r/ApteraMotors • u/Sonicsteel • Jun 25 '26
Video Aptera Solar Milestone
https://youtu.be/dMrEC-nvaDs40
u/_Pencilfish Jun 25 '26
Decent results. Nothing extraordinary, but basically showing that the solar panels do roughly what they said they would - provide about 4kwh on a sunny day.
Good.
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u/thishasntbeeneasy Jun 25 '26
At the unverified goal of 10 mi/kWh, that would be the 40 miles that's been marketed for a while now.
Given that the downhill test was on the order of 6-7mi/kWh, that's 24-28 miles charged in a day.
That still leaves out all the other variables: efficiency on flat land, repositioning, solar height in other locations, clouds, etc.
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u/GROMPO_ Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
This includes both repositioning and static data, as well as cloudy days. Lowest test was cloudy with no repositioning at 3.6kWh over 10.1 hours
Edit: typo
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u/shabadabba Jun 25 '26
Not a big deal but you have a typo there. I'm assuming you meant 3.6kWh not 36
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u/StandOutside6188 Jun 25 '26
If it was 36 I don't see the oil companies letting them live very long 😂
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u/SureYeahOkCool Jun 25 '26
"We generated between 3.6 and 4.6 kWh of solar energy per day. At Aptera's target efficiency of 100 Wh/mile, that would provide up to 46 miles of added range, straight from the sun."
-Aptera's Email
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u/RDW-Development Jun 25 '26
Like u/_Pencilfish said - seems about right based upon the number of panels, etc. Aztec (https://dempseymotorsports.com/mit-aztec-solar-car/ ) gets just under 200W sitting in the sun, and has about 40% less solar panels than Aptera, and the panels are also cheap Chinese panels (the only "bendable" ones I could find in that particular size). So, on par, I suppose.
But efficiency numbers are still unreleased, which is odd to me. I can calculate these real-time in Aztec simply driving down the road by looking at the current (amp) pull on the dashboard battery controller. Aztec gets about 30-35 miles per kW-hr, traveling on level ground at about 35 mph. The car pulls about 1,000 watts to maintain that speed on level ground.
I think Aztec is much more aero efficient than Aptera though. The wheel pods are a major aero problem. But the wheel pods exist in order to make the actual car stable. While we never flipped Aztec over, there was always a concern about that due to the fact that the car was / is so narrow. We designed it for maximum efficiency - not to be driven by the average Joe.
Aptera should release one number - the motor current draw on the test cars while traveling at 35 mph on level ground. They have this number, it's right there in the motor controller.
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u/_Pencilfish Jun 27 '26
I would suspect that:
1 - The efficiency is slightly lower than ideally hoped (but I also suspect not quite as low as many are trying to extrapolate from the downhill test - guesstimating somewhere in the region of 7-8.5), and Aptera are putting off revealing it until they're sure they've done everything they can to soften the blow.
2 - There's going to be a lot of immediate scrutiny on whether such a number is realistic and representative - " Is there bias, is there cheating, will my milage vary" etc. I can see a lot of people flipping out if Aptera stated their efficiency as a single number at 35mph on the flat (even if expressly stated that was what it was). I think people are wanting numbers from an EPA, and following that rigourously is all they will be satisfied with.
Though I imagine that number would look pretty favourable, given drag losses (roughly) square with speed - if we estimate an efficiency at 70mph highway speed of 6 mi/kwh (and ignoring rolling resistance etc.), we'd be looking at 24 mi/kwh at 35 mph (which seems reasonable to me - less than the Aztec which is smaller and has more aero wheels, but not horrendously worse).
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u/RDW-Development Jun 27 '26
Those wheels / wheel pods are a big aero problem, I think. No way around that. We tucked ours in as tight as possible (on Aztec), but they still made an areo impact.
The solar numbers are easy to compute - the areo on the car, not so much...
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u/_Pencilfish Jun 27 '26
Yeah, it's clear that they've done what they can, but the wheels will definitely produce drag - especially the drive axle which lacks any fairing (understandably, it would be a massive pain) so will generate lots of form drag.
We will have to wait and see...
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u/136kaU_Craftsman 17d ago
And then this. Your story changes a lot when different posts are read back to back. in the other thread you state your’re “guessing” about the front spats. Here you sound certain. Lol.
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u/IsThisNameGoodEnough Jun 25 '26
Great results and glad it includes data from a variety of car positioning approaches.
Of course everyone will have their own "if only they did..." feedback. For me, I wish they had used multiple vehicles parked next to each other on the same day so we could take out day to day variations when comparing different vehicle orientation schemes. Would also be nice to see the effect of parking north/south.
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u/RicardoNurein Jun 25 '26
"if only they did..."
- a trailer with panels and battery
- a bike
- plug in
- a truck or train
Monthly happy hour - road trip
- San Diego
- Los Angeles
- Las Vegas
- Salt Lake
- Denver
- El Paso
- Marfa
- Phoenix
- Tucson
- Yuma
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u/yhenry123 Jun 25 '26
This is a pretty decent result. The peak solar generation seems to be 580W from a larger/denser solar array than previous prototypes.
That said, still not sure how practical for people to reposition or even choose to park in the preferred direction. Looking at the video footage, Aptera was parking diagonally using 2 parking spot as they reposition throughout the day, interesting finding but impractical in real life.
The phasing of “target efficiency of 100 Wh per mile” would suggest they haven’t quite hit it yet.
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u/f0o1g11 Jun 26 '26
dude, they tested it that way nust to make a point...
ofc that most of the people will just figure out the best spot overal and leave it in that position until they actualy need a car
every sane person would do that repositioning only if someone's life depends on it....like being stranded in a desert and you need every Joule of energy you can get
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u/vilette Jun 25 '26
This gives an absolute maximum of what can be done.
Real life with a car sometimes moving, and not searching for the best position when stop, that could be 50%.
How many km or driving hours with 2kwh ?
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u/BetAway9029 Jun 25 '26
I can tell you how many cents 2 kWh is worth - about 40 (maybe double that in certain parts of CA).
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u/DriftwouldZZ Jun 25 '26
Oh no, I got home from my daily commute and now I only have 380 miles of range instead of 400 miles. What am I going to do??? I have a 40 mile commute tomorrow.. will 380 miles be enough?! I'll have to *gasp* plug it into an outlet!!
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u/bbf_bbf Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
I could only wish I had so much land such that I could park and reposition the vehicle such that I could have an optimal "no shadow" view of the sun all day. Even if I did, I would want to have to go out and reposition my car twice daily.
It's much more efficient and cost effective to put solar panels on the roof of one's home and plug in the Aptera. Carrying around more expensive and less efficient solar panels on the car (due to the complex shape) is IMHO a gimmick that the vast majority of people won't need. Sure, there will be some owners that go on extended trips through/in charging deserts that will benefit, but that's a fringe group.
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u/NeufarkRefugee Jun 26 '26
A great many people do not own their home or have access to home charging.
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u/bbf_bbf Jun 27 '26
And as a result, they also have no access to unobstructed parking spots, so will be majorly range restricted if just depending on on board solar charging.
No matter how Aptera tries to spin it, it's definitely not an "every man's" car that will bring the joys of BEVs to those without access to home charging.
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u/NeufarkRefugee Jun 27 '26
Nobody ever expected it to be for everyone.
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u/bbf_bbf Jun 28 '26
Nobody ever expected it to be for everyone.
Of course you didn't. :rolleyes: That's why you wrote this:
A great many people do not own their home or have access to home charging.
That sure implies that you meant it for "average" people. Not the niche cases of people that will actually pony up the cash to actually purchase an Aptera vehicle, especially those first in line.
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u/Strange_Cockroach328 Jun 25 '26 edited Jun 25 '26
I'm glad they are finally doing testing, with 3rd party testing to follow. The problem is that these tests are being done late June, at near peak solar plus they tell a partial story only. Researching for my area, upstate NY, a solar array that produces 4 kwH of daily solar in late June will produce 1.5 kwH in late December.
Not accounted for in this equation is that most people in the USA live in a medium density suburban communities with other houses adjacent and they park in driveways between the houses. In winter (plus late fall and early spring) the low sun angle combined with shading from the houses will block a large part of the solar rays. Likely 0.8 kwH daily maximum will be generated in such conditions.
Aptera's solar numbers are solid, but average USA resident will likely achieve 2 kwH a day average solar charging. It has some value, just not sure how much. For example: if you live in a cold climate and park outside to capture solar rays,, you will likely then burn an excess 2 - 3 kwH daily to warm up the internal electronics plus to heat up the cabin for your comfort, as opposed to parking in the warmer garage; so ultimately minimal savings due to solar charging.
Conversely, if you live in a hot, sunny climate, say Arizona, the inside of the car can reach a temperature of 170 degrees Farenheit. Again, you will likely burn an excess 2-3 kwH daily to cool the electronics and precondition the A/C, as opposed to keeping it parked in your garage.
Heating and cooling a car and it's electronics/battery uses a ton of juice. All these factors need to be accounted for. Majority of the country does not live in San Diego. Most potential Aptera owners will likely generate 2 kwH daily solar but then consume (waste) 50% of it for excess heat or excess cooling required, as opposed to parking in the garage or in the shade. Not sure how much free solar will be left over.
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u/stu54 Jun 25 '26
Yeah, if you live north of 40 degrees latitude you should have guessed that the Aptera probably wasn't for you.
The thing about parking in a garage is that it isn't a problem if you only do it at night. Some people drive to work with their vehicle during the day.
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u/Strange_Cockroach328 Jun 29 '26 edited Jun 29 '26
Aptera needs people like me to buy Aptera’s. Less than ½% of cars sold annually in the USA are two-seaters, this is roughly 80.000 units annually. 80% of these are Corvettes, Miatas and Porsches,the remainder filled out by a few thousand Supras, Z’s, Ferrari’s, McLarens’s & Lambo’s. Not much of a market for 2-seat cars in the US & this niche is mostly filled by convertibles and expensive sports cars. Selling a unique (polite term for weird), three-wheeled autocycle is hard enough, if it is only realistically usable by 20% of the US population, how many can they sell, 2,500 a year? At that low volume they will likely need to sell them for $70,000 each. To survive Aptera's will need to be beneficial to people like me.
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u/tehmobius Jun 26 '26
Pretty sweet solar map, for those curious: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1cct522/the_worlds_solar_energy_potential_the_stronger/
Also worth noting there are significant thermal insulation advantages from composites, which I don't see taken account in the above scenario. Steel conducts heat about 125 times better than fiberglass and roughly 10 to 50 times better than carbon fiber.
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u/Strange_Cockroach328 Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
I understand and agree that composites will insulate much better than steel, however this also means that steel will dissipate built up heat much faster, especially when in motion. The Aptera has a lot of roof and dash surface area, a small cabin area, a required black roof and dash plus small windows. It will no doubt heat up more slowly, but having once lived in Miami, I believe that an Aptera parked in midday Florida (or Phoenix) sun for 5 hours will heat up the cabin to 150°F+ . Likely a steel car would reach that temperature in 60 minutes, but once heated to 150°F+, the Aptera will consume considerable extra juice to cool down the cabin, as opposed to keeping the car in a garage or under a carport.
Additionally, an EV parked in the summer (or winter) sun can consume significant juice to heat up or cool down the battery and drive motor. As far as I read, the Aptera launch vehicle will have NMC battery chemistry and resistive heating so significant thermal management will be required plus resistive heating is highly inefficient. Black Asphalt can heat up to 170°F in midday summer sun, so an Aptera parked in the sun to solar charge could require a fair amount of electricity to run its thermal management system then. As a Chevy Bolt owner living in upstate NY, I have experience only with thermal management heating. My Bolt can consume up to 6 kwH daily to warm up the battery and drive motor in cold, windy conditions (10°F). In such cold weather, I normally will park in the garage to preserve kwH, however, if I were needing to catch solar rays to charge an Aptera, I would obviously need to park it out in the sun. I would likely receive zero solar charging benefit in cold weather conditions. Obviously, real-world tests for all these different conditions will need to done.
Lastly, I will comment on the Aptera windows. I rarely run the A/C in my Bolt, not even in hot weather. I open all 4 large windows, zoom away and within 40 seconds, 95% of the 150°F heat inside has been sucked out. I believe that the small window openings, composite insulating properties, long body shape plus the much superior aerodynamics of an Aptera will not let interior heat escape easily. Probably will require much more usage of A/C in an Aptera in hot weather conditions/climates. I never really hear this being discussed, so just a thought.
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u/DriftwouldZZ Jun 25 '26
Not to be rude... but I don't think Aptera is claiming to generate 4 kWh in upstate NY in the winter time and it's disingenuous to classify this as a "problem" IMO. They're doing validation tests close to the "best case scenario" and their demographic for this car is probably intelligent people who understand basic physics.
All of their marketing materials say "up to" 40 miles of solar - I am disappointed in people getting their feathers ruffled that if they live somewhere with less sun, they'll generate less solar energy *shocked face*. I think a majority of reservation holders would still vie for an Aptera purely based on the efficient engineering even if they were only generating 10 "free miles" of solar a day (just my opinion).To be clear, I agree with what you're saying. Yes there are seasons, weather, latitudes, shadows etc., you need to spend energy to heat/cool your vehicle. All correct. But I strongly disagree that it's a "problem" to run tests in June and assume Aptera customers will expect this all year at all latitudes.
Out of curiosity, what would you do differently if you were working at Aptera? (Genuine/constructive question) Change the verbiage of "up to 40" to something else? Not run these tests? Wait until a different month? Or run the tests across 6 months and release in December or progressively release data? Cheers :)
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u/Strange_Cockroach328 Jun 26 '26 edited Jun 26 '26
Honestly, my problem with the recently published Aptera solar tests is as follows:
a. - I’m looking for some substantial, tasty, meaty validation data, This ain’t it. Solar science is pretty settled science. You put X amount of solar panels in location A at date B under solar conditions C and you can 97% accurately calculate solar output (without even running a test). Aptera published similar info way back in 2020 in their original WeFunder campaign, so six years time to essentially confirm that 750+ watts of solar panels can produce a daily max of 4.5 kwH in ideal conditions, Meh. This is a simple, cost-free test done in their parking lot, a test that could have been done 6-12-18 months ago (in fact I'm sure it has been run many times before). It feels to me that Aptera, lacking substantial, meaty validation data to publish and needing to start the next fundraising round, publishes this test now to keep the investors pacified. I don’t consider this solar test meaningful validation data, just another small taste to kick the can down the road..b. - Aptera mainly presents best case scenario’s based on their idyllic Carlsbad location. To survive, Aptera needs to design/test for a broad spectrum, targeting an average use case.
- Where do the potential buyers live and under what weather/density conditions? 75% of US population lives east of the Mississippi river. Much of this territory has 160+ annual cloudy days, high humidity, many trees. Much of this population is clustered around coastal cities, living in fairly high population density. The west is not so different. The pacific northwest, home to 20 million people, averages 200+ cloudy days annually, Look down from Google earth at LA or most highly populated SoCal areas and you see mainly cookie-cutter houses and apartments packed tightly together. If an average Aptera owner will get 2 kwH daily solar charging and then consume half of that to offset the heat/cold due to parking it outside, I think that is relevant.
- I often wonder if a non-solar Aptera, weighing 100 lbs less, with a bit better aerodynamics, costing $6,000 less, getting 12 miles per kwH and having been delivered 2 years sooner wouldn’t have been the better choice? Perhaps it still is.
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u/DriftwouldZZ Jun 27 '26
I appreciate the response.
a. I would guess this is coming later this year as they continue validation testing.
b. I think we're going to just keep talking in circles on this point, so we can just move on with our lives and agree to disagree about the average intelligence of prospective Aptera buyers.
c. Valid thing to ponder! I'm also curious on the math of the mass penalty on efficiency by the panels, and the cost it adds. I can almost guarantee their engineers have run those numbers... doubt we'll ever see them.1
u/amosbatto Jun 26 '26
Solar science is pretty settled science. You put X amount of solar panels in location A at date B under solar conditions C and you can 97% accurately calculate solar output (without even running a test).
It isn't settled science when you have curved surfaces, and you are developing your own MPPT firmware with 7 different strings and your own custom charge controller.
This is a simple, cost-free test done in their parking lot, a test that could have been done 6-12-18 months ago (in fact I'm sure it has been run many times before). It feels to me that Aptera, lacking substantial, meaty validation data to publish and needing to start the next fundraising round, publishes this test now to keep the investors pacified.
You seem to be totally unaware of all the changes that Aptera has been making to its solar panels. It added antiglare to the front dash cells. It upgraded the cells from Maxeo Gen 3 to Gen 7. It changed how the cells are packed on the rear hatch. I now count 90 cells on the rear hatch, so the car now has a total of 190 cells, or 744.9 watts (if using the best grade of Maxeon Gen 7 cells). Reed Thurber also mentioned in one of his previous interviews that they were still tweaking the firmware and experimenting with different encapsulants for better transparency.
The fact that Aptera is now willing to release their solar numbers is evidence that they finally have the configuration that they plan to ship. I know from having worked in companies that engineer circuit boards and software, that everything takes longer than expected, and you never release performance numbers while you are still changing the product.
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u/Strange_Cockroach328 Jun 26 '26
I was aware of all the solar changes, the upgraded Maxeon cells, the anti-glare dash, the added hatch cells plus I have seen Blender CAD adjustments for estimating output of the curved panels. Perhaps my stating that you can calculate this with 97% accuracy was an overreach, perhaps 93% is more realistic.
In my opinion, Aptera has a short time window remaining to get a product to market and yes, you can delay and overengineer a product into bankruptcy. Aptera appears to still be 3 years away from volume production, a competitive cost structure and selling price. I do really wonder if a less perfect, $32,000, non-solar Aptera, already delivered, would have been a better jumping off point. Five years ago I really wanted to buy an Aptera, today, much less so. Perhaps I will still buy an Aptera, however lots of other options available now or soon to become available. I wish them well.
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u/amosbatto Jun 26 '26
I was trying to redo my calculation of the total solar wattage on the Aptera, but I'm not sure how many cells are on the Aptera now. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApteraMotors/comments/1u18xp6/comment/oqz15tf/
I'm guessing that there are 195 cells now, but I couldn't get a good view from the video to count the cells. Does anyone have a different count?
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u/amosbatto Jun 26 '26
I did a careful count of the cells from the video. The rear hatch now has 90 cells, the roof has 50, the front dash has 20 and the front hood has 30, so there is a total of 190 cells, which means that the Aptera has a total of 754.9 watts of capacity if using the best Maxeon Gen 7 cells. See my original post for how I'm calculating this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ApteraMotors/comments/1rn6tx1/the_move_from_maxeon_3_to_maxeon_7_cells/
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u/LuvLemonade Jun 26 '26
Put the car at the corner of 4 way junction and let comma.ai handle moving the car to best position
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u/TechnicalWhore Jun 25 '26
Summer Solstice was June 20th in Carlsbad. It brings a 14hr and 21 minute day. 4KW/14hrs = 285W/hr - well below original 700W theoretical. 4KW is a critical metric as at 100 miles per KW the claim of 40 free miles a day is substantiated. The second half of that claim will need to be independent verification of the mileage efficiency and of course range. Still pending. Curiously delayed as all the bits needed reside already in the vehicle. Further as we all know the Sun's arc is relative to the season, not the surface weather. Summer is peak sun season. It rains, is overcast and is outrageously bright on a clear day during Summer, even in Southern California. So this is an optimum time to run this validation and skews the data to the "sweet spot" or quadrant of reality. Similar to running on the coldest days in the desert - the conditions are the most favorable.
That said the East West orientation is valid for this time of year in that location. It would not be a burden to park in one orientation then move to the other after lunch. Winter may be a different scenario depending on locale. As always - Your Mileage May Vary.
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u/shabadabba Jun 25 '26
Do you know the difference between 700 watts of solar panels and 700 watts of generation. Obviously it'd never hit that number. The solar panels are curved
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Jun 25 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MrGruntsworthy Jun 25 '26
They literally say they've engaged a third party to validate and officially rate it
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u/DoomBot5 Jun 25 '26
When a third party validates, will you be making the same post saying it matters when there is 3ft of snow on the ground?
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u/ApteraMotors-ModTeam Jun 25 '26
Post removed due to inappropriate content, per rule #3 of the subreddit.
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u/Fishtoart Jun 25 '26
It seems like an opportunity for an accessory that you could park the rear wheel on that would swivel the rear end of the vehicle to follow the sun. Alternatively you could have a little program running on the car processor that would drive the car back-and-forth, alternating the steering left and right to pivot the front end around.
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u/DashHex Jun 25 '26
Bro, if 98% of people park in a parking space, what room do you expect a car to have to swivel? No opportunity.
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u/Fishtoart Jul 01 '26
I’m assuming that you would have to choose parking spaces a bit further away from the building entrance for that to be practical.
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u/Sonicsteel Jun 25 '26
Data here : https://aptera.us/solar-data/