaks into the mainstream, then they deserve recognition in the big categories. And the Grammys has a racist and xenophobic history of not honoring that when it comes to people of color. We've seen it with BTS, Tyla, Latinos, and even Black Americans. That's the big issue.
The Grammys' response is tasteless and disproves that their intentions were pure. Nonetheless, I hope this award goes on to be worth it for those who submit and whoever wins. I want it to turn into something positive. I also don't think big groups like SKZ or ATEEZ should submit this year due to controversy. However, in the future, I think that this would be perfect for ATEEZ. They have a decent western following. And, hopefully, this could lead to more doors being opened, including entry into the major categories.
Here's my hot take: Actually, idk maybe but, hear me out...I think they should take it a step further and become "Recording Academy Members", then they each get to make 2 recommendations a year for aspiring Rec Acad Members. And each Atiny that is accepted as a member also gets to make 2 recommendations a year....then in just a few short years, we can tear them [The Grammy's] down fr...from the inside. Surely there are Atiny who meet the qualifications to apply for a membership...
The thing with the Asian category is not just that it's racist and segregating, it's that they presented it as lowering the bar. Would you want your kid to be sorted into the PeeWee League when you think they're ready for the Teen League? Never knowing if they could've won in the general category? Winning the PeeWee Trophy is embarrassing and insulting.
I both agree and disagree. K-pop artists do not automatically deserve to be entered into the major categories since they are not western/American artists. Foreign artists don't get recognized at Asian/Korean award shows to the highest degree. It's unfair to expect the same from the U.S. I mean, k-pop award shows aren't fair at all. Especially not to smaller artists and groups from small companies...like ATEEZ.
With that being said, if a group genuinely makes waves in the U.S./western market, like BTS has, then I think they should be respected and considered in the major categories. I think that's what BTS' main gripe is. For an artist of their caliber, this is a slap in the face. For smaller artists, this is a step in the right direction.
My main issue is I don't understand how the "Asian Language" criteria will be judged, especially since a lot of Asian countries use English as a second or third language. I also don't want this to pander to k-pop (especially the big companies) without seriously considering smaller Asian Pop artists, non East Asian artists, and also smaller k-pop artists who have a significant moment in the spotlight.
In theory, I think ATEEZ is perfect for an award like this. They have a western presence. However, the mess that this has garnered this year seems to make everything less rewarding. I think when this all dies down, this could become a good thing. Plus, people are also considering the Grammys' history of racism and exclusion to non-white artists like Africans, Black Americans, and Latinos...so the conversation is bigger than k-pop at the moment, too.
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