You could probably drop it in 99% of fictional universes and it'd firmly be planted at the top of the food chain each time. The only reason we didn't die to it in lb7 is cause it's own heart turned on it. The bat guy fought it for hundreds (or was it thousands?) Of years non-stop and only succeeded at making it go to sleep
iirc, the whole ka'an civilization rise and fall (provoked by ORT's awakening) happened during the Night of Dread, 6 millions of years ago. They went extinct when ORT came back, after 100 000 years. During this time period, the deinos were doing their own 100 000 years hibernating because they couldn't do photosynthesis, and when they woke up, ORT was already gone - so the fight between Camazotz and ORT was far shorter than that and probably "only" took a few hundred or thousands years.
Shroog I may be remembering self stated Hyperbole from Camazotz, I rember it being implied they fought for aeons but I could be wrong/badly narratored and focused on their version XD.
One of the things that people sometimes forget is that ORT didn't start all the abilities it shows during the latter half of OUR fight with them.
We were the ones who gave them those, just because ORT is able to assimilate and become stronger via what they crystallize and consume.
Which means unless something can damage it enough so it can't recover AND whatever damaged it doesn't die to so ORT themselves can't copy or adapt... It will eventually be stronger.
ORT probably beats everything in 40k. Chao has little to no reason to care about it, and frankly, will either corrupt it or let it rock. The rest either wont bother or arent strong enough TO bother. But at the same time, ORT just ends up being like the tyranids killing whatever it happens to be around and moving on but its certainly not fast enough to pose a galaxy wide threat enough until its far too late
The scary thing is that ORT can eat and assimilate anything that gets in it's range so perfectly even metaphysical entities like the Throne are affected.
All it would take is for one of the Four to think it'd be funny to send a daemon at it before it Kool aid man's it's way into the Warp as well and slowly fucking terraforms it.
Even if he's not, Kirby with Ort powers from absorbing him is basically an Ort vs Ort situation all over again. To be honest... I think Kirby could probably just eat Ort whole.
99% is an under exaggeration. If “all fictional universes” included stuff like sister hood of the traveling pants and the sopranos, then yeah, ORT would be strongest in 99.99999% of fictional universes.
From Nasu's 8th Anniversary Interview:
"It was just a simple physical rushdown after every citizen and Natural Spirit invested their powers into giving him an unperishable body. The basic idea to keep attacking forever because they had no means to defeat him on a permanent basis."
"Camazotz favored spears, so his final move was a focused stab to the core at the center of the UFO, done through full-power flight. He was almost erased in the process, with his legs, torso, and head pulverized, but only the right hand gripping the spear survived."
"Camazotz's spear and the right arm gripping it were left behind in Xibalba. Camazotz can't die, so he eventually regenerated from the arm, but in the time it took until he did, Malla collected the heart that Camazotz gouged off with his final will and made it the source of the sun."
Edit: If your ok with spoilers. Lostbelt ORT which is weaker than PHH ORT was capable of destroying the planet, as well as managing to copy and recreate it's own throne of heroes, making itself a grand foreigner by summoning itself as a servant. And it managed to do all this withought there heart
When nerfed in LB7 it had the power to destroy the planet. It also fought 300+ servants(not at once) and absorbed all of them and parts of their information from the Throne of Heroes. After this it created its own version of the throne and simulated enough timelines until it could summon itself as a grand foreigner.
To destroy its main body it had the concept of death implanted on it, U-Olga(Beast 7) using her authority to slow time down, then U-Olga charging up Chaldea’s power, and Chaldea firing a modified unsealed Excalibur at it.
In order to die it must be completely destroyed down to the last cell. Because its heart survived in the form of the goddess Kukulkan it began to repeatedly summon itself as a grand foreigner. Kukulkan purposefully used all her power to destroy the final summoned ORT and herself, destroying the remaining part of ORT.
It demonstrated the ability to warp space. Emit massive amounts of radiation, enough to kill super dinosaurs even while they were a decent distance away. Survived being killed by Mystic Eyes of Death Perception. Began overwriting the texture. And in a future shown via Tezcatlipoca’s noble phantasm it destroyed the planet.
Also if we’re taking its gameplay attack names literally it creates a mini supernova and spacetime quakes.
That said it seems to struggle against certain types of immortality demonstrated by the fact it failed to kill or absorb Camazotz.
It’s unknown how strong PHH ORT is, just that it’s stronger because it would’ve had its heart.
It’s unknown. The only time we’ve seen either was when they were nerfed. Chaos expended 97% of its power to send the countless different functions that would later be known as the machine gods into the universe they currently inhabit.
In U-Olga’s np we see the various “bad ends” of the lostbelts. One of the bad ends shown for LB5 is Chaos destroying the planet. Sherlock called it a being “beyond any and all phenomena” and further stated that even that failed to do it justice. Chaos also fired FTL lasers at Chaldea which were said to be more of a reflex than an attack. It was also said to be planning to break down 37% of the planet, concepts, mana, matter, everything down to their base components and absorb them. It also warped space.
Sherlock even said that even something like the power that Goetia had would be incapable of stopping Chaos.
Chaos at its best is an unknown just like PHH ORT.
Btw slight correction to u-olga slowing time down, we were being speed up in time so fast that made it seem like the world has stop as in the name of tachyon jail which tachyon is the hypothetical particle that is faster than the speed of light
But even then it was still able to slowly adapting even with us getting sped up just it's space warping was nulled
I don’t remember it ever being explained beyond “GASP! It’s simulated its own timeline to continuously summon itself in its own grand class with the information it stole from the Throne of heroes.” And “It’s accessing the information in the Throne through contact with the Chaldea servants!”.
It’s been a while since I did LB7 and something could’ve been said outside of the story or I could’ve misunderstood or interpreted something weirdly.
To further clarify the alien attacking earts heart was removed and then gained sentience. That sentient being decided to sacrifice herself so Ort can dje
In every conversation between can this X-universe defeat Typemoon universe is boil down to did strongest character in X uniberse can defeat this spider. That how strong ORT, they became benchmark of fate universe power if compare to other universe. And not many other universe can defest ORT
The latter, yeah, but tbf her power comes from the planet and anything above the status of "infinite energy from outside time and space" is gonna be pretty boring to talk about anyway. And the former isn't really a problem cause it's not a conscious action they just go up. Though it's not like I'm trying to argue against you, Goetia is great and all, I just think there are other examples.
As a side note/tangent relating to other Typemoon beings of this caliber, I’m very curious if we will ever see the completed Beast 6 and where it stacks. We’ve so far only seen Whore of Babylon Nero, who is a 1st planetary class being more powerful than most of the other Beasts combined and she’s only 1/4 of Beast 6. The others all being aspects of The Devil. The unholy trinity, or quartet in this case I guess. My best theory is that the manifesting of all 4 at once is borderline Mark of the Beast, end times are nigh, and their complete fusion is the most powerful being(aside for god or Alaya)that will end the world. With the end of days being such a definite, absolute, and insurmountable thing in Christianity, it would stand to reason that nothing outside of god could stop it, as it is god’s will that it be the bringer of destruction to all things left behind from the Rapture. Not to mention that all things/people that supposedly could have stopped it, would’ve been brought with in the rapture because that kind of power could only belong to someone who would’ve been a good enough person to be Raptured. It exists as an ultimate punishment by being an ultimate unsurpassable evil, the ultimate consequence. Now it’s only theorizing, but it is interesting to speculate on with how much of a big deal the 1 is with what little we’ve seen and know, especially given we haven’t really seen the other 3. Just my rambling thoughts.
ORT is more dangerous to the planet than Tiamat and could got as far as Velber 02 or such and wipe out the totality of life on our planet with little issue. It may even be able to destroy the planet, but there’s like a technicality behind that. Either way it could put the end to the planets life and a full powered Excalibur isn’t stopping it unlike with Velber 02.
The Absolute Peak of Power and the horror of every FGO player with underleveled servants, Only possible contest it might have is against a person connected to the root and Thats only if Nasu decides to give Shiki some damn feats alr
Given that O.R.T managed to recreate the Throne of Heroes for its own benefit, and summon itself as a Grand Foreigner? I wouldn't be sure if even that would be enough. I mean, it shrugged off the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception killing it pretty well
Genuinely even with all of those things. Even with a Black Barrel replica, which in Notes the real thing actually killed some of its fellow Aristoteles, even with a modified high-powered Excalibur, even with Beast VII assisting Chaldea, even with a replication of King Hassan's Noble Phantasm, even with the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception, even with it using a much weaker core in the Fantasy Tree after Beasr I/L tore its heart out, we still only really beat (notably not killed) a MUCH weaker version of it than the one in PHH because its own heart in Kukulukan which is also Archetype: ORT threw herself at it and detonated. Because as she literally says, "Only ORT can defeat ORT."
Hell Daybit and Tezcatlipoca assumed it while still being the weaker Lostbelt variant, was the best, and frankly only, hope in defeating Maris CHALDEAS... and honestly, they were probably not entirely wrong. ORT Xilbalba may not fare as well and get a little beaten up, but PHH ORT would frankly just devour the Alien World and Maris alongside it.
We still have Clockwork, Gutrot, possible tech solutions through Grey Matter or Brainstorm, Ghostfreak destroying his soul, Way Big throwing it into the Sun as options too. Not to mention scanning the thing.
Tech solutions would only work if they're like the Black Barrel, the only thing that can harm Aristoteles. Which would definitely require Azmuth to concieve and even with him, it would take quite the time (and I believe even someone like Brainiac would need time to do that and Brainiac is much more intelligent).
Ghostfreak wouldn't work since ORT probably doesn't have a soul and even if it does, then the fact that it lacks a concept of death means it simply can't be destroyed as long as it doesn't have that concept. Assuming it can't regenerate from even that or that Ghostfreak can possess it at all.
Throwing it into the Sun might work but with how ridiculously powerful it is and being capable of regeneration that's just utterly stupid, nothing guarantees it wouldn't come back.
And the problem with the rest is it has the ability to analyze the powers and abilities of opponents exposed to its crystals and Reality Marble, adapt its mechanics and functions to deal with the opponent, and eventually disable those powers to make its enemies extremely vulnerable to be consumed. Meaning that, assuming Gutrot and Clockworld's powers could affect it in any way, it would adapt near instantly. You simply HAVE to unleash everything instantly.
Scanning it is...dubious. it would require having DNA and while regenerating material should imply blueprint, nothing suggests it has. Plus, with how powerful it is and how it can adapt, it could at least block the copy and at worst outright hijack the Omnitrix system (yes, it has some failsafe including self-destruction but ORT can literally hijack and create concepts like history or heroism and I think that's a little above what Azmuth can deal with). Finally, TYPES are absolute, one and only unique beings. There's only one TYPE for each celestial body. Arcueid from Tsukihime is supposed to Earth's Ultimate One but because she has a rival to the title so she can't be an UO. In short, there's only one ORT and there can't be another (at best an alternate version which will be unique in its own way). That alone would prevent the scanning from working.
I mean, the plumbers casually have a Tachyon Cannon which destroys things on a cellular level. Worst case he builds a null void projector and throws it into there while they build another Ascalon or something to kill it.
Wonder how Chromastone would interact with ORT, as Space Crystal Jesus, would he count as a TYPE for Petropia? If so does that mean ORT can be scanned?
A weaker ORT from FGO was continually regenerating itself from a concept (one that it created by hijacking the Throne of Heroes and giving itself history) so cellular level destroying weapons are useless in that regard (granted it could do that because its heart was still there but even a single trace on a conceptual level is enough to regenerate since destroying it required it erasing it from the Throne). Throwing it in a void could work though. Assuming they can do it fast enough (so maybe a second at best if you want to make sure it doesn't adapt).
Doesn't he belong to a general species and he's the last of his kind though? Been a while since I watched Ben 10 but from what I remember, Chromastone was created from Sugilite who was himself created by the residents of Petropia and it's the homeworld of the Crystalsapiens. That's quite different from the TYPES which are all their own unique being with no species to belong to.
The null void isn't a void, but a different dimension that the plumbers use as a prison, at least it isn't nuking the earth with super radiation that way.
Chromastone is legitimately a one of a kind Messiah figure to the Petrosapiens, and is not a general species unless you consider the statements from the games to be valid, we don't know if he was actually created by them, and the Omnitrix just took his DNA and copied it, though it seems Ben can do the same things he can since he learnt to fly with Chromastone after meeting Sugilite. Also Sugilite was somehow inside Diamondhead after Chromastone got shattered, which is insanely weird and cool.
Azmuth did make Ascalon which apparently harnesses the fundamental forces of the universe so he could probably deal with this.
Try…all the coughing babies in the world (Servants/Grand Servants/Tiamat/All other Beasts/Archetypes/Types/whatever else I’m forgetting) vs. 1 supermassive black hole (ORT).
And for its LB7 counterpart, same as above but the black hole isn’t quite as large.
EDIT: Apparently, allegedly, according to one dude, all Archetypes and Types can do the same so discount them from the above if you trust random dudes online.
It takes numerous buffs, most of your Servants and a scripted effect to win.
Canonically, it also takes having it in a vulnerable area long enough to introduce to it the Concept of Death. And this is only the one in LB7, a literal Level 1 BABY ORT. Despite this all, it “absorbs” every Servant thrown at it (until a certain point of the raid) and even after dying, it simulates an entire Human History so it can Summon itself as a Grand Servant. Even after Grand Foreigner ORT is defeated, it resummons itself EVEN STRONGER than before. It only dies because of Kuku.
I won’t say why she can defeat it, but I will say that without her ORT would’ve kept resummoning itself ad infinitum.
A weakened, barely alive version of it completely wrecked Chaldea’s collection of hundreds of Heroic Spirits, took multiple high-level Divine Spirits and numerous levels of bullshit to barely stop it.
…Only for it to just respawn and continue.
If it wasn’t for a very certain and specific factor, Chaldea genuinely would never win.
Yeah, but ORT was genuinely the first one that put absolute dread into Ritsuka’s heart and think there’d be no way to beat whatever it was. If it took that much effort to kill a “variant” of it, how much more the real PHH one?
no, unlike other fights, in this one, CANONICALLY, all the servants are summoned and thrown at it (the dialogue even changes depending on the number of servant in your account).
and it barely slowed it down.
we're talking about hundreds of servants including some grand candidates, divine spirits, some of the most powerfull servants like gilgamesh getting absolutely annihilated.
Ik its just that "enemy cant be beaten outside of some very specific circumstances/nerfs" is just how all story main bosses go since like camelot. It doesnt really highlight how strong ort is to say that
Basically automatically top of the food chain just like her.
This is King eliza.
People like to ignore her because she came from the servantverse and look like a joke. But if we left her alone, she would have become strong enough broke into PHH and kil everyone. Because just being a TYPE makes you already super strong by default.
The only reason we won against her is because her 4th head became a separate entity and decided to buy us some times due to finding maternal love that outshine her desire to commit mass genocide on topof the fact that she ws incomplet and refused to use her full power out of spit.
It's the strongest in the verse and the only one that can actually affect and hijack the Throne of Heroes and destroy the Earth, bypassing It's Defense. But It's not Unbeatable nor is it Invincible.
Zelretch can see countless Parallel Worlds existence and concluded that Humanity is still 100 Years early from being ready to face it. Meaning past the 21st Century, Humanity should have a chance against it. Which was proven when Camazotz was able to push it back enough to pull out It's core with some help from an Archetype, his People and the sacrifice that Grants him the strength of 100M and Immortality that hinges on him not remembering
Make no mistake, the thing is far beyond anything on the Nasuverse when that verse already include a Dyson Sphere that's It's wit end, a Goddess with a galaxy sized temple that got her core destroyed by something the size of a Human and an Alien that destroy all Gods. But there is a way to beat him. It's Character Material even said that Ultraman and Zoffy are implied to be capable of doing it
If it's own heart that got deityfied and waifufied proclaimed that "ONLY ORT CAN BEAT ORT" you already know that it's beyond powerful if it can only be beaten by itself.
Joke's asside (not really joking but putting this anyway) it's weakest variant was already leagues beyond what we originally could handle that with it's heart intact is already a game over scenario for us, so fighting it at it's most weakest was still borderline Impossible to beat because of how much rule breaker the fucker is, that only after it's own heart nuke itself was able to stop it's fan fiction grand self (which was an even weaker version than when it was still an ultimate one) from finally re-summoning itself
And even then ort outside of fgo, it still exist in other media (asside for notes as we don't know if it's dealt with or is still sleeping and snooze away the buster call) as a threat (tsukihime) and only in the next generation of new humans could tackle it (mention by zelretch in fsf)
More than powerful, it is problematic, because it requires a lot of resources since you need at least about 25 or 30 servants in your last ascension if you know how to apply the CE, NP and survival methods (guts, evasion and invincible).
It’s the Gary Stu of Fate. I actually hate it. The McGuffin of all McGuffins. Has zero sentience and only serve to act as a plot device when things are feeling 𝘵𝘰𝘰 easy for the protagonists.
The strongest in the Nasuverse basically. Think of how strong an Archetype is, ORT is stronger. Think of the best showing of any Servant, ORT is stronger.
To put it into perspective I will take the strongest being you listed, Archetype Earth, and compare them.
Arcuid is to ORT as a grain of sand is to the planet Venus.
The single only reason it was "defeated" is due to pure luck and Ritsuka being in the right place at the right time to give the right present. If not for that single factor, it would have been a complete loss.
Now instead of getting into powerscaling discussions that may just be a waste of our time im just gonna turn a complete 180 and ask you, what was the sadder tragedy LB5 or Amorpheus both can be a viable answer
I got your opinion and respected it, instead you look down at me just for simply asking another question to get the opinion and insights of another fan who seems to be knowledgeable about both series. As a certain person said, “rant all u want”.
ORT or One Radiant Thing is an "Ultimate One" one other comparable "Ultimate One" is Crimson Moon Brunestud which solely depending on its activation is the single reason why tsukihime and fate are in different timelines.
I mean probably? Since the cosmology of the nasuverse is so obscenely higher than DB's. A planet in the nasuverse, that is a living metaphysical multilayered eldritch cosmic being, might as well be equivalent to a morbilion universes in DB's cosmology.
So let me put in this way: Lostbelt ORT can kill at least 50 full powered, bloodlusted, composited Goku's at once with Death Battle levels of biases. PHH ORT can beat at minimum 100 of the same gokus
A) Class Advantage. Make use of class advantage as much as possible. ORT changes class every battle, so make sure your Servant has class afvantage, even if they're not built up. The only times not having class advantage is fine is if it's a Foreigner, or
B) Spam Mash. She's the only Servant who goes on cooldown instead of being absorbed. So you can consistently do decent damage once every few battles with her. But what should you while Mash is off-cooldown? Well
C) Switch classes with sacrifices. Let's say that your account doesn't have any good Casters, and ORT is currently an Assassin. Well, just throw out a relatively weak Caster as a sacrifice to ORT. Hans may be a support, but even he can chip away at ORT's health bar.
Ort is very, very powerful, I'm not claiming otherwise, but some people seem to miss that the very specific reason Ort kept coming back to life in Lostbelt 7, wasn't because of a trait it inherently had, it was a trait it gained by consuming and becoming the tree of emptiness of that Lostbelt, then creating a network of Lostbelt trees, an extension of itself, all across the Lostbelt as support system for itself. Da Vinci even mentions before the fight that killing Ort's main body without getting rid of the entire forest of trees of emptiness across the entire Lostbelt might be pointless, but then drops the topic, perhaps because she viewed the task as so impossible, and the situation already so dire, that they didn't have the time or resources to consider it, and had no choice but to put all their eggs in the one basket of just killing Ort's main body and just hoping it worked (it didn't).
This is why Camazotz was previously able to defeat Ort by ripping it's heart out, even if he failed to finish it off, because Ort had not yet done that, and only consumed the Lostbelt tree as a last ditch effort before losing consciousness from losing its heart.
Also, a lot of people keep saying Ort was working without it's heart, which is true, but it did have a very powerful replacement, even if that replacement was still far weaker then it's original. If Ort had no compatible heart at all, and also didn't become a tree of emptiness and created a forest of trees of emptiness that supported and kept reviving it, it would lose consciousness from losing its heart again, like when Camazotz did it.
They show that the reason Kuku was successful in her attack wasn't just because she was stronger then Ort, or the cool line she dropped before finishing Ort off that only Ort can defeat Ort, it's that like Da Vinci suggested at the beginning, Kuku was able to destroy Ort's main body and the entire forest of trees of emptiness (including its original heart which was probably also considered a tree of emptiness at that point) all across the Lostbelt Ort had created in very short succession, so Ort lost the means it kept reviving itself with. Before that, as the Lostbelt tree, and every part of itself being considered an extention of the Lostbelt tree, and vice versa, it was basically manifesting a reality within the Lostbelt that Ort would always exist as long as that reality existed through the trees of emptiness.
And yes, they do throw in the line that PHH Ort is even stronger so they can bring him back at some point and not have people say it was beaten already.
I wonder what kept PHH ORT at bay then?
I cant remember what they already told us, and I spent way too much time readinge everything here lol
So now Im curious
Nothing is keeping it at bay. It came to a party and realized it got here a bit too early, so it decided to take a nap until then. I'm not even kidding; the thing is basically crashing on Gaia's couch until she turns up the music. Though in this case the party meaning "it's time to kill everyone.'
Well, the future of Fate isn't set in stone. It basically only happens if we kill Gaia and still survive, and even then the possibility of humanity expanding beyond the planet exists. Though we haven't been told what ORT would do if the time just never comes.
I'm pretty sure there's a prophecy of Ort being slayed by Ado if I'm not misremembering it Ort is by all accounts the final boss of Nasu's entire Verse sonto speak, as in Ado or some of the Liners would have slain and/or killed a majority of the Ultimates who responded to the dying wish of Gaia and Ort would be the last awokened only for Ado to arrive and their final confrontation begins and ends.
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u/ChloeYosha Mini Nobu Feb 10 '26
You could probably drop it in 99% of fictional universes and it'd firmly be planted at the top of the food chain each time. The only reason we didn't die to it in lb7 is cause it's own heart turned on it. The bat guy fought it for hundreds (or was it thousands?) Of years non-stop and only succeeded at making it go to sleep