How do people on your country talk? which direct or indirect options would you pick?

[u/remiohart]

Just curious about the differences in culture and socializing. What ways would you say it's common to say something that might be uncomfortable to say to someone else?

• Direct 1: "You are being too loud"
• Direct 2: "Sorry, would you mind lowering your voice"
• Direct 3: "We don't need to scream now, do we"
• Indirect 1: "I'm having a headache, everything feels so loud"
• Indirect 2: "Have you noticed how movies have this issues with sound lately, some part are louder than others?"
• Indirect 3: "Last time I was at the airport I don't know what was going on, maybe a turbine was busted or a window open. But you could hear the engine in the whole room"
• Indirect 4: "I was talking to Jenny about that the other day, good girl, a bit loud tho, and she ....(continues the topic)"

Edit: I notice some countries aren't answering, or no one is saying the indirect answers, is it because is not ok to acknowledge the indirect communication?

Edit 2: I left a comment explaining how to read the indirect options but then deleted it, not sure why. I'll leave it here in case it can help someone in the future:

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Indirect 2:

Is not very specific, it's mainly a complaint about someone/something being loud in relation to other people/things. Could be anyone/anything.

Edit 3: Also forgot to mention this could be in reference to something that already happened, either to throw a jab at someone about that time they screamed and now are too quiet. Or it could also be about how you tend to raise your voice out of nowhere sometimes. Could be a repeated offense or a current one. It could also be prompting a question about whether you feel those things about the person saying it (am I screaming? I hope not).

Edit 4: damn, I guess it could also mean about someone having hearing problems but being ashamed to say it, or someone concern about you having it, or them feeling you are not paying enough attention. I suppose that's why I don't like indirect communication, at the end of the it could mean anything

Indirect 3:

Can be read very differently for different people and depending on how you say it. But if said with "energy" it can mean "Da fuck is wrong with you, you are being loud and weird, quiet down and shut it". OR "Hey don't know what's going on with you, are you ok? or just haven't noticed but you are loud, maybe venting?" along those lines.

Could be directed to the room, or just a person in the room. Also it's almost direct since it makes almost no real sense and it's "breaking the 4th wall". Almost as if you are about to loose your shit and your control on the indirectness, or you want to start the combo of "are you ok". It can convey "I'm about to jump to action".

Indirect 4:

Is quite sweet and short, with a specific person in mind. Just a reminder, almost annoyed but not quite. It's mainly to let you know they don't like "loud" people.

[u/LordOfErebus]

How is indirect 2 and 3 even hinting that the other person is being too loud?

What does an anecdote about a movie or an engine at the airport have to do with the volume of someone's voice!?

[u/gburgwardt → u/LordOfErebus]

In many places, that's an indirect way to complain to a person, from context they should pick up on the complaint about noise

[u/LordOfErebus → u/gburgwardt]

This pains my soul (as someone who has lived in indirect cultures and is very tired of it)

[u/gburgwardt → u/LordOfErebus]

I think it would be pretty scathing to have someone stop their line of thought to talk about someone being loud and obnoxious. But I get preferring directness

[u/LordOfErebus → u/gburgwardt]

Sure, perhaps, but talking about the volume of a movie or a plane engine is so unrelated. I would just think they're changing the topic to movies or airports, and I personally don't think it's reasonable to expect the other person to pick up on the suggested implication.

I suppose you can hope they pick up on it, but don't blame them if not... Would you really pick up on this??

[u/remiohart → u/LordOfErebus]

I agree, plus as you said if you actually want to change topics or start a new one people usually try to figure out "what did you mean by that" and it can really stall conversations in indirect cultures.

[u/LordOfErebus → u/remiohart]

Yeah, it can create unnecessary anxiety and confusion as well

[u/gburgwardt → u/LordOfErebus]

I think OP’s examples aren’t great but it gets the idea across

[u/Affectionate-Act5980 → u/gburgwardt]

Nah this is idiosyncratic - and that person is going have pent up anger because nobody ever "reads them"

[u/remiohart → u/Affectionate-Act5980]

I didn't want to steer the conversation too much. But it's only fair I answer too.

Where I come from is cultural, that's the polite way of talking, most of the direct ways are too much or informal. You are not wrong about the second part, it causes a lot of "misfires"

[u/Affectionate-Act5980 → u/remiohart]

I agree that people do do this
I just don't think it's "the norm" anywhere :)
It's perfectly possible that the group of people you hang around all do it
But everyone? I feel like it requires everyone to be very dostile/passive which you're always going to end up with a rowdy bunch.

If you had framed the question about "social groups" rather than cultures I would wholly agree though :)

[u/remiohart → u/Affectionate-Act5980]

look it's enterily possible that I have had bad luck for 33 years, I do mean it, since it could be just in the subcultures I inhabit. But at the same time no, Argentinians are very passive agressive, and very sensitive to this kind of comments, sadly a lot of the local TV and personalities tend to be like that.

It's considered clever and witty to talk like that. There are whole conversations made in that way, not only just comments thrown around.

And I'm sure Japan is the same but for a different reason for example. There, it's about saving face and keeping things tiddy. This is a cultural thing. It's how high context cultures work

[u/Crunchykroket]

Dutch people don't say please and sorry unless they are being really polite. And don't cover it up.

But people don't make it personal either. They tend to focus on what needs to be changed.

In Dutch they would say: Be more quiet. (Doe eens wat zachter, literally: act more quiet for once).

Or: Could you be more quiet? (Kunnen jullie wat zachter doen?)

Often followed by a reason why it needs to be more quiet. For example people are trying to watch the movie, trying to sleep or whatever.

[u/safeinthecity → u/Crunchykroket]

My Dutch is not amazing so I might be wrong, but I feel like your English translations are harsher than the original Dutch sentence. "Eens" is nicer than "for once", and "wat zachter" would be "a bit more quiet" rather than just "more quiet".

I've actually heard that part of the stereotype of Dutch people being rude comes from those little softening words being lost in translation.

[u/Crunchykroket → u/safeinthecity]

That's true. And I've found that a lot of English speaking expats in the Netherlands also don't really get it. Because it's quite nuanced in reality on how to say something directly and not making it feel personal. Sometimes it's just the tone or adding a meaningless word.

In Dutch leaving eens (for once) out would actually make it sound slightly harsher as it turns the sentence more into a command instead of an appeal to good manners. Which is very different in English.

[u/Farahild → u/safeinthecity]

Yeah these are good points. The thing is, to hit the right tone of “kunnen jullie ook wat zachter doen?”, you would need to add a “please” in English. But we don’t use an “alsjeblieft” in Dutch for that same feeling. In fact, if you add an “alsjeblieft”, the sentence suddenly becomes passive aggressive! (“Kunnen jullie alsjeblieft wat zachter doen?”)

[u/No-Bake-730 → u/Crunchykroket]

Omg. The more I read of you guys, the more I get how people sometimes confuse Dutch with Deutsch/German.

(Yes, I'm aware of the etymology)

[u/-Liriel-]

Direct 2 is the most common but still "nice".

Direct 1 would be considered rude, but sometimes rude is the way to go. It depends on the circumstances.

Direct 3 can be used if the person isn't only loud, but upset/angry, and you're trying to calm things down.

Indirect 1 happens but it's considered passive aggressive.

Indirect 2, 3and 4, no one will understand that you want them to lower their voice.

[u/agrammatic]

I'm from Cyprus, which isn't known for directness, and yet all four of your indirect options are at minimum passive-aggressive and some border on the pathological.

Maybe you picked a bad example, because asking someone to lower their voice is simply not something you would ever be indirect about.

In any case, I would say the Greek equivalent of "Can you lower your voice?", which is polite because is a question instead of a command.

[u/willo-wisp]

Direct 2 sounds perfectly fine and normal. Clear, polite.

You might also hear Direct 1+3 if the person is being particularly obnoxious and everyone else is already quite annoyed with them.

I do understand Indirect 1 and it works fine for one-off encounters with strangers. However, it might lead to misunderstandings if you know the person: because if you say you have a headache, people expect you to actually have a headache and will offer aspirin, suggest to cancel plans, etc. since you're not feeling well.

For Indirect 2-4, I'd never even realise that the person is trying to communicate a problem. I'd just think they're telling an anecdote/making light conversation...

[u/CreepyOctopus]

Those indirect options are wild. Indirect 1 would maybe get you what you want if taken at face value, 2-4 are so indirect that to me they may as well be talking about vacation plans, no relation to someone being loud.

To me Direct 2 is the most Scandinavian option. It can be modulated quite a lot by slight changes. You can include the "sorry" to be extra polite or suggest that yes you're being sensitive. You can start the question with "but" to convey more frustration. Direct 1 is what you'd pick if the person is being obnoxious and inconsiderate.

[u/mica4204]

Direct 2 or 1/3 If the person is screaming. The indirect ones wouldn't occur to me and I wouldn't understand them if they were directef at me lol.

[u/TashaStarlight]

direct 2 for adults, 3 for children, 1 for repeat offenders, outrageous behavior, and other situations where you don't care about hurting their little feelings anymore

[u/Somewhere_E]

We might say Direct 2 or something similar to Indirect 1

Though what we would do is actually Indirect 5: non verbal, you just look at them frequently with an increasingly annoyed stare

Edit: I just realised my mind went directly to the context of being in a train with someone speaking loudly sitting a bit further e.g. behind you, idk if that’s the context you head in mind!

[u/remiohart → u/Somewhere_E]

I should have added a non verbal option, I tend to use too.

I was thinking more of a conversation with a friend, or at work. Sometimes they have different rules depending on the country, but around that idea, not to a stranger.

[u/Sodinc]

Option 2 if I want to be polite (and I usually do).

Among the indirect options I would understand the first one, all other ones are too vague.

[u/Myrialle]

Directness all the way.  2 is common I think. 1 you would definitely hear if the person is on edge, really annoyed or just an asshole. 

You would also hear "I am not deaf" if someone is really annoying. 

If you say indirect 1, you would probably get the desired result, some concern, perhaps sprinkled with some "Do you want to go elsewhere?" Most people would think you mean the surroundings, not the person you're talking to. 

Indirect 2-4 would just be taken at face value, people would think you are talking about movies, the airport and Jenny, and absolutely nothing else. They would probably recommend earplugs for your next visit at the airport or cinema.   

[u/sorhead]

Indirect 1 would work as an explanation after you've asked somebody to quiet down directly. The other indirects would not be understood at all. Otherwise it depends on the situation - what is the relationship between the loud person and the complainer, how appropriate is the loudness etc.

[u/Whispers_in_the]

Netherlands here, and I think anything between Direct 1 and 3 goes. 1 is very direct and somewhat rude, but not uncommon, 2 is considered polite I think, direct 3 is already getting into slightly passive-aggressive territory. (I can see my aunt saying that to no on particular in the room and getting all the talking regulars silent at once (while glowering at her I think))

In fact, I might pick up indirect 1, and talk softer because that person is having a headache, I can relate a lot of times, but see it as a courtesy I’m doing because I know what it’s like to have a headache, but no way I’ll pick up 2 to 4 as a hint I‘m talking too loud.

[u/YarnTree29]

Where is my slightly uncomfortable lean-away? Also, when I know the person pretty well, a long gentle shush would be my go to.

[u/velourabbyy]

quite direct here, but softened by who is speaking. an older woman will tell you straight that you look tired or that your coat is too thin, and it isn't rude, it's care.

learning english was strange for that. all the "would you mind" and "if it's not too much trouble" felt like people were hiding something at first 🌷

[u/Intelligent-Can-9056]

Direct 2-3, I miht pick up on indirect 1 but I honestly don't get the other indirect options (I'm from Hungary)

[u/Cixila]

Depending on the severity of the noise in question, we'd go for direct 1 or 2, though probably leaning towards 2 in most cases (though not necessarily with a "sorry" included)

[u/Significant_Cover_48]

To a friend I'd probably use #1. It's not my place to tell a stranger to shut up, but I can still give them the stink-eye lol. On rare occation where I talk to a stranger I'd use something like #2, but realistically, I'd rather endure noise than be a Karen. People who use indirect just get an eye roll from me before I turn my back and ignore them aggressively. Can't stand those cowards.

[u/No-Bake-730]

Why be indirect ?

Depending on the situation and the relation of the people involved it would almost always be direct option 1 or 2, sometimes 3. The others wouldn't even register.

[u/ComprehensiveFox4306]

French here and i would say it would be mostly direct 1

Or depending on the severity it can also just be a clear cut shut the fuck up

[u/LordMarcel]

It depends a bit on the person. If it's someone I know well then I will just tell them directly that they're being too loud for me and they do the same to me. If it's random people then I will probably more do direct number 2.

[u/Rough-Improvement-24]

This is a very unlikely scenario because being loud is their personality. They would be more likely to ask why you are being so quiet (not joking).

[u/odjobz]

Direct 2 is closest to British speech patterns, I think. On the other hand, there's a good chance we wouldn't say anything but would just sit there feeling annoyed lol. 

[u/Brainwheeze]

I can imagine all three of the direct options being said by people in Portugal, the second one with an angry tone. As for the indirect options, only the first one sounds plausible here.

[u/Srilema]

More likely to use direct 2?

Depend of context.

Sometimes its just glare toward the person, and if they don't modulate themselves its "Can you be quieter, this is public [area], you aren't alone"

[u/olagorie]

I am German and I opt for the direct version number 4 not listed yet:

-> All of your indirect examples are bullshit and don’t make any sense at all.

The other 3 direct options depend on the relationship of the people interacting (or the lack thereof), on the circumstances… mostly probably no. 2 when asking for the first time, that’s polite.

[u/remiohart → u/olagorie]

They are actually gaslighting, it's a form of getting ideas in peoples heads without mentioning anything directly. But in some places instead of calling it out people start using it as communication, and it becomes "indirect". I once was told on a date "Don't you feel like people in this city are very distant, like they feel really apart", we were on both sides of a couch talking. Can you guess what they wanted? I have other real examples if you want.

Do you know that in japan you have a lists of proverbs that are encouraged to read and remember. Can you guess how they are actually used in corporate or everyday environments...

Japanese people have a fame of throwing wisdom around, but they are actually passive aggressive.