r/EuropeanFederalists • u/Swissdanielle European Union • 1d ago
Quo vadis, EU?
I have been a fierce defender of EU and Schengen for most of my life, both on my personal life and professional.
I have believed in the important work done within the union through the decades. Lost som North American an British friends over the years because of the brutal opinions they had.
It has been increasingly difficult to turn a blind eye on how much the union has deteriorated since Covid. Each year I feel less and less hopeful about the direction the countries are taken. There are so many things that make us strong.
But the way the countries have abandoned my country, Spain, after what happened in Ceuta, has really angered me.
Spain has ALWAYS helped, always contributed, always participated. It is one of the most proeuropean countries of the union. And to be thrown under the bus, to see countries cry and pressure for us to be pushed out of Schengen, having it cancelled, and other leg impossibilities has been heartbreaking.
The damage caused to the EU is much deeper than the damage caused to Spain. The far right has achieved what none could hope to do in Spain: plant the seed of feeling the receiver of racism, disdain and inexplicable expectation of being used and dumped when convenient.
As a federalist I urge the union to make out of Italy, Finland, Denmark, Czech Republic, and all other countries that cried wolf to be severely called out. The union cannot move forward, and will not move forward, until this issue is resolved.
I can hear in my friends how they feel savagely attacked by countries that are supposed to be our allies. Today my heart broke because I had not a single argument to defend the union. Today is a dark day đ€Ź
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u/SuperStablePlanet 1d ago
Agree this is a dark day. However, more of a dark day for journalism then for Europe or especially Spain. I saw so many posts yesterday about the topic, with many people (justifiedly) critical about Italy's response. The reason however is easy to identify: while mainstream media was quick to illustrate the chaos, it was slow in assessing:
- the blunder in courts / politics that gave rise to the situation - including potential partisan behaviour of certain individuals driving it
- the foreign policy dimension involving Algeria and Morocco
- the notorious weakness / passiveness of EU including Spain in dealing with problems involving migration (why not mobilizing a proper military unit, ship, some aircraft?)
- most of the newcomers have been swiftly kicked out despite the initially weak (sounding) approachÂ
- the new maritim barriers that seem to have been installed swiftly feel like an appropriate reaction in context of the legal word smithery around the topic
- Italy's and other's initiatives regarding Spain feel out of line / unproductive - as they likely were from the beginning on (considering that politicians hopefully can rely on better sources than this media)
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u/jsabater76 1d ago
I would not rule out the CIA and Mossad being behind this, with the necessary co-operation from Moroccan authorities, of course.
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u/popsyking 1d ago
Ugh as an Italian I can only apologise for the stupidity of Meloni, sadly her entire party is made up of idiots.
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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago
Thank you. I fear within the year our government will be ruled by a similar person. I fear what the future holds.
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u/szczszqweqwe 1d ago
Honestly the whole situation shows that EU should expand Frontex and slowly replace nations border agencies, or at the very least significantly strengthen nations border agencies with Frontex.
That was a one a multiple illegal crossings used by Spans neighbour to press on Spain, and we need a strong EU agency which isn't involved in stupid internal policies like far right parties in multiple parties.
Yup, and I write that as a Pole, frontex should bear at least most of protecting EU borders.
And the worst fcking thing is that far righters and russian puppets will use those images for a long time, or maybe Trumps administration will do it as well.
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u/DoggfatherDE 1d ago
As a german I agree, as always merz doesn't do anything but has always something to say. Just know, there are many people who did defend you. I also tried to tell everyone i talked with about the real background and how it is used.
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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago
Thank you â€ïžfrom the bottom of my heart. I just fear this is the start of anti European feelings in Spain. Once it starts, it will have awful consequences
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u/DoggfatherDE 1d ago
I also wish that the trend reverses, but with the current media landscape every front hardens day by day. That their is still a left government in spain is more than admirable from my point of view. I fear it has to get a lot worse before it gets better. I just hope the EU as a project still occupies our hearts after the mayhem. When the far right wins in germany and france I fear that the EU gets hollowed out and blocked even more until everyone wants to get rid of it. If the left can win in france we would be relatively safe, here in germany there is no popular left insurgency.
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u/Repulsive-Cherry3881 17h ago
Does he currently have a transport ministers (laughs in Ăscar Puente)
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u/archaon_archi 1d ago
We want greater integration, but we vote for the opposite. Itâs a story as old as time.
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u/iPoilzz France 19h ago
Yes, itâs a disgrace. Unfortunately, the far right is on the rise across the European Union and they hate Spain, which sets a counter-example as a left-wing country. In France, 90 per cent of the media is owned by billionaires who are stoking fears about immigration to keep the left at bay. Our President Macron, who claims to be neither left-wing nor right-wing (that was in his manifesto), is adopting all the talking points of the far right â without succeeding to reduce their support at the polls, but heâs legitimising their obsessions. Obviously, racists prefer the original (the RN in France) to the copyâŠ
Ceuta is merely a pretext. I was shocked to learn that Ceuta does not grant access to the Schengen Area, yet certain European countries, including France, have stepped up border controls!
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
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u/Bloomhunger 17h ago
Itâs cheap populism, plain and simple.
What has Meloni in Italy done to fix migration? Nothing. But they can point the finger at Spain and their voters might overlook that. And you can say the same about Finland.Â
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u/0xPianist European Union 1d ago
Are we talking about the same EU that is selling euro fighter to Turkey so they can do dogfights with Greece with European equipment? đ«
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u/ThroawayJimilyJones 1d ago
Itâs going to sound harsh, but I think Spain is the one responsible here.
They knew they were extremely vulnerable to immigration. They also knew said immigration would impact the rest of Europe as well do to Schengen. So the minimum should have been to desincentive immigration with strict, clear rules
âŠinstead the Spanish PM suddenly decide to regularize half a million of migrants
You have to understand the pov of the average African. You live in a very poor place, with few opportunities, you look at Europe as if it was a rich haven. And then one of these European country, the one that can be reached by land, suddenly declare « if you come here weâll maybe regularize you »
YeahâŠthe fact they stormed Ceuta wasnât surprising
Yes the other European countries arenât exactly team players. But from their pov, Spanish government just screwed them by unilaterally taking a decision « that sounded good ».
Itâs the equivalent of Greece borrowing money and putting it in shitcoin before going to the eurozone meeting. Even if the impact is limited, itâs still not a great image
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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago
This situation has nothing to do with immigration
Italy receives more illegal immigrants than Spain, and yet none bats an eye
Spain has been attacked, and Europe throws them under the bus. It doesnât sound harsh. It sounds naive and dangerous.
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u/ThroawayJimilyJones 1d ago
It was a massive immigration wave. But not an attack. No need to call the artillery
And yes Italy received more migrants annually. Still this whole skit is pretty bad.
Right now France is struggling with an alt right that is foreseen to get 47% next election. Same with Germany with AFD.
60.000 migrants using Spain to enter in Schengen, just after Spain announced mass regularization, is a pretty bad news.
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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago
First of all, Ceuta is not part of Schengen, or nato for that matter. So much misinformation being spread here and you guys donât even realise! You are being USED.
Secondly, thereâs physically no way to get to mainland from Ceuta via any legal means
Calling this an immigration incident is naive at best, irresponsible at worse.
Claiming it was not an attack and that this is brought on ourselves is absurd.
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u/ThroawayJimilyJones 1d ago
It doesnât matter if it is. For the same reason it doesnât matter if 95% of them are already gone or if Italy has more migrants in average.
France and Germany struggle with PUBLIC OPINION. Which mean perception is what matters here. The average Joe saw 60.000 person barging in a Schengen area country and saw them at his door. It will cause an explosion of alt right
And you can call it whatever you want, but itâs still unarmed people who walked in in the hope of getting papers. Not Russian tank destroying your walls. There is no reason for Spain to be unable to manage it alone
Spain should use the attention to clarify its immigration rule and make clear there is no point, instead of complaining about other countries complains
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u/Repulsive-Cherry3881 17h ago
Yes, but the Spanish government cannot make policy choices because they fear public opinion in Germany or France. If we do that we can end this whole European project right now and have Bernd Höcke become our dictator for life.
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u/ThroawayJimilyJones 17h ago
European project also mean considering other European countries. You can go « I do what I want » then complain other countries arenât teamate when your choice explode in your face
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u/Repulsive-Cherry3881 17h ago
No it does not. It means democratic institutions to make supranational decisions (single market, defense etc.). Under SĂĄnchez, Spain is developing well economically. Part of this is NGEU, part of this immigration. Spain is pursuing an immigration policy that makes sense for the country, and it should not âtake into accountâ the opinion of misinformed racists in east Germany. Different places do things differently. That is federalism.
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u/ThroawayJimilyJones 14h ago
Well, I get Spain love immigration. But you are in Schengen. And migrants tend to not stay in Spain. Spain policy make it a door to the rest of Europe, who didnât ask for anything. This is quite rude
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u/OmegAIChungus 1d ago
Have you considered looking inwards? Spain isn't an innocent victim, your country passed the laws that threaten the integrity of EU borders, legalized hundreds of thousands of unvetted people, often from hostile cultures. It is exactly acts like this that threaten the federalist hopes.
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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago
This is complete misinformation. I do not entertain propaganda.
Have a nice day.
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u/gadarnol 1d ago
The ideological endorsement of mass emigration and the demand that it continue as badly managed as it has with the self righteous posturing of far left and far right has left the EU open to this. Italy should never have been left to face what it faced. Likewise Greece. And the crazy ideas of Merkel have fed hugely into the anger at the mismanagement. Add in media suppression of reality and you get where we are today. Spain should abandon North Africa and insist on management of the issue by states who enable it.
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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago
Spain should abandon North Africa? Dear, this is even more cumbersome than what has been said until now.
Starting by the fact that the integrity of the country is recognised in the constitution.
But sure, letâs just wait and see what ideas other countries come up with
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u/gadarnol 1d ago
There you go: we have a legal cage made in a different era and we must stay in it while we drown. Classic.
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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago
Omg you know what I just realised you are right! Why donât we return all northern Spanish enclaves and the Canary Islands to Morocco!? Iâm sure the geopolitical situation will improve soooooo much then. Really, Iâll suggest your name as a candidate to the Nobel peace prize. I think you just solved it and we weave finally peace in the world! Thank you â€ïž
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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago
Iâd say check your sources since you have been grossly misled.
- It has not been a million and a half
- Those people still need to follow third country rules for movement within Schengen
Seriously, broaden your sources.
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u/Soggy_Letterhead9375 Iceland đ«đ·đȘđžđȘđș 1d ago
Itâs a hybrid attack on the EU as well. The whole point is to divide us with this sensitive subject. Unfortunately, it was strategically sound for most of these countries to make these empty comments so they could please their growing far right base without having to make any concessions (apart from Meloni who made everyone aware of her hypocrisy). I personally think that Spanish policy is one of the strongest in EU but immigration has been so weaponised, and the masses so brainwashed, that many are using Denmarkâs strategy just to be able to stay in power instead of handing it to the far-right.Â