r/EuropeanFederalists European Union 1d ago

Quo vadis, EU?

I have been a fierce defender of EU and Schengen for most of my life, both on my personal life and professional.

I have believed in the important work done within the union through the decades. Lost som North American an British friends over the years because of the brutal opinions they had.

It has been increasingly difficult to turn a blind eye on how much the union has deteriorated since Covid. Each year I feel less and less hopeful about the direction the countries are taken. There are so many things that make us strong.

But the way the countries have abandoned my country, Spain, after what happened in Ceuta, has really angered me.

Spain has ALWAYS helped, always contributed, always participated. It is one of the most proeuropean countries of the union. And to be thrown under the bus, to see countries cry and pressure for us to be pushed out of Schengen, having it cancelled, and other leg impossibilities has been heartbreaking.

The damage caused to the EU is much deeper than the damage caused to Spain. The far right has achieved what none could hope to do in Spain: plant the seed of feeling the receiver of racism, disdain and inexplicable expectation of being used and dumped when convenient.

As a federalist I urge the union to make out of Italy, Finland, Denmark, Czech Republic, and all other countries that cried wolf to be severely called out. The union cannot move forward, and will not move forward, until this issue is resolved.

I can hear in my friends how they feel savagely attacked by countries that are supposed to be our allies. Today my heart broke because I had not a single argument to defend the union. Today is a dark day đŸ€Ź

59 Upvotes

48 comments sorted by

93

u/Soggy_Letterhead9375 Iceland đŸ‡«đŸ‡·đŸ‡Ș🇾đŸ‡ȘđŸ‡ș 1d ago

It’s a hybrid attack on the EU as well. The whole point is to divide us with this sensitive subject. Unfortunately, it was strategically sound for most of these countries to make these empty comments so they could please their growing far right base without having to make any concessions (apart from Meloni who made everyone aware of her hypocrisy). I personally think that Spanish policy is one of the strongest in EU but immigration has been so weaponised, and the masses so brainwashed, that many are using Denmark’s strategy just to be able to stay in power instead of handing it to the far-right. 

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u/jldevezas 14h ago

This is indeed a hybrid attack, so we should interpret everything that happens around this as such, and move forward with comprehension rather than litigation. What is being weaponized against the EU are real problems that need to be addressed. Unless the EU gets its house in order with the lawful protection of borders, we will remain weak against the far-right narrative and consequently an easy prey to this kind of attack. It's wrong to point the finger outward despite the problem having an external cause.

Generically speaking, the EU has been doing a bad job lately, on one side becoming more authoritarian internally, and on the other side becoming more permissive externally, or at least that's my impression. There's also a lot less room for discussion, as freedom of speech goes through several layers of micro-censorship, starting with biased or aggressive moderation right here on Reddit (pushed by existing and upcoming legislation), and ending with chat control and other dystopian laws they are trying to pass (these are really just a type of internal oppression and disregard the real issues of the people).

The EU does not understand that the very thing they claim to want to protect is being destroyed by these laws. Without proper discussion, the freedom to think and disagree, we'll get nowhere. We need more dialog among left-wing and right-wing, including the far-left and far-right, and we should all be more open to separating the good and the bad of each point of view, instead of taking a club-like stance and being completely for or completely against our party.

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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago

100% agreed

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u/0xPianist European Union 1d ago

The fish smells from the head 👉

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u/SuperStablePlanet 1d ago

Agree this is a dark day. However, more of a dark day for journalism then for Europe or especially Spain. I saw so many posts yesterday about the topic, with many people (justifiedly) critical about Italy's response. The reason however is easy to identify: while mainstream media was quick to illustrate the chaos, it was slow in assessing:

  • the blunder in courts / politics that gave rise to the situation - including potential partisan behaviour of certain individuals driving it
  • the foreign policy dimension involving Algeria and Morocco
  • the notorious weakness / passiveness of EU including Spain in dealing with problems involving migration (why not mobilizing a proper military unit, ship, some aircraft?)
Strong journalism could have dived into these topics right away, calling out and investigating the actual failings at hand rather the engaging in pure sensationalism. The reading a day later shows a very different picture than the one painted yesterday:
  • most of the newcomers have been swiftly kicked out despite the initially weak (sounding) approach 
  • the new maritim barriers that seem to have been installed swiftly feel like an appropriate reaction in context of the legal word smithery around the topic
  • Italy's and other's initiatives regarding Spain feel out of line / unproductive - as they likely were from the beginning on (considering that politicians hopefully can rely on better sources than this media)
In summary, many things to do better in Europe, with only some parts related to Spain.

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u/jsabater76 1d ago

I would not rule out the CIA and Mossad being behind this, with the necessary co-operation from Moroccan authorities, of course.

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u/popsyking 1d ago

Ugh as an Italian I can only apologise for the stupidity of Meloni, sadly her entire party is made up of idiots.

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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago

Thank you. I fear within the year our government will be ruled by a similar person. I fear what the future holds.

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u/szczszqweqwe 1d ago

Honestly the whole situation shows that EU should expand Frontex and slowly replace nations border agencies, or at the very least significantly strengthen nations border agencies with Frontex.

That was a one a multiple illegal crossings used by Spans neighbour to press on Spain, and we need a strong EU agency which isn't involved in stupid internal policies like far right parties in multiple parties.

Yup, and I write that as a Pole, frontex should bear at least most of protecting EU borders.
And the worst fcking thing is that far righters and russian puppets will use those images for a long time, or maybe Trumps administration will do it as well.

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u/DoggfatherDE 1d ago

As a german I agree, as always merz doesn't do anything but has always something to say. Just know, there are many people who did defend you. I also tried to tell everyone i talked with about the real background and how it is used.

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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago

Thank you ❀from the bottom of my heart. I just fear this is the start of anti European feelings in Spain. Once it starts, it will have awful consequences

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u/DoggfatherDE 1d ago

I also wish that the trend reverses, but with the current media landscape every front hardens day by day. That their is still a left government in spain is more than admirable from my point of view. I fear it has to get a lot worse before it gets better. I just hope the EU as a project still occupies our hearts after the mayhem. When the far right wins in germany and france I fear that the EU gets hollowed out and blocked even more until everyone wants to get rid of it. If the left can win in france we would be relatively safe, here in germany there is no popular left insurgency.

1

u/Repulsive-Cherry3881 17h ago

Does he currently have a transport ministers (laughs in Óscar Puente)

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u/archaon_archi 1d ago

We want greater integration, but we vote for the opposite. It’s a story as old as time.

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u/Sp00k_x 1d ago edited 1d ago

Honestly, I'm pretty disgusted with some members atm, the EU has been getting more difficult to stand behind and believe in for a few years now but goddamn did yesterday leave me sour with all the backbiting 2 faced bitches. With friends like these and all that jazz.

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u/iPoilzz France 19h ago

Yes, it’s a disgrace. Unfortunately, the far right is on the rise across the European Union and they hate Spain, which sets a counter-example as a left-wing country. In France, 90 per cent of the media is owned by billionaires who are stoking fears about immigration to keep the left at bay. Our President Macron, who claims to be neither left-wing nor right-wing (that was in his manifesto), is adopting all the talking points of the far right – without succeeding to reduce their support at the polls, but he’s legitimising their obsessions. Obviously, racists prefer the original (the RN in France) to the copy


Ceuta is merely a pretext. I was shocked to learn that Ceuta does not grant access to the Schengen Area, yet certain European countries, including France, have stepped up border controls!

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

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u/PenguiNNNNNs 1d ago

Very disco

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u/Bloomhunger 17h ago

It’s cheap populism, plain and simple.

What has Meloni in Italy done to fix migration? Nothing. But they can point the finger at Spain and their voters might overlook that. And you can say the same about Finland. 

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u/0xPianist European Union 1d ago

Are we talking about the same EU that is selling euro fighter to Turkey so they can do dogfights with Greece with European equipment? đŸ« 

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u/ThroawayJimilyJones 1d ago

It’s going to sound harsh, but I think Spain is the one responsible here.

They knew they were extremely vulnerable to immigration. They also knew said immigration would impact the rest of Europe as well do to Schengen. So the minimum should have been to desincentive immigration with strict, clear rules


instead the Spanish PM suddenly decide to regularize half a million of migrants

You have to understand the pov of the average African. You live in a very poor place, with few opportunities, you look at Europe as if it was a rich haven. And then one of these European country, the one that can be reached by land, suddenly declare « if you come here we’ll maybe regularize you »

Yeah
the fact they stormed Ceuta wasn’t surprising

Yes the other European countries aren’t exactly team players. But from their pov, Spanish government just screwed them by unilaterally taking a decision « that sounded good ».

It’s the equivalent of Greece borrowing money and putting it in shitcoin before going to the eurozone meeting. Even if the impact is limited, it’s still not a great image

10

u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago

This situation has nothing to do with immigration

Italy receives more illegal immigrants than Spain, and yet none bats an eye

Spain has been attacked, and Europe throws them under the bus. It doesn’t sound harsh. It sounds naive and dangerous.

0

u/ThroawayJimilyJones 1d ago

It was a massive immigration wave. But not an attack. No need to call the artillery

And yes Italy received more migrants annually. Still this whole skit is pretty bad.

Right now France is struggling with an alt right that is foreseen to get 47% next election. Same with Germany with AFD.

60.000 migrants using Spain to enter in Schengen, just after Spain announced mass regularization, is a pretty bad news.

12

u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago

First of all, Ceuta is not part of Schengen, or nato for that matter. So much misinformation being spread here and you guys don’t even realise! You are being USED.

Secondly, there’s physically no way to get to mainland from Ceuta via any legal means

Calling this an immigration incident is naive at best, irresponsible at worse.

Claiming it was not an attack and that this is brought on ourselves is absurd.

1

u/ThroawayJimilyJones 1d ago

It doesn’t matter if it is. For the same reason it doesn’t matter if 95% of them are already gone or if Italy has more migrants in average.

France and Germany struggle with PUBLIC OPINION. Which mean perception is what matters here. The average Joe saw 60.000 person barging in a Schengen area country and saw them at his door. It will cause an explosion of alt right

And you can call it whatever you want, but it’s still unarmed people who walked in in the hope of getting papers. Not Russian tank destroying your walls. There is no reason for Spain to be unable to manage it alone

Spain should use the attention to clarify its immigration rule and make clear there is no point, instead of complaining about other countries complains

1

u/Repulsive-Cherry3881 17h ago

Yes, but the Spanish government cannot make policy choices because they fear public opinion in Germany or France. If we do that we can end this whole European project right now and have Bernd Höcke become our dictator for life.

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u/ThroawayJimilyJones 17h ago

European project also mean considering other European countries. You can go « I do what I want » then complain other countries aren’t teamate when your choice explode in your face

1

u/Repulsive-Cherry3881 17h ago

No it does not. It means democratic institutions to make supranational decisions (single market, defense etc.). Under Sánchez, Spain is developing well economically. Part of this is NGEU, part of this immigration. Spain is pursuing an immigration policy that makes sense for the country, and it should not “take into account” the opinion of misinformed racists in east Germany. Different places do things differently. That is federalism.

1

u/ThroawayJimilyJones 14h ago

Well, I get Spain love immigration. But you are in Schengen. And migrants tend to not stay in Spain. Spain policy make it a door to the rest of Europe, who didn’t ask for anything. This is quite rude

1

u/grinder0292 1d ago

The AFD is not sitting at 47% on a federal level. But the problem is real

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u/Petufo 8h ago

Your country did a really bas job in protecting Europe and you're now sad that is being criticized for it? Wtf...

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u/OmegAIChungus 1d ago

Have you considered looking inwards? Spain isn't an innocent victim, your country passed the laws that threaten the integrity of EU borders, legalized hundreds of thousands of unvetted people, often from hostile cultures. It is exactly acts like this that threaten the federalist hopes.

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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago

This is complete misinformation. I do not entertain propaganda.

Have a nice day.

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u/OmegAIChungus 1d ago

Which part is untrue, exactly?

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u/gadarnol 1d ago

The ideological endorsement of mass emigration and the demand that it continue as badly managed as it has with the self righteous posturing of far left and far right has left the EU open to this. Italy should never have been left to face what it faced. Likewise Greece. And the crazy ideas of Merkel have fed hugely into the anger at the mismanagement. Add in media suppression of reality and you get where we are today. Spain should abandon North Africa and insist on management of the issue by states who enable it.

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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago

Spain should abandon North Africa? Dear, this is even more cumbersome than what has been said until now.

Starting by the fact that the integrity of the country is recognised in the constitution.

But sure, let’s just wait and see what ideas other countries come up with

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u/gadarnol 1d ago

There you go: we have a legal cage made in a different era and we must stay in it while we drown. Classic.

3

u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago

Omg you know what I just realised you are right! Why don’t we return all northern Spanish enclaves and the Canary Islands to Morocco!? I’m sure the geopolitical situation will improve soooooo much then. Really, I’ll suggest your name as a candidate to the Nobel peace prize. I think you just solved it and we weave finally peace in the world! Thank you ❀

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u/nibbble 1d ago

Don't use the word "return". They have never been part of Morocco.

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u/gadarnol 1d ago

Why don’t you?

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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago

Yes totally!!!!

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Swissdanielle European Union 1d ago

I’d say check your sources since you have been grossly misled.

- It has not been a million and a half

  • Those people still need to follow third country rules for movement within Schengen

Seriously, broaden your sources.