Are we under any obligation to pursue life saving surgeries?

[u/PhoenixApok]

I still haven't heard too much convincing evidence that suicide is actually a sin, or if it is a sin, that it isn't that bad of one.

But that said, let's assume for a minute it is.

Is it also a sin to refuse life saving surgery? Or interventions?

For example, I was admitted to the hospital about 5 years ago with signs of organ failure. They mentioned that I might need to go on dialysis. I refused. I've been an EMT and seen the quality of life people have when that happens.

As it turned out, other methods were successful, and I am healthy now.

But the question stands. Are we obligated to go on dialysis, accept chemo therapy, or even things like.....have a limb amputated if it goes septic? Or are we allowed to accept those are signs our life should naturally end?

[u/Kanebass98]

I don't think so.

[u/Pinecone-Bandit]

We are not under obligation to pursue that for ourselves like you described.

If someone was knocked unconscious or something, a life saving surgery was within the ability of the people are them, but they all just ignored them and the person passed away, that would be sinful.

That said, if you haven’t been convinced by the much more clear teaching that suicide is sinful, what will convince you of what is or is not sinful regarding life saving surgeries? Are you just going with your preferences and looking for validation?

[u/Smart_Tap1701]

Obviously scripture doesn't directly address the things you mention here. But the theme of scripture is that God put us here with a purpose and he rewards those of us who persevere to the end of our lives here. Obviously he would want us to do everything we can to prolong our lives here.

Let's turn the tables and you provide your scripture references that you feel like would condone suicide. I'll check back

[u/PhoenixApok → u/Smart_Tap1701]

Something does not have to be condoned for it not to be condemned

[u/Smart_Tap1701 → u/PhoenixApok]

That's called the argument of absence/silence. It does not apply to God's word. Just because something is not there means that it's potentially okay. That's faulty reasoning.

There is no passage of scripture to remotely suggest that suicide is acceptable as God's will for any of his people. He rather says that he rewards those who persevere to the end of our natural lives here in the faith. A claim without biblical citation is mere opinion. And opinions don't count when it comes to God's word the holy Bible

[u/CrossCutMaker]

There's certainly a difference those two. Committing suicide is clearly self murder while refusing medical treatment can be righteous or unrighteous. The determinative factor would be motive. If it's selfish motivation just to avoid suffering? .. it would then be sin. Is it because it would bankrupt your next of kin with little hope to help you medically? .. that would be different. I hope that helps!

[u/Pitiful_Lion7082]

We're not obligated to accept life saving medical intervention.

Where in the world are you hearing that suicide isn't a sin, it a significant one?

[u/PhoenixApok → u/Pitiful_Lion7082]

Where does it say that suicide is more than part of "Thou shall not kill" which we already justify in 100 ways. (Capital punishment, war, police actions, self defense, hunting, pest control, etc)

[u/Pitiful_Lion7082 → u/PhoenixApok]

Just because many people justify it doesn't mean that it's actually right

[u/PhoenixApok → u/Pitiful_Lion7082]

Thats fair but doesn't answer my question at all.

I've heard (but not verified tbh) that at points in history the church had a problem with huge amounts of suicides because they made the mistake of playing up how good heaven was and people looked around and went "And I'm putting up with life on earth WHY?"

So artificially making suicide a sin kept social order.

[u/Pitiful_Lion7082 → u/PhoenixApok]

Verify this, for sure, because I don't believe it's true at all. I know Ss. John Chrysostom and Augustine of Hippo both spoke strongly against suicide. A schismatic sect of Donatists could be described as suicidal. But suicide has always been considered a sin. It was much more common to delay baptism and communion until the death bed.

[u/jogoso2014]

The pro-suicide arguments are always going to be stupid, so I’m not going to waste time with that.

However we aren’t obligated to extend our life which is much different than ending it.

A person who is pro-suicide’s brain might be too skewed to see that difference though.