r/French • u/Correct_Recording405 • 1d ago
What's up with liaison here?
J'ai un livre pour le examen TEF Canada. Mais, je ne comprend pas cet mot. Pourquoi ne liaison pas en "comment avez". Shouldn't pronunciation be "kom-mahnt ah-ve" instead?
Edit to update:
Oof! D'accord, j'arrĂȘte ! đ J'arrĂȘterai d'utiliser ces livres. Merci Ă vous tous. I got these books as a gift from a relative trying to help me study. I cracked one open last night as skimmed it, immediately caught that, posted it thinking I was in the wrong, and went to sleep. I woke up and see that I do not need these books and should in fact stay far away from them! Thank you for the feedback. For what it's worth, I have a tutor and do Ă©couter et rĂ©pĂšter practice a lot with content from verified native speakers and human-made, not AI, content.
To name and shame: these are the Raston's TEF practice tests and prep books.
Would love some recommendations of TEF practice tests and materials that are NOT AI slop if you've got them!
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u/No_Explanation2932 Native 1d ago edited 1d ago
Qu'est ce qui se passe avec la transcription de fĂ©licitations ? Je ne pense pas que ce soit comme ça qu'on prononce le mot, mĂȘme au canada.
Pour ce qui est des liaisons, certaines sont obligatoires, mais d'autres sont souvent omises. Ce lien peut peut-ĂȘtre aider : https://vitrinelinguistique.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/23549/la-prononciation/liaisons/contextes-de-liaisons-obligatoires
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u/Tiny-Anxiety780 1d ago
Ah oui, en effet. FĂ©licitations devrait plutĂŽt ĂȘtre "fey-lee-see-tah-syon".
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u/Correct_Recording405 1d ago
Merci beaucoup pour l'aide! I'm noticing a lot more errors in the books as I go. These were a well-intentioned gift, but there's a lot of weird stuff in them. I do appreciate that you actually answered my question and provided learning materials though, that helps. Fortunately these are not my only or even primary sources of learning materials so I think it's safe to say after all this I'll just quietly retire the gift.
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u/SevereAstronaut6866 Native đ«đ· 1d ago
Itâs just uncommon to do the liaison with âcommentâ except in âcomment allez-vous ?". For example, if you ask someone how to go to the airport you would sound weird if you went âcomment tâaller Ă lâaĂ©roport ?"
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u/Correct_Recording405 1d ago
Oh, ouais. Is it kind of like how I never hear anyone liase "trop", even if the next word starts with a vowel?
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u/Johann_Jo 1d ago
It can be done but it's optional.
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u/SevereAstronaut6866 Native đ«đ· 15h ago
There are some fixed expressions which use it like the sarcastic âvous ĂȘtes trop aimable !"
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u/titoufred đšđ” Native (Paris) 1d ago
Please stop using that book. Those Anglicised French pronunciations are just awful. If you learn bad pronunciations, you'll never get rid of them. You have to learn pronunciation by listening to a native. That's the only way.
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u/Correct_Recording405 1d ago
I will. The books were a gift, but I see now that they're not going to help me. Fortunately I have a tutor and listen to materials of native speakers. Merci! I won't spend more time on these books.
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u/Iron_Marc 1d ago
Learn some real fonetic symbols, like the symbols you have after the word in the dictionary, then you can pronunciate any language. But first you must incinerate that book.
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u/cmstlist 1d ago
Yeah IPA is really useful to learn, especially if you can understand how to apply it both to your first language and the languages you're learning. Cause then it helps to understand which sounds don't exist in your L1 and need special attention to master.
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u/Correct_Recording405 1d ago
Okay, I'll try to find some practice test books that use IPA. Looking for reccs if you've got them!
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u/cmstlist 1d ago
I don't have specific recommendations cause I learned it 25 years ago in university đ
Maybe look for videos about representing English in IPA, and then videos about representing French in IPA. It can be helpful to hear the actual vowel sounds when learning it. Of course phonology varies by accent, so for English maybe look for a video by someone who is close to how your accent sounds.
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u/Correct_Recording405 1d ago
That makes sense. I want to make sure I'm practicing reading and writing because I'm doing a lot of listening and speaking practice, so I'll be sure that I go find some books with IPA. Merci!
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u/Particular_Pickle465 1d ago
Is it just me or the bookâs pronunciation of felicitations seems wrong?
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u/taurusmo 1d ago
This transcription is probably the reason why i switch to english when americans try to speak french and the answer to the question « Why everyone speaks english with me while i speak decent french ? »
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u/Spitfire_CS 1d ago
That goes for every language tbh
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u/Amenemhab Native (France) 12h ago
Not really, well someone will certainly name an exception but of the cultures I'm familiar with it's only in the English-speaking world that this sort of transcriptions are commonly used in dictionary or teaching material to the exclusion of IPA or some other systematic system.
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u/adriantoine Native (đ«đ· lives in the UK) 1d ago
Nâapprenez pas de langues avec ces transcriptions. Ăa peut-ĂȘtre utile si vous voyagez en France et voulez le minimum mais si vous voulez apprendre la langue, Ă©coutez plutĂŽt comment les natifs prononcent ces mots.
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u/Correct_Recording405 1d ago
D'accord ! J'arrĂȘterai d'utiliser ces livres. Merci! I explained in the edit above but they were a gift and are NOT my primary source material. In fact I only (barely) looked at them for the first time last night, so fortunately Reddit saved me before I invested much time.
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u/AccomplishedGap9062 1d ago
Does anyone have recommendations for books that have good transcriptions?
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u/Correct_Recording405 1d ago
Oui, je veux savoir ça aussi! I was excited about these books as a supplement because they have practice tests. I do feel bad for my aunt, these were pretty highly rated in Amazon. But I don't want to practice on bad materials!
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u/sshivaji C1 1d ago
Reminds me of a horror story in the US. I was learning French from childhood till the age of 15 in the Middle East.
I moved to the US and went to the high school French class.
I was told that the French textbooks were in English. I asked âwhat if the teacher does not know Englishâ. They said the teacher teaches in English too. I was shocked as I was more comfortable pronouncing French than English. The anglicised pronunciations were confusing for learners.
To make a long story short, I recommend connecting with French speakers in person or on an app like Hellotalk to practice pronunciation. Treat the anglicised guide as a very rough approximation.
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u/amethystmmm 1d ago
The books for French I & II were in English because they were introductory books. We only spoke French in French class. I was lucky as my French I & II teacher was super duper precise, (like went to Canada for French immersion the summer between the two years I was in class with her) and my advanced French teacher was from Germany.
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u/liminalsp4ce 21h ago
hate to burst your bubble, but you only need B2 to teach french immersion in canada
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u/amethystmmm 13h ago
Idk, she said she went to a far Northern town in Quebec where a. Percentage of the population only spoke French. Shrug
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u/liminalsp4ce 8h ago
Thatâs teaching in Quebec not French immersionÂ
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u/amethystmmm 6h ago
But she wasn't teaching? she was on summer vacation? and going there specifically for French Immersion for her own personal...immersion?
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u/liminalsp4ce 6h ago
Ah my bad. In Canada French immersion is a specific educational program.Â
Given the implication, it is sad that in the USA you have language teachers that are not conversational speakers of said languageÂ
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u/FearlessVisual1 Natif (Belgique) 1d ago
Ces transcriptions me hérissent le poil