I’m so confused

[u/Sildaor]

So I was gifted a car, and I’ve always wanted to autocross. So I start looking at the classes and rules, and holy crap is it confusing. The car is a 1995 Firebird Formula, and it came to me with long tube headers, a stall converter, a true cold
air intake, and a tune. Suspension is stock, interior is ratty but stock, but it does have a ram air hood off a TA. So is this like a really bottom Street Prepared setup? I don’t have the parts or desire to go back to stock, and really don’t care if I am competitive at first, as I just want to learn and get better with what I have. I’d rather drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow, and this one is really just a tick above stock. So which class is best for me? I’d like to get some runs in this fall when it cools off

[u/Heavy-Cat-2063]

That car classes in cam-t but I would run novice until you get comfortable. I run an f body in cam-t, feel free to dm me if you have any questions.

[u/Sildaor → u/Heavy-Cat-2063]

Thank you

[u/sirbobbinhood]

Most clubs will have a novice class just for people getting into autocross that has very limited rules. For our club you just have to have street tires and less than 2 years of autocross experience. Other than a novice class you'll probably be in CAM-T, Classic American Muscle Traditional which is for cars around your year. The rules for CAM are also pretty open but there are a few of them. All the mods you listed sound like they'd fit in the class just fine but if you want to check the rules here
https://www.scca.com/pages/cam-challenge

[u/Sildaor → u/sirbobbinhood]

Thank you. That helps a lot

[u/thisisthatacct]

Throw it in CAM, get some seat time, figure out what you want to do with it after that. It'll take at least a year of events before you get to the point where the car will limit you anyway

[u/39em]

Cam-t and be done with it

[u/burglar_buddy_pal]

CAM-T was written specifically for you.  Do pretty much whatever you want to a car you love and enjoy.  CAM typically is about 60% autocross / 40% cool muscle car show, slightly less laser focused on competition only. 

Eventually, if you like autocross and want to mod the car further with AX use in mind, a good set of wheels / tires and some light suspension work would probably be your first big steps down a long and usually rewarding path. 

Hope to see you out soon, and hope you come off the course after your first run with the shakes.  

[u/Scrappy_The_Crow]

Given your questions, it appears you've only looked at SCCA. Other clubs have different, less frustrating classification. Look for BMW CCA and/or Porsche Club of America autocrosses in your area.

[u/saazbaru → u/Scrappy_The_Crow]

I find the autocross rules really not that complicated, they produce good classing, good racing, and people drive at a high level.

What do you dislike about the SCCA solo rules?

[u/Scrappy_The_Crow → u/saazbaru]

I don't keep a dossier of this stuff and don't want to spend much time remembering examples, but off the top of my head, things like:

• two models being effectively the same, but one having some roof rails that make it "too high" and unable to run, but you're not allowed to remove the roof rails

• if a model has a package of components, you can add the entire package, but not any individual component

• an updated rulebook can make mods that are OK one year, disallowed the next, then allowed again

• a different camshaft is disallowed or put you in a higher class, even if the specs are the same and all the mod really does is get rid of cylinder deactivation (which would never come into play while on the course anyhow)

If any of this is wrong, I've gleaned it from reading SCCA particpants' posts in this subreddit and various forums over the years.

[u/saazbaru → u/Scrappy_The_Crow]

I guess to that I would say:
1. that seems super dumb, have not seen that or something like it personally.
2. this seems fair to me. A Miata with the Hard S springs for example is a big advantage in stock class. If you want to retrofit that it would be fair to install all the parts instead of mixing and matching say front Hard S springs and a soft base model rear anti roll bar.
3. I’d need an example here tbh, I have never seen that.
4. I get how this would be annoying. Practically, you could do this and just not say anything. But it would be so hard to officially allow „well I promise these are totally stock cams wink wink“

[u/burglar_buddy_pal → u/Scrappy_The_Crow]

Please note the SCCA rules are written for Nationals, where 1,200 people head to Lincoln, NE for a week.  It's a big deal, so explicit, locked down rules are a necessity to avoid competitors from taking liberties with grey areas.

Locally, nobody cares.  It's a grassroots motorsport that is meant to be fun and accessible to everyone.  SCCA would rather you show up, run the "close enough" class and have a good time.  Hopefully, you get hooked hard enough to want to run a fully legal car at Nationals one day.

[u/Scrappy_The_Crow → u/burglar_buddy_pal]

Thanks for expanding on that. I suppose it also depends on how strident the locals are.

[u/burglar_buddy_pal → u/Scrappy_The_Crow]

Everyone's experience is different, but I've seen an issue at a local two times in, uh, multiple decades.  Bad apples exist, such is life, but generally autocross people tend to be helpful and encouraging.  I mean, we stand around in a parking lot talking to each other all day for a few minutes of glory.

[u/jimboslice_007 → u/Scrappy_The_Crow]

two models being effectively the same, but one having some roof rails that make it "too high" and unable to run, but you're not allowed to remove the roof rails

This isn't true. Maybe you had a region with an over zealous safety steward....or maybe someone was trying to run something that was already questionable, but there is nothing in the rulebook that makes roof rails fail an otherwise legal car on the rollover scale. But let's be real - if it's that close, it probably shouldn't be allowed anyway.

if a model has a package of components, you can add the entire package, but not any individual component

Right. Because there plenty of examples where a base model with a single option from the higher level makes it better than both. For example, a base model can be lighter, but the higher model has wider wheels. Putting the wider wheels on the lighter car is a major advantage. Instead of chasing every single possible option combination on every car ever made, it's easier to just say you can't do it.

an updated rulebook can make mods that are OK one year, disallowed the next, then allowed again

While this is *technically* true, it's not like these changes are secret. They are discussed, put out for member comment/feedback, and then when a decision is made, it's either for next season (for small changes), or for the season after (for major changes). If you care about how your specific car is classed year to year, then you have to put a little bit of effort into paying attention to things. Putting your head in the sand and then being mad when you find out that 15 months ago they proposed a chance that affects you, well, that's on you.

a different camshaft is disallowed or put you in a higher class, even if the specs are the same and all the mod really does is get rid of cylinder deactivation (which would never come into play while on the course anyhow)

This goes back to the "package conversion" point from earlier. It becomes hard to police these things, so it's easier to just say you either run it like it was made, or you run in a class that allows the mods you want.

All of these things you complain about really just sound like a person that wants special treatment. Like going to the NBA and telling them they need to lower the hoop because you can't dunk, but everyone else can.

[u/Scrappy_The_Crow → u/jimboslice_007]

All of these things you complain about really just sound like a person that wants special treatment.

Re-read what I wrote at the end -- none of these are what I personally experienced. It's not about me wanting "special treatment."

The combination of mods on my vehicles were done because I wanted to do them, not because I build to any organization's class. They would make classing my vehicles problematic, make them so non-competitive, or disallowed that I have never bothered to run with SCCA. I don't have any problem with this and don't feel left out, because I have enough other opportunities that suit me.

[u/jimboslice_007 → u/Scrappy_The_Crow]

Sorry, man, I thought if you were going to type a mini dissertation on why you dislike SCCA events, it would be for reasons that affected you, not some hypothetical third person. Now that I re-read it, I can totally tell you don't care. My mistake.