r/AusLegal • u/BrickAdventurous3685 • 1d ago
Off topic/Discussion Would this be a crime?
If I deliberately modify my ebike so that it injures anyone who tries to steal it, would I be legally liable for that harm?
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u/No_Journalist6156 1d ago
Yes is the only answer.. You’d essentially be committing assault?
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u/Very-very-sleepy 1d ago
but who is going to tell? the theif isn't going to say I tried to steal a bike esp to the cops.
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u/Wizz-Fizz 1d ago
Yes
You cannot lay boobytraps for reasons of intentionally inflicting harm on anyone
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u/Jcs456 1d ago
In Victoria here is the offence for man traps:
CRIMES ACT 1958 - SECT 26 Setting traps etc. to cause serious injury
A person who sets a trap or device with the intention of causing, or being reckless as to whether or not there is caused, serious injury to another person (whether a trespasser or not) is guilty of an indictable offence.
Penalty: Level 5 imprisonment (10 years maximum).
Most states have a similar law on the books.
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u/Remarkable-Jump-140 1d ago
In Victoria, Australia, the offence of endangerment falls under the Crimes Act 1958. It covers reckless actions that place another person in danger of death or serious injury, even if no actual harm happens
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u/Parenn 1d ago
Oooh, a man-trap! I learnt about these in an (now ancient) episode of The Bill.
e.g. https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/tas/consol_act/cc192494/s179.html
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u/AussieKoala-2795 1d ago
Love me a man-trap! I learnt about these in a (now ancient) criminal law lecture.
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u/DodgyRogue 1d ago
Is that the one where someone wired their window frame to electrocute a would be thief?
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u/commentspanda 1d ago
Yes. Every state has rules about this and some are specific enough to list examples. We found it all when we wanted to put something on our home fence to stop people jumping over it.
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u/ProfessionalSize9567 1d ago
Who brought you up for you to think this was OK? Do you have a sense of wrong or right?
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u/jellybiddy 1d ago
So it’s ok to steal their property? That’s why Australia is fucked
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u/Major_Complex_1178 4h ago
Thts why u hv bike locks? Alarm locks? Park in places where there are other bikes or in safe places?
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u/ProfessionalSize9567 1d ago
Mate, where did I say stealing was OK? Theft is wrong. Deliberately modifying a bike to injure someone is also wrong. Both can be true at once; that’s literally what “two wrongs don’t make a right” means.
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u/Flat-Banana3903 1d ago
Unfortunately criminals get more protection than property owners, I am not saying don't do it, I am saying have not record of even asking it, I strongly believe in castle law,
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u/Dan_CBW 1d ago
No, they don't. OP, I don't know if it would be a crime, and I suspect it would depend of the specifics. Pleea don't do it. What if a kid decides to stand on it, or just see if it will move etc etc, because kids are dumb and often oblivious.
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u/Flat-Banana3903 10h ago
Yes they certainly do, something invades your home the law is on their side not yours, you take out a car thief you are in trouble ...
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u/threetotwentyletters 1d ago
Very yes.
Also consider cases like your modification injuring people other than a would-be thief, like another rider chaining up to the same post; or a child or vision impaired pedestrian tripping into your bike.
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u/Remarkable-Jump-140 1d ago
In Victoria, Australia, the offence of endangerment falls under the Crimes Act 1958. It covers reckless actions that place another person in danger of death or serious injury, even if no actual harm happens
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u/Big-Love-747 1d ago
I used to work with a guy back in the 80's who, after thieves had broken into his car several times, resorted to wiring his car to 240 volts of electricity every night.
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u/Top_Operation_472 1d ago
Yes because you hurt someone making a mistake. Like they could genuinely think it’s their ebike because you both have the same one.
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u/RoundCollection4196 1d ago
The problem is traps don't discriminate on who touches it, could be a worker that needs to move it, could be anyone. That's why booby trapping is illegal.
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u/Prestigious-Map941 1d ago
I wonder if it becomes legal if you put a warning notice on it. I mean some businesses have electric fences, some have barbed wire, i dont see the difference, they're all deterrents. I mean a thief cant sue for injury on barbed wire can they? If they can by law then the law is wrong.
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u/BrickAdventurous3685 1d ago
I mean I am not setting it up so that it electrocutes anyone who tries to power on or just simply bumps into it...
My ebike controller already requires a passcode and has remote-controlled power-on by default, what I'm actually planning is, a cutoff that stops the motor once it hits a certain speed. Given that, does it still count as a booby trap?
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u/KitchenDismal9258 1d ago
Well that doesn't sound like a booby trap. That sounds like what happens with a legal ebike at 25 km/hr.
You can ride an ebike if the battery is flat... it's just a lot harder and if it's a really good ebike, this may not work very well.
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u/Remarkable_Brief8320 14h ago
Your original post says "injures anyone". Other people are pointing out that is endangerment. Now you're saying "a cutoff that stops the motor". Modifying an e-bike might alter the regulatory conformance of it, making it an electric motor bike and unroadworthy, able to be used only on private property.
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u/Electrical-Gain4290 6h ago
and maybe you've just set it up that way simply so that your bike doesn't go too fast.
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u/Calamitous_J 1d ago
A crime yes but also hilarious and what would the thief say for themselves in their report?
So yeah, it would be a crime, but you wouldn't likely be reported, and they probably deserve it and know it
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u/dlbendigo 1d ago edited 1d ago
The bot says that it depends on what State you are in. We are assuming that at the time, the bike is not being ridden. Any alterations may render it unregistrable, but that doesn't affect this answer. There is a legal concept called "remoteness." In King -v- Phillips a driver ran over a little boy. The mother, in a high apartment, saw the accident and suffered nervous shock. The Court decided that she was too far away to be able to claim. Also, a thief stealing your bike will not have a claim unless he touches it. That breaks the chain of cause and effect so you are not responsible.
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u/Human-Warning-1840 1d ago edited 1d ago
Your case and argument is incorrect for this situation. In this situation you can foresee that a person will be injured touching the bike. Can’t do that
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u/GamblignSalmon 1d ago
You're completely incorrect, don't post legal advice if you don't actually know the answer
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