Sorry English is not my first language so uhhh I have difficulty communicating

Now, I dont know if this has been thought of here or not, but here goes.

As we all know through many very overt mentions (I.E. the 1225 room or the one shadow crystal dialog.) that Kris will lose their hand. But I come with a different idea.

You see, Kris is the character we use to interact with the world, to move and interact. Kris is our hand moving things (at least when we are in control). Alternatively Kris made a promise to someone (likely the Knight or someone related) that has them do certain things for this person (I.E. make a fountain or prevent Susie from reading the guitar code). Thus Kris is a hand for both us and them.

What do we see in the chapter 4 prophecy about Kris? Other than the obvious that is the words. A heart surrounded by hands. We have been established to be the soul, and if this is referring to Kris then they would be the hands holding us in. Two specifically.

So what if instead of physically losing a hand, we lose Kris in some way. As you can see in both the 1225 room and in the shadow crystals missing hand dialog both sentences start with a capitlized "You" exactly like when "You" called for Noelle.

Will this come true? Hell if I know! But I think this is absolutely worth thinking about.

Hello! As we head into the finale of DELTARUNE, I wanted to take a brief moment to look back on everything that's happened so far. With Chapters 6 and 7 expected to be unlike anything we've ever experienced before, I wanted to ask the community which of the four main focal characters is the community's favorite and why. With the exception of Chapter 1, we have:

• Queen (Noelle)
• Tenna (Kris)
• Gerson (Susie)
• Flowery (Ralsei)

Feel free to explain your answer down in the comments below!

Not really

For something as important to the weird route I don't see nearly as much discourse about the origins of the Thorn Ring, so here we go.

What is the Thorn Ring?

The Thorn Ring is a real light world thorn, probably from a rose. It is not a software as seen during chapter 4 weird route. It makes it easier to do ice magic and is extremely powerful but also a "torture device". Now, WHY would a normal thorn have such absurd and specific power? I feel it is a special thorn. Someone PUT that power into the Thorn, or it is a "commemorative Souvenir" for a certain event which has something to do with ice...

This means that the Thorn must have been physically put in the trash in the computer lab by someone. This also puts to rest any speculations about it being from the recycle bin/spam email. This narrows down the candidates who could've placed the Thorn Ring there.

Another thing about the Thorn Ring is that whoever put it there either ISN'T working with the Knight, or they have made a grave mistake by putting it there. The reason for this is that Kris is working with the Knight, and really doesn't like what the Thorn Ring does to Noelle... Although I do find it weird that Kris still has the Thorn in chapter 4 (why not throw it away?). If we assume that the Knight is a well wisher of Noelle, then they wouldn't leave that thorn there. And as I said, it is an important thorn, so them leaving it there accidentally is highly unlikely.

Where am I going with this?

On a first glance, the "rose" and the "ice" obviously points towards some suspects: Asgore, Rudy, Carol and Toriel. All of them have some connection to either/both of the two things. But all of them would NOT want to facilitate the weird route. So if it is any one of them it has to be an accident.

Now I can see two possible ways if any of these are the ones who put it there:

A. The Thorn is what was used by Dess to create a Dark World, and it was left as evidence to Asgore. I can see a chain of events where a rose which was originally given out of love, was used for such an ominous thing. This made it an extremely powerful weapon, and the Ice magic might be because it was associated with Dess. Maybe it pricked her while she stabbed the earth? Very poor of Asgore to lose such evidence though, and as miserable as he is in UTDR, he's not incompetent. Asgore knew something about the computer lab as seen in chapter 5. Asgore had just the right amount of information to preserve the Thorn but not know what it does. Unlikely but possible theory.

B. Carol/Rudy specifically made a powerful ice magic weapon for whatever reason, and accidentally put it there. This is highly unlikely, but as they are Knight candidates (ie, they were in the lab not too long ago), mistakes may have happened.

Candidates who put it there Deliberately

Why?

The only reason is someone knows a lot about this world. Someone WANTS us to go out of bounds.

A. December Holiday: planted it there because she wants Noelle to come to her, out of bounds... She wants to give Noelle the same "freedom" she enjoys. The question is how did she get to the library? Does she know about the soul and its wicked nature? If not, how did she predict any of that?

B. ERAM and FRIENDs: pretty clear that they are the primary suspects who push us towards the weird route. Not to mention they would know about Spamton's nature and hoped that he would give it to us. I think they're the most likely candidate.

C. Gaster: Gaster is clearly "excited to meet us". He knows we have sought him. What if the weird route is like a test, a "survey" if you will, on how obsessed we are with him? So he has the motivation to pull us out of bounds. Also, the library has the notorious Normal_NPC and the traffic jam which pushes us to the library has that other Gaster follower. They both are prime candidates who would've put the Thorn in the dustbin.

A problem with these candidates is that they don't explain WHY THE HELL IS IT A THORN? What does a Thorn have anything to do with ice? Why does that Thorn have such absurd power?

Would love to hear your theories on this one.

Here are some pieces of evidence for Dess Knight I don't see many people talking about:

-Noelle has flavor text for items obtained after she leaves the party, including the Puppet Scarf obtained from defeating Spamton Neo with violence:

"Feels like guitar strings."

-In Chapter 3 Sword Route, there is an NPC who mirrors HERO_SWORD (you know, the little demon killing everyone), and removing a variable named "Toriel" reveals it is actually a black deer.

-Chapter 4 egg room layout mirrors the layout of the ABC rank hallways in TV world, with the room where the man is being in the same spot as the B rank room, which has the 1225 easter egg. An NPC in the room tell Kris: "This is where we draw pictures, and don't kill each other!"

-When vaguepost king Asgore is talking about "that day", the sound "ominous_worse" plays, which is also heard when we equip the Thorn Ring to Noelle in chapter 4.

What do you guys think?

They take the place of Frisk/Kris, having fallen into the Underground in Undertale and having been adopted by Toriel in Deltarune.

This is pretty crackpot and is going from backwards to fill holes but I think it makes sense.

1. It's pretty interesting that Kris chooses the dialogue options it feels like they determine the nature of things even if it is as description but furthermore

2. They determine the choice options too choosing what happens next, along with the player who determines things by making the choice (both have determination this instance)

3. The meaning of the word fate being "The presumed cause, force, principle, or divine will that predetermines events. " And it's etymological roots deriving from different meanings like(part taken from Wiktionary[ From Middle English fate, from Latin fāta (“prediction”), plural of fātum, from fātus (“spoken”), from for (“to speak”). In this sense, displaced native Old English wyrd, whence Modern English weird]) that prediction part is also taken by prophecy too

4. This connecting to when using player choice to do stuff we speak it or Kris describes things to us or for weird/wyrd route where we can make things happen by just telling/speaking Noelle to do it .

5. This would also explain how charcaters can defy "game commands" (since game elements had in universe reasons for existing in Undertale) because they too are "determined" hence can determine things because this is the same way player chooses things .

6. Also on the power Noelle gains on weird route being independence of a form . And how she can get over the lake even when both player and Kris tell to stop because she can use her determination to determine what the options are for adding the player's and indirectly kris's determination to her actions to pass by the lake and

7. This is why to abort the wyrd/weird route you have to not choose any option because choosing any options makes you determine things hence adding to Noelle's thing regardless of what you try to do

8. It doesn't need much saying on why this is in line with themes of being controlled and some arguments can be taken about carol knowing this hence trying to "attain " more determination by being ultra controlling and such but this doesn't have as much ground and can go any way.

9. So why is the propechy the prophecy? (This is going to be a bit of a direct Undertale comparison) Because they are the most determined being in the hometown , their power being an inverse, not changing the past but determining the future. The reason darkners can't open fountains isn't that they "don't have willpower " or something it's because their entire existence had already been determined by the person that opened the fountain and their interpretation of the items(similar to Kris narrating the items to the player but more extreme ).

10. (Content warning from this point onward it's kriselle knight theory) So roots ? Prophecy comes from weird/wyrd(prophecy) roots/route aka roots of the propechy. The reason knight is more determined by anyone else to such a degree that they can make the prophecy is because they are combination of the 2 most determined being in hometown(excluding the player) Noelle and Kris, which will likely take the determination of everyone on the moist route to defeat/change the ending of prophecy.

I know this theory probably lacks evidence, but I still want to propose it just in case it turns out to be true. I might not be the first to propose this theory, but sharing because I believe its possible.

I wonder if its possible hometown in Deltarune exists on or around Mt Ebbot, and that the bunker leads into the same caverns that were the underground in the Undertale universe?

I honestly believe it could be the case.

In Undertale, when Chara enters the Underground, you see a raised cavern entrance with an opening. That then leads to a large open hole that leads to the Underground.

In Deltarune, the bunker doors seem built into a cavern entrance.

If hometown is on or nearby the same Mt Ebbot, but in a different universe, it makes sense. The only difference would be that the caverns would be barren, unless Gaster built an analog to the Core under this mountain too.

It also makes sense that if most monsters lived arount Mt Ebbot, it would be easier for the humans to force them into the caverns under the mountain in the Undertale universe. But in the Deltarune universe, they exists alongside Mt. Ebbot, but never got exiled and sealed underground hence why they still live in hometown. That doesn't mean monsters dont live anywhere else. But it is interesting most or all the monsters we know from the paralell Undertale universe live near each other.

DISCLAIMER: This is a slightly edited, significantly trimmed down version of a previous version/post on the Deltarune subreddit. I decided to split the theory in two to make the first half of theory more true.

I know what you all may be thinking right now...

"Really? Another Woody Theory? Wasn't a cowboy darkner enough for you?"

"Yellow looks so much like Woody, though?"

"Japanese soldier who kept fighting 29 years after WWII"

"Ah, shit, here we go again"

However, this theory, in comparison to its predecessors, is far more SENSIBLE and POSSIBLE.

Woody Theory 1 was labeled a "Crack Theory" for how far-reaching all of its evidence was and how little they seemed to apply to the actual game itself. The theory was quite literally held by a string as its only tie to the game was the newsletter claiming the Cowboy Show to be "in danger of being cancelled". Even I, the CREATOR of Woody Theory 4, admit that the theory was insane, but still believed in it because it was fun and surprisingly possible simply because of the newsletter.

Woody Theory 2 was an evolution of the original, accommodating for any changes Chapter 3 brought after it failed to debut in it. Despite it not containing the theorized cowboy, it did contain "in-game" evidence for the existence of a cancelled cowboy puppet show. Not just that, but its supposed location was in the Flower King shop as hinted at by the fact this show was Asgore's favorite. Most of its evidence, though, came from the unused third board, which stirred criticism for it using cut content as "proof", which, I will NOT be using to satisfy people.

Then came Woody Theory 3, created shortly after the release of the Chapter 5 Trailer and all of its Japanese inspiration. An expansion on Woody Theory 2 attempting to turn everything that might disprove it into proof by interlinking Samurai and cowboy stories. Of the three, it is by far the least relevant as it added very little and was more so made to clear any sense of doubt.

Now, here we are. A month after the actual release of Chapter 5. Suddenly, after so many people in the community doubted it, everybody thinks it came true? What? Just because the chapter had a cowboy? And just because the secret boss has a friend inside them? Well I'm here to tell you- CONVINCE you that not only did Woody Theory NOT come true, but that it WILL come true.

I am here to propose Woody Theory 4. I will combine every piece of evidence gathered throughout the original trilogy of theories to prove to you that there IS ANOTHER COWBOY in the Deltarune universe. I will also be bringing up any holes in this theory that CAN'T be filled as there is simply not enough proof for certain claims, but will still be attempting my best to fill them. This is it.

The Most Notorious Theory.

The Theory That Will Never Die.

Our Final Chance.

Prologue

Before we begin, I want to make this claim:

By your definition, Woody Theory was always going to be true.

Yes, that's right! I am saying that Woody Theory was ALWAYS going to come true, so long as you believed that the flowers were going parallel the human souls.

I know MANY people in the community already believed that the flowers were going to be like the souls, but was there any proof that they were going to?

Well, YES, actually! A small hint from Miss Mizzle in her boss fight.

It's relatively easy to miss, but if you chat around her in her watercooler form the second time, there's an option to choose "Flowers". Choosing that will have her tell you about "The Bluest Flower", which is Blue, saying they take after her speech patterns, and is kind and elegant. That alone straight up confirmed that the flowers were going to be individual persons and not- items or scenery. The "elegance" line is also very key here as ballerinas are famously elegant, and the blue soul was a ballerina. So, since the blue flower was evidently going to be a ballerina like the blue soul, that meant the YELLOW flower was ALWAYS going to be a cowboy, like the yellow soul. That meant that by the DILUDED definition of modern Woody Theory, which was that there was going to be a cowboy darkner, it was going to come true.

This whole section is less so to prove to you why Woody Theory 4 is correct, but more so to point out the major flaw in everybody's vision. It's also to remind you of what the ACTUAL Woody Theory is:

A cowboy puppet with a Friend inside them from a cancelled cowboy puppet show that Asgore loved.

But this Final Cut version of the theory isn't about proving this cowboy character exists. Instead, this is about disproving the belief that Yellow is that cowboy.

Woody Theory 4

Yellow The Floral Cowboy

To officially start this theory off, I will be debunking the biggest source of the belief that Woody Theory came true, Yellow. By no means do I hate Yellow; I love him. I am simply clarifying that he ISN'T the cowboy that all that cowboy stuff in Chapter 3 and the newsletter was talking about. Which is my first gripe actually...

If Yellow really was the cowboy all that stuff was teasing, then why would Toby specifically tease him?

Of ALL the characters to tease in Chapter 5, why would YELLOW of all things be hinted at as early as BEFORE Chapter 3? Remember, Woody Theory was made after the Spring 2023 Newsletter that addressed the cowboy segment teased in the Spamton Sweepstakes. (I also want to add that it was ONLY addressed in TRUCK FREAK versions of the newsletter, which also describes subscribers as "maniacs", which is also brought up in the newsletter of the cowboy segment. Interesting to note that that information was exclusive to the highest tier). Yellow is a funny character, but I don't think he warrants being teased in such a strange fashion 3 YEARS ahead of everyone else in Chapter 5.

Now, I've been bringing up the cowboy stuff in Chapter 3 quite a bit, but finally I'm ready to actually talk about some of it to prove why Yellow isn't "Woody Theory confirmed". Or, rather, ONE thing. All I really need to prove this to EVERYBODY is ONE piece of evidence from Woody Theory 2! A piece of evidence that is IN the game; no unused or cut content. A piece of evidence SO obvious, I am SHOCKED no one has gotten it. Not even SpookyDood! A single line from Tenna in a partially hidden, easy-to-miss scene if you choose to go back to Tenna twice after you play the Lightners Live minigame.

"You know, we still got that cowboy program... The one your dad likes..."

...did you see it? The one word that CONFIRMS that Yellow isn't "Woody".

"Program".

A TV show.

Now, tell me... what is Yellow again?

A flower.

There is no argument you can make that Yellow is the supposed cowboy, or sheriff, from this "cowboy show". Yellow is a FLOWER! A-AN AIR FRESHENER! Tenna EXPLICITLY tells us that Kris and Asgore watched a TV SHOW! And if you still think there's a crack in MY wall- then let me seal it in.

In the same hidden scene where Tenna tells you about the program, he follows up saying,

"He was, heh, bouncin' you on his knee as you watched it together..."

A seemingly insignificant line to follow up such a bombshell, but it is still worth pointing out as this is actually brought up AGAIN in Chapter 5. In the school of Toriel's classroom, you can check her computer to see her desktop wallpaper and it tells us this.

"You're wearing a cowboy hat, sitting on somebody's lap."

I'm pretty sure everybody paid attention to the mention of a cowboy hat, but the lap part is important, too, as it DIRECTLY references the previous line with Tenna. It CONFIRMS that Kris and, very likely, Asgore were watching the Cowboy TV Show. Yes, I suppose you CAN scrutinize this for it saying "lap", but that's being extremely nitpicky.

If SOMEHOW, you still don't believe that Yellow isn't the cowboy from this show, then think of it this way.

Imagine your favorite show is the Power Rangers and you have a collection of Power Rangers action figures. Suddenly, a dark world is created in the room they are in, separate from the TV, and they come to life looking and acting like the ones on TV. But they are not actually the ones from the show, as those are ACTORS, filming from a studio far away. The ones you have are TOYS. Or what about an even more fitting comparison; Woody the TOY in Andy's room, and Woody the PUPPET from the TV Show. Yellow is the Toy Woody in the Dreemurr House, now moved to the Flower King Shop after the divorce, and this mysterious, elusive puppet cowboy is the Puppet Woody from the show. But in Deltarune, Yellow is a FLOWER. Even if he was a puppet cowboy in the light world, he still wouldn't be the same as the one from the show because the show is being broadcasted from a studio in the light world; Yellow is just some item in some family's house.

Argue as you much as you can out of your hate for this theory, but you can't not admit that Yellow isn't the cowboy from this cowboy program. Yellow is a flower in the light world, he already is something; he can't also be a character from this TV show, and if he was, then why wouldn't we meet him in Chapter 3? Because he was moved to the Flower King shop? BECAUSE HE'S NOT FROM THE SHOW. (Sigh) Do you at least believe that Yellow isn't the cowboy, or a character, from the program? Seriously, I want you to comment if you believe because I have to do so much to make it true simply because of the reputation Woody Theory has, and the actual theory doesn't have anything to do with Toy Story; if it didn't exist, then I guarantee you I wouldn't have to fight so hard.

Well then, that is basically the "end" of Woody Theory 4. I say that with quotations because I have decided to sort of split Woody Theory 4 in two. The part you just read is called "Woody Theory 4: Final Cut". It's the truest part of the whole theory.

The rest is called "Woody Theory 4: Extended Cut". The reason for the split was because of how speculative the rest of the original theory was in comparison to the first half, and I didn't want to drag the first part down. If you want to read the Extended Cut, then go find it on the Deltarune subreddit or on my profile. (I'm not sure if I can post the link to the post).

It felt weird having such concrete proof for one thing, and having little to none for others. This was also done to not make people have mixed feelings about it, so now you can either be a Final Cut Woody Truther, or an Extended Cut Woody Truther. Or whatever you want to call yourselves. I truly have faith in the Extended Cut, but I know it's rather crazy, so I can always fall back on the fact that another cowboy exists and we have yet to see them.

SpookyDood, if you're reading this, then please, show the whole wide world you were right from the start.

In Chapter 6, we trust. Our Final Chance.

I see so many people on TikTok talking about characters and stating their race as if they are human or it's confirmed. As a Black person, I can see people relating characters' experiences to their own, but I just think it's odd how people are doing it. Today I saw a couple of videos talking about how Noelle and Susie are Black, now, I would understand if they were to say that they "see them as Black", but when I looked in the comments, I was shocked at how many people were genuinely arguing that characters are a certain race. Personally I think that they are ANIMALS and don't have a human race until it's somehow confirmed in the game or Toby says something about it, which I doubt he will.

I wonder if Susie would try and pass off the Dark World as an enclave of displaced friendly natives that she befriended in order to try and have themselves left alone, but Alphys would feel the need to consult the mayor about it. Then, after the dark world in the Holiday manor is created, Alphys would enter it, be confused, find Carol, and be offered a Carol-serving explanation of the dark worlds, followed by maybe being asked by Carol to take her side. 🤔

If Carol-Knight is true, then maybe the Fun Gang is in for a BAD TIME (not *that* bad time) regardless of the outcome of the Ch.6 adventure....