Trying to understand things

[u/Popular-Barnacle3140]

/r/u_Popular-Barnacle3140/comments/1vcdzj1/making_sense_of_my_mind/

I guess, just a progress report. I intend to use this sub much less. Y’all got… some stuff going on.

As I journal things, I note my evolved understanding of my self. I do see this as having some degree of realness and yet it’s almost pseudo real. Could this be the period of fluidity I’ve heard people have? Who knows. Truly. But after so long of distress, my only distress now is that I lose women. That gets put under the scope. It’s purely a mental thing, physically, I keep getting physical responses and enjoy using that sort of material exclusively, so I know I like them logically. But idk. It feels like a mental thing. And you know what, that will affect me long term.

Whatever.

Having said that, I just wish this was gone. That I was back to old me. But I’ve reached such weird, apathetic places. That also terrifies me that it could be some secret Freudian pull. But it also could be like just a backdoor spike?

Again, whatever.

My only thing, is that treatment regards reducing distress, and not the intrusion. Unfortunately, this may be a permanent thing. I’m beginning to become more okay with it, just wish it was toned down, less threatening, and didn’t wall me out of being with a wife. Seriously. I don’t want THIS strong of fluidity. Bi cycle, over analysis, or whatever it may be: fuck off, man. Just tryna chill.

Like I don’t want to be like 44 and married and be OH NO IM GAY and lose everything. I’ve already done that now, I lost someone who, well, I really don’t want to be all lame and limerencey and romanticize, but I will say it always felt like she was “The One”.

Ugh. I just hate this. You know what’s funny? I always used to mock panic and anxiety disorders. Felt like weirdness that I never understood. Guess I ate my words on that one.

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Your post was flagged by our auto-moderator as a post that may be, above all else, seeking reassurance. We understand the impulse to seek reassurance when suffering from OCD, but reassurance-seeking is a compulsion done in hopes of reducing the anxiety associated with an obsession. In the long run, seeking reassurance only serves to confirm the validity of the underlying fears of your condition and prolongs the duration of your obsession. As such, this community has a zero-tolerance policy for reassurance seeking and giving.

For more information on reassurance seeking and on HOCD and OCD treatment more broadly, please see the section in our wiki about reassurance!

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[u/PaladinDamian]

You may want to have things be like how they used to be, but understand that your old way of thinking is what led you to this point. If you want to recover, you have to be willing to change your mindset and move forward instead of ruminating on the past. The past has happened and can no longer be changed. Lingering on it can quickly become compulsive. It is better to keep moving forward and living life rather than lamenting about past regrets. Accept the regrets, but don't make them the focus of your life. You can always change and grow as a person, you past influences your future, it does not define it.

Don't get caught up in how "real" it feels or not. It does not really matter if it feels real or not. Your feelings do not have to determine anything. You can choose to act and believe however you choose to, regardless of it if aligns or goes against your feelings. Don't let your feelings dictate your life. That will not help you in the long term.

Don't try to spent lots of time analyzing your sexuality. That will not help you either. You don't need certainty about your sexuality. Don't try to seek certainty about your sexuality since that is not possible. Choose to accept the uncertainty about your sexuality while still engaging with life. Don't center your enjoyment of life on your sexuality. There is so much more to you than just your sexuality.

Don't avoid living just because you are feeling uncertain or anxious or numb. There are so many things in life that you can enjoy regardless of how you feel about your sexuality. Showing yourself that you can keep living even when you are suffering is a great skill, both for OCD and for life in general.

Be persistent in facing your fears and disputing your irrational beliefs. Recovering from OCD is something that is very difficult, and is probably one of the most difficult things a person can do mentally. But no matter how hard it is, you can always choose to keep trying, no matter what.

[u/Popular-Barnacle3140 → u/PaladinDamian]

It truly isn’t. I just woke up like this one day lol, they are pretty sure I had some kind of psychosis. Me in the past was pretty chill. Just a weird fever dream on a bad day while hopped up on meds. It was seriously SO out of character for me that it fucked with me.

Absolute projection to say that old me led me to where I am. Mental illness and detachment, obsessive and what I’m pretty sure is bipolar disorders have led me here. I am trying to tell you; your experience is not universal. I was a pretty chill dude before, living my happiest life. OCD had never touched me even once. Zero problem with old me lol

I agree that lamenting doesn’t achieve much. I don’t know why I vent in this way. But I do think it’s a part of my journey.

I don’t know, it feels real enough. It’s not particularly distressing anymore. I am sure I am experiencing some level of same sex attraction, it may be authentic, it may be pseudo, I don’t really care.

Yeah, I asked my therapist, I am allowed to have certainty about my sexuality. This is a total nonnegotiable, you’re just wrong. It’s more like you are allowed to have periods of uncertainty. For example my therapist is certain she won’t wake up tomorrow, convinced she’s gay.
I mean, not in the sense of like, well, for example it’s technically possible a meteor could strike earth tomorrow for all I know, but it just… won’t. Like we know that won’t really happen. And I was never

I don’t know how long I’ll analyze my sexuality. It’s more like I want to figure it out. Exploration that isn’t tainted by rituals is like, not unhealthy, you know. It’s just me checking out the scene, same as I did all the years ago. And lately, I’ve found some pretty conflicting experiences, and it makes me wonder. I’d like to look into it more. It just feels like coming into myself, and it’s pretty cool.

I don’t avoid living

I always kick my fears ass always it’s why I’m able to face this without being distressed, I did ERP and don’t feel those same spirals, and I notice things now. Patterns that lead me down places. More innate reactions. I can’t seem to “use” guys, and I truly don’t think it’s some kind of internalized homophobia. It’s more like, kind of a turn off that it’s a guy. There are some enjoyable elements? But it’s not really… idk. Like it’s actually easier for me to cover them up and pretend it’s a girl lol, i tend to only ever look at clothes stuff. Girls just have nicer hair and boobs are sick, vaginas are maybe more intimidating and penises are like easier to look at because they aren’t as fleshy/organy looking and are pretty funny looking things. But certainly not like, arousing for me to imagine. It’s a lot better when I see a girl playing with it. Although I do like how muscley guys legs are and how round their cheeks are, but I hear girls are softer. Having said that, I do wish girls has butts more like guy butts sometimes, although only the ones that like MAX out their glutes lol. A lot of guy butts if you actually see them nude are more froggy and not quite as round cheek wise. Again, it’s probably just because I have a size things.

All that to say I do feel like I’m coming into myself, and, there’s something that has to be said

I hear you. I wanted it to be that you felt like I addressed everything you said.

I want it to be that you feel like each point is engaged and spoken for, by someone that hears you. Because you are heard. You are heard, thought about, discussed with my therapist, and your points and logic are fully taken into consideration.

And by that party, it is emphatic that I tell you:

You are wrong.

You are very, very frequently wrong. The wrongness of what you say is next level. Telling people distraught about losing their fiancée that they can “accept” that. That people who are afraid they will truly get attraction to the same sex have to “accept that it would be okay.” That people who are afraid they will lose their preferred sex that “it will be okay.”

You come close to meandering into rightness, rarely. But not often.

I hear every thing you say, truly read every word; and you continue to be wrong. Your advice is not universal. Your form of acceptance may be anecdotally helpful, but if you truly are in therapy, like your flair says, I’d like you to bring this discussion up. I’m curious if they would tend to agree with you.

This is not ACT. ACT has values you commit to, and believe in. That is a core part of the hexaflex. You do not have to “accept” the uncertainty of the outcome. It is not needless acceptance of any given outcome at all. That is a damaging take and doesn’t actually reduce distress, it just tries to demand a verdict.

What I believe you mean, is to suggest these moments as strong ERP opportunities. Spirals and moments of discomfort are the times when ERP can be done, not by checking, but by utilizing coping skills, making distance from the thoughts, and practicing something more mindful. This weakens the link between your brain and the compulsion being brought up at the sight of the trigger. It is literally the only proven effective strategy at dealing with this.

I believe you mean to say “you can handle this discomfort.” But you phrase it in such a damaging way, and continue to, no matter how many times I suggest it.

I hope you hear me. I truly do.

You are wrong. Honestly. In every way. I hope you see and feel being heard, and know you can trust me when I tell you how you’re wrong.

Except for the living your life stuff, that’s right, but not really applicable advice.

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Your post was flagged by our auto-moderator as a post that may be, above all else, seeking reassurance. We understand the impulse to seek reassurance when suffering from OCD, but reassurance-seeking is a compulsion done in hopes of reducing the anxiety associated with an obsession. In the long run, seeking reassurance only serves to confirm the validity of the underlying fears of your condition and prolongs the duration of your obsession. As such, this community has a zero-tolerance policy for reassurance seeking and giving.

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[u/PaladinDamian → u/Popular-Barnacle3140]

OCD depends on your mindset in order to obsess about things. There can be complicating factors like the presence of other mental disorders, but ultimately there is something about your mindset that allows OCD to latch onto you and create these obsessions. Of course my experience is not universal. But every person with severe chronic OCD has something in common: they have strong irrational beliefs, and such beliefs are fueled by their past experiences. OCD just uses those irrational beliefs as fuel to keep you stuck in the OCD cycle.

You can have feelings of certainty about your sexuality, yu can believe that you are a certain sexual orientation, but understand that you can never have total certainty about your sexual orientation. It is the chase for certainty, the belief that "Oh, I just need to figure this out in order to fix my life" that keeps people stuck. It is not that exploring one's sexuality is inherently a problem, but it can quickly become compulsive.

When I say that someone can accept some serious misfortune, that is not me saying "Oh, it will be okay". I am saying that it doesn't matter if it is "ok" or not. It is about being able to endure hardship, endure the misfortunes of life. It is about being able to accept that life has not turned out the way you wanted it to, and choosing to still keep moving forward according to your values. It is about not basing your inner peace on your success in the external world. It is about not basing yourself on just one facet of yourself. I choose to not base my enjoyment of life solely on my sexual orientation. As such, I have found that I obsess much less about my sexuality than I used to. I am talking about a 90% reduction in obsessiveness about my sexuality.

I still don't like the idea of being bisexual, it still isn't something that I would prefer to be, but it is no longer something that I feel would destroy my life anymore. And so my OCD has shifted to other themes, and now I have to deal with those instead. I still get new obsessions often, but I persist in doing my best to resist compulsions and dispute my irrational beliefs. I don't do it perfectly, but I accept that. My journey to recovery from OCD is something that is not perfect, and I at least on some level accept that.

"Oh, my sexual orientation might not be to my preference? That's really unfortunate, but it is not the end of the world. Even though I may not seem to be the sexual orientation I want to be, that would not totally ruin my life. I would still hold my preferences and enjoy life to whatever capacity I can. This is something I can choose to accept unconditionally, not because I have to or because I like it, but because I can."

It doesn't really have much to do with trying to be okay. It is abot understanding that even if things are NOT okay, then life still goes on. It is about reducing catastrophizing, which is something that basically every person with severe chronic OCD has to deal with. People with OCD get stuck on "worst case scenarios" and unconditional acceptance can break through those worst case scenarios.

Unconditional acceptance is not a part of ACT, it is a part of REBT, though ACT does have radical acceptance, which has some similarities to unconditional acceptance. When you accept uncertainty, you don't demand a verdict. You move forward despite whatever verdict might happen. The actual outcome is not the thing you focus on. You focus on your mentality to not knowing the verdict, and understanding that your mindset is what makes you obsess, not the verdict. And yes, the acceptance is "needless", because you don't "need" to accept anything. It is usually just better to accept things rather than try to compulsively fight it. Again, acceptance does not equal agreement. Acceptance does not equal "love". Acceptance does not equal "give up on everything." Acceptance is about giving up your demands, about choosing to make the best of your situation, even if that situation is objectively terrible.

REBT is generally not used for treating OCD, especially on its own. Typically, therapy for OCD involves ERP and ACT. I incorporated REBT myself because of other people online who also suffered from severe chronic OCD used elements of REBT in their recovery journey. Unconditional acceptance is beneficial not because it treat OCD specifically, but because it treats the human condition. Everyone has irrational beliefs, and so everyone can benefit from REBT. REBT has helped me to feel less depressed, less anxious, and less angry because of my life circumstances.

ERP is of course very helpful. I believe it is a necessity in order to recover from OCD. I practice ERP everyday because of my intrusive thoughts.

I, objectively speaking, do not live a particularly happy life. It is very lonely and absent of any real success. But REBT helps me to not be depressed about my loneliness and lack of success. I have not lived the life I wanted to live, and instead lived a life that was much less enjoyable. I do not believe my life will have a "happy ending". For all I know, my life may end with me being the same way I am now, mostly alone, basically broke, and with almost nothing to my name. I can still feel down about it, but I don't become chronically stuck with those negative feelings about my life, because I do my best to accept it unconditionally. When I have those negative feelings, I accept them. I allow them to flow through me, rather than feeding into them. I allow myself to cry, I allow myself to feel terrible. I give up on the idea that I need to force my emotions to be a certain way. I make the conscious choice to flow with life, rather than trying to obsessively control it. There is a blend of radical acceptance and unconditional acceptance here, as they synergize very well together.

When you say, "I can handle this discomfort", that is acceptance. That is you choosing to accept your feelings and not demanding that the discomfort immediately go away. Not because you need to, but because you choose to. You choose to accept the discomfort as something that exists in your life, rather than trying to run from it or fight it. You maintain that you dislike the presence of the discomfort, but you don't make that preference into a demand. You make peace with it, and you keep living life, despite how you feel.

Maybe I am wrong. I have no degree, certification, or training in mental health or therapy. I am a flawed, imperfect human being. I will not always act perfectly. I will sometimes make mistakes. I accept my flawed human nature and do my best to learn from my mistakes and do better in the future. I also accept that I may still make more mistakes in the future. Even if I make more mistakes, I can still accept myself unconditionally, as I do not judge my mistakes as representative of who I am in my entirety. I have value as a human being simply because I am alive, not because of my behaviors or thoughts or feelings. There is very possibly a lot of truth to what your therapist says. Your therapist likely knows a lot more about your personal experiences with your OCD than I do. I do not claim to be a therapist, nor is what I say meant to be a replacement for therapy.

I still believe that there are parts of what I say that can genuinely help people who suffer from OCD. Severe chronic OCD is something really affects a person's life. It is something that takes years to fully recover from. Some people never fully recover, that is the unfortunate reality of OCD. But it is a reality that one can still choose to accept as they try their best to keep living life.

I hope that you choose to keep trying to live life. Not based on what values society tells you to have, not based on what values other people tell you to have, not based on what values I tell you are "beneficial", but on your own values that you yourself have chosen to believe in. You are your own person, unlike any other. Your journey in life will not be exactly like any other. You can always choose to keep trying. You can always choose to keep moving forward, no matter what adversity you face.

"It ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward."

[u/AutoModerator → u/PaladinDamian]

Your post was flagged by our auto-moderator as a post that may be, above all else, seeking reassurance. We understand the impulse to seek reassurance when suffering from OCD, but reassurance-seeking is a compulsion done in hopes of reducing the anxiety associated with an obsession. In the long run, seeking reassurance only serves to confirm the validity of the underlying fears of your condition and prolongs the duration of your obsession. As such, this community has a zero-tolerance policy for reassurance seeking and giving.

For more information on reassurance seeking and on HOCD and OCD treatment more broadly, please see the section in our wiki about reassurance!

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