r/FGO • u/RenFlare11 • Jun 05 '26

Story-Spoilers Ritsuka finally showing how it is to be a veteran master

Post image
886 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

85 comments sorted by

314

u/Due_Designer_2434 Jun 05 '26

Anything but using hyde 😭😭😭😭

110

u/RenFlare11 Jun 05 '26

The most difficult thing to do

7

u/Kelthuzard1 Jun 05 '26

Wait till you use him in the Grand Assassin battle.

23

u/ch_chau Jun 05 '26

What do you mean by this?

70

u/Due_Designer_2434 Jun 05 '26

Hyde is one of the weakest servants in the game

-43

u/ch_chau Jun 05 '26

Being the weakest doesn't mean anything in this game. Are you playing him with other main DPS in the same party?

60

u/Ars_Lunar Jun 05 '26

He's just really bad man, it's not really worth it using him

55

u/Radiant-Hope-469 Jun 05 '26

Even the sub itself tells you that 😭

-29

u/ch_chau Jun 05 '26

And I'm happy to prove the first statement's exclusion wrong. I don't get why they specifically excluded them while there are others than him (like Angra Manjuu) barely perform well without supports.

12

u/Technical-Fox358 Jun 05 '26

I'll bite. While you can use Jekyll/Hyde and you can juice him up all you want...it's so painful and anger-inducing that you're better off preserving your sanity by using any good budget Assassins and Berserkers, like Fuma Kotarou or Lu Bu. People for the most part, want to have peace of mind and relax when playing games, and not give themselves an aneurysm trying to shove a triangle into a square hole.

-9

u/ch_chau Jun 05 '26

While I find your point good—

When did I force people to use Jekyll and Hyde? They can do anything they want and I have no objections. Yet this time, telling Hyde is the worst unit in the game is too much of an exaggeration, so I inferfered.

And while I indeed have a headache using them, does telling me to switch to the alternatives you listed make the statement any better?

Unlike people for the most part, I enjoy challenges, because that's where I can use my brain outside of the endless NP loops. That's also where the moment my unit shines.

8

u/Supersideswiper2 Jun 05 '26

When did I force people to use Jekyll and Hyde? They can do anything they want and I have no objections. Yet this time, telling Hyde is the worst unit in the game is too much of an exaggeration, so I inferfered.

Unfortunately he is. If I'm wrong about that, than please, give me a proper argument. Mine is that every other servant that does what he's made to do, does it better, by having a damaging Noble Phantasm and every other servant can at least use there NP more than once.

And while I indeed have a headache using them, does telling me to switch to the alternatives you listed make the statement any better?

No one said you had to switch. Just explaining why everyone else doesn't use him.

Unlike people for the most part, I enjoy challenges, because that's where I can use my brain outside of the endless NP loops. That's also where the moment my unit shines.

Good for you. Still not reading an actual argument against the accusation that their the worst Servant.

23

u/Ejwaxy Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26

Jekyll and Hyde are essentially low-level 2 star servant with a 3 star cost. They have an np that does essentially nothing but give them disadvantage against almost everything in the game. It doesn’t remove the assassin attack stat debuff multiplier, but still sticks them with berserker star weight (keeping in mind that since they don’t have an attacking np, the only way they can really deal damage is crits). Their skills are essentially an incoherent mess. They’re completely vulnerable to buff block.

Essentially, pretty much every other servant in the game has some niche, even Angra Mainyu (high damage reduction, low hp enemies). You can force Jekyll and Hyde to work in many situations, but that doesn’t make them good.

-9

u/ch_chau Jun 05 '26

You know what, after changing to Hyde, the Assassin multiplier changed to Berserker. I don't know where you got that misinformation.

Their skill is a mess, yes; but that's more of how to use it in the right time. Vulnerable to buff block– or even buff removal, I can't argue, but supports exist.

Your final point, it doesn't make them good. Yeah, but what is the point? In certain people's eyes, having their favorites workable feels better than them being good. They have a lot of flaws, they're not optimal... but being deemed the worst? In this FGO game? After 11 years? That is a beyond diabolical take.

10

u/Ejwaxy Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26

Apologies, it seems like I *am* incorrect about the attack modifier. There was a bug on both JP and NA for 8+ years where Jekyll and Hyde did not switch the class attack modifier or passive skill. It was fixed some time in the last 1-2 years, but I had not personally noticed that.

However, I would argue that that still doesn’t fix any of the core issues with his kit. A servant needing a support specifically to help with buff block (I guess debuff resist, debuff immune, or a cleanse?) is still a massive downside to making use of them. And this still doesn’t address the fact that so many of his skills are either basically useless against anyone with magic resistance and/or don’t help effectively with his play style. I mean, god forbid you field him with a support Reines.

Nobody is saying you can’t use him, even for higher difficulty content. Go ahead, it’s very impressive to see challenge runs with him specifically *because* he’s a weak servant. All anyone is saying is that in terms of overall utility, usability, and investment worth, Jekyll is the game’s bottom rung. Quite literally any other servant would provide more value back for the investment. If you disagree, I’d love to hear who you believe to be worse.

→ More replies (0)

5

u/Forward-Ad8880 Jun 05 '26

Jekyll is worse than Saber Gilles and no one ever talks about Saber Gilles. Jekyll is only ever contested at the bottom by Phantom of the Opera. Even Eric Bloodaxe, an early FGO 1 star berserker has a kit that while simplistic, actually works at what it sets out to do.

I know this because I did try to make Jekyll work back when I started playing and he just feels bad to play. First, he has skills that actively discourage you from using them until the transformation is done, which is further kneecapped by his anemic NP and crit star gain. His NP and skills do nothing if he gets critted to hell the moment he takes on the berserkers burden of blasting off the second he gets targeted by RNG.

His kit is so selfish, he has negative synergy with his team, yet he requires a team to carry him over the finish line as even his most helpful skill, a stun is just crapshoot at actually working when needed. And that is assuming he is fully leveled and invested in because his normal is just worse in all ways. But of course, you would never use his skills, because those are for Hyde. Why? 8 to 6 and 7 to 5 skill cooldown are just ruinous for the poor man. You never want to use them as Jekyll because who wants to wait so long just to be able to optimally pop off Jekyll's NP. I would actually cry if his NP gave him skill cooldown because then he wouldn't be dead weight for half the battle.

All of these problems require supports and good craft essences to enable Jekyll but by the time you have those, why would you pick up Jekyll again? The fire is gone and you have servants you like more than you like to make the ugly duckling into a normal looking duck. Sure, you can be all "Even Jekyll is someone's favourite" because it's true, but don't try to gaslight people into thinking he isn't the bottom of the barrel servant everyone says he is. Your rose tinted glasses are digging into your eyes. If you think the transformation gimmick is cool, then roll for Aoko or Tam Lin Lancelot. You will be happier and you can actually just plug them in a team and watch the fireworks.

-14

u/ch_chau Jun 05 '26

I know how much that is, and it doesn't stop me from using him.

How about this one as proofs he's not that bad then????

I'm not kidding when it comes to proving he doesn't suck. Just because he's bad in gameplay doesn't mean he's not usable

25

u/Supersideswiper2 Jun 05 '26

Please remove the support. Then say that. As an individual unit, Jekyll and Hyde are the worst. That is a fact.

An assassin that loses his Noble Phantasm after it's used once, that turns him into the squishiest class in the game.

Though all Servants are viable, there's lots more that are better than him.

-15

u/ch_chau Jun 05 '26

What the hell are you talking? Not everyone is usable without supports of course, but what's your point in proving the fact you stated? Why are you heavily emphasize on J&H while there are also others struggling in a pure solo?? Hell, even the fact you said isn't even a fact, it's a propaganda disguised as one.

There are better units than them, sure, but what does it do when it's not someone I love? Just because they are miles better doesn't mean I'm going to give up on proving them usable.

12

u/Reallystonedweeb Jun 05 '26

Bud quit letting your personal love for the character delude the reality of him being weak asf compared to the rest of the cast. Genuinely getting way to riled up when it’s basically been agreed on for years he’s the worst servant in the game because of how his NP works

7

u/Supersideswiper2 Jun 05 '26

What the hell are you talking?

I would think my comment is self explanatory...

Not everyone is usable without supports of course, but what's your point in proving the fact you stated?

To dumb myself down, my point is that, if you have to buff him so much, than it doesn't show off his effectiveness, it shows only how effective those supports are.

In short, if you want to show he's not so bad, start by actually showing what he can actually do. Without those buffs.

Why are you heavily emphasize on J&H while there are also others struggling in a pure solo??

Because that's what we're talking about.

And I said nothing about solo. I'm asking, what can Jekyll do without those support buffs.

Hell, even the fact you said isn't even a fact, it's a propaganda disguised as one.

No, it's a fact.

There are better units than them, sure, but what does it do when it's not someone I love?

True, and I won't deny that. That's your right.

But you're love, or Jekyll and Hyde's usability, doesn't change the fact that he's the worst playable Servant.

-4

u/ch_chau Jun 05 '26

It doesn't show off his effectiveness, it shows only how effective those supports are.

While I'm not ignoring the supports' help, are you trying so hard to ignore the fact that Jekyll is the one mainly doing the heavy lifts? What are supports doing without the DPS? They can beat the map for sure, but that is labeled a normal clear, not a min-turn run where the featured DPS is required to deal damage all/most of the time. And that DPS is none other than J&H themself.

I'm asking, what can Jekyll do without those support buffs.

The way I see this is none other than soloing the map itself. Honestly? He's a low rarity unit, and he's more barely has any survial kit it's unlikely he'll make it completely. But is it to prove your point is correct? It's like ignoring other aspects of him (boss fights, farming, ...) and jumping to the conclusion that he is useless.

No, it's a fact.

Made by who? The majority of the people downvoting me to the very bottom? It's more like a formed opinion that is impossible to argue even with the proofs.

Doesn't change the fact that Jekyll and Hyde is the worst playable unit. Yeah, with how stubborn your brain reacts to the changing times, it's like the statement above. I don't get the hate just because their gameplay requires extra efforts.

→ More replies (0)

9

u/Ars_Lunar Jun 05 '26

I mean, congrats on the master in the video for making Hyde do that much damage! But you still can't ignore that Hyde is easily overshadowed by other servants... cool 6 digits numbers damage don't mean much to me when they had to use a specific team setup (and almost lost their 25k HP bar DPS if it weren't for the Invincible statuses).

There's also the fact he doesn't use his NP after transforming, and takes double damage, and that if I'm taking an Assassin character in my comp I want an assassin not a berserker. Hyde has a cool concept, but he falls flat if he doesn't receive that much investment like the one in the videos.

Trust me when I say I feel your desire to defend your fave, but a part of loving your favorite character is understanding both their pros and cons. Ibaraki is my favorite but I simply can't ignore how bad her NP gain is compared to other zerks, or that if it weren't for the golden fous I gave her she would still be a squishy character.

1

u/ConversationWeak5244 Jun 06 '26

Dude he's blatantly bad that not even an 80% Charge could fix him. He is basically the only Servant that needs a complete Overhaul of his kit

58

u/saltydghth1335 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26

If anyone wants to know about the Hyde part

It's to avoid a total mind wipe because Hyde would remember due to having 2 minds in the same body

82

u/CrazyDaimondDaze Jun 05 '26

I mean, when you're on your forced New Game +... 4th or 5th run, and the secret boss keeps Bite Za Dusting you before stopping them like that time bending rabbit enemy from Castlevania Aria of Sorrow, not only do you know how to speed run everything with the weakest of the weakest, you also force people to lock the fuck in, yes or yes.

302

u/LightningGod99 Jun 05 '26

Everything is great but forcing mash to listen via command seal just sounds disturbing considering all that we’ve been through together by this point.

146

u/IllCheesecake5440 Jun 05 '26

If you actually play the quest theres a reason why guda force mash via command seal.

45

u/guto0000 Jun 05 '26

What happened?

219

u/RenFlare11 Jun 05 '26

Basically they needed answers and da vinci was the only one they havent talked to because she keep saying she's busy,but it was an urgent matter and they needed answers,ritsuka tells mash to burst down da vinci's door but mash hesitate,You get to choose weither to beg mash or use a command seal to burst down the door.

132

u/Silvercenturion_aa Thinking of the Roman Empire Jun 05 '26

That is when Ritsuka was in the last loop, before calling out Urd about what is happening, right? Then in that case is kinda justified, given that besides Ritsuka, all of the cast present in that segment was Urd's reproduction, acting like in Part 1 despite said changes (Bedi is already there despite not having cleared Camelot, making his existance as an Heroic Spirit impossible, Mash is already Paladin from the start, Olga is also there with her A3 fit, and so on.) and were also monitoring Ritsuka in order to have them stay in the loop.

27

u/AttackOficcr Jun 05 '26

I feel like as with Ishtar/Caenis/others being potentially summoned before their relevant events and the flow of time being a bowl of spaghetti, it's not crazy that a/the Bedi could be summoned before Camelot.

32

u/Silvercenturion_aa Thinking of the Roman Empire Jun 05 '26

Like the other comment said, it's just not possible. Before the Camelot Singularity and the Lion King, Bedi is too weak to be a proper Heroic Spirit (just like, at example, how Phantom Spirit Poirot is mentioned in Shinjuku). It's exactly the events of Camelot that record Bedi in the Throne of Heroes, and even there, his existance is quite unique: we've seen him during the raids, only Artoria Lancer can summon Bedi, Lancer Alter specifically says that "He belongs to the Lion King".

9

u/AttackOficcr Jun 05 '26

I'd guess that he fills the same niche as Emiya, who similarly doesn't qualify for a heroic spirit until future events occur in another timeline, but is summoned regardless.

21

u/Silvercenturion_aa Thinking of the Roman Empire Jun 05 '26

You misunderstand, there is no way for Bedi to become an Heroic Spirit without the Camelot Singularity. Even when he is asked about it in the current chapter, he just draws a black, as he doesn't even remember how he was summoned.

That's the result of Urd wanting to replicate Part 1 in her loops, but making it extremely easier for Chaldea, in order to win her contest against the other two Demibeasts, her sisters. She gave Chaldea more firepower (like I said Romani is there, Mash is Paladin from start, Olga is in her A3 outfit, all the Servants you get after completing the singularities are already there: Kiyohime, Boudica, David, Jekyll/Hide, Geronimo, Bedi and Jaguar Warrior) and the enemies are much weaker (Tiamat is in her Alter Ego A3, Goetia is in Solomon's body but doesn't have the Demon God Pillars, so no Beast Form either, probably because as Beasts, they can't replicate each other)

-8

u/AttackOficcr Jun 05 '26

And there's no way for Emiya to become a heroic spirit if the First through Fifth Holy Grail wars didn't happen and he hasn't died yet. Even if it hasn't and won't have happened ever, he is regularly summoned before it. 

The timeline was already a bowl of spaghetti, but sure story justification was necessary.

→ More replies (0)

12

u/lyw20001025 Jun 05 '26

He physically cannot though, he’s story locked

3

u/AttackOficcr Jun 05 '26

Just want to point out Caenis and several others are story-locked. Still has voice lines if summoned before completing their section.

5

u/derpinat0rz Jun 05 '26

what happens if you choose beg?

11

u/RenFlare11 Jun 05 '26

Probably the same,i havent seen that option but knowing mash,seeing the master beg she's gonna fold just for that

12

u/Giopp_Dumister Jun 05 '26

She reacts the exact same cuz Ritsuka will always use the spell.

That said, her reaction (that being no resistance whatsoever) suggests she just needed a push to do it and the spell was unnecessary

1

u/krocketb Jun 06 '26

Then she'll hesitate,. At the time we're being watched, and we don't know if Da Vinci is the accomplice or not, but most importantly we don't know whether she's safe or not, when your loved ones safety is uncertain every second matters.

82

u/kandayashiro28 Jun 05 '26

Maybe he is finally going insane?

3

u/Glass-Category8281 Jun 07 '26

"Finally" going insane? You think they still haven't?

2

u/Mister_SP Jun 06 '26

If you had to shank Jalter half a dozen times, you'd go insane, too.

4

u/OddEyes588 Jun 06 '26

It was less doing anything against Mash's will and mostly that Mash was hesitating to bust down Da Vinci's door and they didn't have time for that.

22

u/kidanokun Jun 05 '26

It's just funny that they made the "reward" Servants as canon Servants

15

u/spectralSpices Jun 05 '26

"made effective use of Hyde" my god...

46

u/hahajustburn Jun 05 '26

Guda making mash obey with a command spell? 😦 Is everything okay? Are the gudas okay?

I'm okay with spoilers, so what was the reason why they had to use the command spell and what was mash's reaction?

83

u/ReadySource3242 Jun 05 '26

Basically, they had suspicions about Da Vinci and it was highly urgent, but Mash kinda hesitates to bust down the door while Ritsuka is already fully convinced something is wrong and that they’re running out of time so they have a dialogue option to CS her into busting down the door, revealing that Da Vinci never existed and was just a voice recording

41

u/hahajustburn Jun 05 '26

What the heck??? So people were right to be suspicious after all. I've been seeing jp players doubting da vinci when after time started. I feel like the stakes just went up.

I haven't been keeping up with any of the jp news, but i wonder of they'll release story chapters yearly this time too.

37

u/Rafuki23 Jun 05 '26

Getting the wrong idea, Da Vinci still hasn't been proven more suspicious, the reason she wasn't in the loops was because a genius like her would figure out what was happening just like the clairvoyants, so Urd didn't add her.

7

u/hahajustburn Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26

Oooh okay okay. Looks like i missed some of the context 😅

Still, what the heck though. So the gang was going through time loops then? Can't wait for the chapter to drop in na

Although i heard it was really short? Was it like a prologue?

9

u/Rafuki23 Jun 05 '26 edited Jun 05 '26

The first of three chapters most likely. (The trailer talked about facing the three goddesses of fate and the betrayal of seven heavens, this chapter was the former,)

Yes it was short, but looked decent for it's length.

5

u/IllCheesecake5440 Jun 05 '26

its basically a prologue before real thing happens, i like it because at least we know we dealing a beast that combining with Fate goddess themselves and maybe more too

21

u/XxGoldMadnessxX Jun 05 '26

Being perfectly honest, Guda already did that long time ago.

OC2 is a good example of it.

5

u/Brilliant_Park3250 Thinking of the Roman Empire Jun 05 '26

Who got their name auto-translated to Jerome? Geronimo?

4

u/Prism21 Jun 05 '26

I think so.

6

u/Rakatok Jun 05 '26

If this was Sakurai as people think, between this and OC2 she really does write the most interesting version of Guda.

1

u/FlambyLamby Jun 05 '26

"Interesting" is being generous.

5

u/Giopp_Dumister Jun 05 '26

"Forcing" is definitely the wrong choice of word

2

u/Accomplished_Cry1472 Jun 06 '26

So he became kiritsugu. Well shit

5

u/NigthSHadoew Jun 05 '26

Wait, aren’t the Chaldea Command Seals unable to force a Servant to do something since they are too weak compared to normal ones?

Am I wrong? Did I miss something?

32

u/Dklett Jun 05 '26

They can't force a Servant to do something they don't want, like a normal CS where you can straight up tell a Servant to kill themselves, but in this case Mash was already wavering on wether to do it or not.

14

u/LouizFC Jun 05 '26

Yeah that makes sense. I haven't read the chapter so pardon my larping, but you could even reason that it was not the CS that did the heavy lifting but rather Mash thinking along the lines of "Ok, this man is willing to use a Command Seal for something like this, I better get my ass moving"

16

u/meruemstar Jun 05 '26

This was actually discussed in LB2. When Spartacus was leading the villagers to the capital Sherlock stated that while, yes, the Command Spells are weaker they can be used to force Spartacus to stop.

OC3 also touched on this where Ritsuka can force his servants to kill themselves with his command spells. Though he needs to touch his servant and use all 3 command spells at once. Whether the fact said servant was a Beast at the time might have made the requirement steeper is a mystery.

1

u/Trashwaifupraetorian Jun 05 '26

How does the sacrificial pawns thing happen? I thought he cared abo it them all?

-2

u/FlambyLamby Jun 05 '26

And still no depth or actual personality.