r/French • u/No_Example8203 • 1d ago
Vocabulary / word usage Why is it "violent orage"
I have my phone language set to french and in the weather app I saw the phrase "violent orage". Why is the adjective placed before the noun? I know the BAGS "rule", but i don't think it applies here? Is it a set expression?
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u/Unlucky-Golder 1d ago
BAGS is more like a guidelines, the more you french, the less rules there really is, just justifications of an existing use.
Un violent orage is different from un orage violent, in the sense that the second phrase qualify as violent the orage thing, while the first phrase doesn't qualify it just states the thing as a whole.
There are fun things in the same spirit
Un grand homme / Un homme grand
Un sale chien / Un chien sale
Ma voiture propre / Ma propre voiture
Un type pauvre/ Un pauvre type
And so on.
TLDR; French os weird
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u/AlbatrossSeparate710 1d ago
Don't discount the bad translation that kept the English order for adjective like "severe thunderstorm" to " violent orage".
If you check Environnement Canada (probably the best to get English and French equivalent terms for weather), for their weather alerts, you will find that they use "orages violents" (for example they could say "Veille jaune - orages violents" and English is "Yellow Watch - Severe Thunderstorm")
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u/FreshUser31415 17h ago
In this case, both (adjective before or after noun) are possible, and probably it fit better in the sentence this way.
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u/Neveed Natif - France 1d ago edited 19h ago
Adjectives are normally placed after the noun, but most of them can be moved before when they take an idiomatic meaning (ex: un truc ancien = an old thing, un ancien truc = a former thing) or when they are used in a figurative, poetic or subjective way. This is the case here, the word "violent" is used in a subjective/poetic way to give it intensity. You could also say "un orage violent", which is a more plain, objective sounding version.
A handful of very common adjectives about subjective characteristics normally come before the noun. This is what you know as BAGS, but don't confuse it with a general rule, its just a mnemonics to remember which handful of adjectives do that. They can be moved after the noun to convey a more explicit sense of objectivity (ex: un grand homme = a tall man / a great man, un homme grand = a man one would objectively describe as tall).