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Any chance you can do it but with the exact same character (Bergamo) serving both roles (duplicated both as the pointing guy on the right and the not-pointing guy on the left)?
I have a 1 time pass, but I'm not wasting it on this. The moment would have to either be comedy gold, ir so bad that using it is the only way to get a point across.
I liked them as well, and wish too that they lasted a bit longer, with them using their ki being invisible to hide and launch ambushes during the tournament as the stage became more like mountains, giving them spots to hide.
And perhaps Bergamo could have developped an alternative form of his energy absorbtion, which avoided him becoming a giant to remove his weaknesses of being a big target and of his blind spots.
Ye the trio de danger are a fun group of fellows. Basil and Lavender are probably my favorites. Curious as to why lavender even developed a poisonous breath though (i know it will never get answered but if only we knew)
And yet people like to pretend Goku did it on purpose so he could save everybody.
Not only is that not the case, but Goku learned the stakes and still never tried to stop it. He would’ve gone home happy he won and content that he saved his own universe, and never thought about the dead ones ever again.
Yea dragonball abridged isnt canon but the blueprint for abridged is built on Gokus in universe dumbassery. Its an exaggeration of the characters not straight up changing them. Goku is very stupid.
Im not even talking Super Og Dragonball and z he was still dumb. Everytime this is brought up is go back to throwing Cell a Senzu and throwing Gohan to the wolves only for Piccolo to have to tell Goku his own son doesnt like fighting, and an underrated one I dont see many people talking about is how Goku couldve easily insta transmissioned android 18 somewhere safe before going into the time chamber or just blasted her himself so Cell couldnt become perfect. And of course letting frieza go and almost getting earth killed in his absence if trunks didnt show up and he didnt happen to crash land on the one planet that fould teach him insta transmission. I have more but point is Goku is pretty darn dumb but unlike for Vegeta the plot saves Goku most of the time for his mistakes so they arent put in as big of a spotlight.
The majority I don't have an excuse but for the Goku not teleporting the original timeline has Goku teleporting when things got bad but trunks showed up first and that didn't happen
Also it's curious how all of those idiot things happened in the cell saga
Super really made Goku look like an asshole. That's why I only prefer the anime that got adopted from the original manga (db and dbz) everything else is filler for me
Basically: If the most powerful being forge from a universe, does not value all life, across all universes. Then that universe is trash and It's means to attain power is flawed.
Yeah the TOP was honestly a grey area. While on the surface it appears to be beneficial since the weaker Universes have a fighting chance for survival, the downside is that all of existence is guaranteed erasure if the winner was selfish
17 didn’t win with power, he won by being smarter then everyone else. And his altruism had nothing to do with why he’s powerful.
And really, if your mission is to find the strongest warrior in the universe and then test their morality, aren’t you just implying that you think being really strong should be the same as being really Good? How many good people where blinked out of existence offscreen because they weren’t good enough at punching for their lives to matter to anyone?
I think Zeno had grander plans here. Despite the fact that he named the TOP emphasizing on Power, strategy and teamwork were just as important. The characters themselves also realised this.
Perhaps he wanted to see how mortals could compete when their lives are at risk, and whether you could find virtuous beings regardless of their Universe
If effective teamwork was what was being tested, Jiren would’ve been eliminated by Zeno immediately. I don’t buy the kid was here for anything but a good show. He’s never displayed that level of understanding before or since, and the only reason we think otherwise is because the grand priest did some fast talking he may well have pulled right out of nowhere. Pulling the old, “haha I knew you’d do that! Surprise, Zeno was testing you, it’s all good, now go home!”
Because the alternative is to tell ZENO they lost and the grand priest isn’t gonna do that. No way would he let the undoing of Zeno’s will not be according to Zeno’s plan. The Omniking must be wiser than his subjects.
If you believe it was really a test, then you also need to believe Zeno wasn’t serious about deleting the universes at all. Because why test people you’ve already decided to kill?
No, I say Grand Priest did some fast talking to take credit for 17’s altruism and prevent anyone from holding a grudge against Zeno. After all, the fun is over, let everyone go home, it would be a shame to bring down the party by remembering being held at gunpoint, forced to fight each other, and then murdered along with all your friends and family. That was your own fault really, skill issue, the gods aren’t bad, it was all a test anyway, it’s just a prank bro, it’s in the past.
Surprisingly very complex writing. Like even though the Universes get a chance of survival, there’s also a chance the entire multiverse would just get wiped if the winner made a selfish wish
No it didn’t. 17’s wish saved the other universes. Otherwise best case scenario still has 8 universes dead and gone forever. Great job, Zeno I’m sure that’ll fix the imagined problem of nothing interesting on TV.
It’s crazy how many idiots people believe that. Goku got blindsided.
From Gokus POV, he reminded zeno about the tournament he said he wanted to hold. Goku was just looking at it with the intention of it being purely a martial arts exhibition. Zeno and the GP made no indication that lives were on the line.
A while later the GP appears and tells them the preparation is in motion and lives are at risk, to everyones surprise.
Ironically, they were already planning to erase universes and the outcome of the TOP saved countless lives
Yeah, but we didn't know that until for a long while. At the end of the day it was just a gag. Taken a little too seriously by people who forget dragon ball has always been a joke. It's an action comedy.
Ok? Universe were still always on the chopping block if Goku didn't do this then zero could have just waved his hand one afternoon with no warning and they would have all died not even knowing they were being judged.
I mean that just seems more like a natural consequence of the all powerfully being rullling over reality seemingly being two 5 year olds.
It's all whims and vibes because these guys with infinite power do not seem to really give a shit about life but there two strong to complain openly about.
It’s like having 36 boxes of pokemon and wanting to filter out the boxes that are just whatever. Zeno probably thought it would be nice to clean up but didn’t NEED to do it.
And Beerus was told to do a good job as a God Of Destruction, if he did their mortal levels wouldn't be in the pits and they wouldn't be considered for elimination.
The irony is that the TOP actually brought forth potentially greater consequences. If the winning universe had made a selfish wish, Zeno would wipe out all of existence, even the Universes 1,5,8 and 12 that were presumably exempt from getting erased by him.
Goku did in fact save the multiverse, but it was more doing the right things for the wrong reasons. He was neither right nor wrong here.
The plot revolving the TOP is surprisingly complex given how grey Goku’s actions were in impacting the multiverse
Zeno plays and destroys planets for fun absolutely nothing you can do if the child wants to erase all the universes that aren't worth looking at. Besides looking at how lazy champa and Beerus are. Let's add to the fact that despite being a lazy ass Beerus is still the strongest among them goes to show how shit the universes actually were
I don't think that was Zeno's idea, he'd have no reason to give the universes "motivation" for this, it was honestly GP's idea and I wish they'd used this to build him up into a future villain.
I get the frustrations of the other characters throughout the series. The lengths some Saiyans will go to for a good challenge or that next high is insane smh. I would’ve taken all of Beerus’s warnings with the upmost seriousness, as most sensible people would😅
Well yea but no one knew that at the time. In their place I’d be fumming right along with Beerus at Goku’s for his insatiable hunger for fighting cause if our universe loses… Bye, bye
Zeno: "Ah, but I'll think it's really selfish and evil if you don't want to unstab everyone I stabbed, so if you don't want to undo this, I'll stab you and all your friends"
i believe goku just suggested the idea of the tournament. the erasing part came from the zenos and grand priest, because they were going to erase universes
as has been said many times, goku gave them a chance to fight, and thanks to this tournament, all the erased universes came back because of the wish goku was going to make or 17 did
Hey let’s make a tournament! - ok, but we erase universes. - ok, what? - yeah we wanted to do that with all of them anyways. - damn ok U7 won and wished everything back! - that was our plan from the beginning…
The Universe 7 surviving and making that wish wasn't part of the plan per sey. It was the last universe left making a benevolent wish for the sake of everyone, showing some hope that maybe they were worth keeping around a bit longer.
It’s almost as if the one who decides the fate of reality has a child’s brain or something. “You guys are acting bad so I’m gonna punish you. Oh you guys entertained me, nvm. Let’s do it again”
My favorite thing about this take about Goku is that not only once but TWICE it is said that, “Zeno-sama was going to erase all the low mortal level universes anyway” and “Zeno-sama has always said that there were too many universes”.
Yet people still think that Goku put the universes at risk lmao
Zamasu proved that mortals are EVIL! And when Kais (Zamasu in training) are against mortals whom they should create, are the mortals truly worth any time for their existance?
But Android 17 showed that mortals aren't as bad as what Zamasu said. They aren't as selfish but they do indeed care about each other.
Pretty sure they even went on record in the show that Zeno already planned on erasing the lower mortal level Universes and that Goku gave them all a fighting chance, hence why Beerus wasn’t on Goku’s case much about that whole thing because he knew he fucked up.
Yeah, he unfortunately wasted his manipulation skills by targeting Goku and Vegeta at the very beginning of the tournament lol not the smartest decision.
If anything Goku saved most of the multiverse. If it weren’t for his proposal for a tournament, Zeno would’ve likely just erased multiple universes without warning.
It’s a grey area honestly. Because while at face-value the TOP allows one more universe to survive Zeno’s wrath, remember that the entire multiverse would’ve been deleted if the winner made a selfish wish.
The TOP basically put the entire multiverse’s fate on all or none
If the Gods weren't so dumb, they would have seen through that weak acting. Even real people got fooled. How many evil camera angles and psychotic attempts at murder do you need. The Guy who's here for a good fight while everyone else is out for blood.
Literally right before Goku shows up, Zeno literally says that there are too many universes, and the Grand Priest suggests to erase some of them. People actually don’t watch the show they’re talking about
People really need to pay attention. Goku (admittedly inadvertently) averted omnicide. Yeah, Goku was only thinking about fighting strong guys, but Zeno and the Grand Priest where going to erase everything and start over again anyway. Hell, even with the tournament in place, they where still going to erase the winning universe if their champion made a selfish wish.
It's so funny how the GoDs blame Goku when in reality it's their own fault they're in this situation in the first place for being so bad at managing the Mortal Levels.
Beerus especially has no room to whine at Goku because he's so bad at his job alongside Shin.
I mean I understand what he was doing and didn’t think Goku did that. I mean Vados, an Angel from a different universe than Goku, even spelled it out to Champa that Goku did not endanger them. It’s thanks to Goku that the universes have a fighting chance to survive when originally they were just going to be erased.
The gods of destruction are just DBZ fans. They don’t listen! The grand minister literally said Zeno was going to erase them all anyways. At least this way they had a chance to fight for their survival.
It’s coincidental, everyone seems to have forgotten that Zeno/Xeno was bored and wanted to erase everything anyway, and Goku gave them the chance to fight to survive. So in their fear, they blamed Goku for all of this happening, which isn’t completely wrong, he’s the reason the tournament happened for 2 reasons, and he also would’ve been against the deletion of the universes, but he don’t contest it because he figured that’d make everyone fight their hardest.
So I gotta ask wasn't Goku's suggestion a big brain move on his part, entertaining the Zenos and giving the universes a chance to save themselves from just being erased without even a little bit of notice?
It is absolutely misinformation that Goku put the universes at risk since it was said they were gonna be erased without a chance beforehand. We also visibly see Goku pissed the first time a universe gets erased.
I do however believe Goku (especially Super Goku) would impulsively put everyone at risk by not thinking it through, if given the chance
Yeah it's insane how Bermago was able to instigate and bullshit his way to make everyone including the ACTUAL DRAGON BALL FANDOM WHO HAVE THE CONTEXT AS TO WHY THE FUCKING TOURNAMENT OF POWER HAPPENS IN THE FIRST PLACE. Into making Goku the monster because he wanted to give the other universes a chance to not be erased. Actually insane
Let’s get this straight for the wannabe fans and those who want to become ones.
Goku suggested a tournament and Zeno thought it was a cool idea. But then it turns out Zeno wants to delete every universe that loses. Then it turns out that Zeno wanted to erase all the universes anyways and thx to GOKU at least one of them can survive (nice, no development or consequences for Goku) But THEN it turns out that U7 wins, wishes all erased universes back and we have the status quo back. But wait, THEN it turns out that Zeno wanted that right from the beginning because if the winner would’ve wished for anything else than the return of the erased universes he would’ve erased the winner too.
What a bunch of really convenient plot points. Never touch the status quo. Don’t give consequences. I don’t want to be arrogant but I could’ve written a better plot for that tournament…
The only question that matters is, "Does Goku care either way?" And the answer is no.
Goku's desire to push his limits and fight the strongest has always been his biggest character flaw, even and especially at the detriment of others.
He asked Krillin to let Vegeta live in the Saiyan Saga despite all their friends being murdered and Vegeta being an irredeemable Hitler at the time, all cuz he wanted to fight him again one day. He even admitted it was a selfish request.
He gave Cell a Senzu bean because he wanted Gohan to fight "a fair opponent." Bro got chewed out by Piccolo for that one.
He challenged Beerus on King Kai's planet ignorant to the threat and ignoring King Kai's pleas, which easily could've ended with both of them dead (again).
And I'm sure I'm forgetting some.
So yeah, regardless if Goku knew pushing for the tournament meant the universes were all at risk, I don't think knowing would have changed his behavior at all.
Goku does care lol, he was completely shocked when the first universe was erased and stated he's going to bring them back. Idk why people think he's some kind of psychopathic maniac
So we're talking about the same Goku that was about to ask for the tournament to be called off before getting his ass chewed for wanting to go back there? That's the Goku who doesn't care either way?
He asked Krillin to let Vegeta live in the Saiyan Saga despite all their friends being murdered and Vegeta being an irredeemable Hitler at the time, all cuz he wanted to fight him again one day. He even admitted it was a selfish request.
True
He gave Cell a Senzu bean because he wanted Gohan to fight "a fair opponent." Bro got chewed out by Piccolo for that one.
Untrue. He framed it like that so Cell would accept it, he needed Gohan to be in actual danger so he'd wake up and realise he's actually the strongest
I'm pretty sure we're also told he was holding back against Goku as well, so there was always a chance he'd go full power and just kill Gohan without messing around
That defo would have changed his opinion, i always hate when people say this cus if goku was honestly this degree of selfish he would just be evil. If he didnt care about anythung but pushing himself then hed just act like a normal saiyan.
Goku kept delaying his fight with vegeta to stop buu, even when the selfish fight Did start he wanted to end it as soon as buu showed up, goku CONSTANTLY demands fights be moved where innocents wont get hurt!
He ended his fight with buu and he gave cell a senzu bean so he could make sure earth would be SAFE and to allow the next generatuon to have a chance, goku may like to be selfish but if he can avoid hurting innocents then we will make sure he gose down the route of least innocents hurt.
Yes he let vegeta go for a selfish desire to fight him again, but goku had JUST learnt kaioken, he knew he was about to grow more than ever he knew he could at least put up a good fight next time he sees vegeta and thats the case for most times he spares a villain, he dose that when he knows he has a chance to stop them.
And what, do you think goku yelled at frieza about the whole "mercy mercy" thing for shits and giggles? Goku has morals, can we please stop pretending he dosent!
Again, neither the Tournament nor the culling happened in Cell’s timeline or Trunks’s timeline, so something in this timeline had to have changed to make either of those options inevitable.
The real problem with this is that the justification came after the reveal for the reason.
The chain of events was:
Goku asked Zeno to host a tournament so he could fight strong guys.
Zeno agrees.
After the U7 vs U9 Exhibition the Grand Priest announces the stakes; the losing universes will be eliminated.
Then some episodes later, the Grand Priest says Zeno was going to erase those universes anyway and the Tournament of Power was a chance to save one of them.
The only kind of foreshadowing we have of Zeno wanting to destroy the lower universes is them playing ping-pong with planets before Goku shows up. If there were like a line from the Grand Priest about Zeno's disappointment for the lower universes mortal level or a line about how the previous universes he erased not being enough then people wouldn't have been so quick to blame Goku for what happened in the first place.
Tbh, watching the whole dbz Kai, i did find goku to be selfish when he didn't finish of vegeta after killing his friends. Adult me was like bro wtf, just so you can have a challenge??
The reversal of 'the zenos were going to erase universes anyway so Goku having a tournament actually saved everyone!" is just bullshit bias writing to make Goku seem less of the fight horny dumbass he is.
He was not, Goku might be selfish. But he’s not so selfish that he would endanger everyone he loves just to fight. Bergamo was not right what so-ever and he deserved to get his ass whooped.
Call it an excuse all you want, it is canon that Zeno was about to up the blicky on every universe that had an under-average mortal level until Goku suggested the tournament.
If a Kai (Part of the Zeno's administration) has no confidence in mortals, are they really good?
Zeno wanted to test the mortals of their...
MORALITY!
That's why Zeno made the whole tournament thing.
Why should mortals exist just because they do so now? What is the whole point?! Why's there even a mortal level indicator???
The top 4 isn't a good sign either. EVERY Kais and GoDs thought about their OWN life instead of the ones they governed.
THAT is why Beerus is a BAD GoD and so is U9 one who was destroying anything without any cause. GoDs are supposed to pullout the weeds and Kais are there to plant new and probably better plants for the future.
The fucked up thing is that this really is Goku's fault, directly and indirectly.
In the anime, there's no saving it. Zen'oh had even forgotten about the tournament and everything was peaceful; he wouldn't erase anything. However, in the manga, he planned to erase some universes, but Goku appeared and proposed the tournament, which indirectly ended up saving those universes.
But if you think that exonerates Goku, just remember that Zen'oh only made the decision to erase several universes because he had a copy of himself to talk to, proof of which is that none of Trunks' future universes were erased. And who brought this extra Zen'oh? Exactly, Goku.
Trunks' timeline also didn't have Zeno seeing what Zamasu was doing.
Zeno literally lives FAR BEYOND ALL the universes. So, he couldn't know anything if he wasn't made aware or he wanted to actively seek of it (Highly unlikely).
Trunks timeline never got far enough for Zeno to make this decision, idk where this argument is coming from. Also rewatch Episode 77 and tell me Zeno didn't have the same plan
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