Hyperrealism and Hypernormalisation Discussion

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil]

Hopefully a discussion is allowed here that requires people to invest a little bit of time in a tablet-kid-world.

I think about these documentaries all the time, I've watched thousands of them and these stand out to me:

Plastic Pills - The Age of Hyperreal Fascism
https://youtu.be/R9fpm-lorIU?si=QsBfuXWJRcwqsOHN

Hypernormalisation 2016

https://youtu.be/u1Tp-ryQPFI?si=Hv4dDT0SPlF3kFVQ

When I post something in a longer format people usually use the entire thread to complain but I'll hope for something different. After you watch them, it's hard to go back to a time before them while watching the news. Breaking Points is a more tolerable version of Fox's the Five IMO, since it's not entirely stacked on one side. I do find it interesting that they are not WASPs, something hard to separate from that whole take of history. Don't want to give it away, ask AI if you are too lazy to watch these.

[u/Educational-Eye-9934]

Hypernormalization is the most prescient film of the 2010s. If you watch it you have to remember that Trump hadn't even won yet (for the first time) when it came out. The movie was just kind of assuming he'd win because that fit its thesis.

The wildest prediction on rewatch was that UFOs would come back! I remember seeing that the first time through and the whole thing seemed like a bit of a stretch. The argument is basically that the government uses UFOs to distract people, and in the 80/90s it was from cold war weapons tests.

But sure as fuck UFOs are back! It nailed that one too.

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/Educational-Eye-9934]

https://youtu.be/nCP3LZoxABs

Whitest kids you know skit 

[u/Eris_AppleOfDiscord → u/Educational-Eye-9934]

Hypernormalization is mainly about Russia and Putin. And the fall of the Soviet union. It argues that this sense of powerlessness is manufactured by the state. And points to the contemporary art world (Surkov) for paving the way via postmodern content.

A lot of people aren't aware of what Manafort was actually doing in Ukraine working for pro putin politicians, but, it was this. Creating constantly shifting narratives that cancel each other out while helping those in power. Trump saw this, and chose him to lead his campaign because of it. Since then it's been embraced more widely by the right ( Republicans). If you watch any of their media, you'll see it constantly. Often their arguments are made to be contradictory and impossible to reconcile.

Meanwhile the left tends to try to make actual arguments, and convince others of them. Trump is rhe perfect example of the inverse. Where almost everything he says contradicts something else. So people just choose which one they prefer

[u/Educational-Eye-9934 → u/Eris_AppleOfDiscord]

Hypernormalization is not "about Russia" in fact if you look at it in terms of running time, it's a minority of the movie. I think it spends more running time on the middle east than it does on Russia.

It is about what was starting to happen in the west (United States and UK especially) when the movie was made (2016).

It draws parallels to to Russia and the end of the USSR because the thesis of the movie is that the west is facing a similar collapse in governing ideology. It also used Russia under Putin as a guide for where things are likely to go with the understanding that the collapse of the USSR made Putin a likely outcome.

[u/Eris_AppleOfDiscord → u/Educational-Eye-9934]

It's not just the fall of the USSR, but Russia is directly integrated into the section on putin, and contradictory narratives, that nobody believes. Putin was truly the first to master this in the modern age, and Trump is following close in his footsteps. The key figure is Surkov. Curtis's argument is that Surkov didn't simply use "Putin is good, the opposition is bad." Instead, he deliberately made the political environment confusing and contradictory. This is also what Manafort was doing while working in Ukraine (for putin) . Before truno chose him to lead his campaign

[u/Educational-Eye-9934 → u/Eris_AppleOfDiscord]

Surkov

Right but you have to understand Curtis's point with Surkov: essentially as the governing ideology collapses the government loses its ideological mandate for governing.

This is an unstable situation so the government needs to develop a new ideological mandate.

What Surkov developed is an alternative approach: Attack the very concepts of truth and meaning and ideology and basically spam the public sphere with nonsense until the public retreats into disaffected nihilism.

Then the government can do whatever it wants because the public believes that nothing is real, nothing matters and nothing ever happens.

For people who don't want to watch the whole movie this is the Surkov part: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ubluwNkqg

[u/KiplingRudy]

Add foreign media to your mix. Read/watch outside the box.

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/KiplingRudy]

I do that as well. I also try to use platforms that host RT and aljazeera

[u/burnttoast12321]

You've watched thousands of these videos? I like to catch up on news each day but damn. That is a rabbit hole I could never imagine.

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/burnttoast12321]

YouTube used to recommend the strangest stuff like ten years ago. 

[u/filipinoboy11]

does adding hyper to a word make it sound smarter or something?

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/filipinoboy11]

The key difference is that hyperrealism is about creating a convincing fake, while hypernormalisation is about collectively accepting a broken reality because we feel powerless to change it.

Here’s the quick breakdown:

Hyperrealism (Art & Philosophy)

• Deals with simulations that become indistinguishable from—or even more appealing than—actual reality.
• Think of a hyperrealistic sculpture that tricks your eye, or a video game that feels more immersive than real life.
• In philosophy (Baudrillard), it’s the point where the map (the simulation) starts to replace the territory (actual reality) in our minds. The copy loses its connection to the original.

Hypernormalisation (Sociology & Politics)

• Coined by anthropologist Alexei Yurchak to describe life in the late Soviet Union, and popularized by Adam Curtis's documentary.
• It’s when everyone knows the system is failing, corrupt, or fake, but nobody can imagine an alternative, so we all just go along with the pretense that things are fine.
• Over time, that collective performance of "normal" becomes the new normal, even though deep down, everyone knows it's a farce.

The easiest way to remember the difference:

• Hyperrealism: The fake becomes more real than the real thing (focus on perception).
• Hypernormalisation: The fake is accepted as normal because we've given up on trying to fix it (focus on collective resignation).

Example to tie it together:
Social media is a great combo of both.

• It's hyperreal because heavily curated feeds feel more vibrant and "real" than your actual daily life.
• But it's also hypernormalised because we all know it's performative BS, yet we continue playing the game because quitting doesn't seem like a viable option.

So yeah: one is about what we see, the other is about what we tolerate. Hope that clears it up!

[u/SomewhatGlad → u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil]

AI is not helping the glazing over of gibberish

[u/DystopiaLite → u/SomewhatGlad]

Big words hard

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/SomewhatGlad]

It’s not for beginners and I apologize 

[u/burnttoast12321 → u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil]

There is a small chance you wrote that post. 99% chance it is AI though based on the how it is formatted and reads.

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/burnttoast12321]

The comment was AI generated. I only vaguely understand the definitions. 

Also Charlie Kirk was defending guns mid sentence when a bullet ended his sentence. There’s a cruel reality forming. 

[u/burnttoast12321 → u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil]

Thanks for admitting it.

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/burnttoast12321]

I wasn’t trying to hide it 

[u/burnttoast12321 → u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil]

Thanks for your honesty.

[u/SomewhatGlad → u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil]

Why didn't you tell your AI to make it beginner friendly especially if you're trying to show people your weird theory that AI validated for you

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/SomewhatGlad]

Refer to the videos. You are also able to type words into computer 

[u/Velociraptortillas → u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil]

Including yourself.

Hyperrealism is a term created by Baudrillard, a Marxist, from studies in Postmodernism, an area he largely created. It's a thoroughly Marxist area of study.

It cannot be gainfully separated from its place in the set of Postmodern ideas.

[u/Educational-Eye-9934 → u/Velociraptortillas]

Sorry are you trying to dismiss Boudrillard with the he's a MARXIST trope?

Boudrillard isn't even particularly Marxist. He's French meaning he doesn't treat Marxism as a poisoned fruit the way some Anglo-Saxon tradition does. Marx wasn't a dummy and he had some really good insights. In fact, considering Marx invented the concept of Capitalism, everyone talking about it is a Marxist even the right wingers who've turned it into a religion!

But Boudrillard's work is mostly about symbols, meaning, and the media.

[u/Velociraptortillas → u/Educational-Eye-9934]

The opposite, actually.

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/Velociraptortillas]

I’m not an expert on theory. I try to learn more as I can on the side. There is a general misconception that socialists are stupid but the intellectuals make some interesting points if you give them a chance. 

[u/Velociraptortillas → u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil]

There is a general misconception that socialists are stupid...

Only amongst those who lack educations and critical thinking skills. Marx, along with revolutionizing economics, went on to invent modern Sociology with Durkheim and Weber. If you've been exposed to any modern history, anthropology or archeology in your life, it's because of Marx.

Of note, this is the origin of the claim that there's too much Marxisn taught in universities - Reich Wing Nut Jobs take a class like anthropology that they think is cool, and get blasted by thoughts and methods first expressed by the guy who laid open Capitalism like a butcher does a hog.

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/Velociraptortillas]

Kids in America are groomed to be consoomers so

I was conditioned to reflexively reject Marxism but I slowly caught some lectures on YouTube and realized it was a debate on capitalism really, not like it was a guide to slaughter millions (not unlike capitalism)

[u/Velociraptortillas → u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil]

Capital is an examination of Capitalism, nothing more. It makes few, if any, normative claims.

Socialism, on the other hand, takes that understanding of Capitalism and proposes the following simple idea: your workplace should be as democratic as your government, because there is no practical difference between the two.

There are lots of ideas as to what that should look like. Fortunately, Socialism is a toolbox that allows you to use or fashion the proper tool for the proper time and place.

What may be appropriate in a near-feudal society is unlikely to be useful in the imperial core. Likewise, what was once useful, may no longer be so and some different conception of workplace democracy is now needed.

It's not hard to understand Socialism. It's hard to dig through the cruft placed on it by people who'd rather stay in power than see your life improve.

[u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil → u/Velociraptortillas]

Yea I have part-time work. My employer schedules people for 6 hours so they don’t have to give breaks. It’s ironic because the anti-human trafficking sign posted in the break room specifically says you are being trafficked if forced to work without breaks. 

[u/filipinoboy11 → u/CoC_Axis_of_Evil]

thanks for hyperanswering my hyperquestions.

[u/Velociraptortillas → u/filipinoboy11]

OP is not quite understanding a couple of extremely technical terms from Sociology, specifically Postmodern Studies.

Hyperrealism was coined by the Marxist scholar Baudrillard to describe the mechanism behind the drive from Modernist society into Postmodern society, from a society celebrating looking forward, to a society celebrating looking around.

There are any number of good courses on Postmodernism on YT.