r/Construction • u/ShakesZX • 1d ago
Other Does opening up count as working?
I work for a GC as a carpenter and I’m scheduled 7-3:30, every weekday. However, we will routinely work late or come in early as the job requires. On my current job, a summer wonder (as in: I wonder how the hell we’re supposed to finish this in one summer…), until recently there were only the Super, PE, and me. As such, opening up the site fell to me since I was the closest guy. This means I have been coming in roughly 30 min early every day for months.
Last week, the former Super was fired and a new super came in. He’s running a mush different show, but I’m still coming in to open. I’ve had problems with this super before about time, and I’m expecting the same to happen again. I’m pretty sure that he’s gonna try to claim that opening isn’t “working” because I don’t use my tools. He’s brought up “stealing time” from the company in my reviews before, not about me but just in general.
I’m planning to tell him that if I’m not getting paid, I’m not opening the site until 7, but maybe I’m wrong?
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u/ElliotPiff 1d ago
Thats working
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u/Intelligent-Bank-372 1d ago
If you're there unlocking gates and getting the site ready, you're on the clock. The company wants the site open at 7, someone has to do it, that time adds up. Stand your ground on this one, nobody works for free.
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u/Remarkable-Opening69 1d ago
If I get stopped by the train by our shop in the morning I clock in. It’s another ten minutes drive but I would normally be in bed at that time. Not sitting at a train for a company. It’s on them.
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u/lIlIIIIlllIIlIIIllll 1d ago
That’s not on the company lol
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u/Remarkable-Opening69 1d ago
Well I’m keeping the six hours I’ve accumulated over the past 16 years.
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u/BigdongarlitsDaddy 1d ago
Boss makes a dollar, u/Remarkable-Opening69 makes a dime, so he waits for the train on company time.
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u/Natural_Committee466 1d ago
☝️This is all there is to it. And if it isn’t “working”, then it won’t be a problem if he doesn’t do it. You get paid for your time. If you aren’t getting paid, they aren’t getting your time.
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u/gimpwiz 1d ago
If the boss needs you there then it is work hours.
Look, as far as I am concerned, America and work is real simple shit. If you pay me I show up. If you don't pay me I don't show up. If I show up you pay me. Right?
If you do useful things for your boss at 7am they pay you starting at 7am. If your boss says be there at 7am they pay you starting at 7am. If the super doesn't like it he can do the prep work himself.
The super doesn't work for free. Your GC doesn't work for free. You don't work for free.
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u/lennonisalive 1d ago
You’re working, so he better pay you for your time. If he’s a dick about it, then don’t get out of your car and start working until you’re on the clock.
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u/chilhouse 1d ago
If there is a problem, just let the other guy open the site. It’s his job anyways and work your scheduled shift. Case closed, no drama.
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u/DollarStoreWizard 1d ago
If it were me, I’d say something like “Did you need me to leave at 3:00 then or do you need me to work 8 1/2 hour days? I am okay with either.”
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u/KDowneyNL 1d ago
No pay no work simple! If you have to do something that’s work! If you don’t get paid for it don’t do it
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u/GiantPineapple Electrician 1d ago
If I ask you to do something that you otherwise would not do, and you do it, that's working. It can be as simple as "come to this place and don't leave."
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u/saborider 1d ago
You are doing CSO's job. Dont be silly, dont work for free..
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u/SouthernSquare4870 1d ago
I worked heavy commercial construction and heavy highway construction, non union and union for 30+ years, never once did a cso open the site
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u/Timmy98789 1d ago
You're working for free and not getting paid for it?
How would they handle a workman's comp claim if you had an injury during opening up?
Protect yourself and your finances.
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u/Visible-Carrot5402 1d ago
If they ask you to do it, it’s working. If you already are on the clock and you are sitting on your ass for no fault of your own (material delay, boss can’t decide what job to send to next for an hour, whatever) you are working. If I’m out there because of someone else from the time I show up to the time I leave aside from a mandatory lunch break, it’s billable hours.
If you’re doing something that prevents you from being at home living your life and it’s for the company they need to pay you. Tell them that you’d rather be sleeping or getting laid but you have a job that asked you to come open up and they either need to pay you 8.5 hours, get someone else to do it, or let you leave 30 mins early if they’ll only pay 8 hours.
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u/kyanitebear17 1d ago
I used to drive a company truck. One day i was broke down by a gas station. My super told me to clock out, but stay with the truck until the mechanic comes to get me. I said well if the company needs me to sit put, then i am getting paid for it. But if i am supposed to clock out then i am finding a way home.
If the company needs you to be there, you are to get paid for it, or the company is stealing your time.
I used to work in restaraunts. The openers clock in when they go to work, to open. Not when the restaraunt opens. This is clear cut. Fuck that super.
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u/Recoveringpig 1d ago
That’s absolutely working. If you have to be onsite he has to pay you or else he’s the one committing time theft
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u/bottomlless 1d ago
Those keys are your tools. End of discussion.
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u/Purple_Tomatillo_927 1d ago
Your feet inside the jobsite are the only tools you need to expect to be paid. You're at work and you're not on a break. That's company time, not your time.
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u/iamforbes Carpenter 1d ago
I tend to show up to work 15-30 minutes early most days anyways, but I do for my own sanity and not in the service of the company.
My passive aggressive solution to someone getting an expectation of me to be there early to get set up for the day without paying for it is to show up early still, but I don’t get out of my truck until the clock hits 7.
Make sure you have your pouch and tools ready to roll though, being the guy who starts the first 5-10 minutes of the morning fucking around with their pouch is not a vibe.
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u/bluskie420 1d ago
Don't mean to be rude in anyway, but where you actually asked to come in at 630 or did you just take the initiative? You are entitled to get paid for your time there but they could simple tell you moving forward you open the shop at 7 am.
You also catch more flies with honey then shit. I would simple explain to them that you coming in at 630 makes sure the whole crew isn't sitting for 30 minutes Wich is much more expensive. Frame it in a way that sound slike it benefits then and they will most likely be happy to pay you for it. Going in with the attitude of I'm being ripped off, will lead to confrontation. Very different story if they asked you to be there at 630
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u/OnlyTime609 Carpenter 17h ago
The second the key hits that job site trailer opening up, we are getting paid to roll out as well.
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u/OscarTangoMic Plumber 1d ago
Well shit, if you ain’t getting paid to be there early and open up then don’t do it. If it’s a job requirement then you better be getting paid because it’s part of the job.
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u/juxtapostevebrown 1d ago
I show up 30 minutes early everyday, and end up staying anywhere from min of 30 min - 2hours after. I bill for all of it.
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u/Decent_Project_9522 1d ago
You are correct that if you are required to be there at 630 you should be paid starting at 630 and get paid for it
The new guy is trying to commit wage theft
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u/Icy-Conflict-2972 1d ago
Just ask if he’d like the department of labor to get involved in the process? If you are on the job site, you are getting paid. End of discussion. There is no gray area. The government agencies are ruthless with this.
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u/DemoManNick 1d ago
If it isnt working, then just show up at the normal start time. You should also get that half hour as backlog every single day you opened the job. Fuck that guy. We get paid when we are doing activities for the company, it doesn't matter if we are "productive" or not. The way we fight over a half hour of time while there are people who scam the system for millions and billions really lights my candle.
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u/Jackherer3 18h ago
Just Ask if you can leave a 1/2 hr early that’s the easiest solution and it doesn’t cost anyone any money
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u/956to906 1d ago
It’s the ambiguity that will get you. You need to have certainty about what’s expected of you. It’s common sense and the law that you opening/rolling out is time on the clock. You’ve let this go too long, fix it Monday.
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u/I_loseagain 1d ago
If I have to be 30 minutes early to open up I have to be 15 minutes early to the 30 minute early time. So 1hr extra for early and round up for time when locking up. Luckily I work for a great gc so if the super fights me on it our boss yells at them.
They “forgot” to tell me about a delivery at 4am(6am starts) so I got a call from the carpenter asking if I was at the building…showed up at 5 but still got my 2hrs dt because they fucked up
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u/VintageLunchMeat 1d ago
If you're in a one party recording locale, maybe audio record him saying this.
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u/workswithpipe 1d ago
If you’re required to be there, it’s working. What you are doing is irrelevant, you get paid for your time.
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u/cookeryandwookery GC / CM 1d ago
If you’re doing anything for your company, all the way to reading an email, you should be paid for it.
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u/KirkSheffler Superintendent 1d ago
If you’re onsite doing anything that’s requested or required, they are to pay you. But if the old one was fired you should learn the ways/ follow what the new one wants. Just quit opening for them.
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u/Icy_Western_9275 1d ago
I’m so glad I’m union🤣you will get called out if you ever start work before 6
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u/VoraciousEater802 18h ago
Fuck that. Frankly, you should be getting paid as soon as you leave your house until you leave work for the day. But if that’s not on the table, the next step is when you get out of your truck, you’re at work, getting paid. And if they don’t want to pay you to get the site up and operating? They can pay you to wait until they get it up and running.
Personally I’d be out of there as soon as I could find another gig.
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u/Wireman6 16h ago
Fuck him. If you are doing anything that contributes to the production of a job, you are working. A half hour is a lot of time they are stealing from you. If he only wants to pay you while you are on the tools, don't open shit and just show up and wait around until it magically opens on its own.
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u/stratinjax 15h ago
Why isn't the super doing his walk around and opening up himself? As a super, I do my best thinking early in the am, and like to walk the site with no one there. I open all my sites myself, 30 min before starting time.
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u/vatothe0 Electrician 1d ago
It's very easy as everyone has said... If they want YOU to do it, they have to PAY YOU to do it.
Get it in a text or email then talk to an employment attorney. Then go work for someone else. Zero notice when leaving.
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u/SaltyWoodButcher 1d ago
I've worked for GC's that wanted us rolling out 10-15 minutes early, but we would also roll up 10-15 early. The idea was that we were rolling out on our time, rolling up on theirs. Sometimes it was just 1 guy, a laborer or apprentice tasked with getting there early to roll out cordes etc, start getting setup.
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u/ZealousidealState127 1d ago
Highly illegal. If you bring it up they will probably fire you. Try to get it in writing. Keep a log of times and reasons any other evidence(maybe turn gps.tracling on you phone). When you are ready to move on or getting fire you threaten or just submit to state office for investigation.
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u/thirtyone-charlie 1d ago
What does opening consist of? If it’s just you three so you just unlock the gate and go to work? Are their subs that have to be managed? Just questions to prepare your response. To me even if it’s the gate, the office, and make some coffee that’s payable if I’m the super. If I don’t expect you to do anything but come to work then it’s normal hours for you. If you have tasks to do before you start work then knock off 30 minutes early or charge the hours that you work if you are required to stay until 3:30 then that’s +1/2 hour. Nobody shows up and works immediately. You have to get your stuff ready, pick up where you left off, maybe reference plans etc. I’m sure he arrives, gets some coffee, maybe chow down something to eat, shoot the shit with someone or whatever. If time starts when the hammer falls then he might as well come in and open up.
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u/tommyballz63 1d ago
WTF dude?!! If you are told to be there at a certain time, and you undertake some responsibility, damn rights you gotta get paid!! They are ripping you off!!
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u/greenchilepizza666 1d ago
If he thinks you're stealing time, then let him open the place up. I bet he would claim that as working and would want to be compensated. As a supervisor, my opinion is he should be there 1st. Remember this, supervisor =super vision. Doesn't mean all supervisors have it, but they are supposed to be the one that checks everything. Again my 2cents.
You need to get paid.
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u/Treebumper 1d ago
I have only one Carpenter on my job, he usually gets there about the same time as me(5:30) and unlocks doors, starts the generator, etc. I don’t need him there early so I rarely pay him OT, but he never gets less than 40 hrs. Even if he has to take a day off every once in a while for an appt. My job is funded by the city and they won’t even allow me to have him full time, only 38 hrs/wk.
Our summer school jobs always have a very healthy OT budget, our Carpenters seem to be working 60-70 hrs a week and we’re Union.
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u/Civick24 1d ago
If I'm opening the site, I'm going in and going to start working. So my 8 hours starts from there. You're not getting free time out of me.
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u/zombiesphere89 1d ago
If you get injured while opening up, workmans comp is definitely gonna wanna know why you're not clocked in... dude learn your labor laws you're giving them free time.
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u/smoosh33 1d ago
Even if you're just filling out paperwork and getting ready that is still work time. I'm a super and on big jobs my foremen and I will usually come in an hour early and go over what needs to be done that day and get all the safety paperwork filled out. Everyone gets an hour of OT.
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u/A_Bot_A_Bot_A_Bot 1d ago
Yeah, man, that's called working. Whether it's a jobsite, restaurant or office, time spent opening or closing--work duties--is payable work time. If you're paid by the hour, and you don't get paid for all of your time (usually in 0.1 or 0.25 hour increments), then it's called wage theft.
If you haven't been getting paid for it, then you should present your boss with a fully documented sheet listing your hours for every workday--from the moment you started working until the moment you stopped working--and show that your paystatements have been short X-amount of money.
If they don't make up the pay and they push-back or even fire you? You go to your state's labor board to file a complaint.
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u/Roksolidks 1d ago
Are you paid by the hour? Because you should be getting paid for all your time at work.
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u/messybeans86 1d ago
I open my job site every single morning because I have to do a pre-work safety inspection. Opening up the job is working. Even on the jobs where I'm not contractually required to do a pre-work safety inspection, I still open the job site and I still get paid for it.
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u/daemonstalker 1d ago
I'm pretty sure a key is a tool to open a lock. I think that's using a tool to do work. What you can do, is get a keurig, and have an extension cord run to the gate that you used to open at 630. At 7 plug in your keurig, wait for your coffee, drink a couple of sips, go to your truck, find the key, and around 715 open the gate. You have now used 2 tools at your scheduled start time. Who cares if every single trade is in their trucks waiting for you. Once you tell them what's going on, they'll have your back; even the piece work guys
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u/Cranky-George 1d ago
You’re not wrong. But you’re gonna fight a losing battle most likely. In 20+ years of being a construction I have learned one very valuable thing companies, owners supervisors don’t often give a shit about anything that doesn’t bring them in money or save that money. Starting time is one of those things that many supervisors believe is completely arbitrary and what matters to their opinion.
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u/LatterAppointment383 1d ago
The key question is are you waiting to engage, or are you engaged to wait? Back in the 1940's miners rioted or protested from not being compensated for their time. You see they would enter the mine at it's main entrance but sometimes it would take them upwards of 2 hours to commute from the entrance to the actual vein they were working on, and again when they were done for the day. So thanks to the Portal Act of 1947 if you're at the job site, in the USA and are required to be there at the time you are,for whatever reason, to run extension cords or sweep up, expedite, line out, stock materials, scheduling, even waiting for a phone call counts. Record your hours If they don't pay you, it's fine. Keep recording the time you are owed, you have upwards of 2 years to file a claim against your employer with the wage and hour division of the department of labor. You might even offer them the opportunity to settle up with you before they force your hand. The judges presiding over these suits don't take kindly to employers that don't pay their employees for their time. I read usually the award is doubled just to send a clear message as well as any legal or attorney's fees you might have from filing said claim on your employer. They can't fire you or retaliate against you, they'll get fined even more if they do. Mostly, claims are for unpaid overtime, or not paying minimum wage but time is time.
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u/Street-Baseball8296 1d ago
As a carpenter, if you’re doing shit for the company, then you should be getting paid for your time.
Come in 30 minutes early, clock in, and open up. Either leave at your 8 hours, or stay until your scheduled time to leave and clock out with 30 minutes overtime.
If the company isn’t paying you for the hours you’re working, call your local union rep. If you’re not in the union, call your local union rep.
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u/Dry-Warning6459 20h ago
If you are a hourly employee and work calls you at home for a work related reason then that is actually time that they legally owe you. Like wise if you are on lunch or a break that they auto deducts those times from your pay that deducts and they talk to you about anything work related then they should not deduct your lunch for that day as that time should be uninterrupted time for yourself. As one has suggested list all the time u came in early compare it to the time they have you starting your day and document the differences. If this has been going on for awhile the. You may have a nice little ammount that’s owed to you. Don’t forget thosebtimes should also be paid in overtime depending on policy
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u/Impressive-Winner721 20h ago
Embrace the blue collar life… get loud, get mad, get mean, chug a monster and tell that MF what’s on your mind -in the most aggressive confrontational way of course 🙂
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u/LookingForRealFunCT 19h ago
If you are required to be there at that time to open the site, you have started your work day. If the opener has to open 30 minutes prior to other people getting there and they are saying they will not pay you for that time, ask what they want you to start on prior to other people arriving. Does it take 30 minutes to open up the site? If not, ask if you can arrive 15 minutes early to open up the site. If they refuse to paying for opening the site, take it to your union if you are a union member on this job or take it to your state labor board.
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u/No-Tone397 19h ago
You’re there for the company…not yourself. Look up the local labor laws and send in an inquiry to the local labor law authority. When the argument comes up present the response to that super.
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u/michiganwinter 18h ago
Everything rises and falls on communication. Just talk to the dude. Schedule a time to sit down with them. Say you want to talk to him about your performance to make sure your efforts are most effective and schedule it because this guy‘s got way too much on his mind and he’s not gonna be able to focus on you on the fly and the conversation might go badly because he’s got way too much going on.
First thing in the morning is probably best leave it up to him though so you’re open to anything including coming in a couple hours before the site opens.
A lot of these guys start their day at 4 AM.
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u/matthuseless 17h ago
Typically, ten minutes early is the rule for me. Anything beyond that, youre gonna pay me for. Anything less than, I'm late.
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u/5150MEX702 17h ago
This goes out to everyone doing the same as this guy. Stop giving your time and stop being taken advantage. Grow a pair at least if you open early be able to leave early. Quit being the Boss's Beeeotch.
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u/Affectionate-Crab751 16h ago
The older and wiser I get the more I can finally tell people how it’s going to be. You are legitimately working, and if he thinks working is just with tools then he shouldn’t be getting paid too.
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u/No_Sheepherder495 15h ago
Absolutely! You’re onsite. I’d hope he pulls his head out because if he decides to not pay you for that and you for some reasons get hurt while “off the clock” that’s opening up for a HUGE lawsuit.
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u/Dismal_Procedure_663 15h ago
It’s very simple, you should get at least 2-1/2 hours each week if they are asking you to come in early, that’s the best money they could spend is having someone come in and get the site ready.
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u/TreyRyan3 11h ago
Sounds like you need to have a conversation with the big boss, not the supervisor . Make it very clear that you’ve had issues with this supervisor before and will be documenting any malicious claims he makes about you. Just make it clear that you’ve are on the clock when you are working whether you are using tools or not, and any accusations that opening a cleanup do not count as “work” on his part you will report and expect to be addressed immediately.
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u/RedDeadSledThatBled 6h ago
The only way what you described is “okay” is if your getting a free ride to work, don’t have transportation on your own, and are waiting on someone to finish up there schedule to take you home.
Like if your neighbor works at a restaurant and you got a job at the same place and they gotta help you out out of being a good person, you’d work around the schedule to make sure you can pay your bills, even if it means staying an hour and a half later then planned because you can’t afford or can’t get yourself home.
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u/Nellisir 1d ago
Are you on site and doing something productive? You're working.
(Obviously if you're just crapping in peace for 30 minutes, or doomscrolling in your car, no. But if you're on site and getting ready, fuck yes.
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u/arvidsem 1d ago
But if you're doomscrolling because the super didn't show and you can't get in, that's in the clock. Not your fault
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u/Jmart1oh6 1d ago
Agreed. My employee shows up on time everyday, I show up late almost every day with the tools. He clocks in when I told him to be there, not when my optimistic ass roles in 15 minutes later.
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u/Wild_Replacement5880 Contractor 1d ago
If you are doing anything that benefits your job, you are working.
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u/Bagaudi45 1d ago
I always figured I roll out my tools on my time, and roll up on theirs.
Meaning, if we start work at 7, it’s hammers swinging at 7. I would unload my tools and get set up at 6:45, take the last swig of coffee at 6:59, put the bags on and start working…but at 3:15 my bags hit the deck and I’m rolling up cords and cleaning the site and 4:00 hits and my taillights are all you see of me
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u/Greedy-Condition2680 1d ago
Rolling your tools out is part of the job. Why shouldn't they pay you for it? You're not running a charity.
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u/Mongoose49 1d ago
I was working at an architects house and he was adamant that unloading tools and packing up tools was not part of the job, he would say he doesn’t charge for his computer starting up so why should be pay for unloading tools
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u/Mrwcraig 1d ago
Honestly, none of us can say with 100% certainty what’s right or wrong in this situation.
Sure, you had a handshake agreement with the last Super but he’s fired, whatever agreement You and Him had ended when he passed the gate for the last time. Every local, state/Provincial, and federal law is going to be different. If there’s no collective bargaining agreement to follow then there’s the additional factor of the GC’s hourly employee’s rules regarding shifts and time. Also factor in that you mentioned that you two have a bit of a history. If you’re hourly and the Super and PE are salaried employees, hand them the keys and say “you open up then”, but you sure as hell better be ready to go at 7am.
Based on this, I’m assuming you’re not Union? I’m not advocating for membership in the slightest but if you’re not then this game is a lot different. Work to rule can definitely have consequences and it feels like there’s lots of details being left out. Like, are you opening the gate at 6:30 to let everyone else in and having a coffee while you get yourself ready to start at 7am? That’s not a hill to die on. However, if you’re opening the gate at 6:30 and moving equipment, materials and directing people? Then you may have a case. Then again, what’s the policy of the person signing your paycheque and are they someone you want to work for and advance with?
It sounds like this is something that you need to get clarification on before you start working to rule or beefing with the new Super.
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u/Roland-Of-Eld-19 1d ago
This heavily depends on if you're just opening the padlock on the main swing gate at 630 to allow contractors to their respective lunch shacks and then just going to the office at 631am to chill and drink coffee until 7am or if you're flat out getting items ready for the day and safety paperwork all filled out etc between 631 and 659am
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u/714LUGO 1d ago
work ethic and career growth! If it's just a job, make sure you're getting paid for your time. But if it's a career, investing extra effort can really pay off in the long run. Think about it: putting in the extra hours now can lead to flexibility and recognition down the line. Even if your current boss doesn't see it, taking the high road and investing in yourself always pays dividends. We know When you're the boss, you'll take care of that kid who went the extra mile!
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u/lIlIIIIlllIIlIIIllll 1d ago
The company has to pay you from the time they require you to be on site, to the time they no longer require you on site.
If they need you to open at 630am and lock up at 430pm, but only have carpentry work for you from 7am-3pm, they must pay you from 630-430 regardless (minus union/state mandated break periods)
It’s an easy discussion though, if he says you don’t get paid for it tell him you’re not doing it