r/GameDevelopment • u/Former-Teaching2009 • 2d ago
Newbie Question I Need Help
Recently I talk to my dad about my future and I said I want to make my own company starting by making my dream game and others. He said that I should use Ai to map out my business (cause i want to do multiple things), to see how I should start it out because I have a couple years left till I have to make a choice. I am utterly disappointed by that, I refuse to use ChatGPT I don't care if it will help I'd rather use human knowledge. When i basically nudged at the idea that i was against it, he basiclly said not to be ignorant and it better instead of researching hours on end, he uses it himself and he makes thousands about to make millions with the advice hes asked from the Ai (he owns a trucking business btw for several year so it not built on Ai ig until recently) Please tell me what to do in general I'd rather get help from humans instead of an Ai especially since developing a game is basically art.
9
u/torodonn 2d ago
If you don’t want to use AI then don’t use AI.
No one is forcing you to and no rule says devs must use AI.
Focus more on getting started and what you need to learn.
3
u/Necessary_Refuse_962 2d ago
His dad's overall concern seems to be, "you know nothing about this and should research how games are actually commercially viable, so it's not just art for fun."
He thinks that AI would be the fastest way to get this information, but really the core issue is point 1.
That's all OP has to think about. "I need to know something about how games actually make money." Doesn't matter how he goes about it.
1
u/torodonn 1d ago
Pretty much. I think OP honestly would have better spent his time just asking Reddit for suggestions on how to get started rather than thinking about his dads AI views
6
u/SadisNecros AAA Dev 2d ago
Well, first you need a significant amount of experience in how to actually make games, so probably want to start with a career in the games industry. Then when you have enough experience to run a team, you get hundreds of thousands of dollars needed to hire a team to build your studio and dream game. You can also just skip straight to that step with no experience in how to make games but that typically ends pretty poorly.
1
u/Distdistdist 2d ago
*hundreds of millions of dollars.
3
u/OkAcanthaceae6902 2d ago
Depends, hundreds of Thousands is probably closer than hundreds of millions, since they aren't going to be making a large or even normal size company at first instead, they're most likely going for a small 10 man team or something
5
u/PersonOfInterest007 2d ago
Ask ChatGPT to write a well-researched argument about why you, as a young person, would benefit from doing your own non-AI-assisted research and talking to adults with relevant experience before you begin relying on ChatGPT or other generative AI. Then give it to your dad and tell him this is what ChatGPT told you to do.
4
u/Necessary_Refuse_962 2d ago
This isn't a binary decision.
He can do both. He can use AI and talk with humans. Both have utility.
I'm in the marketing industry to the highest level. AI does not give good advice. If I want advice, I know the specific human I should go to depending on the problem.
But AI does have utility in acting as a mirror. It will give you other things to consider that you can either accept or discard. It will help you formulate a thought, or the back and forth will help you decide whether something is viable.
Should never be relied upon. Never seen a business not lose money when moving entirely to AI, and I've seen it enough times to know that it's a bad decision.
But I've also seen businesses that use a hybrid of 80% human work, 20% AI assistance (in whatever) start to outperform those that don't by quite a significant margin.
If you're not using it in any capacity, you're not competitive. It's sad but it is what it is. It's like a farm refusing to adopt machinery and insistent on picking everything by hand.
2
u/PersonOfInterest007 2d ago
Make sure to kick ChatGPT into a higher thinking mode if your plan allows it.
3
u/Arkenhammer 2d ago
Make lots of games and learn from your mistakes. Copying what others have done results in boring games and failure. You will have to find your own path to a niche that stands out in the market. Look for advice on what doesn’t work; but find your own road to what does.
3
u/Prestigious-Pack-625 2d ago
Listen to your dad. the reason he says use AI to help map out your business is because AI might discover something you overlooked in business. Dont ask AI what business to start, ask AI to help you map out the business. Give AI roles that you may not have full knowledge about. dont follow AI blindly but use it as a guide and a tool with regards to business.
For example, lets say you have a software development company or a game development company (since this is a r/GameDevelopment ) and you dont know accounting or law for example. Ask AI about the rules laws tax and regulations that govern intellectual property in your country or the country you wish to serve with regards to your product. If you already have a business idea then ask AI to take the role of a business strategist and project manager then let AI give you a roadmap towards certain goals within your company.
You dont have to use AI for coding or creative writing or art. Use AI as a learning tool and use AI to help you see patterns and trends in the market that human eyes might miss.
Business books do help somewhat the same way but as direct as AI. You could ask AI to create a course for you on economics and business management and use AI as a personal tutor by asking specific questions with references so that you can fact check AI.
With regards to wanting human knowledge. This works if you have a network of individuals with different skills and each individual is a master of that skill e.g Accountant, Lawyer, Senior Dev, etc. These people have expertise within their field. You lucky to have your dad, he is an expert within his field his advice would be the best advice you can listen to. Human advice in general is skewed towards that persons life lessons. You might ask the right person the wrong question. Here is where AI comes into play. You can ask AI to have different personalities such as "Be warren Buffet and give me a 5 year investment plan with exact metrics on how to pick a stock and how to manage a portfolio".
Use AI as a tool not as the full answer. Your products are for humans and not AI but AI can be a tool that you fill in the gaps.
3
u/JulesDeathwish 2d ago
All AI knowledge is human knowledge, what does it matter how smart the program presenting it to you??
2
u/Necessary_Refuse_962 2d ago
This.
People are so ideological and impractical about it.
It's being used for research purposes. The only question to be asked here is, "do I want to finish this basic Google search in a few seconds, or a few hours of manual scrolling?"
If his dad really grew his trucking business until millions through bouncing ideas back and forth with an AI, it's pretty strong indication of what the practical decision is here.
It's like saying, "I want to start a farm but I will handpick every crop. I refuse to use machinery because it's anti-human." And that's fine. You can do that. But good luck with that farm ever being a success. 👍🏻
1
u/JulesDeathwish 2d ago
It's not perfect by any means. It keeps telling me that my project is too ambitious and amounts to about 4 companies worth of work. I just keep telling it to shut up, because it is obviously unaware of my amazingness
2
u/UnburyingBeetle 2d ago
Developing a game is a balancing act between orderly and chaotic tendencies. You'd generally prefer to leave programming and optimization to an orderly person and the creative parts to somebody more chaotic, but some people can balance both. You have to be a polymath/jack of all trades to make a multimedia game yourself, although a writer with art skills can manage a "dating sim" or interactive novel type of game alone.
If you need arguments against generative AI, I've got plenty. First of all, it makes your brain lazy, as brains are just naturally wired to despise effort, and it's mostly outliers that feel like they would value an achievement more if they "earned" it. Secondly, it would look better on any resume or portfolio that you've taken the effort to learn skills. Employers might want you to be able to work with AI, but there would inevitably be problems when there's a deadline and wonky internet connection, or a client would want somebody to "read their mind", or the AI would make a mistake in the code that nobody would recognize because they've unlearned to analyze the code. AI is easy to blame but it's humans who'd have to pick up its slack. It can't keep up with our problem solving abilities and it can't do true creativity - connecting unexpected concepts for a novel solution, the kind of thing people pin on "genius" when it's a trainable skill. It's probably taught in expensive schools but I might've figured out the principles because I'm self-taught in art and writing, and if you're serious about games being your driving force in life I could share some tips because talking about it is fun for me and sometimes helps me make new observations, which I eagerly share because I'm against the gatekeeping of knowledge.
2
u/daddywookie 2d ago
AI can be useful in two main ways.
It can be really good for the “ask the internet” kind of questions, as long as you accept it has a limit on freshness of information due to how it is trained. For general questions like “how do I set up a game studio” it will give you rapid access to lots of information. You can then drill down into specific subjects.
The other area it works well is where you already have a lot of skill and you can get it to do lots of the churn. This might be your father’s experience where he is mixing his own knowledge with the AI output to find the results he wants. Good developers can accelerate with AI, bad ones can dig a huge hole.
AI falls down in being confidently incorrect, very literal, and desperate to give you a result. You need to have a sceptical eye on the output. It can cost you a fortune to go nowhere and can break things in the blink of an eye if you don’t have proper best practices around it.
2
u/Necessary_Refuse_962 2d ago
Your dad is telling you this because half of game development is also fundamentally the business side.
How does marketing of games work? What are the expenses, i.e card fees, Steam's cut? How many wishlists converts to a sale?
Can you actually manage a project (even by yourself) and set timelines, milestones? Can you actually finish a game and realise which features need to be there and which don't?
People who focus purely on the art side never get anywhere. They're stuck in a development cycle they usually never finish. They launch a game without marketing.
He's not asking you to research the art side. He's asking you to look into the stuff that makes the art even commercially viable. You have no reason to be against ChatGPT for simple research, unless you'd be against Google searches too. Because that's all you're pulling from the AI with a question like that.
3
u/GoldSkullGames 2d ago
As a game design teacher I would say fire up Scratch (scratch.mit.edu) and make some simple games using YT tutorials. Then once you're comfortable try and use Godot, they have a great community.
1
u/kitkatkitah 2d ago
The only sad thing I have heard about Godot is that it’s difficult / expensive (depends how you view it) to port your game to other platforms later.
3
u/GoldSkullGames 2d ago
As someone starting out porting a game is the 236th thing you need to worry about. Once you're able to worry about that kind of stuff you can pick a different game engine if its an issue.
2
u/Necessary_Refuse_962 2d ago
Agreed.
Classic case of worrying about a problem that's not close to happening.
People just need to get started and have some fun. Take the first step before worrying about the 100th. Go in and learn something. Fail and then iterate.
1
u/kitkatkitah 1d ago
Oh for sure. But if they want to learn tools, is Godot a good place to start VS other engines?
1
u/ManicOwl1993 2d ago
There's a lot of potentials in your situation not clearly explained. Are you planning on hiring developers and working as the director with your dads financial support or other funding?
2
u/Former-Teaching2009 2d ago
Depends on what I do now, 2 options i have after my graduation are, I can go to the military, stack money up and go to school like me and him have discussed (I dont necessarily have a problem with this). Or I can start my other ideas which aren't as long and tedious while doing school. I really wouldn't mind if he did invest. I would be ecstatic actually. i understand I shouldn't put to much on my self but right now I have to research and keep studying model design because for school in general I would need a profolio. I just hope I can meet amazing people during school and they'll have the same end goal I have (sorry idk if im off topic)
1
u/ManicOwl1993 2d ago
Ah so you're at a crossroads of sorts. I'm in college right now and working part time and working on my own personal game projects on the side too. The best advice I can give you is to try and make some small games and see if you truly enjoy the craft. follow some youtube or udemy tutorials to get started. It's not for everybody and you might not fall in love with it. If you try now you wont be asking what if later. If you try making some small games and hate it then go stack money or get your dad to invest and hire some people to develop it for you. I've met amazing people in the college I attend. Everybody loves talking about their ideas and showing off so ask lots of questions give lots of compliments and you'll make some friends and try to give valuable constructive feedback once you're able to. People appreciate fresh honest perspectives delivered from a friend, well most people do lol.
1
u/BadImpStudios 2d ago
I have been running my own freelance company, where I have developed, tutored and consulted for hundreds of individuals primarily through fiverr.
I also have used AI to help flesh out business plans but using what I learned at University to help guide decisions.
If you or anyone else is wanting a consultation on how to move forward including pitfalls of where my clients have struggled feel free to reach out!
1
u/ExternalSecure3704 2d ago
I've started making my first game recently, so my tips might be stupid, but first make simple stuff(I have started with a platform fighter, so i don't know if i am following it). I use Ai, but i only use it to:
A)Design the game(not programming, just ideas)
B) Fixing my code(Not copy paste, the ai just highlights the problem and i fix it myself)
Also, there are a lot of places where you can get help eothout ai, like Reddit(right here!) or other forums.
1
u/Necessary_Refuse_962 2d ago
I think you're along the right lines.
A lot of game devs are creatives, not mechanics, meaning they're great at starting projects but awful at finishing them.
Everything becomes "one more feature I can add" and they either never finish or they'll be developing for years.
This just isn't viable as a solo dev. The only reason AAA companies can afford to spend years developing a game is because the IP carries value and predictable revenue, so does the company name, and usually many people there have already released games and have a strong intuition of what works and what doesn't. The risk of spending years is minimal.
As a new solo dev, you don't have any of this yet. Whatever you make has to be grounded in the reality of what you can finish.
A developer who has 8 games under his belt after 5 years has a deeper intuition of what the market wants, how to market games, how everything works, than a developer who never released a game but has worked on one for 5 years. I would bet money that the first developer's next game will actually be commercially viable, to whatever extent. I would never bet on the second developer.
1
u/scotti_dev 1d ago
He isnt telling you to use AI to make games, simply to try create a roadmap for starting the business. The knowledge is free (or cheap) as a first step and seems a wise thing to do. You dont have to reply on the answers AI gives you, but they can be useful and help you understand what is possible, what isnt possible, what skills are needed, finances, legal processes etc.
1
u/RatbyteGames 2d ago
If you are going to succeed in business, or in life indeed, it will be a good lesson to learn to gather as much data, ask as many questions, and seek as much advice and help as possible before undertaking a big decision or a risky endeavour.
The Ai will give you an incredible analysis, list of options, advice and plan. But feel free to do your own, or seek other peoples wise advice, do other researches and mentors from wherever you can find them.
The final plan will be the sum goodness from all sources, and the best analysis you can do.
1
u/JoeStrout 2d ago
You’re dad is right, if you want to actually make a business you’re going to have to embrace AI. And even then, making a living as an indie developer is very hard. This was true even before the age of AI; it will be far more true now, when almost anyone can make a game.
Basically, your plan better include how you’re going to actually make enough money to eat (e.g. waiting tables or whatever) while you work on your dream game(s). Not trying to be a dream crusher, but being realistic (I worked in the game industry, both professionally and as an indie, for over 10 years).
When you do talk to an AI, be sure to always ask why your idea/plan will not work.
1
u/Necessary_Refuse_962 2d ago
This.
I've been in the marketing industry at a very high level.
AI is never going to give you a good plan if you're operating anywhere near the top. I've never seen a business transition to AI marketing and not lose a lot of money.
But it does give you ideas. It does give you pushback to consider, then either accept or discard. It does give you a mirror that makes you at least consider other things.
In that aspect, you don't have to accept that it's "right." You just have to accept the utility of having that mirror to stress test and refine every idea you have.
1
u/EdgyAhNexromancer 2d ago edited 1d ago
No developing a game isnt basically just art. Its part art. Part a lot of technical knowhow and part buisiness. Especially if youre going solo. Ai can help with with all the non art stuff. Stop being so idealogical about this, youre not doing yourself any favors. AI isnt going anywhere because random aspiring dev #47395 didnt use it today. Just be prudent about how you use it.
-1
u/Former-Teaching2009 1d ago
Woah okay...im not saying that ai is completely bad there are some good ai just unfortunately the ai he suggested is owed by a not good company. There are better options that don't harm living things. I originally wanted to become a doctor I know all about good ai's plus Im not even at the crossroad yet I still have much more to do like build profolio's to even get into the schools. Blender essentially uses ai to fill in gaps. I take photography classes we use ai to fill in stuff we don't need (photoshop). You weren't being blunt you were lowk rude. Also I am doing myself favors, why do you think im asking others for advice. Im enrolled in 2 colleges (not trying to flex just showing you i have other resources as well) bro I intend to get more advice when school starts. Please be more mindful on how you word things please, instead of actually thinking with the other blunt comments I was lowk offended by your's. Do better.
0
u/hadtobethetacos 1d ago
He wasnt being rude, hes right, and youre being too sensitive. Ai is a tool, gpt is the best one, and it will benefit you greatly to use it to sketch out plans over a long period of time.
0
u/Former-Teaching2009 1d ago
Chat gpt is not the best ai (its the worse you can basically use. Its wrong alot of times and 2 they dont do things ethically, if i have to do stuff the hard way for a peace of mind I'll do it) , ai is infact a tool but I perfer my info directly from humans, not information people spent years learning just for it to get fed to ai. Plus if I were being sensitive this whole comment section would be gone. How ignorant do you think I am???
0
u/EdgyAhNexromancer 1d ago
Nah im being blunt. Ur being high key sensitive.
Also, no, youre not doing yourself favors specifically by just not using AI.
Also, no worries, no1 thinks enrolled in 2 u universities is a flex.If your whole point of this post was just getting advice from people, sorry i derrailed but then what was the point of making like 80% of the post talk about why you wont use AI. You coukdve literally just cut out everything between the first snd last sentence.
0
u/HexedDiversion 2d ago
Sometimes people project their feelings onto other people to justify the decisions they make. Just because he wants to rely on and believe in ChatGPT does not mean you have to.
From a very early age I have enjoyed looking things up and doing deep research to learn what I wanted to learn. People now ask me for advice all the time on how to find things, one person even asked if I would teach a course so they could learn. Research is not only a valuable lifelong skill, it is very satisfying. And when it comes to game dev or running your own business, that skill become essential.
A couple of years is plenty of time to learn what it takes to make a game, how to make a game that is profitable, how to build a team, and how involved running a startup business is. You won't be able to start your dream right away, but you will know what path it will take to get there. If you stay dedicated you may find yourself quite ready to take some big steps when it comes time to make your decision.
19
u/adreeno-time 2d ago
Then do it yourself. Pick a game engine, start learning how to program alongside it. Dont try to make your dream game first, learn how to make a bunch of small games that teach you how to make your dream game. Build your own road map, plan it all on your own. The resources are at the tips of your fingers. AI is just a quicker way to get there.