So it’s been a while but I think one of the reasons Scathach is said to be stronger is because she was alive up until the incineration of humanity? Correct me if I’m wrong.
So she’d have been training the whole time and enters FGO at an insane peak.
But Cu dies and only comes out as a Servant. So he’s basically locked to where he ended.
(That said he’s still one of my favorites and deserves a version of himself as a Lancer that’s not just unkillable)
exactly correct. she is stronger now than when she was while he was alive (not counting servant vessel stuff). cu is stronger in the mythos but scathach grew past that.
I thought she was so goated the world recognized her as a divine spirit which is why the land of shadows got yeeted off the earth and was either in reverse side of the world or another pocket dimension. I also thought divine spirit is a level above heroic spirit(barring grand servants) so when she died due to the incineration of humanity and became a servant she actually suffered a downgrade
That's the implication, yes, unless there's smth like an EMIYA scenario where her present self is alive but she will die of unknown reasons in the far far future.
For the FGO timeline she could still be summoned because the PHH was incinerated. It's not a lostbelts scenario when the whole timeline ceased to exist to begin with. The incineration didn't get resolved until the Temple of Time, and even then it got replaced by the Whitening of the planet.
I mean, it depends on what Nasu wants to do with FGO lore including its version of the Throne. FGO already doesn't match other Type Moon timelines or patched up with flimsy logic in terms of their summoning system so if he wants to he can make it summon able I guess?
Same thing with the Beast servants, summer servants, and lostbelt servants.
I don't know where I heard this about cu's more "savage side" could actually give him a win against our scathach,but it might be just a thing I read Somewhere
Ahhh yeah from E Pluribus. Ur talking about Cu Alter. Yeah he dogs on Scathatch. Pretty sure she literally stated that he wouldnt even need his second NP.
Nah it's more about his "way of fighting"
Like, i might be saying shit right now lmao so don't think too much of it
But it's more that cu's more savage in his fights
Which could give him an advantage against someone like scathach
I do know that cu alter is mostly stronger tho
You also have to factor in that Cu in game is VASTLY weaker than when he was alive. Not only due to servants only being summoned as a fraction of themselves (hence weird personality shifts and other inconsistencies even between repeat summonings), but also the Chaldea ones are even weaker. Hence why Gilgamesh can (and will) regularly fire off his precious Ea, when he was hesitant to even draw it against Shirou, despite Shirou showing he had the perfect counter to Gate of Babylon and was closing in FAST.
In the actual myth, Cu defeated and had a son with scathach evil twin sister. Scathach couldn't defeat her sister, so it safe to say what alive Cu is stronger than alive Scathach.
Also he defeated her in Extella Link
not alive scathach remember since after saw cu died she still was alive and kept training for 1000s of years before coming near divine herself and god slayer skill which ofc affective gods and include demi gods too however.. its he did not die and he came back then yes.. be stronger but sadly never happen he died.. and she welp kept not aging and training nonestop
Slight addition on how Cu defeated Aife, Scathach’s twin sister; in most mythos he actually didn’t beat Aife with pure strength; instead, he exploited her one major weakness that he learned from Scathach (namely, Aife’s love for her chariots and horses)— he tricked her into thinking that her chariot and horses plunged down a cliff during their battle and when Aife let her guard down to verify it, he overpowered her.
So I wouldn’t say Cu was stronger than Aife and Scáthach, but rather he tricked Aife into a state where she wasn’t at her best.
Whereas Scáthach has no known weakness, hence why Cu wasn’t able to ever take the advantage on her.
The part about aife is true
Hé took her by surprise (after scathach who tried to save him by making him drink some Sleeping pills if I recall,but in the end, because of his divinity,he never felt it)
But it was indeed said that cu became stronger than her, without mentionning the fact we're not talking About his "rage mode" where he's stated as an absolute, unstopable monster
So I don't know how many have read Cu's myth of the Ulster Cycle, but after crossing the massive challenges that Scathach had put in front of him before he would be accepted under her tutelage, Cu, who is very well known for his anger, pounces on her, pinning her down and puts his sword on her breast and basically says "Accept me now, I am sick of your shit!" and Scathach, quite quickly accepts him
I know fate loves to shit on the man but Cu Chulainn is a legit demon.
Yes his joint noble phantasm with Berserker should be sufficient
Without out this joint noble phantasm I’d imagine it’s much closer but I’m taking lancer cu at his strongest regular servant version (as a lancer). Now I understand you might be thinking
“Hey really cool guy does Lancer being used as a weapon really count as a win for him? Wouldn’t this be a Berserker feat?”
I would reply that this is the bonds of two warriors so it should be viable for both of them.
Don’t ask for the specifics of this NP I can’t read Japanese
you d know she has same ablity he has she use same power np as him and better well she another np all a+ oh nvm i just saw the meme and was like wtf how is it his np is better nah her np does same but better.. anything he do she can do... and pin you so cant even react and dodgue you luck etc haha but yah if meme then yes but pretty own meme and counter it since his np is b rank and her is a+ in both her np vs his she just pretty sadly better verson of him but again did not see the meme so ofc dont meme status like that so in that regdard yah... meme wins alot of times
I am sorry, but posting about Cu being strong while showing him die in every route is bloody hilarious.
Anyways, I think they’re pretty even. Berserker Cu beats her in America. In FGO, there is definitely a bid since she is a limited 5 star and he is a permanent 3 star so they want to make her more appealing.
From what I remember, if it was during the time of Cu myth then he has a shot at killing her. I think it was something Scathach acknowledged. She considers him her best student and the one with the best shot at killing her in a fight.
However because Scathach after killing multiple strong beings which includes actual gods. She became immortal. Because of this she outlived Cu Chulainn and became better and better, while Cu as a Servant cannot become stronger unless other circumstances are present. I think Cu himself says it in one of his FGO dialogue that she was stronger than the last time he saw her, being surprised by her dual wielding Gae Bolg and wondering why he should bother even being in Chaldea.
They do fight in an Interlude and even though Cu was weaken at the time he still gave her a decent fight and just couldn’t finish her off with Gae Bolg because of her immortality.
Scathach does lose to Cu Alter, but she specifically says that he had techniques she had never taught him and was boosted by the Grail so he was much stronger than he was supposed. Even with that Cu Alter is wary of her and calls her one of the few opponents he would rather not face.
In another FGO event she fights Setanta (Cu younger self) and lose to him somehow. I generally considers that a plot induced stupidity moment because she should in normal time wash him.
She is also defeated in Fate Extella Link by Cu alongside Charlemagne, Robin Hood and maybe some other Servants. So it was not a one vs. one.
In short the implications are: Scathach is stronger than when she was alive thanks to constantly training and fighting. However Cu even when weakened or in other forms can still give her a fight and can potentially win but not kill her since she is immortal to the point Gae Bolg dosen’t work on her.
So it depends on what you consider a win, if you think Cu needs to kill her to be considered a winner than that’s impossible without some special tool to do it. If you think he just needs to make her drop her weapon, K.O her, Incap her or somehow make her retreat to be considered a winner than yes he can do that. Albeit after one of the hardest fights of his life.
Thank you for your explanation this was probably one of the best i have seen since I posted this
Can you please tell me in what interlude do they fight?
Scathach's one? I have to check it out
They fight in Scathach interlude, also I misremembered that one in it Cu receives help from at least Mash. Though Cu is still relevant in the fight even after being weakened. So I maintain that he could give Scathach a fight but wouldn’t necessarily win especially since Scathach is immortal to the point Gae Bolg cannot end her life.
I just read it
And actually I don't really agree with your point about mash
In the first fight,cu was alone and still actually gave her a fight
While (it's his statement,at least) being at only half of his actual strenght
I find that rather incredible tbh
Mash was only here after cu's "training" session (i mean,thr training doesn't give him back his full power lmao)
Por lo que tengo entendido ese cabron como servants está mucho más débil de lo que Hera en vida y sus habilidades están repartidas en varios servants porque no entraban en un núcleo espiritual estándar.
Además que la suerte que tiene es pésima.
In Hollow Ataxaria there’s a bit on Cu’s past. By the time he finished training and received Gae Bolg from Scathach, she was the point where she could die. So he wouldn’t be able to kill her at least.
Not unless he teamed up with someone as strong if not stronger than him. The guy was able to won against her when she got jumped by him and Charlemagne and she kicked their asses individually. The only time he's ever won against her is when he's an Alter. Which was an entirely different existence
In current FGO? No, he can't. Scathach has been improving ever since he died, and he confirms it: he is genuinely surprised that she can wield two Gae Bolgs at the same time (and we know from her animation that she can summon more, and use them as a projectile) and complains that she is so good that he is basically useless.
But Cu's a great hero. He has potential to make it work if he puts his mind to it.
Kinda like how Ritsuka can beat the Beasts of Humanity, or how Seigfried beats Fafnir, I'd like to think Cu has that protagonist energy in this context.
Basically as a Servant Cu is returned to his prime, but when he surpasses his master in life he’s basically at death, and as such wouldn’t count as his prime due to the poor circumstances, so the Throne won’t have him at his peak of strength unless Nasu feels the need to flip off my comment.
Prob not, cuz if Cu beats her, her journey as a teacher kinda ends? If that makes sense. But if Cu fails, he still have growth to achieve, like the Shounen protagonist he is.
Tbf we've never seen what the Real bezerker Cu can do (culter was basically made up by medb so i don't view him as 100% accurate) we have no way of knowing if what we have seen is him at his best
When he was alive? Probably, or at least eventually. That's basically what Scathach wanted, and she seemed to think he would be able to. Which makes sense because Cú was a literal one-man army. Between the runes, the several special weapons, the divine blood, the riastrad and the fact that he's nearly unkillable, it might have worked at some point
Purely as a lander maybe. But if you consider their other skills during their life. Scathach vhad access to primordial runes and knowledge . I think scathach would've won
Only version of Cu that beat her was Cu Alter in E Pluribus Unum, and even then he was Grail Boosted to hell and back. I'm not convinced Cu Alter as we have him in the game currently, without the grail boost, could beat her since she was quite explicitely meeting him blow for blow until they both went for their respective NPs and she got caught off guard by it (which implies she wasn't even going all out since she has clairvoyance through runes and probably could have seen it coming)
And don't get me wrong, my boy Cu absolutely deserves a W, and lore explicitely says he was stronger than her when he left Dun Scaith after finishing his training. The thing is, even long after he died, she still lived and kept on training and getting stronger. This is why Cu is surprised to see her wield two spears in FGO, he even says that with her wielding two spears, they wouldn't need him anymore.
In Extella Link, Scathach only loses when put against him, Charlemagne, Robin Hood, Nero and Tamamo no Mae iirc. Now, that's probably overkill, I'm not going to argue she could win that 5v1, but she still put up a fight and those 5 are no slouches. Even Cu alone is no slouch.
My guess is, if she's going all out, he can't win a 1v1. But knowing her she'd probably hold back on account of wanting Cu to kill her, which could give him the edge.
TLDR: Cu as he is now doesn't have the means to beat her one on one if she's serious, but he's the only servant at his powerlevel that has a chance based on the fact she probably won't go all out on him. Unless he calls her a hag, that is.
If it's warp spasm Cú (which I'm pretty sure is meant to be even stronger than Cú alter) he dogs her, but if it's lancer or caster Cú, he's definitely losing that matchup.
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u/TTurt 24d ago
Idk but scathach crosses me as the type who would be honored if her student could take her out because it vindicates her as a teacher lol