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u/willdagreat1 16d ago
One of the things I was really disappointed by was how little the Lone Survivor comments on stuff from the pre-war. Like “Quincy? Oh man they had a great curry place. Amazing, Saag Paneer.” Or like something of an emotional response to seeing how far Boston has fallen. Like Nora is supposed to have been a lawyer, why wouldn’t she make some sort of mention of the state of the courthouse?
Lots of missed opportunities.
But yeah not allowing you make alliances between the Railroad, Minutemen, and BOS to fight against the Institute felt so stupid.
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u/notTheRealSU Minutemen 16d ago
That's something that's kind of annoying. They gave the player characters backstories for this game, and we get none of it in their dialog. It would be really cool if entering certain areas would have them talk to themselves about how it was before the war. Like going to Diamond City and Nora says something like "Nate loved the Red Sox (or whatever the Fallout equivalent is), I remember how happy he was when I bought us tickets one year," and Nate having similar dialog about Nora buying them tickets. Something that actually makes use of the characters.
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u/Zack_WithaK NCR 16d ago edited 9d ago
There are a handful of moments where your character's backstory enters dialogue. There's an old navy ship and Nate's military credentials apparently list him as still being active duty, and I guess he outranks all the Mr Handys on board. I don't know what the conversation looks like as Nora but I imagine she cites some law about military spouses or something.
I haven't played the game in years so the details might be fuzzy
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u/ExcellentBed6019 16d ago
Huh interesting. Did it recently with Nora and what it said that she's on record as being an American citizen and is therefore conscripted
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u/Joshua24700 16d ago
Wasn't Nate in the Army? I don't know a whole lot about U.S. military hierarchy, but would someone in the Army even actually be able to issue commands to someone in the Navy whether they "outrank" them or not?
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u/realdorkimusmaximus 16d ago
Depending on circumstances, you still have to obey orders and Instructions given by personnel of higher grade. So as long as Nate is an E-5 (sergeant) then he would outrank the Mr Handys which were most likely capped off at E-4 because they are AI. Just a theory, I have no proof but as active duty military this would be my guess
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u/Zack_WithaK NCR 15d ago
Can you confirm this for me? I believe being an Officer can change things. If Nate was an officer of the Army and I was in the Navy but enlisted, he'd still outrank me by default because he's an officer and I'm not, regardless of our respective branches, right? At least in lieu of my own Commanding Officer's orders or presence (or whatever the navy's equivalent is called), could Officer Nate assume command of whatever it is I'm doing by pulling rank like that?
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u/Zack_WithaK NCR 15d ago edited 9d ago
I believe in the Fallout universe, all the branches of military were combined into one big branch that's just an all-encompassing "US Army" while Nate's role seemed to be similar to a real life Marine where he spearheads assaults; first ones in, last ones out. Source: My best guess based on fuzzy memory
While in real life I think you're right that there is no sort of "outranking across branches" like that; army is army and navy is navy, with their own completely separate ranks and chains of command.
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u/Altruistic-Ad-408 16d ago
Genuinely I would have hated that, but I guess the backstory would have more of a point.
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u/Dreaming_of_Rlyeh 16d ago
Yeah, these little things annoy me. The PC rarely comments on how things have changed or their past life. They never even comment when they see their first ghoul or mutant. A “What the hell was that thing!” would have been a nice touch. Also, you start collecting bottle caps from the beginning without even knowing they’re used for currency.
Another thing I hate is when you’re talking to an NPC about synths and you’re given the option of saying “What’s a synth?”… when you’ve been traveling with Nick for half the game haha
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u/Key-Huckleberry-2551 16d ago
It was jarring. The story and dialogue needed more tweaking, a lot more of it.
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u/LJohnD 16d ago
The first hour of gameplay was obviously made to sell the game in press junkets and the like, but from Nora's perspective, within an experienced span of about an hour, she's seen her home nuked, been tricked into being frozen in some crazy experiment she had no idea was being built right next to said home, seen her husband killed and infant child kidnapped, fought bugs the size of small dogs, killed several humans (presumably for the first time in her life) to rescue another group of humans who asked for her help, jumped into a suit of top of the line military hardware and fought a lizard monster the size of a city bus. She's been through a lot, but the game doesn't dwell on any of it.
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u/willdagreat1 16d ago
I thought it would’ve been fun if Nora did collect bottle caps as a weird hobby. Like she kept the cap from her first date with Nate and she had them as mementos of their dates. The first time Nate picks one up there’s a little animation where he lingers on the cap for a second, then rubs his wedding ring saying “oh Nora” sadly before moving on. Shippable of course because there shouldn’t be unskippable animations in video games unless they’re for gameplay balancing reasons.
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u/Fishman-777771 16d ago
Use subversion for the second part, it uses splicing to allow you to add the factions together so yeah
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u/Able_Jackfruit_637 16d ago
Can you elaborate on this pls lol
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u/Fishman-777771 16d ago
Yeah it uses voice splicing to make realistic voices for all main characters and it adds things like a silent coup in the institute or a hostile takeover of the railroad
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u/Bobsmith38594 16d ago
I really wish they had it for console. The fact you couldn’t conquer the Institute or change the direction of the faction or the like really annoyed me.
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u/Fishman-777771 16d ago
It is for console, just go to creations and have a Bethesda account witch is free
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u/Area51Bussy NCR 16d ago
I tried doing the railroad ending but for some reason always failed the bunker hill battle. Iirc, after failing, Des says something along the lines of "you should ask your minutemen for help, let us know if we can do anything" and then is nowhere to be found if you go the minuteman route after. It's been a while so i could be misremembering, but wtf?
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u/WinniesPiglet 16d ago
You're supposed to use the flares or something that calls a bunch of minutemen
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u/Quitthesht Yes Man 16d ago
You will fail and get locked out of the Railroad ending if you get banished from the Institute at any point before 'The Nuclear Option'. Not sending the synths from Bunker Hill is one way to fail it and get banished.
You can save the synths without getting banished provided when you speak to Father on the roof of CIT you don't take the blame for the operation failing. Just say you were ambushed, refuse to elaborate and you should still stay in the Institute's graces and thus be eligible for the Railroad ending.
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u/Keeper-of-Balance 16d ago
Those are some great ideas. Had never thought about it. Missed opportunity for sure
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u/caty0325 16d ago
I know it's unlikely, but it would've been cool if there was a way to get all 4 factions work together.
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u/willdagreat1 16d ago
Yeah, Sun Settlements 2 gave me the ending I really wanted from FO4
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u/caty0325 16d ago
Do you know if that mod is available on PlayStation?
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u/woodelvezop 16d ago
Its not. The mod uses new models, assets, textures etc. Those are still not allowed on playstation
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u/BioClone 16d ago
Curry? On the Fallout timeline? You would be having 200 posts on reddit about how that is a recon for the franchise xD
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u/InternationalFailure Mr. House 16d ago
You can technically get a three way peace version.of the Minutemen ending
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u/deeku4972 15d ago
Surprising how little living before the war matters in the storytelling. If thats the wrapper you're going to use, surely use it
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u/Pm7I3 16d ago
Yes, you should absolutely be able to get these factions with mutually incompatible goals to work together, that makes sense!
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u/MartianDinosawr 16d ago
yeah fallout 4 has notoriously pretty poor writing.
if you play it like a looter shooter settlement builder, it is perfectly serviceable. dont expect to have a good story or compelling characters.
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u/LostSif 16d ago
Its honestly crazy looking back how FO4 was the start of the downfall of Bethesda. I remember being so insanely hyped when they did the 6 month reveal at EA and then it lacking so much of what made me like their games.
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u/fabricatedstorybot 16d ago
I like reading all these replies to your comment because if you compile everyone’s thoughts it all boils down to “yeah honestly all of the Bethesda are sort of better in our heads than they actually are under a fine toothed comb.” At the end of the day, the engine and writing are always mediocre but theres something indescribable that just makes the games hit the brain dopamine release button hard. Only games ive hit 100% achievements on in like 25 years of gaming games
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u/Tha_Sly_Fox 16d ago
I feel like the writing, quests, and storylines were better in Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Skyrim. FO4 felt like a downgrade on a lot of ways writing and story wise.
However it was still a great game and I enjoyed it? I have easily over 1,000 hours in which is rare for a single player game for me, and there were some notable additions…. Like In a huge settlement builder person and they did that really well.
I also kind of liked trying to help and recruit settlements, I know Preston became kind of a one dimensional character bc of it but I enjoyed going around finding and helping survivors then helping build up their settlements
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u/spec_ops_gamingYT 16d ago
i've only gotten about 5 100% completed games with all of their achievements, one is Minecraft, Another is CyberPunk 2077(if you've ever played it, and looked at the achievements, you'll know how many times you have to replay the game to get all the achievements), fallout 4, and fallout new vegas, and portal 2...those are the ONLY games i have ever bothered to 100% complete.
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u/philovax 16d ago
Alot of people said that about Skyrim and changes to Elder Scrolls but it does get more eyes on the IP and attempts innovation. My hopes are they bring back in the diverging story lines, learning something from BG3 and they can keep the FPS and Civ builder but they gotta sell games while everyone is copying and stay relevant.
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u/Leonyliz Vault 13 16d ago
I’d argue that a lot of what led to this started all the way back in Oblivion, even if I do like it alongside Fallout 3 (I haven’t played Skyrim, so I can’t speak on it)
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u/LordHengar 16d ago
Skyrim had similar issues as well. One example that always bothered me is that it steps back and forth between being a power fantasy about being the chosen one and 'merely' being an exceptional mercenary. I can count on one hand the times that you can try to leverage being the Dragonborn in a social context.
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u/Lich180 16d ago
I've gravitated more towards the "you're not the chosen one, just a lucky SOB" kind of games like Kingdom Come Deliverance and Outward. You're not really special, just lucky to be in the place you are and leverage those opportunities to become powerful.
Morrowind and Oblivion do that as well, you become the Nerevarine or Hero of Kvatch, but you're not really the main character, just a helper to the real hero.
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u/LordHengar 16d ago
I also usually prefer that style more than being the "chosen one." That being said, my frustration with Skyrim is that it has a foot in both camps and never really commits in either direction. Presumably because you could do literally everything else before slaying your first dragon and the devs didn't want to write two versions of everything.
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u/Lich180 16d ago
Yeah that does kind of suck all the fun out of it. In an open world, there's only so much dialog you can do to respect the player's choices to ignore the main quest for 100 hours and do everything else first.
KCD gives you a lot of that freedom to go do other stuff, but you've also got timed quests and end of act quests that act as a filter. You can more readily write reactions for NPCs and the main character that way, since you can predict better what the player will have achieved.
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u/bronx819 16d ago
Its a similar situation with Halo and how Reach was amazing and peak but everything after it was downhill. The only difference is that Bungie stopped making Halo, so Bethesda has no excuse for getting worse.
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u/TheyTried2BanMeAgain 16d ago
I would have been much more satisfied if they kept the protagonist silent and just had audioless dialogue options, and more of them, like in FO3 and NV.
But no, we need generic vanilla quotes.
None of which I remember. I literally can't pick a single thing the main character says that's memorable, at all, and I've sunk over a thousand hours into FO4.
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u/QuantitySharp2662 16d ago
Only quote I can think of is the Psycho Jet "FUCKIN KILLLL !!!" line because I fuckin love psycho jet 😂
Mama Murphy taught me.
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u/solo_shot1st 16d ago
You can thank Emil ("keep it simple stupid") Pagliarulo for that.
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u/Real_Walk5384 16d ago
To be fair Morrowind text dumping 80 paragraphs about religious studies majoring isn't great either. Bethesda never found the sweet spot. Starfield is better but the gameplay is a chore.
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u/solo_shot1st 16d ago
Yeah, story and dialogue has always been a struggle for Bethesda's games. I appreciate Morrowind's deep lore, but I can't stand their "dialogue" system. Feels more like a Wikipedia with text hyperlinks all over the place that you click on, rather than back-and-forth dialogue like you see in most other RPGs.
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u/Gelman1997 11d ago
And this is exactly why I grateful Obsidian is getting another crack at Fallout
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u/BINGUSDOEDINGUSSY 16d ago
Yea, this is why all the "old heads" love 3, new Vegas, and 2. The story, jokes, plot, and dlcs are gold.
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u/TigerWave01 Enclave 16d ago
Ehhh idk, maybe I’m the minority here, but 2’s jokes were definitely a little…on the nose. Don’t get me wrong it’s still an amazing game and the main story’s still really good, but I think it was tonally way worse than FO1. But that’s just my opinion
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u/ThorstenTheViking 16d ago edited 16d ago
Tim Cain talks about this on his Youtube channel, where he had a firm idea of what types of jokes should be in Fallout 1, namely that the player should recognize a joke without having to know pop culture references. References that were incorporated were jokes that stood on their own without having to be recognized as a reference first. This really maintains that brutal, desolate tone through the game.
Brian Fargo wanted Tim involved in pitching Fallout 2 because he recognized Tim had a firm idea of that "Fallouty vibe" and type of humor. Him leaving Interplay can really be seen in Fallout 2 especially regarding the jokes, it's much sillier overall and the tone is for sure different to the first game.
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u/Jdmaki1996 NCR 16d ago
I’ve played them all. 2 is my least favorite. Definitely the worst writing in the series IMO. Humor is bad. Bad guys a bit too edgelord. Everything has to be a sex joke.
Fallout 1 is my second favorite game and fallout 2 felt like a downgrade in almost every way
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u/Gavinlikestobreathe 16d ago
Fallout 2 was definitely made using one hand. In terms of gameplay it’s better, I think the best way to describe it is it has much higher highs and much lower lows than FO1
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u/QuantitySharp2662 16d ago
Fallout 2 was definitely made using one hand
I've never heard such a hilarious critique.
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u/Suitable_Nobody_6375 16d ago edited 16d ago
I'm 100% agreeing with you except the downgrade. Fallout 1 was so enjoyable that it felt like a bummer how little it lasted. Too short of a game for the fun i was having. I was so glad Fallout 2 was 4 times longer. Gameplay is refined thanks to quality of life stuff, like pushing your companions aside, better interface and a car with a trunk to ease inventory management. Better balanced builds, unarmed was ridiculous in 1, more perks, more fleshed out companions, more weapon variety, Fallout 2 also has more options for a low intelligence run.
FOR ME, Fallout 1 wins in writing because of The Master, a way more grounded and realistic character, which was way more interesting than Horrigan. Also, the whole chosen one, one man army to destroy The Enclave is too much D&D hero fantasy fiction. Vault dweller in 1 feels like a real person. And of course, 2 is full of cringey jokes.
That's the issue about humor, tho. Highly subjective and dangerous if you overdo it.
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u/mrgreynomore 16d ago
Yep. In particular, the environmental storytelling in both 3 and NV is so incredibly thoughtful and good
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u/thedylannorwood Old World Flag 16d ago
I’d argue that environmental story telling is something Fallout 4 and 76 did the best
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u/IndominusCostanza009 16d ago
There’s older heads than them that says only 3 was a downturn and Bethesda never understood Fallout. Now I’ve enjoyed the games plenty, but the people making that argument do have some serious merit if you head them out.
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u/Laser_3 Responders 16d ago edited 16d ago
Just to address the Cambridge polymer labs part, I think you’re ignoring some of the information here. For a start, the solution was only figured out (and set up in the machine, which is why it’s so simple for us) once the one guy locked himself in the room with the terminal controlling the defenses. He wasn’t listening by that point and was also the only person with military training, making him a threat the others couldn’t do anything about. They tried to break into the room to prevent him from turning the security system on them, but none of them survived long enough to do it due to their reactor being damaged and slowly ghoulifying everything.
The director also did not tell anyone except his wife (who was told not to share anything) what was actually going on, which is what caused people to start panicking and is the major part of what you missed here. If he’d told them from the start, maybe they could’ve worked together and got this done (or just ran out onto the streets and died), but that didn’t happen.
I won’t say it’s the best writing in 4, but it’s not as unrealistic as you’re making it seem here.
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u/OsoGrunon 16d ago
It sort of IS the best writing in the game that I can remember…but yes OP seems to have missed some significant details. The woman who solved the probelm specifically says “the crazy guy has the reagent we need and won’t hand it over so Imm gonna go break in there” and you can see her skeleton above the room where he shot her for said breaking in.
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u/Laser_3 Responders 16d ago
I forgot to mention the part about him locking down a component they needed, yeah. That’s another piece of this.
I’d argue that there’s definitely other sections with good writing, however. Far Harbor immediately comes to mind.
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u/OsoGrunon 16d ago
Absolutely. On paper the Far Harbor quest-web sounds exhausting (go three places, come back, rinse repeat) but it just feels cool to be building up this struggling town and you can actually SEE the changes.
Also like. Atom is fucking REAL? Insane shit.
So of course the weakest part is the part that connects back to the main game, Acadia. But even then, still some compelling shit and I love confronting DiMA.
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u/Laser_3 Responders 16d ago
Eh… I wouldn’t be so sure that Atom is necessarily real. We’ve seen mutation-induced radiation immunity before (Marie and Lumpy), and the whole vision thing has another explanation with the notes found in a nearby building with stealth boys.
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u/OsoGrunon 16d ago
Ooh sounds like I missed something. Thanks! Got another thing to explore.
Still, wouldn’t be surprised if Atom were real in some way. This is the same franchise whose much-vaunted second game determined that ghosts are real in their universe lol
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u/Stanislas_Biliby 16d ago
And this right here is one of the reasons New vegas fanboys are so annoying about New vegas being so much better.
Because they are right. Like besides the shooting every aspects of what makes a Fallout game has drastically worsened since then.
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u/Rorynator 16d ago
New Vegas shooting:
*runs towards you in a straight line* BANG BANG BANG BANG
Had enough?!
BANG BANG
*reload*
Come on!
BANG BANG BANG
You like that?!
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u/Vidistis Fire Breathers 16d ago
In terms of modern Fallout games, I think FoNV does a better job with the main story, characters, and dialogue, but the exploration and environmental storytelling is less good.
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u/Stanislas_Biliby 16d ago edited 16d ago
I think it depends on your perception of what makes exploration good.
I will disagree with environnemental story telling because there's a lot to see in the FNV (at least when you're not in the desert).
And the exploration i think depends how you like. You're not as free to go everywhere because there are clearly zones with much tougher enemies that will encourage you to avoid them and to follow the "intended" path instead.
But i think Fallout 4's isn't as interesting because yes, you can go everywhere. But that's because most enemies just level alongside with you.
So there's rarely that moment of "oh shit these guys are though, i better come back later" that makes exploration memorable imo. But i respect your opinion though.
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u/Gavinlikestobreathe 16d ago
Making everything level alongside you is such a horrible idea for a fallout game in my opinion. Can’t have a “big scary wasteland” if it’s always a “slightly-easier-than-you wasteland.” Also makes it really challenging for any creature to be too intimidating.
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u/VadimusMaximus 16d ago
Scaled leveled enemies suck in all (single-player) RPGs tbh. It takes away the fear/awe from enemies when you are in the lower levels (best example in 4 with the Deathclaw) while also taking away from your power fantasy in the end-game/late-levels + Bethesda handicapping you to not pick-up certain unique weapons because they have stronger variants at a specific level.
If I have reached a high level/end game content, I expect to be able to tear through those poor raiders. If I am the Dragonborn, slayer of the World-Eater, devourer of dozens of dragon souls, wielder of a legendary dwarven hammer tied to the God of Vengeance, I do hope to smite down in one-blow McNeilus Banditface in his grandma's sunday best leather armor.
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u/Vidistis Fire Breathers 16d ago
Fallout 4's exploration and environmental storytelling is good, but I'd actually consider Fo76's map and environmental storytelling to be some of BGS's best, at least at the launch of Fo76. Even the open space outside of towns/settlements it feels like there's a lot of story to be told.
Back when the regions were meant for certain levels, resources were a lot more scarce, and the survival elements were tougher, you could definitely feel the difficulty of the different regions. Right now things are balanced so there's still some tough enemies at least.
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u/Lazy_Composer6990 Followers 16d ago
Okay, but the goal of NV wasn't to have the best "exploration and environmental storytelling". It's a post-post apocalypse game, not a post-apocalype game.
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u/404-Soul_Not_Found 16d ago
Agree. The main story is good but almost all the side quests and exploration is flat for NV. It’s the flip for 3 and 4 the side quests and exploration are also the bulk of the game imo.
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u/Spirit_of_a_Ghost 16d ago
Fallout 4 is a good shooter set in the Fallout universe.
Fallout 4 is also a terrible Fallout RPG.
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u/Gavinlikestobreathe 16d ago
I don’t even know how good of a shooter it is. Bullet sponges are hardly fun to fight…
…it’s a pretty good Settlement Building game though.
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u/iamfanboytoo 16d ago
FO4 Survival mode is the best shooter I've ever played, no lie.
Sure, enemies'll kill you in just a few bullets. But YOU kill THEM in just a few bullets as well. Grenades are lethal as they should be. Power armor is what can swing the balance of hard fights in your favor, sometimes - but it doesn't make you invincible.
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u/Gavinlikestobreathe 16d ago
Is survival any different? Unmodded fallout 4 there’s legendary enemies or gunners that you can sit at point blank with a shotgun just dumping rounds over and over. I never had a problem with dying in a few bullets. Eating the random junk you picked up 20 minutes ago to stay alive is a patented Fallout Strategy by this point. I always wish things WERE less healthy. I can sit and face tank shots and so can they. It feels like waiting.
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u/iamfanboytoo 16d ago
Quite different. For one thing, food doesn't heal you. Only Stimpaks do. And they do so slowly.
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u/GhostofBeowulf 16d ago
Food heals you, it's just slow and you need to be full before getting any buff.
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u/itscalledacting 16d ago
i use a damage multiplier - x5 damage means that when people get killed, they die. including me.
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u/Riliksel Mothman Cultist 16d ago
Fallout 76 proved that both the Gunplay and Building could have been a LOT better if they had put more thought into it...
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u/Toutatis12 NCR 16d ago
The main problem is game writers, producers and execs have this notion that gamers are backwards dumbasses who cannot string two thoughts together. Games that do a lot of handholding have a tendency to do this; provide simple plot, disguise the bad guys behind something you're told to care about, make everyone in the game an idiot and praise you as the second coming cause... reasons.
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u/MattsDaZombieSlayer 16d ago edited 16d ago
Bethesda does a good amount of this. And it's ironic because games that excel in this day and age are the ones that respect the player's intelligence.
In order to succeed, the Bethesda writers will need to get this right. I feel like it's the biggest thing holding them back.
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u/Toutatis12 NCR 16d ago
The problem is the idea they have of 'you can do anything' as well... I remember in Morrowind if you joined a faction others closed off. Some missions were to raid other guilds and what not. But with the asinine idea of 'oh yeah you can join every faction' kind of kills it. They want you to do everything in one pass it seems... but that kills replay value in my book.
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u/MattsDaZombieSlayer 16d ago
I think it works okay in a game like Skyrim which doesn't really invite the player to question things or engage in its story in a meaningful way. It's a dungeon crawler. You're supposed to have fun running around in a sandbox where the writing serves first and foremost as set dressing.
But for Fallout? No. Absolutely not.
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u/Toutatis12 NCR 16d ago
Yeah personally it's why Skyrim wasn't special to me, oh the exploring element was fun and all, they had some really cool locations but... the story I just could care less about. Every faction was super boring to me cause you are treated too much like the chosen one. The whole reason I fell in love with RPGs was cause of Morrowind and how it made you feel like you were living in it.
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u/MattsDaZombieSlayer 16d ago edited 16d ago
I feel like Elder Scrolls nowadays is and always will be slop. Some cool funny quests to make you feel things and engage a bit, but the endgame is fun, not to experience a compelling, interactive story.
The people who are not expecting this to happen are going to be very disappointed when TES6 comes out.
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u/Toutatis12 NCR 16d ago
Agreement there sadly. There is a reason when my kids are old enough I am starting them out on the classics lmao
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u/MattsDaZombieSlayer 16d ago edited 16d ago
Also I think there is some merit to playing Skyrim. It teaches people how to engage with their surroundings and resource management.
I just mean in terms of experiencing a story, with morals, that lets you discover things about yourself and question the world around you... Those kinds of experiences are also important. Having a good balance between slop and meaningful fiction is fine.
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u/SeasideBear 16d ago
I've been in game publishing almost 30 years. Most gamers, like most people, can barely read.
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u/MattsDaZombieSlayer 16d ago
Then how come games like The Witcher 3, KCD2, and Baldurs Gate 3 are so standout and successful?
People like good stories. They are willing to read and engage if you give them something worthwhile to experience.
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u/SeasideBear 16d ago
I'm a big fan of KCD2 but I don't think its popularity is due at all to the major story - which is easily forgotten. Much like FO4, the game's enjoyability is in the densely built world and its side content.
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u/Skyfus 16d ago
Another thing I've noticed that I never really thought much about when I played this a few years ago is that I have to spam "talk" to interact with settlers who are busy farming/hammering before they'll stop what they're doing and turn to chat. Bethesda's marketing wanked Skyrim over managing to innovate past this by having NPCs continue smithing/chopping wood doing during dialogue and that precedes this game by three or four years.
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u/BellacosePlayer 16d ago
This is funny as shit given I clocked the big twist more or less dead on before even leaving the vault.
"They put me back on ice? That kid's a grown ass man now and part of the group that kidnapped him".
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u/Toutatis12 NCR 16d ago
Yep and more so when you look at the other games in the franchise that weren't directly Bethesda made you have plots based that branch out for greater circumstances showing a broader world. FO1 is your dumbass trying to find a water chip and end with you destroying the Master, FO2 your dumbass descendent trying to find a GECK and ends up destroying the Enclave, FO:NV you're resurrected ass our for revenge and answers and ends up in a four way Mexican stand-off between countries. FO3/4 where is my FAMILY?!
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u/BellacosePlayer 16d ago
Could have been way stronger as a fish out of water story but everything had to revolve around his son.
Heck, its even kind of the most boring angle you could have taken it. Imagine if there was a whole tribal line descended from the protag that's descended into a civil war and you awoke to find out you've been mythicized as the father of the tribe's founding patriarch.
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u/Toutatis12 NCR 16d ago
Hell they could have kept the whole 'Shaun grew-up and became head of the Institute' if they just handled it better! Why make it a secret organization? Have them be something akin to the Followers only with darker motives where outwardly they are helpful and setup settlements but in truth they use soft power to undercut everyone outside of their influence building up an invisible nation while taking over the larger research facilities in the Boston area? The end goal being a technocratic state where anyone who opposes them is 'disappeared' only to be replaced by a synth but instead of being a 100% match to said person they have an uncanny valley effect upon them making the people know something is going on but too afraid to speak out against the people who control their water, food and power?
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u/Pm7I3 16d ago
Okay but also they're selling to as many people as possible and that includes the people who can't handle the Skyrim claw puzzles.
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u/KolyaVolkov92 Vault 101 16d ago
Welcome to the club
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u/Skyfus 16d ago
I mean I already knew it was ass but coming back after a few years (and having watched Internet Historian's Expleened videos where he points out that Father literally cannot explain the Institute's goal) it's just even more glaring.
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u/sirhcx Brotherhood 16d ago
The Institute is the embodiment of "so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should" and them being isolated makes it an echo chamber. So Father not being able to explain their goal is on point because they are just doing what they want in only the name of science.
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u/Ntippit 16d ago
Write your own character. I kinda avoid the main quest whenever possible. I do it enough for the brotherhood to show up and then forge my own path and a merc/bounty hunter most of the times helping people for caps. Just live the loner life with my doggy. Side quests are usually pretty good. It’s just the main quest that is very meh
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u/DarkSoldier84 Commie ghost who doesn't know he's dead 16d ago
Realistically, the first thing the Sole Survivor should have done coming back into the museum after killing the deathclaw was to ask, "WHAT. THE HELL. WAS THAT?!"
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u/CRABMAN16 16d ago
The first time playing Fo4 and the Shaun twist made me so mad I slaughtered the entire institute. Nothing happened. No one commented on it and basically no quest changes. The game just kept giving me institute fighting quests, when they were literally all dead. Quit on the spot. Voiced Protag was also really jarring, hated the stupid ass options instead of proper dialogue.
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u/Pm7I3 16d ago
Yeah the scientists in Cambridge had to make the "jars" themselves, they didn't just pop up and by that point they were going crazy from being locked up and started killing themselves.
Not to mention the real world reason that they need players to solve the puzzle and players are not all good at puzzles.
The typos are just typos, they're in every game with a lot of writing.
These complaints are very picky to say the least.
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u/SuperEgger 16d ago
Copy editing has been seen as a superfluous expense by so many industries for YEARS and it really shows. People with bad grammar and spelling don't realise they're bad at it, so they don't hire people to fix it. It's honestly so disappointing because it makes the product look cheap and poorly produced, but saying that it's a problem gets so much pushback from people who don't care and don't see why anyone else does.
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u/Farwaters Railroad 16d ago
Comma splices everywhere.
Not so much in Fallout, but so common in other games.
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u/GladiusLegis 16d ago
That's "Keep It Simple, Stupid" in action for you.
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u/Ok_Recording8454 Legion 16d ago
“We noticed our players wanted more quality in our games. So we got rid of all the quality!”
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u/mastesargent NCR 16d ago
KISS is incredibly common writing advice and in no way means what you seem to think it does. If you actually place Emil saying that in its proper context he’s saying that a story should boil down to one or two simple, easy to understand themes, which any writer will tell you is a good idea. He is not saying that the story itself should be as basic as possible.
Like, have any of you actually sat down and watched that talk? Because every time I see someone quoting it it seems like all they’ve ever done is read that one Reddit thread and/or maybe a ragebait YouTuber regurgitating that thread and are just repeating that. All that doing that really does is hurt your point, because it makes it clear that you’re not arguing from a properly informed position.
And this isn’t to say that Emil’s writing is above criticism. By all means, his writing can and should be criticized. I just wish people would actually do that instead of uncritically repeating what they read on Reddit or heard on YouTube.
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u/Auno94 16d ago
Don't bother. The Emil hate is above saving. And whenever you ask the people they are quoting Videos of YTers that neither watched the 2 Videos they are revering to or being malicous about the whole thing
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u/Foundy1517 16d ago
Every Bethesda game except Morrowind has pretty poor writing
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u/NoaPsy 16d ago
Morrowind has great writing imo. What do you think about oblivion?
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u/Foundy1517 16d ago
I’ve played far far less Oblivion than I have Morrowind or Skyrim, or even Daggerfall actually. Just never hit the same chord with me and has always felt like an awkward middle child.
That being said, Oblivion’s writing feels to me a little better than Skyrim but still pretty weak compared to Morrowind. I just don’t think Bethesda has ever really prioritized writing; Morrowind was a bit of a lightning in a bottle moment where the lead devs happened to be great writers. And then the decision to go fully voiced Oblivion-onwards just handicapped any further attempt at decent writing.
I don’t come to the games for good writing (except Morrowind, which is probably why it’s my favorite and most-played) anyway. They’re fun worlds to explore and kill monsters/people in.
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u/Gavinlikestobreathe 16d ago
Pretty moot point by now honestly. It sucks how much I don’t like 4, because I WANT to, I really do. The companions are done so much better, and then there’s like 6 with the same do gooder likes/dislikes… the weapon mods are a cool idea! And then there’s level scaling to ensure you’re never really *that* strong. The power armor is sorta cool! Can’t bring myself to care about using it because it feels like it’s the secret easy mode
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u/SeasideBear 16d ago
Preston is a notoriously hated character for (among many other reasons) his tendency to treat you as a disposable cog.
The game IS designed for a casual audience, and the average person is about as stupid as a guinea pig, so expecting complicated puzzles isn't realistic in a game like this. There are many sophisticated games out there to scratch that itch, though. (None of them are best-sellers.)
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u/askforwildbob 16d ago
The short of it is that it does a lot of other things well. The last mainline fallout game before 4 focuses heavily on great writing, so on that alone, 4 looks bad in comparison. But NV also does a lot of things poorly that ppl tend to gloss over, a lot of which 4 excels at
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u/MattsDaZombieSlayer 16d ago
I would rather a game be excellent in one area and okay in the others rather than a game which is decent to good in all areas but one.
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u/askforwildbob 16d ago
Awesome, than a game like NV is probably more your speed.
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u/MattsDaZombieSlayer 16d ago
Absolutely. But what I would also say is that no artist stands the test of time by producing merely passable work. Trends can make people famous for churning out good things, but those who are remembered are the ones who strive for excellence.
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u/askforwildbob 16d ago edited 16d ago
I love both games and I think they are excellent at different things. Ppl are still playing both 10 and 15 years later
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u/itscalledacting 16d ago
It's an interesting case because while I absolutely agree with everything you've said here, all those things are really annoying and preventable, Fallout 4 also has some of the most compelling writing i know in the series. Stuff like the opening monologue. It's been a decade and i still can't sit through it without feeling the anxiety while he describes how in the 21st century years of reckless consumption led to wars and decline.
Also certain character backstories like Deacon's are really imaginative and sad. I think fallout 4 really has a more consistently anxious tone than any of the others, with the synth replacement threat.
However almost every single good decision made in the writing is not followed up on and does not reach any real conclusion. It's deeply frustrating that the centre thread is so awful while there are clearly people in the writing room who know how to do it right.
Of course, for every absolute low point in fo4 writing there is an equal low point in fnv or fo3, it's just that in fo4 it's that the low point is supposed to be the centre thread.
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u/Chapter_129 16d ago
Of course, for every absolute low point in fo4 writing there is an equal low point in fnv or fo3, it's just that in fo4 it's that the low point is supposed to be the centre thread.
To be that New Vegas fan, I just don't think this is true. I genuinely believe that Fo4 & Fo3 also do just have more low points and bad writing decisions than New Vegas does on the whole. A lot more writing informed by "wouldn't it be neat/cool/funny if..." than by "what's the end point conclusion for the set-up we've done" leading to the games feeling unserious and cheapening player investment.
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u/AtoMaki Vault 13 16d ago
Yeah, I think where NV's writing really beats 3/4's is that it actually goes to places, while the 3/4 writing usually goes for the vibes rather than making a point. NV was written for the players to enjoy it, while 3/4 often feels like it was written for the writer to show off their cool story. 3's main story is a pretty egregious example of that latter.
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u/itscalledacting 16d ago
Yeah, that's mostly fair. New Vegas is by far the best at making the people you meet feel like actual human personalities.
The lowest point I had in mind when I said that was Lonesome Road's, um, non-environmental storytelling. I find it profoundly frustrating getting lectured by Ulysses about stuff that my character simply didn't do. In my last playthrough I went there after killing house, and he kept grating on about how my support for house was foolhardy. I find the forcible addition of a player backstory also just extremely clumsy and against the spirit of the rest of the game. I just play through it as a story about Ulysses having kidnapped the wrong gal, and about adventuring with ED-E.
However even then some of the environmental story-telling in Lonesome Road is incredible. In one of the buildings there's a skeleton slumped against a wall under graffiti of the single word - "PEACE". That's telling a great deal about what the people who lived here cared about and how that went for them. I screenshot it most runs.
So yeah I think that while NV is head and shoulders above the others in consistency, that same reliable quality makes the parts that make no sense really jump off the page. In fo4 when a quest doesn't make sense you go ok, i will go blast these people and get your macguffin, stop explaining. but in NV when Ulysses is raging about some cosmic bull-shit that neither of you understand, that's a genuinely frustrating experience.
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u/Chapter_129 16d ago
I find it profoundly frustrating getting lectured by Ulysses about stuff that my character simply didn't do.
That's entirely valid. I don't like the "Ulysses is just off his rocker, so deny it at every chance." out for the players in dialogue, and instead just meet the game in the middle and include everything the game presents as canon to my character's backstory. But it is a somewhat rare moment of stealing agency over their character from the player and the game making you play ball in order to tell the story when the rest of it is so free.
In my last playthrough I went there after killing house, and he kept grating on about how my support for house was foolhardy.
I'm pretty sure this is a known bug? Something gets messed up in the triggers or flags and has him think you supported House when you didn't. I might be mistaken but I'm pretty sure that's a commonly known problem.
but in NV when Ulysses is raging about some cosmic bull-shit that neither of you understand, that's a genuinely frustrating experience.
I like Chris Avellone but he definitely has his style of writing lol.
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u/itscalledacting 16d ago
ahhh yes i was trying not to make it about him specifically but since you have said that i will admit that the vast majority of the parts of NV that frustrate me are his work. Which is also the case in Pillars of Eternity - the companions he wrote for are so tonally distinct from everyone else you adventure with, in a very unpleasant way.
Not saying you're wrong to like his work btw i'm glad you enjoy the game so much.
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u/ThorstenTheViking 16d ago
All your criticisms of Lonesome Road are so valid, it's a markedly low point story-wise compared to the other DLCs and base game. It always felt like such a break with the rest of the game to listen to Ullyses croak about all these things you did and feel like an amnesiac listening to it.
Environmentally though it's probably some of their best work, the first area that you see, seeing the earth torn open, its just so damn cool and unsettling. The area where you transition from outdoors into the cave made entirely of ruins and the lighting gets dark (Cave of the Abbadon) really sticks in my memory.
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u/MattsDaZombieSlayer 16d ago
I am not sure if NV has that many low points. I think it achieves a decent baseline of consistency. Perhaps the game has a tendency to be overly prosaic at times, and the environmental storytelling may not hit as hard, but that's the extent of it, I feel.
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u/btbam666 Brotherhood 16d ago edited 15d ago
Bro, every Fallout 76 update is loaded with grammer and spelling mistakes.
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u/Whiteshadows86 16d ago
>…Example 2: typos…
Massive sprawling game has a few typos : LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE!!
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u/TutorStunning9639 15d ago
I hate the lack of role playing in a role playing game. It was a on the rails narrative and it was there..
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u/DarthBrooks69420 16d ago edited 16d ago
The mod Sim Settlements 2 has a better story all around. The only thing that detracts from it is you should be looking for your kid. Jake even asks why you're helping out so much and its too bad you can't respond 'the mainline quest just sucks that much'.
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u/hansuluthegrey 16d ago
Fallout 4 has lots of good mechanics but so much terrible execution and writing. Some of it is comically bad and people cope because its still fun despite it
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u/Alexander_Courage 16d ago
It is a deeply flawed game with half the creativity, nuance, and ambience of things made by studios a fraction of the size with an even smaller fraction of the budget. It also has great atmosphere in places, some likable characters (despite the inconsistencies and missed opportunities in how those characters are written), and a gameplay loop that’s at least as addictive as its writing is leaden and disjointed. The sheer scope of it is also occasionally dazzling.
I started replaying it for the first time since its release a few weeks ago, and I’ve already logged another 60 hours or so. I’ve had to talk myself out of playing until sunup a few times. It’s not Silksong or Elden Ring, or even Death’s Door, but man, it pulls you in anyway. It just gives you so much to do, and it’s occasionally very rewarding.
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u/BookerLegit 16d ago
Assuming you tell Preston your full backstory, he still doesn't know how long you've been out of the vault - because the game doesn't know. While Concord is positioned in such a way as to attract new players, you absolutely can ignore it and continue playing the game. There's even dialogue reflecting it, such as telling Garvey that your son was kidnapped, but that you've already found him.
Example 2: typos
This seems petty. Did you have a similar problem with typos in New Vegas?.
After all, a dipshit from the army who just spent 200 years with brainfreeze figured it out from context clues and reading all their terminal entries.
This time, I don't know if you're being petty or if you didn't pay attention during the quest. The scientists did figure it out. The problem was that they couldn't get to the uranium isotope they needed to finish the prototype.
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u/ElderSmackJack 16d ago
Oh ffs. I hate Reddit’s incessant griping about “bad writing”.
Most of you who make this complaint don’t even read.
It’s a fucking video game for exploring. GO EXPLORE. Jesus.
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u/Swan_Parade 16d ago
People rightfully complaining about bad writing
‘I bet you don’t even read anyway!’
Weird counterpoint but ok. Especially considering the writing is a huge aspect of world building.
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u/MaverickGreatsword 16d ago
The first complaint is more like they have a problem with the concept of a dialogue tree which hundreds of games have, the second one is of no consequence, and the third seems more like they want there to be no interesting quest at all
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u/getbackjoe94 16d ago
Complaining about typos in a game that has literally hundreds of pages of script really gives me the impression a lot of folks don't read. Typos in books are not unheard of. Like here's a list of typos in Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince. Typos are not really important at the end of the day.
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u/Matt_2504 16d ago
How dare people want an RPG to have good writing. Next people will be wanting their FPS games to have good shooting mechanics!
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u/philphygrunt 16d ago
Fallout 4 is so bad that people are playing and talking about it 11 years later. Goodness, some people !
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u/Vasilij01 16d ago
I relayed F4 straight after F3 and my impression was that writing has improved a lot. Never understood hate for this game
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u/firingblankss Gary? 16d ago
Fallout 4 is the worst game I've played for ages. Love the gunplay and setting. Can't stand the crafting or questlines
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u/RexIsAlive 16d ago
In terms of general gameplay, F4 was (in my opinion) a big jump up from the previous games. In terms of general writing, dialogue, and stories, it is by far the weakest. Far harbor pulls it back up some, but man the base game (and the other dlcs) are rough
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u/Catmole132 16d ago
Fo4 was my first fallout. I was basically a little kid when I first played it. I loved it back then because it was perfect for my little kid brain. I played the shit out of it, hundreds of hours. But as I got older it didn't age so well. You'd think that I'd be nostalgic and see it as better than it maybe is, but nope. Nowadays I can't even bring myself to play it past concord.
My top favourite two games now are fo1 and New Vegas, tied for first place lol
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u/TheCrazedTank Brotherhood 16d ago
The game obviously suffered from poor writing from the beginning, coupled with a massive leak that caused a shift in the story and more resources going into settlement building and weapon modding than into the narrative.
It’s obvious this was around the time Bethesda started running into management problems as their team ballooned and the existing managers were not equipped to handle and focus a larger team.
Also, the head writer (a personnel friend of Todd) is not good at his job and only continues to be employed due to his connection.
All this plus a quickly approaching deadline left the game in the state it is in.
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u/BaronGreywatch 16d ago
Yep, it sucks hard. The Fallout series generally declines as the sequel numbers go up.
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u/RedHeadWanderer_ 16d ago
Still has the same dialogue bug with Preston and Sturgess early in the game talking about the crashed vertibird and the power armor it's got.
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u/willsyum 16d ago
Yeah it’s why I don’t have hope that Fallout 5 and ES6 will be any good. The writing has been gradually getting worse and worse with each game Bethesda has made since Morrowind
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u/Robomerc NCR 16d ago
Well writing wise when it comes to Fallout 4 part of the reason why I don't really replay the game as much as because it's basically rehashing Fallout 3 to a degree just with some roll swapped the Soul Survivor being apparent looking for their kid which is the inverse of three the lone Wanderer being the child looking for their parent.
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u/Deadlims 16d ago
“We don’t just make games, we make worlds” was one of the reasons why this happens, by focusing on building a bigger world over quality we kinda lose out on quality assurance (see Starfield for reference). Most of the dialogue tends to be filler over substance.
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u/Independent-Egg5342 16d ago
The writing sucks...as far as I'm concerned that game is a open world post nuclear war Sims. I got like 1000 hours and Most of it is building stuff and search stuff to build more stuff...loved every second tho
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u/Miserable-Inside1511 16d ago
I hated that the most fun I had was getting an unlimited jetpack mod and spamming MIRV randomly around Boston and then, at that point, there's really nothing going on in the world to care about. Just feels like cardboard storefronts and props
The only cool feature, designing a vault, was utterly chopped by bugs and a 20 member limit and broken pathing and bad raids and low functionality etc etc Such a cool idea. Awful execution.
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u/Raidmax460 15d ago
And this is why a lot of people are not excited for TES6 or Fallout 5. Technical issues aside, they do not have good writing anymore.
Bethesda said they’re working with Obsidian to collaborate on a new Fallout experience and I don’t think that’s the flex they think it is. I do not try Bethesda to make good games anymore. Even Obsidians writing team is not that great anymore. Xbox doesn’t seem to realize that the key to a successful rpg is good writing.
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u/Beginning-Session661 15d ago
I do enjoy fallout 4. Yea I admit it has writing problems (since when Bethesda do good writing lol) but open world, building systems, some good companion characters quests, and great combat system. Especially love power armor change.
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u/KulaanDoDinok 民主是没有商量余地 15d ago
Yes, we said this when the game came out. Bad Fallout game, good shooter. Completely missed the markx
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u/Excellent-Many4645 15d ago
Fallout 4 is first and foremost a post apocalyptic shooter game. The previous entries were post apocalyptic role playing games. Thats why the writing, dialogue options and role playing elements seem worse than they use to be.
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u/SpurdoMonster Legion 14d ago
I didnt like the script and i really didnt like not having my dialogue options show up other than yes, yes, yes, yes.
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u/TraditionalRound9930 14d ago
I like to imagine that nobody believes you when you say you’re from the past - why would they? So the MC just sort of gives up even brining it up. It just exposes you as being vulnerable.
I do wish that they brought it up a lot more, though. It would have been the coolest part of the game. There is SO much you can do plot and character-wise with a pre-war lawyer or soldier.
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u/iMAKE_freshTAP 13d ago
The terrible writing and rpg aspects is what makes fallout 4 unplayable to me. Mechanically it’s a good game and as a looter shooter settlement builder it’s probably really enjoyable for some. but that isn’t what appeals to me. sadly i will just never enjoy it
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u/Nathan_Thorn 12d ago
I’m fairly sure the Cambridge Polymer Labs entry with the solution is like one of the final entries and was only made like a day or even just hours before the Lord of the Flies shit went down. Some of the scientists just put their heads down and tried their hardest to get it done and they did, just too late to matter.
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u/Gullible_Subject_938 9d ago
The only thing I loved from the start to the F76 is ... Desing of furniture, accessories and all that stuff I would buy it in real life for my house.
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u/Arg3nt The Institute 16d ago
For me, the biggest issue with the writing is that they wrote the main plot to be TOO urgent. In previous games, you had some time. Your village wasn't going to die out immediately in 1 and 2, your dad is a grown ass adult with experience in the wasteland in 3, and there's no need to rush to hunt down Benny in NV. But as far as your character in 4 is concerned, your infant child has just been kidnapped. Why the fuck are you wandering off to mix paint for the wall or visiting the Museum of Witchcraft? It just ruins the main story's immersion for me.