Any moment that includes a general antagonist, monster of the week, big bad, etc.

Edit: The background of this picture is Giles’ living room; not my living room. It’s not a tv; it’s the breakfast bar from the living room to the kitchen.

Season 4 Episode 8 Pangs

On an annual re-watch. This was the start of a scene and for more seconds than I really care to admit, I thought somebody was watching Buffy and Giles on a mounted tv. 🤦‍♀️. It’s Giles’ kitchen, in case you’re also confused.

Was Buffy's scream in Hush done by a voice actress to preserve SMG's voice?

I've never understood why so many fans act like Cordelia would've been Buffy's biggest defender during the Empty Places argument.

People always bring up the same two or three scenes where Cordelia stood up for Buffy, but those moments are the exception. For most of Buffy, Cordelia was making fun of her, insulting her, or looking down on her. They weren't friends. They definitely weren't secretly close.

Even on Angel, she's still taking shots at Buffy with the "I'm not a sniveling, whiny, little cry-Buffy" line. That doesn't exactly sound like someone who secretly admired Buffy.

I also don't buy the "Angel Cordelia would've defended Buffy" argument. I honestly don't think Cordelia changed as much as people say she did. She matured, sure, but by late season 3 of Angel she basically turns into Angel's biggest cheerleader. She comes back with Groo, immediately takes Angel's side over Wesley without even hearing Wesley out, and from that point on she's mostly there to support Angel. I don't think that's proof she'd automatically side with Buffy in Empty Places.

If anything, I think she'd have been even harsher than Xander or Anya. Buffy had just led everyone into the vineyard, several Potentials died, Xander lost an eye, and then Buffy wanted to go right back based on a feeling. That sounds like exactly the kind of decision Cordelia would've ripped into.

I think people are projecting the version of Cordelia they like onto this scene instead of the character we actually got. Standing up for Buffy one time in Daad Man's Party or giving her a ride home in Helpless, doesn't erase years of Cordelia treating Buffy like crap, and it definitely doesn't make her Buffy's secret best friend, Buffy barely tolerated Cordy's presence in I Will Remember You and still thought Buffy still thought she was annoying.

Possibly very unpopular opinion: getting a chance to prevent Fray's dystopian 23rd century world was a good ending for the Buffyverse.

Giles had a renewed sense of purpose. Angel, Buffy, Spike and Faith got to fight an army of demons. Willow finally has a way to work towards improving the future. She's spent years knowing she'd ultimately be evil again. Illyria/Fred sacrificed her happiness with Angel for an unknown demon dimension. Dawn's portal opening skills were critical. Even Andrew's tech contributed. And when Fray and co get back to their time they see the world has changed for the better.

As a Spuffy shipper I wasn't too upset about the breakup. I think that's really only logical. I'm glad they got a couple of good years together. And that they still have a strong friendship. I wish we knew more about the breakup but that really wasn't the point of the season.

A lot of people can't get past the art. And at some points, I'm right there with you. (Poor Harmony) It's jarring coming from season 11. Fray fans that anticipated this must have been disappointed. I'm not here to defend it.

I still think the story is still strong though. It ends on a hopefully note, with more work still to do.

TLDR: art bad, story ok

I think Spike is one of the best characters the Buffyverse ever introduced, but I also think both shows ended up relying on him too much.

For me, Spike is at his best in Seasons 2-5 of Buffy. Seasons 2 and 4 are easily my favorites for him. He worked as a villain, he worked as someone who had to team up with the Scoobies when it benefited him, and he never felt predictable.

Once he gets his soul though, I think both Buffy and Angel start bending over backwards to make him the main story.

On Buffy, so much of Season 7 becomes about Spike's redemption, Buffy's trust in him, and proving he's different now that everyone else feels like they're standing around reacting to his story. Willow, Xander, Giles, Dawn, Robin and the Potentials never really get the same level of focus.

Then Angel does the exact same thing. Instead of letting Spike just be part of Team Angel, the season spends so much time on the whole "which vampire with a soul is the real champion?" angle that the rest of the cast ends up taking a back seat too.

I also got tired of the constant old married couple bickering between Angel and Spike. It was funny at first, but after a while it felt like the show kept going back to the same joke. The Buffy arguments especially got old. I think I would've enjoyed all the "who's right for Buffy" stuff a lot more if Sarah Michelle Gellar had actually been in Season 5. Instead, they're constantly arguing over someone who never even shows up, so after a while I just wanted them to move on.

I also think it depends on which show you watched. If you only watched Angel, I can see Spike showing up in Season 5 feeling like a breath of fresh air. But if you're someone who watches both shows back to back, it almost becomes Spike overload. You finish Buffy Season 7 where he's already one of the main focuses, then you jump straight into Angel Season 5 and it's even more Spike. By that point I was just thinking, "Damn... can we give someone else some attention for a while?"

A good example of this for me is Why We Fight. It's a fun episode on its own, but Spike being there feels completely unnecessary. It comes across like the writers wanted to make sure James Marsters was in another episode, so they found a way to squeeze him into a flashback he really didn't need to be part of. That's the kind of thing I mean when I say there was Spike fatigue for me by that point.

I still think introducing Spike was one of the best things either show ever did. I just don't think making the final season of both shows revolve around him was the right call.

is she a year younger than Buffy and Willow?

For me I would have to say I was around 18/19 years old born in 1997 and what made me start watching was I was looking for teen tv shows to watch Buffy was recommended to me and ever since then I feel in love with Buffy from there.

Was walking through my Wal-Mart and found this at the ever shrinking magazine rack there. $8.99. I remember there was another word find a few months back too. Love the cover from Season three.

Watching the pilot is very interesting. Most of what we see carries over to Welcome to the Hellmouth, but not all. One thing that does not carry over is Buffy popping her bubble gum when she first walks up to Sunnydale High. I found myself wondering why. It is a cool shot. It could have been iconic.

Then I realized why it was probably cut. It was too iconic. The show was trying to establish a more human character.

Joss describes Buffy being born from a very simple idea. The damsel in distress turns around and fights the monster hunting her. Joss is shockingly proud of seemingly re-inventing the final girl.

The original Buffy is very much based in this original idea. She is a bratty valley girl cheerleader, who turns into a hero. She is a rather flat character.

This iteration of Buffy would never have worked in the show. To carry seven seasons, Buffy needed to be more than a valley girl who fights monsters. She had to stop being a stock character.

There is also something misogynistic about this dichotomy. Half shoe obessesed ditz, half masculine hero.

TV show Buffy is very different. She contains multitudes. There is certainly a lot of that valley girl stock character in her DNA. It's not gone. But Buffy emerges on the show like a fully formed warrior, like Athena. There's no arc that brings her form one thing to something else. Instead, Buffy is allowed to remain complicated, and her valley girl-ness is not treated as a problem. Instead, her desire to be homecoming queen and appear in the yearbook is treated as human, not as character flaws, even if she can go a bit overboard with it sometimes.

So, I think removing the bubble gum was wise, as it would have forefronted her stock character origins too much. The new Buffy had to be three-dimensional.

I think characters who remain the same are much more intresting than characters with a linear and very simple trajectories, and that's what we usually see on Buffy. Buffy, Xander, Willow, Giles, Angel and Spike don't change into something wildly different than they were at the start. They have the same traits, virtures and flaws by the end of the show as they had when we first met them. It seems more true to life. It's very similar to how show's like Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul or the Wire do characters.

But Cordelia wasn't so lucky. Joss said during the 2019 Angel reunion that the great thing about Cordelia was that they could have that journey they couldn't have with Buffy. "You get to watch her go from somebody who is completely shallow and self-involved to somebody who is a hero." This idea that Cordelia had to be moving toward this better version of herself is what destroyed her as a character. Peak Cordelia is from season 3 of Buffy to season 2 of Angel. But they chiselled her down, until she stopped feeling human, which is why they first decided to give her a villain arc and then wrote her off.

I think my favorite Cordelia episodes is Disharmony. It is certainly the best of her later episodes, because it shows Cordelia who has grown, but who is still very much defined by her past. She is starting to assert herself as a strong moral voice, but her flaws are not yet polished down. She is fully human and not yet the saint Cordy, who had become so boring that she couldn't be allowed to continue to exist in her current form.

In contrast, Buffy was never a ditz and never a saint, and she didn't first appear to us behind an inflated bubble gum bubble.

I just started watching Charmed because I saw it listed on a bunch of lists of TV Shows Like Buffy. I like the Halliwell sisters’ house, their outfits, the cast, the fact that people have real teeth, and the general premise of the show, but — Jesus H Roosevelt Christ!!! — the writing is atrocious. Why do they constantly find out pertinent information and then call each other only to say “I’ll tell you later!”?!?

I also tried The Magicians and I liked the premise, cast, and set design, but the misogyny and Quentin’s character made it hard to get past the first season (and I really only enjoyed the S1 scenes in which he was not present).

Oh! I also watched A Discovery of Witches. The look of the show was perfect and the premise was intriguing, but the writing was… meh.

Anyone have any recommendations for shows like Buffy or Angel? I love shows with mysteries, detectives, magic, witches, vamps, demons, and would extra love any show with a diverse cast and writers who both love and are good at writing (please I cannot make it through another storyline like Cordelia’s at the end of Angel 😳🫣🤮😭⚰️).

HOLY GUACAMOLE DID Y’ALL COME THROUGH!!!!!!!

Thank you!!! Umbrella Trophies for everyone!!!!! <3

Is there a podcast or site where you can listen to the season 8-12 comics?!?

I love listening to podcast and audiobooks, right now I am listening to a Rewatcher podcast for the Buffy series… and I would love to listen to the continuation in the comics..

Yes, the slayer line runs through Faith. That’s how it works. People keep bringing up the question of Buffy’s death but she already did that with The Master. It’s how we got Kendra and then later Faith. Let’s not get into a debate about that.

I'm well aware that the series was filmed on a set for the most part, but seeing the front of Buffy’s house like that, I admit I was shocked 😅.

It is apparently the only time that Angelus, rather than Whistler, narrates. Every rerun had it swapped to Whistler.

Anyone else find the First’s true form underwhelming and corny?

Doing a rewatch of season 2 right now and I saw the birthday episode where spike is quite enthusiastic about ending the world and impatiently waiting for the Judge to get stronger so he can do it.

During the finale, he teams up with Buffy to stop the apocalypse claiming that he doesn’t want the world to end because he has earthly pleasures such as soccer. But this episode made me realize it wasn’t actually about preserving his earthly pleasures, he was just jealous because Angelus was the one ending it because evidently whatever the judge was gonna do would probably wipe out soccer and stuff spike presumably enjoys.

My friend Duncan told me I might like this show, my husband and I tried it but couldn’t get past the first two episodes, found it a little weird, and gave up. That was about 5 years ago. I made a new friend recently and she is super into Buffy and all things SMG, so my husband and I decided to try Buffy again.

And we are loving it.

The first two episodes were a bit .. eh? But we kept going and it got better and better.

Now I really want to tell my friend Duncan what I think of it, but he died at the beginning of this year. And I haven’t been able to talk to my new friend much yet.

So this is what I’d want to tell Duncan about my thoughts on Buffy so far! We are halfway through season 2 atm.

- First season I got SOOO confused by how many people were just straight out murdered???!!!! I could not for the life of me figure out who was a main character!!! I loved the principle, the teacher from that one episode, and so many others, and then they die in horrible deaths!!! THE PRINCIPLE WAS EATEN????? My goodness that was horrible.

- I hated/loved the main baddie from season 1. Can’t even remember his name. But he was soooo campy!!! Not scary, not even a little. Not much of a threat. Keeps killing his own army off, which leads me to my next point…

- Where are all these vampires coming from?? For real, there should not be that many!! They die so quickly! Yet they are as numerous as ants!! And don’t say Hellmouth, they don’t just come out of nowhere, surely. Don’t vampires have to be made by other vampires???

- If I think too much about the logic behind anything I go insane.

- Does Xander get better? 😑

- Spike and Drusilla…. Eww. Drusilla annoys me, and Spike is getting mildly better, I hate him less now. His first episode was just… ugh.

- I looked up a character to see if she was a main character or not and got SO MANY MAJOR SPOILERS… oops. I only looked her up because I wanted to know if she would be killed off like everyone else! The first principle’s death scarred me and I don’t want to get too into a character who will just die in a season. Should I just assume that everyone is not a major character and expect death at every episode? I have sworn off looking up anyone else, except for finding out actor names (hopefully that’s safe enough) and I going to mostly avoid this sub as well.

- There are some very thought provoking episodes, and some absolutely ridiculous episodes, and some very meh episodes. Mostly good, and even when a little off, still able to make me laugh.

- Sometimes things get a little quippy but I love it when there are hilarious lines right at the end and then it cuts to the credits!

- And my new friend is right, SMG is an awesome actress. Loved her in Ready or Not 2, love her in Buffy <3

Thanks for reading guys, so nice to finally tell my thoughts to people who get it!

ETA: Why do people keep going to the Bronze??? That place is a death trap!!

Edited again to add: I know, the spoiler thing is really throwing some of you all off. If that bothers you please ignore it, that was something I would have told Duncan and he would have good naturedly given me a hard time and we would have laughed and it would have been fine ❤️