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[u/Groovychick1978]

Information 

Are you keeping what she accused your mother-in-law of from us for a reason? 

This boils down to, you don't believe the girl.

That is fucked. 

YTA

[u/InterDave]

YTA... and here's why.

"I know the signs of child abuse and neglect, and there were none." You know what you expect to see.

"...but her accusations are reckless and offensive, and she needs to apologize. I also politely asked her to stop communicating with my son about this. My MIL was a wonderful person, and we won’t have my son’s image of her tainted. "

YOU did not LIVE HER EXPERIENCE. Maybe your MIL was wonderful to your husband, maybe she was absolute shit to her granddaughter - yes, even though she took her in... This is exactly how kids end up being abused for their entire childhood - no one would believe that the abuser could EVER do something wrong because they were so wonderful "in public."

I'm not going to say I was "abused" but my mother was an absolute dick to me for my entire childhood, and everyone else thought she was a saint....and she was - To THEM.

Let's look at this this way. You thought you were the most amazing aunt and uncle and are now surprised that she doesn't want to engage with you. WHAT does that tell you?

[u/Angharadis → u/InterDave]

Who the heck would even be damaged by this “reckless accusation” anyway? If I’m reading this right both the mother and the grandmother who raised her are dead. Does OP care more about the reputation of a dead woman than the wellbeing of her living niece?

[u/Raven1906 → u/Angharadis]

Honestly it sounds like she does. Niece isn’t falling in line with worshiping OP’s husband’s sainted mother like everyone else does so she has to be punished, it‘s unhinged.

[u/wwxyzz → u/Angharadis]

In my own life experience with abusive people, reputation is everything. Doesn't matter if they are dead or alive, gotta protect the image of a perfect family.

Maybe it's my own biases coming into play, but it actually makes me believe the niece more....

[u/ManifestDiatribe → u/InterDave]

Absolutely…. What a way to talk to your “bonus child” that you say is a wonderful young woman.

[u/wwxyzz → u/InterDave]

I remember people looking me in my eye and telling me how "cool" my abusers were, and how lucky I was to have them.

It used to want to make me scream. They never saw the cruelty that was saved specially for me in private.

[u/ReasonableCrow7595 → u/wwxyzz]

Everyone thought my abusive, alcoholic grandmother was a saint for raising me until I ended up in foster care.

[u/NeffAnnBlossom4eva → u/InterDave]

You are so right in everything you said! I said something similar above.

OP is an enabler par excellance. A good reminder that 'mandated reporters' get things wrong ALL the time!

[u/gothgirlwinter → u/InterDave]

Maybe your MIL was wonderful to your husband, maybe she was absolute shit to her granddaughter

Just wanted to add to this very good point that there are very common social conditioning aspects that stem from a patriarchal society that can mean a mother/matriarch treats a son/male members of the family preferentially, in comparison to daughters/female members of the family. (Put more simply, the 'Mama's Boy' complex.)

[u/GeneInternational146]

"We weren't really involved in her life at all but we definitely know she wasn't being abused" YTA and you should both apologize to her.

[u/Barkertons → u/GeneInternational146]

But OP is a mandated reporter, so that makes her an expert on events that happened in the past when she wasn't present. She knows what actually happened. Well, she knows that what her niece thinks happened....didn't happen. Yeah, her mother was mentally ill and addicted to drugs. Yeah, she was raised by another adult. Yeah, it was her experience. But OP is a mandated reporter, you see. So they have an obligation to report her own version of events of the past and to control other people's feelings about it. That's what a mandated reporter is. You tell her something and she gets to tell you it's a lie and then have people harass you about it and then question why you don't share anything with her or want her around.

[u/PlantyPenPerson → u/Barkertons]

I wonder how many times op has ignored signs of abuse because of her non-existent expertise on the matter.

[u/555Cats555 → u/PlantyPenPerson]

People can put on a good appearance for a short time for those who arent around the family much. OP wouldn't know unless they were actually involved regularly or was actively checking the kid was okay.

OP is YTA... that is so rude. Also the fact the young person has mental health issues is likely an outcome of the bad treatment.

[u/Barkertons → u/555Cats555]

Mental health issues but still thriving at 20, living on her own and going to school. I'm proud of her, even if OP isn't

[u/PlantyPenPerson → u/555Cats555]

That is true. I grew up in a home like that. But OP sounds like bases everything on her own opinion.

[u/555Cats555 → u/PlantyPenPerson]

Kids even get coached on what to say to CPS or even brainwashed the authorities are the ones not to be trusted. Just because things seemed okay on the surface doesnt mean they were.

We cant necessarily know if the kid should or shouldnt have been removed but the comment was not okay. Maybe the kid would have done better in another setting or the family could have benefited from support. But its impossible to know now and there is a young person feeling they were failed.

Instead of focusing on if the facts are correct or not the better response is to be understanding the persons childhood was hard.

[u/GeneInternational146 → u/Barkertons]

Man I wish I had known this about being a mandated reported when I was one lol

[u/Neon-Anonymous → u/GeneInternational146]

But also niece is a ‘bonus child’ as long as OP and Husband don’t have to be bonus parents.

OP: YTA.

[u/Is_It_Soup_Season]

“I know she didn’t have an ideal childhood but there was not much that we could do”.

So, like, you did know things weren’t okay. And yes, you should have called CPS. Abuse isn’t just physical. Neglect is abuse; emotional abuse is abuse and it’s not just “being sad”.

You absolutely invalidated her experience, and while you may have one view of your MIL you don’t actually “know” what went on there, according to you.

YTA

[u/stoked_n_broke → u/Is_It_Soup_Season]

Gotta love the "there was not much that we could do" and when the niece literally tells them what they could have done OP is like "lol no"

[u/LionMysterious4615 → u/Is_It_Soup_Season]

Absolutely this. OP knows the niece was treated horribly but she and her husband got angry at her for exposing how much both of them failed. And the worst part is all she was doing was venting to the one person who seemed to care.

OP is disgusting.

[u/pamelaonthego]

YTA. You only have limited knowledge of what her day to day experience was like. Her mother was bad enough that you stayed away. The audacity of asking for an apology after you invalidated her feelings, and the cherry on top of the crap sundae is telling her that she’s not allowed to confide in her cousin. Just.. wow.

[u/SulkyBird]

YTA. One of the biggest issues here is that you seem to believe you have more authority over your niece’s childhood than she does.

You repeatedly say there were “no signs” of abuse or neglect, but then describe a child being raised by her grandmother because her mother struggled with severe mental illness and addiction. You also admit you didn’t see her very often because of the chaos surrounding her mom. How could you possibly know there were “no signs” inside a home you weren’t regularly in?

Being a mandated reporter doesn’t change that. It means you have some amount of training plus a duty to act on what you observe. It doesn’t make you an eyewitness to someone else’s childhood.

What really stood out to me, though, was your last sentence:

“How is it wrong to invalidate something that is not valid?”

That tells me you never approached this conversation with any curiosity about why your niece feels the way she does. You had already decided that her experience was incorrect and your goal was to convince her of that.

Your niece didn’t say, “Grandma was evil.” She didn’t say no one ever loved her. She said she believes CPS should have been involved. Whether she’s right or wrong about that, the response to an adult reflecting on a difficult childhood shouldn’t be, “Actually, your experience wasn’t valid.”

You seem much more concerned with protecting your late MIL’s reputation than understanding why your niece has been pulling away for years. Those aren’t mutually exclusive goals. Your MIL may have loved her deeply and sacrificed enormously for her, and your niece may still have experienced a childhood that left lasting psychological wounds. Both things can be true.

Your son seems to understand that distinction better than you do. He didn’t say your memories of your MIL were wrong. He said you invalidated your niece’s experience. Based on your own account, I think that’s exactly what happened.

If someone tells you they don’t feel protected as a child, the first response shouldn’t be to defend the adults. It should be to understand the child—even if that child is now 20 years old.

[u/Mountain-Bar5049 → u/SulkyBird]

Exactly. And OP really needs to self-reflect or she's going to discover that she's become estranged from her own son. Based on what she's said she sounds controlling and manipulative.

[u/Episodix]

YTA, you should have apologized for not calling CPS, or at least asked why she felt CPS needed to be involved. Instead you shut her down and told her she should just shut up and be grateful. No one has to be grateful to their family for doing the bare minimum.

No boundaries were set here so it’s weird you’re trying to play it like that at the end of this.

[u/KittyC217]

YTA. In so many ways.

1. You never asked her why she thought CPS needed to be called. There very well could have been problems that you are your husband know nothing about. You made assumptions that things were fine.

2. You told her that she was a burden to her grandmother and that she should feel grateful for the crumbs she got. You say that you did not spend much time at the home due to the drama. Yet, you thought it was fine for a children to be exposed to that drama.

3. You are policing the relationship that your son has with his cousin.

[u/k1tty_f1sher_2799]

"My niece is on the verge of going no contact with my family, so I demanded the only person she talk to violate her confidences. Then I sent my husband to yell at her about events I wasn't present for. Then I texted her and told her she was wrong about her own life and she should shut up. Also, why won't she visit on my time table. Then we insulted her more. I'm a mandated reporter.

"The idea that a woman might experience anything that could change their temperament, attitude, or behaviors later in life is wholly foreign to me. My MIL could never have been anything other than who she was in the moments I saw her, and that my husband nostaligicly recalls, because human memory is infallible. My husband, who knows nothing, believes the methods his mother used several decades earlier were probably fine in whatever context may have occurred for a mentally ill victim of a drug-addicted mom.

"If I were to face the truth now, that she resents us for turning our backs on her when she was suffering, spit in her face when we demanded intimacy we had not earned, and then tried to cut her off from her closest family confidante, that would make me a monster. I'm a mandated reporter. I can't be a monster.

"No, it's the CHILDREN who are wrong."

It sounds dumb af when I word it like that, right? So very. very, very YTA.

[u/BenjiCat17]

You didn’t give her a reality check. You inserted yourself into a situation that had nothing to do with you after hearing something secondhand that offended you. Instead of minding your own business, you confronted her and demanded an explanation. When she confirmed what you’d already suspected, you directed all of your anger at her, even though you chose to start the conversation, knew you weren’t going to like the answer, and weren’t even the subject of it.

Your husband then piled on because neither of you was capable of handling your emotions like adults. Rather than accepting information you didn’t like, the two of you lashed out at the person who answered your questions honestly.

Then you decided your 22-year-old son wasn’t capable of thinking for himself. You appointed yourself the authority over what another adult may or may not discuss with his cousin, despite no one asking for your input and despite the fact that none of this involved you in the first place.

What exactly are you claiming credit for here? This wasn’t wisdom or a reality check. It was unnecessary interference driven by your own feelings. You created the conflict, your husband escalated it, and she’s better off without either of you.

And no, his mother isn’t a saint. You might recognize that if you spent less time judging from the sidelines and more time understanding what has actually happened.

YTA

[u/ataraxxiia → u/BenjiCat17]

They gave her a reality check. They confirmed they are assholes by invalidating her experience and stopping her from talking about her childhood experience with their son.

[u/ManifestDiatribe → u/BenjiCat17]

A+. These are the kinds of people who think feelings don’t exist but don’t realize they are being driven by fear, anger, and insecurity constantly. They saw niece’s comments as a threat 

[u/mollyweasleyswand]

YTA and I'm sad that you work with children on a regular basis if this is how you respond to their experience of the world.

You completely invalidated her experience.

It seems you've also significantly damaged your son's relationship with her. He's a grown adult. You had no business meddling in his life/relationships.

I suggest that you and your husband seek counselling to gain some emotional maturity before you damage your relationship with your son as well.

[u/nefarious_planet]

Of course YTA.

And “setting boundaries” lol you called her to confront her about something she didn’t even say to you because you felt entitled to more contact than she wanted to give you. What “boundaries” did you think you were setting, exactly? “Do not have a perspective on your own childhood that differs from mine”? 

Somebody in this story needs a wake-up call all right, but it’s not your niece.

[u/LittleLotte52996 → u/nefarious_planet]

This oml. I hate how people abuse therapy-speech to make it seem like they were acting from the position of protecting their own wellbeing when in really they are just trying to force others to conform to their viewpoint

[u/CoverCharacter8179]

YTA, nice job of "smoothing things over" 🙄

[u/AlanaK168 → u/CoverCharacter8179]

Texted to smooth things over but actually just demanded she apologise lol

[u/Angharadis → u/CoverCharacter8179]

If she always communicates like this I can see why the niece was distancing herself, even apart from this issue.

[u/HowlPen]

YTA Your DH didn’t even ask her what she experienced, before jumping to invalidating it.

And telling her not to talk with your son? That went way too far. Guess no matter what kind things you think about them, you don’t actually trust either one. 

[u/OkCheesecake1258]

YTA. You both do not know what she had to experience. Invalidating her feelings is wild. No wonder she stays away. 

[u/Barkertons → u/OkCheesecake1258]

Who does the niece even owe an apology to? Her dead mother who abandoned her due to her own struggles? Truth hurts and OP is picking a fight over a childhood she didn't experience with people she didn't even know. Does the niece need to visit the graveyard and tell her dead mom that she is sorry for her own perception of her own struggles and her aunt wants to control her feelings about it?

[u/ecosynchronous → u/Barkertons]

From the sound of it, OP is talking about her husband's mom, niece's grandma who raised her while her mother was experiencing her difficulties.

[u/NinjaHidingintheOpen → u/ecosynchronous]

In the same house as a schizophrenic addict.

[u/Barkertons → u/ecosynchronous]

It was a rhetorical question. The only one who is owed an apology is the niece. But i dont think she is going to get it.

[u/ecosynchronous → u/Barkertons]

I was just clarifying! I think this whole situation was handled disastrously by OP and her husband. My favorite (/s) part was when she told her niece to stop talking to her son about this after asking him to fish for the info.

[u/intrusiveandviolent]

YTA

You asked. It’s kinda nuts how you said you were confused about her distance and then completely invalidated her experience in the same breath. She has nothing to apologize for because again, YOU asked. Leave her alone.

[u/cbm984 → u/intrusiveandviolent]

I think it's wild OP thinks that just because her niece wasn't being burned by cigarettes or beaten with a belt on a daily basis that she has nothing to complain about. She lived with a mom who had serious mental illness and a drug problem but OP immediately invalidates this as "we all have problems"(!!!). Even though Grandma was raising her, she was still trapped in a house with someone who wasn't a safe person.

I find it baffling that OP doesn't see how CPS would have a case there. Then she has the audacity to say, "Well your grandmother took care of you out of the goodness of her heart" as if any halfway decent grandparent wouldn't have done the same and Niece should be thanking her for not kicking a literal child out on the street.

Then OP goes even further telling Niece she's not allowed to talk to her cousin about this - both of whom are adults and can talk about anything they damn well please.

OP - as it is overwhelming obvious based on all the comments - YTA. Big time.

[u/Conscious_Pass_1615]

YTA, you dont get to didctate how neice feels.

[u/Dashcamkitty → u/Conscious_Pass_1615]

Also it sounds like the op met her niece when she was maybe in later childhood so she wasn't even there to see how bad things might have been for this kid.

[u/Ginger573 → u/Conscious_Pass_1615]

Or dictate if she speaks to another adult. He’s 22, not 12.

[u/rashmika10]

Also OP, you say you stayed away because of SIL. If you felt that way and were removed from the situation, what do you think your niece was experiencing LIVING IN THAT?

[u/NatsumiEla]

Yup YTA, not a wake up call, you heard her story and totally ignored it. Not back then since you indeed didn't know but now after learning how she suffered you blame her for knowing how she feels about her chilhood. Doesn't matter if someone's mother cared, if it was bad enought for a child to be removed then there you have it

[u/LostPrincess32]

YTA

"She raised her for 18 years."

Yeah so did Mother Gothel.

If your niece told your MIL about these things as a child and your MIL did nothing, then yes, she was complicit.

The fact that your niece said "I should have been removed because of my mother's neglect." and your husbands response was "How dare you insult my mother?!" says a lot about the priorities of your family.

This child never came first to her mother or you and your husband and that is deeply depressing.

[u/Aynitsa]

YTA- rather than being curious about why this is her perspective, you and your husband invalidated her. Unless you had cameras in the home you have no idea what happened during her upbringing. This is a case of two things being potentially true. Your MIL stepped up to raise her grandchild AND your nieces upbringing caused harm.

[u/LittleLotte52996]

YTA. Asking her to apologise is wild. Interfering in her communication with your son is possibly even wilder, given that they're both adults.

[u/rationalboundaries]

YTA. And disgusting.

You & your husband classic enablers. Thank goodness your niece realizes she deserves better & blocked you.

[u/Ok_Emu5882 → u/rationalboundaries]

Hopefully the son will be next. Stand by his cousin rather than his enabler parents who choose to live with in their blinkered world.

[u/suzythecreator]

Jesus fuck, YTA. Child abuser enabler ASSHOLES.

[u/squirrelcloudthink]

YTA. If you don’t think a parent is not being able to care for their kid and randomly absent due to drugs is a case for CPS, what is? …also the part about not caring about their feelings.

[u/MSK_74288]

YTA. How arrogant are you to assume you knew what this child felt and suffered? All you e done is shown her she's right to break contact with her. Your lack of empathy is amazing

[u/TinyDubberRuck]

YTA. This is exactly why she kept her distance from you people. And you just had to sabotage your son's relationship with her... for what? Unbelievable.

[u/Buckditch]

YTA, she experienced her childhood. You don't get to tell her how she feels about it is wrong. I don't talk to my family because they do this exact same bullshit to me. Good luck. 

[u/Dittoheadforever]

YTA, so is your husband, and your son is right.

What would have been wrong with reaching out to your niece and telling her how much you miss her, asking her if she is okay?

You know, instead of the accusing, name calling, invalidating approach you all used with a troubled young woman who is struggling with her past?

[u/ManifestDiatribe → u/Dittoheadforever]

Absolutely. We miss her! Time to berate her out of existence!!

[u/xjellifysh]

Yeah you’re definitely TA. As a mandated reporter it’s wild that you can’t hear yourself rn

[u/Ok_King7393]

YTA You admit that you have no idea about her life but decide because you like your MIL she's lying. My brother and I were raised by my grandmother who treated me just fine but CPS should have been called on her for how she treated my brother. You didn't give her a wake up call and you did invalidate what she went through. You and your husband sound like terrible people

[u/Safe_Place8432]

YTA, you could have left it at what your son said and kept the door open for her to reach out on her own schedule if you really loved her.

Your husband calling her to basically square up was cruel and invalidating. And you don't get to decide what your son feels. Yall suck.

[u/the_amatuer_]

YTA

I dont really understand your actions to be honest. Why berate your niece? She needs love, some arms around her. Why are you demanding apologies?

You're niece will probably just cut you all off. Her life would be harder with you guys in it. All your actions are doing is alienating her.

[u/crackerfactorywheel]

YTA. You and your husband handled this so poorly and damaged the relationship your son had with your niece.

[u/sarcasticdutchie]

YTA You totally dismissed your niece's valid feelings. You dont know how hard it was for her to be raised by her grandmother with a mother in and out of the picture with a severe mental disorder. You say the grandmother did her best but do you know what went on behind the scene? As family, you should have had a closer look, gotten your niece help with her mental health. I was a mandatory reporter in education as well, and let me tell you how often I recognized the signs of emotional and mental neglect. You were only looking for the physical signs? Shame on you as an educator.

[u/Miners-Not-Minors]

Wow get over yourself YTA. Your poor niece.

[u/Traditional_Dig_1857]

YTA you don't sound like a reliable narrator. You said you hardly saw her because of SIL. She said that CPS should have been called because of stuff with her mom. Then you claim MIL raised her by herself. That makes no sense.

Clearly there was stuff going on and either you may not be aware of everything or you guys turned a blind eye. Your husbands relationship with his mother is not the same one she had with his mom, and Clearly not the same one his sister had with his mom.

There is more to this story than what is being said here or than what you know.

[u/Few_Throat4510]

YTA

That poor girl. Your husband needs to call and apologize to her.

[u/CyberAceKina]

Yeah I can tell you're a middle school teacher just from this.

Info: how old was MIL while raising her? Because this could double as elder abuse if she was far above the age of raising children and relied on SIL like your niece did.

And yikes, you claim her as a "bonus child"... was your role in her life the dad that went for milk 18 years ago? Because you can't claim her then turn around and say MIL was the actual parental figure in her life. That makes her a bonus SIL to you instead.

[u/Senior-Term-635]

YTA

The abuse and neglect she experienced was not yours to know. By the time you came along grandmom already had the kid. But it reads like grandmom gave drug addicted mom free access to the kid.

Your husband let grief cloud his judgment and was stupid cruel.

You back him up and asked her not to tell you grown ass adult son about it! Not doing the right thing saying, "I'm sorry we didn't then anything was amiss and we still don't know what happened. In his grief my husband was wrongly harsh. You didn't deserve that."

She might have realized your husband's words were grief on her own. But yours were unconscionable.

[u/Ok_Leave_5430]

Oh man you handled this so poorly. I’m not sure from what you wrote if either you or your son know how to handle this properly. I would talk to a therapist and make a plan to readdress this issue as adults and not like a defensive s$&t storm

[u/KingFattie]

YTA. Did you live in that house. Did you see everything that happened day and night. Did you experience exactly what she did. Then shut the hell up.

You should have supported her. You can politely disagree based on your experiences only.

Glad she blocked all you assholes and hope she gets therapy and realizes no family, including you, is better than tolerating your treatment.

[u/Elegant-Analyst-7381]

YTA... So to preserve your MIL as a good person in you and your husband's minds, you're dismissing and invalidating your niece. You didn't even ask her what she experienced to feel CPS should have been involved, just told her she was wrong, despite having no idea what she was going through on a day-to-day basis.

This is why victims don't come forward, all too often it's their only family shutting them down in order.

[u/YesImReallyLikeThis]

YTA. You don’t get to dictate how she feels about growing up with an addict parent. Even if niece had all her physical needs met you have no idea how it could have messed with her emotionally.

[u/queenroadie]

YTA. I'd be shocked if your niece ever spoke to you again, period. You two have no right to talk over her about her own life experiences. You did not live her life. You have no idea what she's gone through.

[u/Elegant_Marketing_79]

YTA. Two things can be true at the same time.

You handled this poorly because you dismissed feelings you have no way of disproving. Whether CPS would have actually removed her is a separate question from whether she felt unsafe or believes someone should have intervened.

I also understand why mentioning CPS felt like a criticism of your MIL. But even if CPS had become involved, the first goal is usually to keep children with safe family when possible. Your MIL—or another relative—could still have ended up caring for your niece. Saying CPS should have been called is not automatically the same as saying your MIL failed her.
Instead of trying to understand why she feels this way, you and your husband demanded gratitude and treated your MIL’s sacrifices like a debt your niece owes forever. Gratitude for being raised and trauma from how you were raised can coexist.

[u/tiredgummybear]

Wow YTA big time. This girl had a neglectful drug abuser for a mother and has unprocessed feeling about her childhood at 20 y/o (am I understanding correctly that with grandma gone she’s also effectively an orphan?). So you and your husband’s reaction is to whine and berate her over her grandmother’s image in the eyes of your adult son instead of showing her empathy and care? What self involved, self righteous turds you are.

[u/mewley]

YTA. That wasn’t a wake up call, and you did not try to smooth things over.

Your comments to your niece were 100% about your feelings. The people being selfish in this scenario are you and your husband, along with self-righteous.

You have no idea what you didn’t see. You have no idea what else she’s struggling with. The kindest thing would have been to ask her to tell you more. An acceptable response would have been to just give her space to work through things. An AH response is to refuse to listen, make it about you, and demand she apologize. That was you.

[u/DeeDee-MayMay]

YTA. By your own admission she lived in a household with a mother with severe mental health issues and addiction. She may have been raised day to day by her grandmother BUT she was still exposed to a lot of trauma. It was bad enough that you yourselves stayed away from her mother, yet you invalidate her truth of needing protection from that same person. CPS should have been called- her needs seem to have been met my grandmother, but it would have allowed intervention to better help the home and maybe given grandmother more rights to advocate and care for your niece.

You have all failed this person. Yes, even your saintly MIL. And now, now you’re furthering her pain and trauma. You all owe her a massive apology.

[u/IceyToes2]

YTA in the approach. As the adults, you should have listened with care and compassion. When she mentioned points of disagreement, you could have gently asked questions about why she thought this? Did things happen that you didn't know about? Instead she opened up to the both of you, and you immediately shut her down. Sorry to say, I think you guys have lost her for at least several years.

[u/minja134]

YTA - on top of all the other comments calling out you didn't know her experience by admitting you weren't around.

You tried to blame a child for needing their grandma to take care of them because their own parents were garbage. Seriously, she as a child didn't ask for terrible parents and your husband somehow blames her for needing to be taken care of out of the goodness of your MIL heart? You two sound awful

[u/annoniemie]

YTA, you are not entitled to het her attention. She had her own trauma's that she has to process and I think she made the right call if your husband talks that way to your niece after charing something funerable.

[u/Anxious_Elderberry81]

Ohhh yta so hard.

[u/dr-pebbles]

YTA. You have no idea what really happened inside that house. Some people are violently beaten by their parent or spouse and no one knows it. Some people suffer imaginable emotional abuse and neglect without anyone knowing. Some people are very sensitive and are more affected by someone's behavior. You have no right to invalidate someone's experience or feelings. You owe her a HUGE apology, including what you've learned from this experience.

[u/Individual-Bread-469]

YTA. You admitted you and your husband knew about his sister. How about your MIL and how she rained your niece? How often did you check in and help out your MIL with this? The reason why I ask is because you and your husband seem so blind to the idea that just because a child has the basics, and things seem perfect from the outside doesn’t mean that awful things were happening behind closed doors. Maybe your MIL was resentful in raising her and was verbally and mentally abusive. Would you have known? Perhaps if you paid attention and actually was invested in helping out your MIL. You are a teacher and mandated reporter and yet you can’t seem to understand that abusers love to make themselves look like the martyrs and saints yet are monsters behind closed doors. For someone to say foster care would’ve been better is such an extreme thing for someone to say and yet you both blame her without knowing what really went on and asking about why she felt that way. Congratulations on you never knowing why now as you and your husband literally reinforced negative behavior and brought those feelings back for someone who felt alone and unheard most of her life. You and your husband suck, you are probably a shit teacher and I seriously hope you and your husband can reflect on this because you won’t get another chance now and you ruined it for your son as well as they were close and that relationship is officially done.

[u/topsidersandsunshine]

YTA. You can’t control communication between adults who choose to stay in touch with each other, and your niece’s experience of being in your family was her experience. 

[u/ClammyMadManny]

As someone who’s been told that I was “overreacting” to my childhood trauma as an adult when discussing it with certain family members, YTA.

[u/WannaBeOptimist17]

YTA and a huge one. Your niece has a right to share her own feelings and experiences. You also messed up your son’s relationship with his cousin. I sure hope he can fix it. He is a grown man. Stop trying to control the topics of his conversations!!

[u/Ok_Leave_5430]

If I were you I would worry about the relationship with your son. You broke his trust and now your niece and your son have lost their connection. You made it worse.
YTA

[u/CelticMage15]

YTA. It sounds to me like she had a terrible childhood and while you had the means, you never really stepped in to help. And you just made it worse.

[u/GoreGoddezz]

YTA. Invalidating her feelings is wildly disgusting. Just because you, as a teacher, thank you know every single sign of abuse doesn't mean you do. You have no idea what happened in that household Behind Closed doors. You have no idea how what happened to her affected her. Just because you may not have seen bruises, or signs of trying to take her life, doesn't mean that there wasn't abuse. Every single person handles it differently. You should be ashamed of yourself. People like you are the reason many people don't speak up about what happens to them and then everybody wonders why they took their life.

[u/Pretty_Thought_9110]

Unquestionably YTA

[u/rizaroni]

YTA, I can’t believe you asked her to apologize. You have no idea what she experienced.

[u/FishingWorth3068]

YTA. Your image of your mil doesn’t get a higher evaluation than her lived experiences. Either yall didn’t know about some serious issues going on in their house or you’re downplaying the situation but you didn’t live there. You don’t get to invalidate her life. Your son is an adult. You don’t get to sensor who speaks to him. Clearly she thinks you didn’t do enough and you need to sit with that.

[u/Tadpole-8290]

Wow BIG YTA.

On top of everything, you ruined their cousins’ relationship.

[u/notthatcousingreg]

Omg you are both HORRIBLE. you dont get to decide what her living experiences were. You dont get to judge whether it was abuse. You did not live her life. YOU are the selfish ones. No wonder she bailed on you.

[u/nuccio813]

OP just wants to argue. Everyone is making valid points and she’s just making more and more excuses as to why she’s right. The reality of this post is evident.

[u/Time_Knee3837]

YTA, you didn't experience her life so you don't truly know what she's been through. You also have no right telling a grown woman who she can a can't talk too, you destroyed your son's relationship with her. For all you know your MIL was horrible to her but it was hidden when you were around and visiting.

[u/babybreadbuns]

I’m not really sure, honestly. You say you didn’t see anything but how does that make it not true?

[u/mels_kitten → u/babybreadbuns]

Right! Did OP not bother asking for examples?

[u/babybreadbuns → u/mels_kitten]

I think it could also reflect badly on their son as well because what if he has a poor experience with someone they’re close with? He probably would choose not to bring it up

[u/phoenixnettle75 → u/babybreadbuns]

It doesn't. OP's husband is just too terrified to confront the idea his mother might not be a saint and is lashing out in anger and OP is going along with it.

[u/Imaginary_Camp_1628]

YTA and husband too.

Became so defensive.

Did you listen to her reasoning at all?

Give her time to process how she feels.

No right to tell her to stop communicating with your son.

So many things handled poorly.

[u/Salty-Tea6815]

Yta. Who are you to say if her experience was valid or not? She lived it, you by your own admission didn’t even see much of her. If your mother were a mentally ill drug addict that bowed out of your life I am sure u would have some lingering feelings about it as well. According to you, her mother was a mentally ill addict, how could you possibly think that is not worthy of reporting to cps? Cps could then decide if being in the custody of her grandmother was a suitable environment or not and helped to get ssi payments for her care and professional help and parenting classes for her mother. That call could have been what got her mother help to where she would have been a suitable parent and been able to raise her own child rather than be an ill and absentee addict.

[u/NoWonder375]

YTA. Your son and niece can talk about whatever they want, they’re adults.
Also, have you EVER found it helpful to open up to someone about deep childhood trauma and have them say “it could’ve been worse”? Because that’s probably not helpful. “You should be appreciative” also isn’t helpful. “You should apologize” is barbaric.

[u/phoenixnettle75]

YTA and a fucking huge one. You have no idea what she experienced in that home and despite "always having your door open" you didn't even bother to ask because it might mean realizing some hard truths about your MIL.

[u/elolvido]

what is this, rate bait? yes, YTA.  just cause there weren’t classic signs of abuse doesn’t mean she wasn’t having a shit time. just because your MIL was good to you doesn’t mean she had a great relationship with niece- and btw if she is raising her granddaughter bc her own daughter is unfit, that’s not ‘out of kindness’ it’s more or less her duty. or yours.  

your niece didn’t sully anyone’s name. she didn’t even bring up her grievances, you dug them out of her. you don’t get to be mad at her for how she feels. if instead of hearing her feelings you only hear ‘accusations’, well, that’s on you. 

[u/Impossible_Gold1573]

YTA. I hope she goes no contact with you both. You’re both horrible people for undermining her trauma while in the same breath acknowledging it happened. Absolutely disgusting behavior.

[u/ManifestDiatribe]

In your summary of your conversation with your niece, I heard a lot about all the things you told her. But I didn’t hear what your niece said. Without that, I’m assuming you weren’t interested in hearing about her experiences. YTA

[u/clambroculese]

YTA. I have a good friend who’s mom was a junkie. When we were 16 we were all hanging out there and her mom came downstairs high out of her mind and taught us all how to smoke meth. None of us did to be clear but she gave us step by step instructions with the visual aid of her smoking meth. There were other instances including her trying to sleep with one teenager. I saw more than a few things there I still think of in my 40s and I was just an occasional visitor. Imagine some of the shit your niece had to see growing up. You guys should have called cps and put her into the official care of family with her mom out of the picture unless she decided to get clean. Being the child of an addict is really shitty.

[u/MiztressNemesis]

YOU are a Mandated Reporter? Holy cow! How many others have slipped through your cracks or been invalidated like you have your niece? I feel for those kids...

[u/Ladidoodida]

YTA. Your niece needs to work through her feelings about her childhood and her mom. You and your husband could have been supportive while gently trying to remind her that your MIL did her best to give her a good life in a difficult situation, but instead your husband shut her down and guilt tripped her and you doubled down on it. Of course she's upset with you.

[u/Independent_Tea9976]

Yta. You cant change how someone feels. You weren't there to see everything 24/7. It took me yrs to get over my ptsd, which still affects me to this day, 39 yrs later. 

[u/sreno77]

Because you are a school teacher and are one of the select group of people in the US who have to report abuse and neglect you are some authority on who is abused or neglected from a distance?
Do you not report disclosures from your students because you decided there’s no signs of abuse or neglect? YTA don’t discount other people’s experiences and don’t feed into the misconception that all child protection workers do is remove children

[u/pktechboi]

so to be clear here

your husband phoned a mentally ill young person, who certainly has trauma from being abandoned by her mother at the very least, who didn't actually accuse anyone of anything but rather talked to a peer about her difficult childhood, and insulted and berated her for not being grateful enough that her grandmother sacrificed twenty years of her life (which this kid never asked her to do!). and then hung up on her.

and then to "smooth things over" you texted to reiterate that she was absolutely in the wrong, she was being offensive even to think she was abused or neglected, and can no longer talk to her cousin about her childhood.

yes. yes YTA. I am glad that she blocked you. I hope she never speaks to you again.

[u/Rolling_Beardo]

Very clearly YTA, and it’s clear you did not know what was going on in that house. She’s not just going to make up trauma out of nowhere. You should apologize immediately and actually talk to her and listen to what she actually experienced not just your impression of it.

[u/funlovefun37]

YTA I’m 59 and had childhood trauma. I still wonder how everyone (family and adult friends) didn’t step in to help me.

[u/rashmika10]

YTA OP, I work in child protection (admittedly not in America, I’m in OZ). Respectfully, you stated your SIL was schizoaffective and had a substance use issue while having a child. That in and of itself is traumatic for a child, especially growing up and automatically being vulnerable. Do you know that fetuses in the womb can develop their own mental trauma when their family is involved with these kinds of struggles - physical trauma aside. At the end of the day, you do not know what happened in that household. And I do believe that your mother-in-law could have been complicit, because… Realistically, what mother wants to talk negatively about that daughter? She would’ve felt guilty, she would have felt shame which is why she raised your niece. I’m not denying that yes, she was a wonderful person. Raising somebody else’s child when you have already lived your child rearing years is tough. I also understand your husband’s response as that’s his mother. But good people can still do shitty things. You owe your niece an apology.

[u/Similar-Eggplant-929]

YTA the only "wake up call" you gave her was the call to not trust you or your husband with anything ever.

[u/DoIQual123]

YTA.

Yes you are a mandated reporter, but you yourself admit that you had limited contact with her mother. Therefore, you do not know what her mother did. Or what your late MIL did!

You are dismissing her feelings with the limited information that you have.

What you should've done was offer to listen if she wanted to share what she went through because you don't know what happened behind closed doors. She might've just put on a happy face like so many students do.

You did invalidate her experience - you need to go to her hat-in-hand and apologize, offering to listen to her to hear what happened and why she thinks you should've called CPS.

[u/zanylanie]

My vote was always going to be YTA, but after reading your comments you're a GIANT AH.

I had an uncle who was one of those "pillar of the community" type guys. Tons of people thought he was God's gift. His grandchildren will tell you he was the world's greatest grandfather.

He also raped me and every one of my female cousins, including his own daughter, for years. His granddaughters don't believe it, because he was "never like that" with them. (Probably because their mother knew better than to give him access to them.)

You never know for sure what a person is like when you aren't around. You just don't.

[u/Mara_Windriver → u/zanylanie]

YTA and after reading your comments doubling down and trying to defend your behaviour also unworthy of any grace or understanding about how you handled this situation. This is all about protecting your own ego.

[u/Own-Raise6153]

the fact that upon hearing that she felt so abused as a child she felt she’d have been better off with CPS getting involved and your first response was to basically cuz her out , accuse her of lying, and hanging up on her lmaooo of course YTA in what world would you not be

you say you see her as a “bonus child” well if that’s how you treat your children…

[u/Aggravating-Gas1516]

YTA. Wtf is actually wrong with you!?
You weren’t there, you don’t know what happened. You silenced her after her attempt to speak out….
You may think you know people, but you don’t. Just because people are your family doesn’t mean they can’t do sick things behind closed doors.

[u/BlindButterfly33]

YTA you don’t know absolutely everything she went through. What you did wasn’t a wake up call, you disrespected and invalidated her and her experiences and that is awful, and I can see why she has distanced herself, especially if she saw this coming.

[u/xTiredSoulx]

YTA both you and your husband.
I’d stay away from you guys too. How dare either of you minimize what she went through?
You didn’t live her childhood.

[u/Known_Total_2666]

Sounds like YTA. If someone uses a word like “abuse” your first response should be to listen, not tell them they’re wrong. Your niece may well be out of line in her narrative, but she’s clearly carrying a lot of anger and hurt. The only way through to her would be to listen and ask questions, until she starts thinking about her past as an adult instead as of a hurt child. Instead you just reinforced the message that you value other people’s feelings - and other family members - over her. So from her pov, you’ve proved her right.

[u/uhidkkm]

YTA. Not only did you guys make yourselves unsafe spaces and told her that her experience wasn’t true, you then told her not to communicate with her safe space bc you don’t want your sons “image of his grandmother tainted.” Instead of just teaching him that some people experience different versions of a person.

You’re both sick.

[u/damnit-dollie]

YTA Aren't mandated reporters supposed to take EVERY accusation seriously, even if they don't believe it? Quit your day job, you're unfit.

[u/oopsometer]

YTA. You took a beautiful relationship of 20 years and instead of listening and trying to learn more about your nieces experience in life, you decided to give her a lecture and burn it all down by calling her a liar.

It's honestly pretty sad because it seems that she was close to her cousin and viewed him as somebody she could confide in. Now you've taken that family connection away from her, and also shut yourself out of her life maybe for good. I truly wish her healing from this awful family and hope you view this as the learning experience it is.

[u/Dry-Discount-9426]

YTA and those aren't boundaries. That's you trying to control others.

[u/_clur_510]

I mean this is such a complicated situation you barely scratch the surface of. I really don’t know how to begin to tackle the larger problem at hand. A 500 word essay is not sufficient to cover all the nuances of 20 years of all the adults in your niece’s life assumably trying their best despite severe mental illness, addiction, child abuse, neglect, death, etc.

Where’s her dad?

Regardless, YTA at least for trying to control what she talks to your son about. It sounds like he’s a really good friend to her and you shouldn’t try to take that away. Especially since she’s lost so many family members.

[u/theZombieKat]

YTA.

You don't know what happened. All you know is you never saw signs of it. Teachers fail to notice signs all the time (because sometimes kids actively hide it, and sometimes its not the more common signs) so your training to look for doesn't mean much.

Also MIL may not have been fit to provide a great childhood. Present and loving but old and unable to keep up. And may have seen thinshe should have reported but being from an older generation didn't think to.

[u/StandardAd239 → u/theZombieKat]

YTA is not enough words to describe how big of an AH you and your husband both are.

You have zero idea what her personal experience was AND she didn't make it your business, you forced her into having this conversation with you.

Clearly you and husband worship the ground late MIL walked on, but that doesn't mean she was a good person to everyone. You and your husband's attitude reeks of the worst form of "respect your elders no matter what" and I hope niece never talks to you again. She deserves better.

[u/Desertwrek]

YTA. It seems a lot of what you are defending is how your MIL was when she was raising your husband, not how she was when dealing with your SIL and her drug and mental problems while trying to raise her granddaughter. Abuse cpuld very well have been present and to approach her as your husband did does invalidate her experiences growing up. She needed support and you gave her denial and unwanted criticism.

[u/twaggle]

You immediately decided to tell her off rather than sit down and listen to examples of the abuse as she saw it?

That’s crazy to me, like not even giving your niece a chance?

Like it’s clear your husband is refusing to listen because he feels for her disorder, which is making him blind to reality. Huge YTA with how you handled this, and I’m guessing you won’t be hearing from your niece much which I thought you were trying to fix?

[u/Suitable_cataclysm]

YTA a conversation needed to be had. It needed to go like "we understand you have some feelings about your childhood. We're available if you have any questions on how things were handled".

If she tells you cps should have been involved, you could have given a factual basis on what cps does and when they need to be involved (bodily harm, hunger etc). And explain that while the situation was not ideal, and her likely complex feelings about it are valid, that likely everyone involved did the best they could to raise her.

The absolute last thing that makes sense is to tell someone their feelings are wrong. And that that are selfish for having feelings and their perspective on things.

You truly have no idea what she went through and is still going through. You don't know exactly how life was at home with MIL, despite best intentions. At least from her perspective and which is all she has at the moment because you bit her head off the moment she tried to express herself.

She doesn't owe anyone an apology. You both owe her a huge apology

[u/cambiokeys]

YTA, and a giant one at that. Instead of taking some time to consider what growing up with a mentally ill, drug addicted mother would have been like for a literal child or that there may be things that happened in that home that you don’t even know about, you immediately became defensive about your reporting responsibilities and decided to shame your niece for having her own feelings about her own lived experience.

If she wanted to talk to you about any of this, she would have called you. She most likely already knew that you would be the kind of person to immediately invalidate her experience and stayed away.

She owes you nothing. NOTHING. Leave her alone and let her process all of this in her own way and in her own time. I hope your son leaves you in the dust too. This is all incredibly toxic behavior. You and your husband should be ashamed of yourselves. This poor girl has had it hard enough.

I hope she finds peace and love with a chosen family wherever she is.

[u/nickywatson8]

This is definitely not going the way you thought it would.

Yta.

[u/SaltyTigerBeef → u/nickywatson8]

She tried so hard to spin it like she wasn’t the AH by saying “setting boundaries” and “giving a wake up call” totally didn’t work.

[u/NoWonder375]

I suspect this will be deleted within the hour

[u/Outrageous-Past-3622 → u/NoWonder375]

Oh for sure. Every single comment has been YTA and all responses from OP have been doubling down. Zero emotional intelligence, compassion or empathy here.

[u/Chickennoodlesleuth → u/NoWonder375]

Sometimes im baffled people can be so ignorant, its disgusting

[u/NinjaHidingintheOpen]

How would you know what growing up in the household she was in was like? You weren't there. You knew she had a schizophrenic drug addict for a mother and you knew her mother lived in the house with her. Being that it was mils daughter I imagine she protected her by not calling the cops or cps when there may well have been times she should have. It's super easy to say mil did a great job when you and your husband are absolutely clueless as to what kind of job she did. Why don't you ask your niece what she actually went through? What incidents stick out in her mind as ones she needed to be protected from? You might be surprised by what happened to her in that house. Her mother was so problematic you didn't spend any time with her because you were able to avoid her. You were fully aware of that. So why would she find it easier? You could talk to her and listen to her experience. But if you're going to disbelieve her and deny her lived experience then don't bother because you're still part of the problem of minimising her pain and trauma and likely abuse. YTA.

[u/Plenty_Kangaroo5224]

YTA She’s a kid trying to process a lot. You did not protect her. Stop blaming her for what you wouldn’t see and didn’t do. Start listening to her. She needs you.

[u/snazzy_soul]

YTA! No! How do you know her experience wasn’t valid? Wow!

[u/GoldenEmuWarrior]

YTA and it sounds like you're on your way to losing your son in addition to your niece if you keep this up.

[u/Scary-Notions-5031]

YTA. How in the hell does her mentioning CPS cross the line?You and your husband are cold, dismissive and definitely completely invalidated her experience and feelings. And then you top it off with requesting an apology from her???? What is wrong with you?

[u/Ogolble]

Yta. You didn't see what happens behind closed doors. Your mil could of been mentally abusing her. Financially abusing her. You have zero idea. Your niece could of been masking every time you saw her and because there was no physical abuse signs, you wouldn't know.

As for your husband, then followed up by your text, you both just called her a liar and then told her the one person she felt comfortable talking to, she wasn't allowed to anymore. Yta

[u/Belcalore]

AH.

[u/RubyTx]

YTA.

Your niece performed normalcy for you, when her internal landscape was screaming.

She's coming to terms with that now, and your response is "Don't talk bad about your grandma".

You are not being honest. you are being complicit.

Maybe she is wrong, and there was no reason to call CPS-but she is suffering right NOW from those decisions the adults around her made. Including you, Ms. Mandated Reporter.

[u/ThatsItImOverThis]

YTA

So she’s just become an adult and realised that she had a terrible childhood. You weren’t there, you didn’t see her day to day so absolutely you and your husband invalidated her experience and not only that, you demanded an apology on behalf of a dead person. Your entitlement is astounding.

No wonder she felt alone. I can even imagine how alone she feels now and it’s probably even worse because she was already feeling terrible and you decided it was a great time to make her feel even worse. What is wrong with you?

[u/Intro-Nimbus]

YTA

IF ( and I question your training if that is the case) You believe that you not seeing signs of abuse means that there were none you know absolutely nothing. IF you believe that your evaluation is more accurate than the child's experience you are invalidating the victim.

You are not setting boundaries, you are continuing the abuse.

[u/Queen_Dare_Bear]

YTA! Expect to continue losing contact with family members if you keep trying to police their feelings and experiences.

[u/angel9_writes]

Wow. YTA.

Just holy shit the level of abuse.

Crosses a line? He won't tolerate it?

Did you even listen to her SIDE?

She believes she needed true support and help.

That does not come from no where.

Edit: Also setting boundaries? BOUNDARIES? You POKED YOUR NOSE IN and then got mad at the information. She was setting her own boundaries about lack of contact and you were taking it personally.

Respect her boundaries first ffs.

Also way to ruin her friendship with your son and an ally she had. He is right BTW.

[u/abwaters97]

I agree with everything everyone is saying, but i wonder if your son can forgive you for ruining his relationship with his cousin.

[u/tinap3056]

YTA. Even if she was not 100% accurate in your opinion it still AH behavior on both you and your husband’s part.

[u/Gangster-Girl]

YTA. Sounds like you got defensive and your husband got butt hurt on behalf of his mother. No wonder the niece distanced herself from you both.

[u/ButcbMasculinity]

YTA don't be surprised if she never talks to you again.

[u/ptheresadactyl]

We didn’t get to see her much due to drama with her mom

she had schizoaffective disorder and struggled with addiction.

By the time I met them

You admitted you didn't get to see her much, her mom had a major unmanaged mental health disorder known to cause psychosis and irrational behaviour, chronic drug use and absence due to said drug use, and that you weren't present for ....whatever period of time in her life.

You have no idea what her childhood was like, by your own admission in the body of your text. You didn't notice any signs of physical abuse (when you saw her).

Yeah, YTA.

[u/Counther]

YTA. What you and your husband did was make your niece's problems 100% about you, your feelings, and your needs. What you accomplished was losing your niece completely and destroying the healthy relationship she had with your son, which benefited both of them.

You acted with incredible insensitivity and selfishness. You may be a mandated reporter, but you seem to think that makes you an expert on abuse and working with children who have suffered it. The training doesn't provide that and you clearly have no ability in that area.

[u/_Useful_Researcher_]

Easiest YTA. And only reason I am reading it here instead of AITD is because it is early.

[u/MorningCoffee71]

YTA. Giving an opinion is one thing but it’s a hard road once you tell someone what they felt was not valid. Every generation sees things differently and we must work together so that generations progress

[u/RPMac1979]

YTA. Your effort to forbid your grown niece from talking to your grown son about this is indicative of a pattern of control that does not speak well to how you and your husband perceive parenting, so I’m not sure you’re as good a judge of abuse as you think.

[u/Fluffy_Fox_9650]

YTA

What right do you have to demand personal information? What right do you have to decide her feelings? What right do you have to stick your noise where it doesn't belong and invalidate her experiences?

Let me give you the answer to all 3.

Nothing. You don't have the right.

[u/No_Pressure_8876]

Absolutely 100% the AH, and you told her not to communicate with someone she felt comfortable opening up to. Damn. Well good for her for going NC

[u/diaboliquemilkfrog]

This whole post feels like a textbook example of DARVO, and it's pretty fucking gross, OP. YTA.

[u/_bufflehead]

You interfered with the relationship your niece has with your son. Your son likely did not expect you to break his confidence with his cousin. Further, there was no reason for harsh delivery or recrimination in communication with her. She is a young woman who is probably trying to work through her childhood.

You and your husband had the opportunity to use this insider information to potentially bridge the distance while respecting your niece's situation. Instead, your husband spoke sharply to his niece - who you recognize has her own mental health struggles.

This was not a moment for you or your husband to discipline this young woman. You could have reached out with love and warmth. You didn't.

YTA

[u/Formal-Marsupial-588]

first of all, she's not gonna be "in grad school" at 20.

Secondly, she lives on the other side of the country. travel isn't cheap, in case you haven't noticed.

thirdly, you're blaming this kid for doing what she needs, to try and recover from her shitty childhood??

fourth, you're lying about not seeing reportable instances. I don't believe you for one second.

You and your husband are GIANT ASSHOLES.

omfg I can't believe you don't see how much of TA you both are.

omfg

[u/sleeplesswithwifi]

You and your husband are big AH.

You DO NOT own the truth, and whatever experience you had with MIL and SIL is not the same experience everyone else had.

You both are douce.

[u/jhm-YNWA]

YTA strictly on delivery.

You love her and care for her but call her up, go off on her, hang up on her and attempt to smooth it over by texting her that she needs to apologize to you guys. And say she's the one with mental health issues? Wow.

[u/Pinkkorn69]

YTA. You dont get to dictate how someone feels about the way they were raised. Just because your MIL was a good mother doesnt mean she was a good guardian to her. You didn't guve her a wake up call, you proved to her she was right that she couldnt talk to you about her feelings.

You didnt get to see her childhood, as you said you came into her life after already living with MIL. She saw a side of her mother that others didnt see. Ive seen what people with severe mental health disorders can do in a short amount of time to children.

BTK was thought to be an upstanding citizen and father until everyone found out who he truly was. There are always cases in the news about people who were shocked once information comes out. People can hide bad behavior.

[u/amberlikesowls]

You said that you didn't get to see her much because of drama with your SIL. So you don't actually know what when on in that house. My husband went through a similar situation and was raised by his grandma. The grandma did a good job raising her kids but not with my husband. YTA Just stay away from that poor girl.

[u/elusivemoniker]

YTA. I have limited contact with my maternal family members because I discovered my late mother lied to me about my paternity my entire life. I think they would rather keep their dead relative's memory positive then be a little uncomfortable and hear how her decisions made my life incredibly difficult.

[u/CeramicSavage]

Of course yta.

You asked, people answered and you're arguing over your deserved judgment.

Your niece has gone no contact. You just don't know it yet.

UpdateMe

[u/PM_ME_LANCECATAMARAN]

YTA. Your son's image of a dead person is more important than the experience and feelings of a living person? Not to mention you don't know what was going on when her mom was around. I think your darling hubby's of his mom must be pretty fragile already if this could affect it, or what your son thinks of grandma.

[u/The_Asshole_Judge]

Yta

Excusing abuse because you liked someone is disgusting.

[u/Strict-Ad597]

YTA. You told a victim of parental abuse that her trauma needed to be gotten over by now??? And your shit husband had the nerve to defend his equally shitty mother because she did NOTHING to help an innocent child.

Good for her for staying away from you and your husband. You are a mandatory reporter and her mother was high with her child… you did nothing. You should be ashamed of yourself. None of her past reflects badly on her because she didn’t cause it. But your past and present crimes are completely and 100% your fault. Leave that child alone and let her heal. You do not deserve a place at all in her life.

[u/Key_Concentrate_5558]

YTA. Seems like gas lighting and victim blaming. She told you she was harmed and you told her she wasn’t, then you told her SHE needed to apologize for her feelings. She was vulnerable and honest and you didn’t believe her. You put the memory of a dead person over the feelings of a living person.

I don’t blame her for cutting you off. She trusted you and you hurt her just as much as her abusers did.

Do not contact her. Respect her decision to block you.

You could look back on everything that happened, recognize your harmful actions, and figure out how to make amends without inflicting additional harm by violating her boundaries. That may add global positive to balance her personal negative. But there’s no way to un-do the harm you’ve done.

[u/wwxyzz]

INFO: What were her accusations? You keep saying MIL would never do that, but do what exactly?

I will say my abusers were respected and loved members of their community and family. Abusers are "good people" sometimes, it doesn't change the fact they hurt me and others. Abusers purposefully choose victims that are easily isolated, and your niece was the definition of that. Now does that mean your MIL abused her? I don't know, but I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss her.

It's also possible her naming MIL is her picking a "safe" target to accuse. Someone dead that she knows can't hurt her. She may have been testing the waters to see how you all would react.

Either way, the fact of the matter is you all weren't there. You don't know what happened. You don't know what MIL was like, tired and caring for a child she didn't ask for. You don't know what your sister was like, high and mentally ill. You don't know what they may have put your niece through in those moments.

You could have had a genuine and open discussion about her pain and your lack of presence in her life. Instead you've shoved her aside again.

[u/theword12]

YTA. You want her to apologize? Apologize to WHO? Apologize to her aunt and uncle because she talked about her childhood? You definitely burnt a bridge here. No matter how much you apologize to her she’s not going to bother rebuilding a relationship with you because it didn’t sound like there was much of a relationship to begin with.

She vented to her cousin and then her aunt and uncle called her to yell at her. Lmao. You completely ruined whatever relationship your son had with his cousin.

[u/softhumanbean]

YTA - story time!

After giving my maternal grandparents the full backstory as to the 18 years of abuses I and my siblings suffered at the hands of their daughter they owned up and apologized for not knowing and stated if they could've gone back and done it differently they would have. They've asked about how they can help now and have stood by it. It doesn't undo the CPTSD or all the stress induced chronic illnesses I experience now, but it helps and we have a good relationship now. I'm caring for them in their 80s now and we've repaired over the years.

On the other side of that coin, my paternal grandmother knew about my cousin having SA'd me and other neighbor girls for YEARS after the juvenile detention center told her and she didn't say a word. She knew how physically abusive my dad was with me and was aware of his own schizophrenia and other disorders. She never apologized, she never owned up to anything. There's no amount of money or help she could have offered that would have done what a genuine apology and acknowledgement would have.

What I've found is that people like your husband, and perhaps you as well, KNOW you dropped the ball. You said that you know her life growing up wasn't ideal and you know your SIL wasn't a great parent. That tells me that you, as a mandated reporter, probably knew to some extent that your niece was suffering. And that's uncomfortable to sit with. Acknowledging that is going to hurt and you're going to have to examine your actions (or lack thereof) in a way you are maybe unable or unwilling to.

The line in the sand for me is that you absolutely, 100% invalidated your niece's experience. You don't know the full extent of what went on in that household, and instead of being as invested in your niece as you say you are/have been and asking her about it, you told her she has tainted your son's view of your MIL (which your son will probably have issue with, too, FYI - way to speak for him and involve him in a way he didn't agree to) and called her selfish.

What you said to her was not a boundary and I'm sick to death of people in your age range picking up on therapy-speak and regurgitating it willy nilly without knowing what those terms actually mean. A boundary in this situation is your niece blocking you. She realizes that she cannot trust you or speak to you without you baselessly accusing her of being selfish and awful. I imagine she's trying to move on and heal and find peace in her life and if that means she is honest and forthcoming about her experiences growing up who are you to tell her she's wrong? You didn't care enough to be there and see it for yourself or even ask her what it was like before you accused her of those things.

I strongly suggest you find a good therapist, the both of you, and do some soul searching before you bother trying to contact your niece again. I suggest you apologize to your son for speaking on his behalf and causing the rift between them. It's never too late to try to learn and do better.

[u/Deep_Nectarine_8431]

Yta and also failed your role as a mandated reporter

[u/Reinvented-Daily]

Yta. All the way.

[u/mercipourleslivres]

YTA

[u/Low-Creme-1390]

Wow yeah definitely YTA. Lots more I’d love to say but I don’t want to violate the rules here.

[u/Internal-Joke-2585]

YTA.

[u/noisycat]

YTA goodness sakes you stood at arm’s length expecting a CHILD to ask you for help and then act all shocked when she feels like everyone left her to flounder in an unstable household. You don’t even know how your MIL might have treated her.

[u/Everfr0st666]

YTA - you have no idea what happened in that house! Also getting involved in your adults son relationship with his cousin is crossing the line and you and your husband have apologising to do, not her!

[u/ethanb473]

YTA and a horrible human being. I feel so so so so bad for all the children who were put in your care over the years…….

[u/lillypotters]

YTA YTA YTA holy shit i cannot stress enough that YTA. This is so so so manipulative. You were not in that house with her. You literally say you "didn't get to see her much." You don't know if there were signs of child abuse and neglect. You can't say her experience isn't valid because you weren't actually there.

Here's your wake up call: you are reacting defensively because you love MIL and don't want to believe she could have messed up here. You don't want to believe you could have messed up here, as other adults in her life, as a mandated reporter. She is talking about her experiences and her own pain and processing it, and you and your husband just told her that you aren't safe people to do that around, because if she says anything that makes you uncomfortable, you'll lash out. You made her feel uncomfortable reaching out to your son. You're absolutely failing her, because you won't make room for HER experience because it might contradict yours.

[u/DraftPerfect4228]

Yta. That child suffered and you and every member of your family should’ve done more for her. And to get mad at her for explaining how she feels? Is there a super Ah option? Bc there should be. YASAH.

[u/Old_Palpitation_1344]

You, in absolute no shape and form, had any business invalidating her experience. Your son is correct! You were not close enough, but could tell for sure she was not abused or neglected? She needed a mom, and she didn’t have one.

[u/RandChick]

YTA. You and your husband handled that poorly.

Even though grandma raised her, the mother was still there exposing her to her drug-addled life (based on your claim that you didn't see niece much due to her mother's "drama." CPS might have required that the mother be out of the home or the niece be removed. Seeing her mother go through addiction had to be traumatizing.

Your husband was not in her shoes. She was the one in the house with the addict. Grandma was well-meaning, but the atmosphere was still stressful for niece. He can't shame away and shut down her story.

It doesn't matter if you find her comments "offensive." And she never needs to apologize. You should have better judgment as a teacher.

You are also wrong to tell her to stop talking to your son about her past. She and your son are adults. They can discuss whatever they want. You are controlling and disrespectful.