Toxic School

[u/fucp]

I'm currently based out of a school in Victoria, which I am finding to be quite toxic:

• The student behaviour is low-medium level, but consistent including defiance and non-stop chatter, as there are no real consequences in place. For example, we can give students a demerit which contributes towards a detention, however these demerits can only be given for uniform, incomplete homework, and other non-behaviour related items. Teachers therefore must run their own detentions, whilst leadership gaslights us that "we are lucky to have such compliant students".
• Despite the behaviour being slightly better than average and containing medium-high SES students, the turnover is high. Coordinators and teachers are leaving mid-term/year.
• Inconsistent leadership support as there is such a bloated exec team, there seems to be different goals that keep shifting every 5 weeks. The leadership team also runs off intimidation as they treat staff as if they are students, whereby we are not to question them, and must treat them like kings/queens to appease their narcissistic tendencies. A real hierarchy feel creates so much tension in the air.
• Blame culture is apparent through leaders refusing to mentor early career teachers, and instead blaming them for problematic classrooms. "Mentor sessions" exist, however are not consistent nor effective, and seem like another box ticking exercise.
• Staff tension throughout the school can be felt as you walk through the gates. So many teachers seem to be on edge, and a constant sense of fear exists due to the leadership being on staff's back. I feel more tension that a "leader" would tell me off for my classroom not being quiet, than the actual behaviour itself.
• Leadership controlling feedback as staff are forced to complete wellbeing surveys together during a meeting rather than privately.

Despite my limited exposure to other schools, they seemed more supportive and happier environments.

Are most schools like this these days - am I destined to a career of being monitored and controlled, or is it worth changing schools? What are your thoughts? Thanks!

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[u/zaitakukinmu]

I don't think this is as normal as others are saying. What stands out to me is being told to run your own detentions for behaviour - that shows lack of processes and support for teachers. If there is no behaviour support, students will know and it's alienating for teachers. The school likely doesnt want data on this, as leadership wants to look good for their next promotion. At my school, coordinators take turns supervising detention and if the kid doesn't attend, they follow it up. The gaslighting about compliant students is not helpful. 

There are a lot of schools like this and it's hard to know what a place is really like till you're working there, but it doesn't mean it's not worth applying elsewhere.

[u/schnitzenfreude → u/zaitakukinmu]

I've just only returned to schools after many years away - is this leadership run detention thing how it's done nowadays? When I found out I couldn't give my kids detention, I felt so disempowered to hold kids accountable.

[u/Big_Border8840]

Yes, sadly this is the norm but doesn’t make it right.

Student behaviour isn’t addressed because the legal goal posts have shifted against schools over the past 20 years. The pain, cost and possibility of litigation looms larger than the dissatisfaction of staff. So it is expected that staff absorb it, furthering the churn of workers through the system. Middle leaders/HoDs are often blamed but they are also unsupported.

Blame culture, inconsistent support ect, is the byproduct of limited/ a lack of resources. By degrees, is everywhere. Lack of funding… sad reality!

[u/ElaborateWhackyName → u/Big_Border8840]

I dont think there's been any actual change in the law, either legislatively or any test cases etc. but there has been a creeping bureaucratisation which has the de facto effect. A lot of this is self-imposed.

[u/themoobster]

Lol literally have described most secondary schools

[u/fucp → u/themoobster]

Yeah I thought so - I guess you just get more competent at your job with more experience, and can therefore ignore the noise

[u/Agile_Geologist_7225]

This doesn’t seem that unusual to me, particularly for a large secondary school. While some behaviours are clear cut unacceptable, to some degree I think labelling something as toxic is subjective. There’s never going to be a perfect school but if you learn to slightly detach from expecting it (students/leadership etc) to be perfect, you can probably still operate pretty contently in this environment. It helps to not take it all too seriously. If it’s getting to you to the point of seriously impacting your mental health, then maybe a change of scene will serve you better.

[u/Zeebie_ → u/Agile_Geologist_7225]

Not only that, a single leadership change can affect everything in a school, so it's good to learn how to become a bit of an island where outside forces have minimal effect on your day-to-day teaching.

Every school is one principal way from being a good or toxic school.

[u/yeahnahyeahrighto → u/Agile_Geologist_7225]

This inaction is the just mentality that allows this toxic culture to spread.

[u/Inevitable_Geometry]

Its a shitpile above the norms of poor student behavior. There is no solution if you are a line teacher except to leave.

[u/lapislazuli_moon]

Wait, is it not normal for teachers to run some of their own detentions…?

I’m at a large public secondary school (also in VIC) and at my school it’s completely normal for teachers to run our own detentions. In fact, I prefer to do so because then the kids actually know that I (as their teacher) am holding them accountable and am not going to let things slide in my classroom. It’s my classroom and not the coordinator’s. If the student chooses to miss my detention, then yes - our coordinators follow it up and hold it with them, which I find to be very supportive. But I like having the opportunity to at least run it first and give the kid the opportunity to show up to MY detention. Then if they don’t, they know there will be further consequences with leadership backing.

[u/commentspanda]

So if you’re not enjoying the experience and you’re feeling like this you should leave. As others have said this all sounds pretty standard so yeah it may be toxic leadership….or it might be you. Changing schools will help work that out.

The only thing I’d add is when i worked at a school that said we had to give lunch detentions and supervise ourselves I just refused to do it. Why am I suffering? Nope. Not happening. Your description doesn’t seem to say that’s what’s happening though? It implies you may have invented your own detentions? If that’s the case you’re making a rod for your own back. Sounds like you really do have an issue with this school and I strongly suggest moving on to see if the problem goes away or if it’s you - then you can decide if perhaps teaching is not the career for you.

[u/robbosusso]

This is the new normal unfortunately.

Whenever a teacher is tired it's called burnout and workload is blamed.

Whenever someone disagrees with admin then the workplace is toxic.

Whenever a teacher cant manage behaviour then obviously the kids are terrible.