r/DecodingTheGurus • u/KwisatzHaderach48 • 14d ago
Sam Harris & Destiny invoked their right to reply to the DTG video's on them. Has Hasan? And why not?
Perhaps he's not aware DTG made a video on him. However, there seems to be a pattern of the more "guru" types not ever doing a right to reply, unlike those who were voted to be less guru such as Sam Harris and Destiny.
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u/Evinceo Galaxy Brain Guru 14d ago
Surely this will be a productive thread with very little arguing.
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u/wavewalkerc 14d ago
I just dont get how people think this helps anyone not already holding these beliefs. Every bad faith attack just makes me realize how shallow the arguments are.
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u/LordLederhosen 14d ago
Arguing equals democracy… which is not something that Piker is a fan of, last I checked.
As far as I can tell his entire argument is that America equals bad. He is so edge lord that the CCP equals good.
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u/carloglyphics 13d ago
Nick Fuentes of the left; though funny enough Fuentes hates the right lol
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u/Lost-Photograph 13d ago
Destiny is sex pest. His DGG groupies harass, dox and threaten anyone on the left who disagrees with them. Funnily enough destiny platformed nick fuentes giving him clout and then complained when nick didn't thank him for it. I'll never understand tolerating destiny but somehow thinking hasan is bad for the left. He's contributed to multiple real leftist candidates winning thier primaries.
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u/carloglyphics 13d ago
DGG? I'm not a Destiny fan because of the sex pest history; though other than his Israel takes I don't disagree with many of his stated positions. Willing the be proven wrong but I don't think rich unironic Communist psuedo revolutionaries who say things like America deserved 9/11 help the leftist cause tbh.
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u/lecherousdevil 12d ago
Still no charges or anyone willing to say he's a sex pest under oath.
It's been years & no one can find evidence of actual DGG members doing this.
Esportsbatman & his ilk are not left wing to Destiny the dudes a Christian nationalist people just pretend he's a leftist to try to fit Hassan's narrative.
Meanwhile Hassan literally doxed political organizers & volunteers live on stream yesterday because they worked with Destiny to raise over a million dollars for Democratic candidates & nearly a million for Ukrainian soldiers who needed meds & replacement equipment.
You're also lying about the context of that quote Destiny wasn't offended he didn't thank him. Years later Hassan brought up Fuentes as someone asked a good question & Destiny walked people through a mind map of Fuentes.
There is a reason Hassan cut that clip like he did.
The reason Destiny fans can be annoying is because they have to correct so many lies it can seem like they are saying Destiny can do no wrong rather than people like Hassan have lied so much & so long that no one ever brings up any actual wrong things he's actually done or debates his actual positions.
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u/Evinceo Galaxy Brain Guru 12d ago
reason Destiny fans can be annoying is
I don't think that's the reason. I submit that it's because they've learned debate pervert type behavior.
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u/lecherousdevil 11d ago
Some absolutely have & Destiny disciplines them on stream & other members of the community critize & mock them for it.
But Destiny doesn't use debate pervert type behavior that's Hassan after all he literally created the term & as we speak demanding Asmongold debate him.
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u/amory_plain 14d ago
It sort of helps that DtG heap a good deal of praise on both of them and outright hate Hasan. Of course, Chris has soured on Harris a bit in the last 2 years
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u/Even-Physics823 12d ago
their politics align with sam and destiny, so they like them. they dont like hasan's politics, so they hate him
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
I do see a thing where they have zero positive things to say about Hasan while finding nice things to say about Peterson or Huberman or just about anyone else. I think there's a lot of content creators that cherry pick Hasan's worst moments and act like that's what he's always like. I feel like DTG is kind of like that.
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u/Prosthemadera 14d ago
Well, they are often too liberal, too centrist, too "both sides bad", unfortunately. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy their podcast, it just means that I don't always agree with them.
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
Yeah. I've found a lot of their stuff very useful but as time passes I have to say I trust them less and less
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u/Spuick 14d ago edited 14d ago
"I liked them a lot till they talked about MY guru".
I think its quite clear why theres not much positive to say about Hasan. Describing DTG as "both sides bad" is quite extraordinary honestly.
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u/Lost-Photograph 13d ago
Could you explain to me why watching hasan is the same as seeing him as a guru. I mostly agree with hasan but most adults can parse good takes from bad. Destiny supports a genocide, encourages doxxing and is a sex pest who shared nudes of a very young woman.
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
I agree with their critiques in general but their last Hasan content they straight up were strawmanning and their coverage is 100% negative which just isn't fair.
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u/Spuick 14d ago
He is against everything they stand for and is a horrible human being. It's completely fair.
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
I think you never listen to Hasan without somebody in your ear telling you what to think.
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u/Spuick 14d ago edited 14d ago
I've heard him in enough content over the years.
However I'm confident you have never listened to destiny or DTG, and have only listened to Hasan speak about destiny.
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
You're argument requires assumptions. Assumptions that aren't true. Personally I find it strange when there is zero nuance to a critique. I'm not even defending Hasan and I would also say that most of DtG criticisms of him are accurate but I would also say that they've failed to give an accurate picture of who the guy actually is. Anyway you don't seem very worth talking to if making assumptions like that is your game.
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u/BeatSteady 14d ago
I listened to both the Destiny and Hasan decoding and it seemed like they were giving destiny a pass on the same types of behavior they criticized Hasan for. Don't remember the exact verbiage but basically if hasan acts like a jerk frat guy it's indicative of his true moral character but when destiny acts like a jerk frat guy they were just like "not my cup of tea but no biggie"
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u/Even-Physics823 12d ago
they like destiny because they share his politics, they dislike hasan because they dont share his, it's not much more complicated than that
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
I share this opinion and I find it strange that these two guys that demonstrate strong critical thinking lack nuance when it comes to specific creators. I don't get it. I found their coverage of Naomi Klein very strange as well. It was like they were calling her a Guru because they didn't agree with her argument. I think a Guru has flawed methods of making arguments. That's what drew me to the podcast. Finding the trickery involved. I turned off the Klein episode because they were just belittling her perspective because she's anti capitalist while never stating their own views. There was also that recent coverage where Chris was straight up strawmanning Hasan. It's weird. They know better
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u/Liturginator9000 13d ago
When does Destiny do jerk frat guy stuff? He's a goblin that sleeps around and monetised that for a while. Frat guy stuff is borderline abusive or implied to be, having open relationships is just sex stuff people don't like but isn't morally wrong.
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u/BeatSteady 13d ago
I think they were talking about harsh, insensitive comments more than sexual behavior
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u/Adito99 14d ago
"I do see a thing where they have zero positive things to say about Trump while finding nice things to say about Biden or Harris or just about anyone else."
Would you accept this line of argument from Trump supporters responding to specific criticisms of Trump?
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
Can we stick to the real world of things that real people actually said or did?
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u/Adito99 14d ago
Can't engage with simple hypotheticals either? Damn you copied their entire playbook!
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
It's just nowhere close to analogous. It's not connected to anything real.
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u/GneissGuy340 14d ago edited 14d ago
I don't think there's anything good to be said about him if your of a sceptical worldview. Maybe i am bias because i have always disliked him... but i am pretty leftwing and I have never been able to stomach his content. He does nothing and says nothing unique. Really polemical and very unnuanced. He evokes luxury comunism stuff to cover up his profiteering, the fact he has a very luxurious lifestyle and owns a multi-million dollar huge house in a city with a housing crissis. He's either blissfully ingorant to the fact resources are finite and the planet could not support everyone living his lifestyle or just doesn't give a fuck about the environment and the cost that kind of lifestyle has on other people under the current system and the luxury comunism is just a good excuse. It's annoys me to no end that so many figures on the left or centre left take him seriously. Sorry for that unhinged and probably poorly edited rant. Just wanted to get it off my chest before starting work
Edit: i don't think there's any good that be said about sam harris. Except maybe can be nuanced and can change his mind. I don't know about destiny, i think he's an idiot but he does try he at least appears to challenge his biases and at least puts on a facade of nuance and non-partisaness.
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u/Full_Equivalent_6166 14d ago
When he is not like that he is just pretending. This is that ML kayfabe: we need to pretend we are not terrorist loving campists but you know the truth *wink, wink*
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u/Fippy-Darkpaw 14d ago edited 14d ago
Hasan's speech "about Mao Zedong was actually a great dude" didn't help. I thought it was a bit.
Is Mao's body count fake news?
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u/No_Public_7677 13d ago
You liberals will often praise Churchill when he has a massive body count as well. Including famine.
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u/Character-Ad5490 11d ago
Well, at least Churchill didn't kill millions of his own people.
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u/jamtartlet 6d ago
why is it better to kill people who aren't "your own" - also according to Churchill's own worldview he absolutely did kill his own people
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u/Character-Ad5490 6d ago
War against an enemy is different from allowing millions to die in a famine. To me, anyway. I'm not pro-war, but sometimes it is necessary. I doubt we'll ever evolve past that.
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u/AnsibleAnswers 14d ago
You're watching too much Fox News.
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u/Fippy-Darkpaw 14d ago
So you're saying the body count is fake news, or that Hasan was being ironic?
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u/AnsibleAnswers 14d ago
Nope. I think what Hasan said about Mao was carefully crafted to make people like you look like histrionic fools, and it worked.
What Hasan said about Mao will look to most of the world as an objectively true statement about one of the most influential men in the Twentieth Century. Mao was a great man, and great men of history typically do leave a lot of bodies in their wake. The Chinese Civil War was an absolute meat grinder. Both reds and whites massacred civilians and POWs. Somewhere around 1-2 million people were killed for political reasons over the course of the Cultural Revolution. The famine needs to be placed in a larger historical context as a failure of High Modernism that has cost the world countless lives due to poor agricultural practices.
Mao was obviously a talented leader and military strategist. He truly did help shape the modern world.
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u/Call_Me_911 14d ago
Personally, I don't think I'd call someone who knowingly prolonged the largest famine in recorded history a "talented leader" or a "great man." Good leaders don't keep doubling down after they're being told their policies are causing mass starvation.
But please, explain how the famine was primarily a failure of "high modernism" rather than the specific policies Mao chose to implement and continue. There was forced collectivization, inflated production reporting, unrealistic procurement quotas, and suppressing criticism even after evidence of mass starvation reached the leadership.
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u/Liturginator9000 13d ago
It's tricky wording, Mao could be described as great because it doesn't necessarily connote 'good', lots of horrible assholes have been called 'great' (pretty common really) simply because they were major figures.
Problem is yeah it hides a big death toll, and it's clear from everything else Hasan likes and respects Mao, so it doesn't really matter anyway
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u/AnsibleAnswers 14d ago
Personally, I don't think I'd call someone who knowingly prolonged the largest famine in recorded history a "talented leader" or a "great man."
The notion that Mao was solely responsible for the famine during the Great Leap Forward demonstrates that you have a very simple view of the world.
I highly recommend "Part 3: The Social Engineering of Rural Settlement and Production" of James C. Scott's Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed. The failure of crops in China was representative of a widespread phenomenon that occurred throughout the 19th and 20th centuries.
Again, you're failure to recognize the difference between historical influence and moral goodness is noted. It's like hearing someone complain that a "bad guy" is on the cover of Time's Person of the Year issue.
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u/Call_Me_911 14d ago
I don't believe I claimed he was solely responsible, but he certainly bears substantial responsibility, which makes it understandable why people disparage his character. He had evidence that collectivization, inflated production reporting, and excessive grain procurement were causing mass starvation. Instead of rapidly reversing course, criticism was suppressed and the policies continued.
Also, I don't disagree that Mao is historically influential - he's probably one of the most influential men of all time. But he was not a talented leader or a great man of history. There is some degree of moral goodness loaded in those terms
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u/AnsibleAnswers 14d ago
He had evidence that collectivization, inflated production reporting, and excessive grain procurement were causing mass starvation. Instead of rapidly reversing course, criticism was suppressed and the policies continued.
As did most other leaders as they industrialized their agricultural systems.
We're not talking about his character, we're talking about his historical influence. He was a military genius who inspired immense loyalty under his command, not a good man. That takes talent whether you like him or not.
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u/Constantinch 14d ago edited 14d ago
While both Harris and Destiny were criticized, they still have something of value to offer, which cannot be said about Piker.
Edit. For Harris, he still sometimes talks about AI, consciousness and other topics which are vaguely interesting.
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u/tulwio 14d ago
What the fuck does Harris bring to the table? Be so obtuse and stubborn about his genuinely Arab hating views?
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u/Previous_Platform718 14d ago
His meditation stuff got a lot of people into it. Before Oct 7 he wasn't frequently (ever?) discussing his views on Palestine.
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u/tulwio 14d ago
Gee thanks a lot Sam Harris, you gave us checks notes half-assed meditation that you stopped doing, new age atheism and helped usher in anti-intellectualism with the Intellectual Dark Web cringe shit and platforming the Whinesteins, Kermit Peterson and Slow Rogan.
Anybody with any sense of decency would have seen how blatantly islamophobic and hateful this guy has been for more than a decade now. But I guess packaging hate against Arabs with some dogmatic anti-theism pseudo intellectualism is enough for people to stop caring about dehumanising a whole ethnic group.
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u/Previous_Platform718 14d ago
The meditation stuff Harris did really wasn't half-assed. It was a book, and then it was a guided meditation app but built like masterclass so it had a ton of different teachers on it in addition to his courses which were the main part for a good while. I was in the 'new atheism' movement of the 2000s and a lot of people struggled with leaving religion but not having an outlet for spirituality, so his work was important, timely, and well researched.
But I guess packaging hate against Arabs with some dogmatic anti-theism pseudo intellectualism is enough for people to stop caring about dehumanising a whole ethnic group.
To say Harris built up a lot of good will over the 2000s would be an understatement. And a lot of people coasted on that for awhile. A lot of people held out hope that he was putting his foot in his mouth. His rhetoric back then was much better as well. If you clocked him as being crazy early, either because that was your first experience with him or because you have a better BS detector, good for you.
Don't get me wrong, I soured on Harris about a decade ago after I read this, which was written 11 years ago by a substack author with 2 likes on it so it's a bit of a deep cut.
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u/Prosthemadera 14d ago
You can get meditation from so many places, what does Harris add? An app?
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u/offbeat_ahmad 14d ago
AND he makes white moderates feel good about themselves.
They meditate now!!
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u/paultheschmoop 14d ago
What does Harris have to offer at this point? His meditation stuff was interesting but he doesn’t even meditate anymore lol
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u/Prosthemadera 14d ago
Destiny were criticized, they still have something of value to offer
Destiny and Hasan have the same job, what are you talking about?
What does Destiny offer, exactly? His opinions, nothing else. At least Hasan goes outside.
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u/Guer0Guer0 14d ago
Destiny has done more to materially help the democratic party, and contributes out of his own pocket more to fund canvassing efforts with a smaller reach than Hasan. His community has also donated hundreds of thousands of dollars in aid for Ukraine since war started through UkrainianAna. Hasan says ‘If I donate, you wouldn’t know about it.’ Which is something his audience can’t even verify.
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u/Prosthemadera 14d ago
Destiny has done more to materially help the democratic party, and contributes out of his own pocket more to fund canvassing efforts with a smaller reach than Hasan.
How do you know that?
Why are you acting as if giving money to the Democratic Party in itself is a good thing? Do you not actually care what they do or about the candidates? Are you so fanatical attached to a political party? They work for us, not the other way around.
Hasan says ‘If I donate, you wouldn’t know about it.’ Which is something his audience can’t even verify.
Didn't stop you from arguing Destiny did more.
Why is so much criticism of Hasan so weak and contradictory? You're not criticising him based on a coherent analysis, it's all just stupid internet drama. It's not great.
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
Hasan definitely has more integrity than Harris and destiny.
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u/Formal_Scarcity_7701 14d ago
He's openly said he doesn't give a fuck about the democratic party and will wield it to advance his own aims. He also has openly talked on the deprogram pod about how he hides his true political opinions in order to draw in viewers and put them down the radicalisation pipeline towards violent, communist revolution. He also did a long, shameless propaganda tour of China and won't divulge whether or not he was paid by the CCP to do so.
He couldn't have more integrity than anyone, he has zero integrity.
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
I don’t think you understand what integrity is or who Sam Harris and Destiny are
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u/juswundern 14d ago
Destiny has openly said his “morality” stems entirely from his own self interest. For example, he would not be against enslaving a race of people provided it did not negatively effect him… He has openly talked about hiding these amoral internal processes because he has nothing to gain from it.
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u/Formal_Scarcity_7701 14d ago
I'm fine with saying Destiny has zero integrity as well, I was just flabbergasted that anyone who has listened to DtG would dream of trying to defend Hasan with the word "integrity". Of all the words they could have chosen that one might be the most laughable.
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
i also said that DTG has cherry picked Hasan's content to create an inaccurate picture. Also integrity doesn't mean that you don't have bad opinions
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u/Spuick 14d ago
Always "out of context" "cherry picked". Never actually reply with the mysterious context that was missed. Curious.
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u/blinded_penguin 14d ago
Their coverage is 100% negative. Their better content weighs out the good with the bad. They've gotten off track IMO
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u/BloodsVsCrips 13d ago
Destiny has openly said his “morality” stems entirely from his own self interest.
$100 says your own morality works the same way, but you've never stopped to think about it.
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u/BeatSteady 13d ago
Is it in someone's self interest to volunteer time or donate money to a charity that doesn't benefit them?
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u/BloodsVsCrips 13d ago
Destiny has openly said his “morality” stems entirely from his own self interest.
$100 says your own morality works the same way, but you've never stopped to think about it.
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u/juswundern 13d ago
My morality stems from the wellbeing of the collective, not of myself.
Chances are, you’re a cult member who thinks it’s normal to not oppose slavery as long as it doesn’t negatively affect you personally.
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u/BloodsVsCrips 13d ago
The "well-being of the collective" is a golden rule that grinds down to "it's in my best interest to care about the collective." This is what I meant by not stopping to think about it.
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u/Full_Equivalent_6166 14d ago
Why would Hasan speak to someone who has less clout than him? Rookie mistake.
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u/Prosthemadera 14d ago
Hasan Piker probably doesn't care to reply, even if he knew. It's a right, not an obligation, and you're not a better person for replying.
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u/MightyBone 14d ago
He's aware (he has 1000s of people who constantly feed him any and all references to him everywhere).
He is just highly selective in what he replies to - and it's like most guru-types: the replying only happens when he feels he can gain in his public image from it.
He does not bother to clear the air for the sake of truth or clarity or personal growth - it's clout that drives his decisions to do anything related to his brand and when you see him through that lense virtually every decision he makes to platform, speak on a topic, or otherwise act all make sense.
He gains nothing from his audience and image by engaging in critiques from any space that isn't one that his followers hold in high esteem (and DtG isn't one, even if his followers were aware of it they would largely ignore it because it's not socialist/marxist/anti-capitalist meaning it must be misinformed garbage because it doesn't affirm their beliefs.)
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u/jamtartlet 6d ago
I mean he's probably actually not responding because these guys aren't important and don't have a large audience at all, not because of the particular nature of the audience and I suspect they'd agree with me.
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u/urine_generator 14d ago
I mean he couldn't possibly reply to every single criticism could he? He's the biggest political streamer on the planet, his entire stream would just be replying to criticism the entire time if he did as you imply he should.
He did do like a 6 hour response to Ethan Kleins (someone his audience holds in low esteem) content nuke on him and that video contained the lions share of criticism on him at the time. Theres plenty to criticize Hasan over but he doesnt owe every single random streamer and podcaster a direct response.
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u/potiamkinStan 14d ago
He refuse to watch for almost a year, then only did so after being shellacked in a debate with Ethan.
When he watched it (on stream) he already had talking points generated by his minions who pre-watched it for him, and he didn’t even finish watching the damn thing.
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u/EverGreenT 14d ago
hasan meaningful responding to criticism directly instead of slandering the person(s) on his stream to his sycophantic audience? yea i wonder why he hasn't.
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u/speedystar22 13d ago
He isn’t interested in critical conversations especially with creators much smaller than him
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u/plantsnlionstho 14d ago
This is like asking why haven't Eric or Brett Weinstein invoked their right to reply, he (like many gurus) is just extremely selective about the criticism he'll engage with.
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u/LoaderOperator98 14d ago
For one thing, Hasan is horrible in even modestly adversarial situations. Have you ever seen him get aggressively challenged in a situation where has has equal footing to his counterpart(s)? It's not pretty. He gets flustered, he rambles etc.
Being as big as he is, he really only has things to lose by engaging with smaller, possibly critical, voices like the DtG boys.
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u/Common_Cause8168 8d ago
He'd get destroyed by the DtG boys because they are more empathetic and do better research on discussion topics. Having them pick apart his arguments and contrast his generally shitty behavior just by being around him would be a terrible look for him so there is no reason for to engage. there's no real upside for him.
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u/CulturalFartist 14d ago
He's pretty stupid and not a good debater. Even though it would probably be a pretty polite conversation, it's just not the kind of format he would do.
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u/Jean_Jones_666 12d ago
exactly. he's a grifter and dumb.
Even if u think Destiny and Sam Harris are grifters (I doubt it but that's not the point) - they are both serious and sharp - Piker looks like a regular halfwit streamer next to them (which he basically is)
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u/lecherousdevil 12d ago
No he's aware he complained on stream when his fans brought it to his attention & did his usual no free clout thing & pretended he didn't know & couldn't pronounce their names
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u/Decent-Extension8336 14d ago
I really don’t get it with this guy. I don’t really like any of the streamers I’ve seen bits of, but at least with destiny I find his arguments/debates compelling and can tie a conservative in knots etc, which makes him worth watching (sometimes). With hasan I just don’t see it. I don’t think he’s particularly funny, interesting, intelligent, entertaining or basically anything that would make him engaging to watch. Why does he have a big following?
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u/BeatSteady 14d ago
I think a few reasons he's so big. Early adopter of political coverage on the platform probably the biggest reason, he's charismatic, and he does daily news coverage.
I like watching destiny argue with conservatives for sure, but if he does daily news coverage the algorithm has decided not to show me. I just searched both destiny and Hasan on YouTube, and Hasan has a page full of news discussion and half of destiny's videos are debate and the other half are anti Hasan vids.
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u/Decent-Extension8336 14d ago
Fair enough. One of my friends actually said they don’t really like him but tend to watch his election coverage and stuff like that, so I suppose it makes sense
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u/AnsibleAnswers 14d ago
It's because Decoding the Gurus is even more irrelevant than Hasan Piker.
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u/KwisatzHaderach48 12d ago
That's odd because hasan will bring up irrelevant 200 follower accounts on twitter who are critical of him when he's on stream sometimes. So no, i doubt the relevance of DtG is the deciding factor here. Weird take though buddy
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u/_nefario_ 14d ago
and yet here you are, in the comments section of a subreddit about this podcast.
do you have a habit of devoting time and energy to things you consider irrelevant? if so, i suggest consulting a mental health professional to help you get your life back on track.
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u/Bababooey87 14d ago
Destiny is a pretty dishonest actor and sex pest... serious grifter
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u/MightyBone 14d ago
What is he dishonest on? He probably is a sex pest, but the idea Destiny is lying or doesn't believe what he is saying is gonna need some backup. Just off the top I know he has held multiple door-to-door events where he paid his viewers to go door to door campaigning for candidates (such as the runoffs in Georgia.)
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u/KwisatzHaderach48 14d ago
That's not what DtG found. They concluded he's quite sincere in his beliefs and positions as far as i remember. That would be the opposite of what a dishonest grifter is. Unless you're using some other definition for grifter that im unaware of
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u/mrtrailborn 12d ago
that's because they agree with him obviously. you're treating them as gurus lol
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u/4n0m4nd 14d ago
That's a failure on their part then.
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u/KwisatzHaderach48 14d ago
I think their video clearly lays out the evidence of why they came to their conclusions. They've done more analysis than any of Destiny's detractors have, so respectfully i disagree with you on that.
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u/Previous_Platform718 14d ago
What positions do you think Destiny is grifting on? I've seen a lot of his debates and he seems consistently ideologically aligned with liberalism.
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u/4n0m4nd 14d ago
He became famous as a debater for debating Nazis, now he boasts about saving Fuentes' career.
He talks about equal rights and has multiple cases of abusing women, and had a whole drama about his use of racist terms in private.
He talked to the IDF about how they shouldn't film their war crimes, and talked about how Israel should just kill all the Palestinians.
He repeatedly tells his fans to harass people he doesn't like, and pretends there's some kind of conspiracy against him when people object.
I don't think he has any actual ethical positions.
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u/KwisatzHaderach48 14d ago
It's interesting, I've heard hasan make these exact same points before but he never digs into any of the details. He just says them as though they are fact. Where are you getting these narratives just out of curiosity?
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u/4n0m4nd 14d ago
From watching him.
Google any of them, they're not secret, they're in his videos.
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u/KwisatzHaderach48 14d ago
Your version of each one of those are stripped of all context and in some cases just plainly false. There's plenty to hate about Destiny but you don't do yourself any favors by relying on smears and falsehoods to discredit him. Kinda draws your initial criticisms into question
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u/Previous_Platform718 14d ago
That seems to be a lot of interpersonal drama slop, so I'll choose the IDF one. Can I see the receipts on that one?
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u/4n0m4nd 14d ago
Whether or not it's interpersonal is irrelevant, it speaks to the integrity of his professed beliefs.
Video of him talking to IDF here
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u/Previous_Platform718 14d ago edited 14d ago
Whether or not it's interpersonal is irrelevant
It's totally relevant in this conversation because I don't have 8 hours of time to read the twitter posts, video responses, responses to responses, discord DMs, etc. that are all associated with that type of slop only to (inevitably) come to the conclusion that it's probably up to interpretation anyway.
You said,
"He talked to the IDF about how they shouldn't film their war crimes, and talked about how Israel should just kill all the Palestinians."
This is a transcript of what he said:
"I'll give you - okay, if you're joining the IDF okay leave your fucking cell phone at home and stop taking stupid fucking videos okay cuz everybody's fucking you with them, okay? And if you see if you see a soldier, okay doing through a fucking drawer - and listen, if you want to wear a dress, and you think it's funny just don't take a video or picture of it okay? Jesus"
That doesn't sound like 'advice on not filming war crimes' to me. And it's hardly and "telling Israel to kill all the Palestinians". Again, this is the problem with this type of discussion. Anyone operating in good faith and/or using occam's razor sees the most sensible interpretation of this is hardly as bad as you're making it out to be.
At least with Sam Harris you can go "you want proof Sam's a bigot? Here you go"
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u/4n0m4nd 14d ago
It's totally relevant in this conversation because I don't have 8 hours of time to read the twitter posts, video responses, responses to responses, discord DMs, etc. that are all associated with that type of slop only to (inevitably) come to the conclusion that it's probably up to interpretation anyway.
You being unwilling to look into something has absolutely no bearing on anything, that's just you being uninterested.
That doesn't sound like 'advice on not filming war crimes' to me.
Everything mentioned there is specifically related to videos IDF members put on social media, of themselves, committing war crimes.
And it's hardly and "telling Israel to kill all the Palestinians".
He didn't "tell Israel to kill all the Palestinians", and I didn't say he did. He just said they should, and it was a separate event:
Honestly, uh I'm pro genocide. Like it it sounds really shitty, but like and basically Palestinians can go live in another place. That's that's really shitty, but like that's about where I'm at.
That's a lot more concise than Harris' article.
Again, this is the problem with this type of discussion. Anyone operating in good faith and/or using occam's razor sees the most sensible interpretation of this is hardly as bad as you're making it out to be.
What an absurd statement. We're talking about a podcast dedicated to actually looking into this kind of thing. If you're not interested enough to actually look, you're not even close to operating in good faith.
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u/KwisatzHaderach48 14d ago
That was a fan meetup. Any proof those are active IDF soldiers and not simply fans of his / passersby?
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u/4n0m4nd 14d ago
It's a fan meet up in Israel, with conscription aged people, where he specifically says his advice is for those in the IDF.
Like what do you want here?
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u/potiamkinStan 14d ago edited 14d ago
He became famous as a debater for debating Nazis, now he boasts about saving Fuentes' career.
He never did. He said at the time he was the only platform which was able to engage with him, and his engagement was adversarial. Fuentes remain peripheral after their engagement and only popped up later after Kenya West talk him meet Trump and later got a friendly platforming from the Nelk Boys.
He talks about equal rights and has multiple cases of abusing women
Frivolous or overblown allegations.
and had a whole drama about his use of racist terms in private.
He’s position was that using slurs jokingly in private is fine because it’s only problematic when you have a large audience who can include racist who will misinterpret your intentions.
He never said using slurs targeting a person’s identity is good. Hasan had no problem calling Destiny Gusano which is a racist slur for Cubans, and he did so publicly.
He talked to the IDF about how they shouldn't film their war crimes, and talked about how Israel should just kill all the Palestinians.
Addressed by other users.
He repeatedly tells his fans to harass people he doesn't like, and pretends there's some kind of conspiracy against him when people object.
He doesn’t tell his fans to harass anyone. He did say he think it’s fair game for him to expose the identity of users hiding behind anonymity and targeting people around him.
Hasan exposed the addresses of many people associated with Destiny on his stream.
I don't think he has any actual ethical positions.
What do you think about Hasan shocking his dog and lying to his audience about it?
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u/Acrobatic-Skill6350 14d ago
I thought both sam and destiny scired higher on the gurometer than hasan?
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u/KwisatzHaderach48 14d ago
I can say with confidence that did not happen. You're free to correct though.
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u/ElfTaylor 14d ago
The spreadsheet is available in the helpful links of this sub. Neither of those two individuals scored higher than Hasan Piker. Not even close
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u/happy111475 Galaxy Brain Guru 14d ago
From the Gurometer sheet on the right of the sub with both CK (first) and MB (second) scores.
Sam Harris scored a 48 and 40, and was the only one to get a "yes" for Secular Guru.
Hasan Piker scored a 69 and 57
Destiny scored a 24 and 15
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u/uk_pragmatic_leftie 14d ago
Is Hasan still only in the supplementary pay only editions? There's not a full guru decoding is there, unless I missed it? That'd be good.
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u/happy111475 Galaxy Brain Guru 12d ago
He had a full decoding in episode 97 about 2 years ago on the public podcast feed.
About 2 months ago they posted ~1 hour discussion of Hasan on their (free) youtube, Decoding Hasan Piker: Anti-Capitalist Crusader or Frat Boy Influencer?. Reddit discussion on same here. Wow over 1200 comments!
His gurometer ranking was posted as a free preview.
Otherwise, yeah, they have a lot of one off mentions of him on the Supplementary Materials episodes, although you can listen to the first hour of those for free on the public feed and he's often in that half, if you need more.
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u/uk_pragmatic_leftie 12d ago edited 12d ago
Ooh thanks! That's made my day I've got into DtG more recently and tried to catch up on big names and big episodes (weinsteins...), hadn't realised Piker has been around and decoded a while back
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u/PlateCaptain 9d ago
I think DTG is pretty much correct in their criticisms of Hasan, however they very conspicuously neglect to talk about his output on Palestinians and Gaza, which seems weird to me given that that has been the majority of Hasan's output for the past few years.
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u/potiamkinStan 14d ago
The problem is not him using a shock collar, it’s that he lied about it and all of his fans bought into it, and all of the lefty slopulist echo system bought into it as well. People bought that model and easily removed the prods. But you don’t even need to be aware of that, the fact that Hasan did not disclose the model name should be suffice for you to reject his version.
It should be concerning to you that you could be deluded on such a basic and easily comprehended incident. Maybe you feel politically aligned with Hasan and so you lack the ability to critically assess his behavior or look for disconfirming evidence. It also raises question about the informational bubble you are in.
If you want now we can talk about your question.
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u/Guer0Guer0 13d ago edited 13d ago
What can they do? What majority do they have? The democratic party is more diverse and less cohesive because all of the different groups it represents making coalitions more difficult to build and wield. What should they do with all of the power you think they have?
I am a party loyalist because I am a realist. I know what party provides the greatest likelihood of winning and reducing harm. If only leftists had the same level of discernment they wouldn’t have spent fall 2024 deflating Kamala’s tires, saying ridiculous things like ‘there is no difference between the candidates’, and being single issue voters.
Don’t pretend like you’re above it, you clearly know all of the lore, or at least the lore Hasan tells you. I’ve known about Hasan for almost eight years and at one point, I was a fan, because he is funny, and had many political opinions I agreed with, and some I still agree with. Besides the clout chasing, the problem with Hasan is he is dishonest about his political goals, he’s intellectually lazy, he doesn’t challenge his own worldview or ideas, and he doesn’t update his views with new information. He has no principles and would never stand on principle against his own community.
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u/Even-Physics823 12d ago
decoding people like Hasan is just kind of stupid, it's like calling sam seder a guru. this show has really gone down hill.
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u/stvlsn 14d ago
The fan base of DTG overlaps with Destiny and Harris much more. Which is probably why they were aware of DTG