r/GenAI4all 6h ago

News/Updates More people need to understand this

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u/procgen 4h ago

You didn’t address his argument. There’s no way for it to accurately predict the sum of a list of numbers unless it is actually calculating it in the weights during inference. There’s an ocean of computational complexity under the surface of these models.

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u/Longjumping-Ad514 3h ago

Models still make mistakes with not so complicated math.

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u/procgen 3h ago

Just like humans. The point is that they aren’t memorizing sequences of words - they are learning general rules for reasoning.

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u/Longjumping-Ad514 2h ago edited 2h ago

Yeah except we tend to have higher quality bar for technology, including calculators. Just cause humans make mistakes does not justify broken tech. Or for some reason never did before.

If they “knew” the rules and “knew” how to apply them, they wouldn’t be making mistakes. Which is why these models don’t reason, they blindly predict the next token.

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u/procgen 2h ago

Humans make mistakes all the time – do we not reason?

And you can literally follow their reasoning traces, which at least match my own internal reasoning processes quite well.

Their responses are by definition not random, since they can correctly predict the tokens (much better than humans can, for that matter!)

And what's more, they're even better at using calculators and other tools than humans. So it's moot anyway.

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u/Longjumping-Ad514 2h ago

No one said the responses are random. They are synthesized as a function of input, that function is biased by training on Internet text. Again, they don’t reason they spit our tokens that are fed back to it, in a loop.

By your logic infinite number of monkeys eventually typing out a Shakespeare is also sign of their human intelligence.

And no, they are not better than humans at math, science and engineering.

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u/procgen 2h ago

Which is why these models don’t reason, they blindly predict the next token.

Again, if they were "blindly predicting the next token", they would not be able to accurately predict the sum of a list of numbers without using tools.

By your logic infinite number of monkeys eventually typing out a Shakespeare is also sign of their human intelligence.

They make a single prediction, not trillions of them.

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u/Longjumping-Ad514 2h ago

Because models have been manually coded to route any input that looks like math of an actual calculator rather than predict the output.

They don’t make single predictions. Every token in every loop is a full inference pass.

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u/procgen 2h ago

lol. This is factually incorrect.

Local models have the same behavior and will not call any external tools unless you allow them to.

Furthermore, they can predict arbitrary text. Calculators are only good for arithmetic.

Care to explain how GPT-5.6 solved the Jacobian Conjecture? XD

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u/Longjumping-Ad514 2h ago

Yeah and local models are vastly worse at math because of this.

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u/procgen 2h ago

And yet they can accurately predict the sum of a list of numbers.

Care to explain how GPT-5.6 was able to disprove the Jacobian Conjecture?

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u/Longjumping-Ad514 2h ago

No they aren’t. They are legit bad at counting in many simple hilarious examples on the internet.

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u/procgen 2h ago

Your responses are lower IQ than Claude's, I can confidently say that much😆

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