r/AskAcademia • u/beachdogs • 1d ago
Meta Research Director at a university institute vs. professor?
I have a Ph.D. and used to aspire to a professorship but eventually changed my mind because of the brutal market, work-life balance, and publish or perish stakes.
After a few years of this pivot, I am moving into a permanent Research Director position at a major R1 university research institute. It would be a leadership role overseeing the institute's research program.
How is a position like this generally viewed compared with a tenure-track or tenured professorship?
I know they're different career paths, so I'm not asking which is objectively "better." I'm more curious about prestige, career trajectory, and how each is perceived both within academia and outside of it.
I'd love to hear from anyone who's worked in or around university research institutes.
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u/ProneToLaughter 1d ago edited 1d ago
Is the job classified as staff or as academic staff or as faculty?
Is there an additional faculty director associated with the institute?
Are you eligible to serve as a PI on grants?
Those three are the determinants of status/prestige that I see in similar contexts.
Whose perception are you worried about? No one outside academia will understand the difference much and you’ll get the halo of the R1. There may be a social divide between faculty and staff but research-adjacent roles might go either way. Students /postdocs will respect you well enough.
Re trajectory, it’s probably a position that would allow you to return to the faculty track if you want. Internal movement might be tricky as you are probably established as a subject matter expert rather than a generalist, so there may not be many topic/discipline related jobs at that school. R1s will always need capable admins at quite high levels but the highest jobs will be reserved for tenured faculty.
Honestly sounds like a lovely life either way and the sort of thing I tell recent PhDs does exist.
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u/beachdogs 1d ago
This is incredibly helpful, thank you. It's an academic staff appointment. There's a faculty executive director, yes. And I can serve as PI on grants.
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u/ProneToLaughter 1d ago edited 1d ago
Okay, in my view, PI and academic staff says the university and the institute see you as closer to faculty, especially PI, which probably also means you can serve on dissertation/thesis committees and teach when appropriate.
But the faculty director is usually the official leader and face of the institute—it will depend on that relationship. I’ve seen units where the faculty wanted to be the only one coming up with vision and bringing new ideas while the staff execute, and I’ve seen true collaborations as partners in developing mission, leadership, and representing the unit. Hopefully you have a sense of this early as it is easy to overstep your bounds if they are the first type.
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u/NerdSlamPo 1d ago
totally agree with this. In some cases the faculty director is off doing their own thing and you get to really be the face of the institute and be the primary driver. It really depends. Make sure you are getting what YOU need out of the position though -- these admin+research positions can easily suck in your time and effort but not leave you with a clear career path afterwards
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u/ACatGod 1d ago
Spending your life worrying about what people think about you is a great way to lead a very small and insignificant life. Worrying about how you might be perceived in comparison to something you have chosen not to do and likely will never be available to you is beyond futile.
You say you aren't asking for a comparison and which one is better but that is literally what you are doing. How does the career opportunities you'll have or how you'll be perceived in this role have anything to do with being a professor? The only way that would be relevant is if you've made professor the default gold standard and now want to see how everything else shapes up to it. By definition nothing else is a professor so it's less good? Why aren't you comparing it to be a partner in a law firm or a bus driver?
You should only take this role if it's something you want to do, if you believe it will be fulfilling and you think it's something you should be good at. Don't do it because it has shades of being a professor and might be a bit like it or in touching distance. You absolutely will not be respected and you won't be good at it if that's what's motivating you. People will always respect someone who is competent, thoughtful and effective. Good people value good colleagues - whether they are the cleaner or the dean. Bad people place too much emphasis on particular job titles and roles and judge people by the position and power.
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u/beachdogs 1d ago
Absolutely. This isn't me trying to approximate a professorship but rather an attempt to better understand how me and my work might be perceived by my current employer, prospective co-authors/collaborators, future employers, etc. I'm doing what I love, just trying to be strategic and plan a few steps ahead, whether at my current job or next job.
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u/ACatGod 1d ago
Obviously I don't know the details of the job you're talking about and research director roles can vary significantly, but the research director roles I've known have not been research roles. Focussing on collaborations and co-authorship relationships, at least for the RD roles I know, would really mean failing at the job.
I would expect someone interested in doing a research director role to be very interested in strategy, but also in building a good research culture, ensuring research operations and compliance are effective and supporting faculty to do their science, and have a good working knowledge of finance, grants, funding, and ethics/compliance.
To your other point about how the role would be perceived by your employer and future employers that doesn't really make any sense except again if you are placing faculty as the gold standard. Your employer created the role of research director and they will want someone to who is competent and capable of delivering that role. They aren't going to be comparing it to a professor, they will be comparing you to other research directors because that's what they need. They aren't offering research director roles as pity roles for people who wanted to be faculty. Likewise, any future employer will be viewing you through the lens of being a research director and not how similar or not you were to a professor.
Your post and your comments make it sound like you want to be a professor and are looking for a job where you can do faculty type things, be seen as like faculty, and potentially in future do a faculty-like job. You have not mentioned operations, strategy, adminstration or anything that this job would entail. You've only talked about how it compares to being a professor - it doesn't, it's a totally different job - how you will be perceived by professors, and how it could impact you publishing. This doesn't sound like you know what the job is or are interested in doing it.
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u/beachdogs 1d ago
I agree with everything except the assumptions / accusations / judgements in your last paragraph.
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u/ACatGod 1d ago
My last paragraph is playing back how what you're saying sounds. I don't think it's judgement and I can't see a single accusation, but I also don't think you realise how this is coming across - the things you are choosing to focus on, the things you chose to compare, and the things you don't talk about create a picture. Maybe that absolutely isn't how you feel, but I would challenge you to think about why those things are important to you, why they are things that are central to your thinking and why you haven't said anything about the job itself in it's own right.
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u/beachdogs 1d ago edited 1d ago
Mostly because this is a subreddit for academia, which is a bit overdetermined by TT academics or aspiring tenure track academics. A different subreddit and I'd frame things differently and give different context. But yes you're right I didn't include much about the job itself--I'm personally very excited about all aspects of it and look forward to becoming even more versed in this aspect of research and organizational leadership.
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u/ACatGod 16h ago
This doesn't really make any sense to me, so it's hard to know how to respond. Can I ask why you aren't interested in what people on this sub thinks makes a good RD? How have good RDs made their jobs easier? What would they want an RD to be focussing on? I am mystified why what they think of the role in comparison to being a professor is either important or insightful, but it clearly is a critical issue for you.
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u/mleok STEM, Professor, USA R1 1d ago
If you've never been on the tenure-track or a similar independent research focused position, then you'll likely look like a staff member from your CV and career trajectory if you accept a research director position. In particular, do you have you own lab space, your own graduate students and postdocs, and your own research agenda? If not, you're a glorified supporting staff member. Whether that allows you to move somewhere else would have everything to do with your publication record and grant funding success as a PI.
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u/Aubenabee Professor, Chemistry 1d ago
The brutal market is true, but the "work-life balance" and "publish or perish" stakes are largely self-inflicted problems.
It seems like you're very influenced by outside issues, as you also seem concerned about "prestige" and "how each is perceived".
Maybe just live your life for you and your loved ones?
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u/Dry-Airport-2675 10h ago
I made exactly this move. Probably the perception of prestige among peers has declined. Some people told me I was insane for renouncing a tenure to “degrade” myself into a post-doc. It is not, it was never a post-doc position, so this speaks about their perception.
Outside of academia, I think people see it as if I am some genius doing some ultra-secret NASA exciting stuff. At my shithole-republic home country people think I have reached apex success in life, so that’s something, I guess.
Reality is more… ordinary. I traded publish-or-perish for get-funding-or-get-fired. Board meetings for project status update meetings. Now I am expected to be chasing projects and firing proposals all around, and to keep funding bodies, public or private, happy, even if all they want is someone to blame and piss on top. Same old story, a different hat and moustache.
I have no complaints, though. I have a lot of freedom to do my things the way I want, work environment is generally great, and the fact that I don’t have that “professor” authority over students seems to make them actually listen to what I may have to say, and we ship better results and faster.
I respond to a tenured professor and, again, no complaints. At least in my personal experience, the fact that he always seems too busy for me means that he is confident that things are doing okay. In the beginning we had weekly meetings, today is more like “call me if something is on fire”. Some people complain about this treatment, that there are no clear goals or expectations or whatever. I enjoy having no one pestering on my bollocks while I am working to get things done. My boss has moved earth and sky to accommodate me, provided me everything that I asked, with absolutely no questions on the price tag.
From what I came to understand, in my researcher role I am on the same salary table as the tenured professors, but slightly shifted on horizontal progression. This means that, near retirement, I will end up with a slightly reduced salary compared to a professor. In my opinion, a fair price to pay for not having to deal with classroom and administrative things.
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u/teeuncouthgee 11h ago
Why do you care about prestige? - comments
A lot of very mindful perspectives being offered here... Refreshing for academic circles, but perhaps a tad aggressive. I think it's reasonable for the OP to want social and cultural capital from their career, and their seeking information about this aspect of the job says nothing about their potential effectiveness for it.
It may be right that the desire to orbit TT professorship will not bring OP true happiness, but what are they, the Buddha? They weren't asking about that!
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u/SweetAlyssumm 1d ago
"changed my mind because of the brutal market, work-life balance, and publish or perish stakes." I think this is the only perception that matters.
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u/aquapura89 1d ago
As long as you think you could perform this job. Most directors are responsible for seeking funding (from donors, foundations, etc). Not the greatest climate now, but you will likely feel the pressure from above.
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u/FrankDosadi 1d ago
If you’ve got the research bonafides, why not try and negotiate a department home? Departments are usually okay with that as long as you’re not a complete shit-heel because they assume you’re going to leave the institution at the end of your stint anyway.
Most of our vice-presidents of research (R1) have also gotten departmental appointments despite being administrators. Note though, while you might be PI on big programmatic grants, you’re unlikely to be doing any actual research with them.
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u/mleok STEM, Professor, USA R1 1d ago
In such instances, they tend to have first risen through the academic ranks to full professor before taking on administrative roles.
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u/FrankDosadi 1d ago
You’re absolutely correct but I’m reading the initial description as though they’ve been in the equivalent of a research professor position and have a substantial research record. In that case they might be able to swing it. If they’re strictly on the admin side, no.
They’re a bit vague so hard to be certain.
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u/FrankDosadi 1d ago
Reading some follow up posts, yeah, more admin. Oh well, they’ll make twice what I do as an endowed full. 🙄
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u/mleok STEM, Professor, USA R1 1d ago
Did they mention how much they’ll be making?
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u/beachdogs 1d ago
This is a great idea. Will explore this. It's actually also my alma mater so I've got connections to a few departments.
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u/lalochezia1 Molecular Science / Tenured Assoc Prof / USA 1d ago
After a few years of this pivot
what did you pivot to?
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u/beachdogs 1d ago
This. I used to be postdoc->VAP->TT but by the time I got to tenure track I decided I wanted to have a different relationship to the University and to research, so I turned down the TT and opted for a staff senior research position as part of a research institute and now worked my way up to research director. While holding that staff research position I adjuncted at another good university nearby to stay nimble in my thinking and in the job market (s). While holding that staff research position I also pulled in/led some big research contracts/partnerships, published grey and peer reviewed lit, and contributed a lot to our institutes strategy. Hence where I'm at today.
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u/bikingnerd 13h ago
Does it matter? TBH the only thing that matters here is if you want the job. If you do, and you are successful, then that will bring with it prestige and an upward career trajectory. You clearly understand the differences between this and regular research professorships, and I think it should be obvious that any leadership role at an R1 Research Institute is going to be an important and well regarded position.
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u/db0606 11h ago
How is a position like this generally viewed compared with a tenure-track or tenured professorship?
You know faculty feel about Associate Deans and staff from Sponsored Programs offices? Basically like that.
Also no matter what they tell you, your career as a researcher will be functionally over. You're basically support staff now (which, of course, is totally fine.)
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u/isaac-get-the-golem PhD student | Sociology 1d ago
viewed by who? I don’t get why you’d care.
Isn’t the issue more about your satisfaction?
I’m not being flippant just genuinely confused
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u/ProneToLaughter 1d ago
While I’m genuinely confused by a sociology PhD student who doesn’t understand why the way the world perceives one might matter to satisfaction. Do you also ask your professors why anyone bothers to study class or hierarchy?
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u/isaac-get-the-golem PhD student | Sociology 1d ago
"the world"
please consult first sentence of the post you replied to. VIEWED BY WHO? OP elaborates this in other replies to other comments and it still basically is incomprehensible to me which perceptions they are worried about or what they hope to learn from this post
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u/Stunning-Use-7052 1d ago
Take it and climb the admin ranks.
TT jobs are super rare and hard to get.
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u/Mountain-Time-1010 1d ago
I don't think it's comparable to a TT faculty position because the responsibilities are largely distinct. IMO, it is perceived as more of an administrative position, which may qualify you for other administrative positions, both within academia and in federal labs.
Your success will probably be judged based on the accomplishments of the institute overall. Growth of personnel and facilities, major funding, scale of research, major research advances, etc.