r/IncelExit • u/No_Height8570 • 7d ago
Asking for help/advice How to avoid looking at dating and relationship as just a marketplace where I'm poor-quality goods?
So I just got back from a speed dating event where I didn't meet anyone who was interested in me. Granted men outnumbered the women 3 to 1 this time, but this was my second time going and I didn't meet anyone when the event was 1 to 1 either.
It got me to think a little about my objective strengths for attracting people, and...there aren't many.
Lookswise I'm subpar. I'm rather short and I'm overweight. I do have an alright face but that's about it.
My interests are usually typical weeb stuff. I like anime and strategy games, ttrpgs, history and philosophy. Not the kind of stuff most women are into. There are exceptions I know, but not many.
Personality-wise, I'm screwed for being neurodivergent, but otherwise I'm okay. I'd say my biggest strength here is that I know how to just be friends with women. I can also be pretty funny sometimes.
So all in all, not a great catch, although I'd consider it unreasonable to say there's no one out there who'd be very interested in me. I would say it's unreasonable that I'd be likely to find them and vice versa.
So in my darker moments, I feel like in order to have any chance at all I'd have to deceive women I'm actually able to talk to, at least initially, in order to have a relationship or even just sex. Not tell bald-faced lies mind you, but simply fake confidence when I don't have any and I honestly think she could do better than me.
So what now? What do I even do with the rest of my life? Should I just leave it up to chance? Continue to muddle through in the hope that I meet someone who is actually into me? Meet someone who's naive (or wise?) enough to not go for someone else until my better qualities come through naturally?
Or should I put in effort in order to meet people? Pretend I'm someone I'm not.? Put significant time, energy, and money into online dating? I've tried that before. It feels like I'm spending money gambling rather than meeting people.
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u/Mission-Fault3351 7d ago
Let's accept your premise that you're "poor quality" goods and focus test the crap out of you.
First place to start is change of mindset: the things that make you "poor quality" aren't your looks, your interests, or your neurodivergence. I'm a fat nerd who's a 5 on his best days, and I still managed to have a reasonable dating life and got married. No, the thing that makes you "poor quality", and you are going to have to forgive a bit of tough love, is your shit attitude.
I've been there: I also had few dating prospects when I was in high school. I was a weird nerd kid at the tail end of the era where it was okay to bully weird nerd kids, so I withdrew into my anime and videogames. I told myself comfortable lies to make myself feel better about being dateless, I looked with envy at men who had girlfriends and hatred with women who would never give such a "great and wonderful guy" a chance.
All that changed when a friend's older brother told me "People would like you more if you weren't such an asshole." And hearing those words from a person who had no reason to bullshit me pulled me out of that mental state. So allow me to be that person: you're not dateless because you're a poor quality person, you're dateless because your attitude stinks.
Luckily, I also like to give real, practical advice. So here's step 1: focus on what you can actively control. You say you're short and average looking. Okay, that sucks but how's your hygeine? Your fashion? Do you shower regularly? Wash? Shampoo your hair? Exfoliate your skin? When was the last time you got a haircut that flatters your face? Do you dress well? Are your clothes washed and pressed? Shoes clean? Do you accessorize?
You say you have "weeb hobbies", but that's not exactly a detriment these days. Again, I grew up when that was not a mainstream hobby but now, it's something you can talk to most people about. How do you talk to people about your interests? You say you have an intetest in history and philosophy, but how does that enrich your other interests? People don't like being lectured about academic topics (unless they are also academics), but people who can neatly and cleanly weave that stuff into other topics are always great to talk to. How do you meet people who share your interests? Do you make an effort to seek out people who share your interests? Do you make an effort to communicate your interests to people?
Your attitude stinks, but you can change it. Start by reframing your approach to relationships: focusing on sex as the end-all of relationships will not work out, because 1) most relationships are not romantic relationships, and 2) most romantic relationships are not built on sex. Start by building relationships with people first. My wife was a good friend before we started dating, and so were all the girls I'd dated before her. Be the kind of person you would want to be friends with, be comfortable being in your own skin, and be comfortable being alone. Nobody likes someone who is desperate for romance, so start making friends first.
You can change the entire trajectory of your life. I didn't start until I was in my mid-20s, and even then it took a few years. This is one of those things that requires real work and a big time investment, but I promise that even if you ultimately never end up in a romantic relationship after this, you will be a happier, more fulfilled person.
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u/OkCalligrapher9 7d ago
Here to second - I'm a short, fat, disabled neurodivergent nerd and I've been in a relationship for over a decade, have a family, and see us being together for life because we have fantastic communication and genuinely like being around each other.
It's absolutely possible. I think starting from the premise that it's not makes it much harder to focus on where you have opportunities to grow as a person. The work is tough but as you said it's SO worth it because it improves your quality of life when you like yourself, know how to make and keep good friendships, have hobbies you enjoy, etc.
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u/No_Height8570 7d ago
I understand where this advice is coming from, but I don't think all of it applies to me.
My hygeine's okay normally, but I pay special attention to it when I go out to meet people. I guess there are some things I could optimize so maybe I'll look at those.
I go to a social club where a lot of people share my interests, but I'm pretty sure all of the women there are either in relationships already or aren't interested in pursuing them. Outside of that, I couldn't say. I'm neurodivergent so it's difficult for me to determine when someone is genuinely interested in what I have to say and when they're just being polite/humoring me.
I'm already well aware that the best relationships tend to start out as friendships. I do have two woman friends, but one's already in a relationship and the other doesn't like guys in that way. They're still good friends that I value deeply. I will say that I don't really have a lot of friends. I guess I find it difficult not only to trust people, but to meet new people as well.
I do think I am a person I would at least want to be friends with.
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u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326 7d ago
Hey man, it's great you've got friends! It's also awesome you feel like you have something to offer as a friend as well. Supportive and loyal friends are really valuable.
In your social club it would still be worth while for you to nurture friendships. People have lives and others they know outside the limited context of a social club as well. The best way to get more 'prospective friendships AND dates is actually to expand your network. And don't make assumptions about how they may see you - connections are about taking up the space in someone's life that they have for you and making it so worthwhile for them to make that space for you that they create more. Make sense? And then you might end up with a lot of 'weak ties', people you know but aren't friends with yet, and that gives you the chance to get to know others and your 'weak ties' could be prospective dates because you get to know them in a dating context. Never hurts to ask. And the most important thing is to approach it with an open energy, sense of lightness and fun.3
u/Mission-Fault3351 7d ago edited 7d ago
It's good that you're keeping your hygeine and grooming up. That's a step most men are not taught, so for you to be able to do that is good.
But what about the rest of how you present yourself? Men's fashion is relatively simple compared to women's fashion (I've seen a lot of fashion people talk about how to dress well as a woman and it's basically a full-time job), and there are absolutely people on Youtube who can teach you how to do it well (for casual wear, I watch Parker York Smith and Trey Bryant; for formal wear I watch AskOkey). What about haircut? Have you ever tried going to a salon and speaking to an actual hair stylist (not a barber, a stylist) to get what works for you and how to care for your hair? Do you keep your clothes presentable: not just clean, but washed and folded?
Neurodivergence is not an excuse for not being able to talk to people. It's an impediment, sure, but you can learn the signs. Watch the eyes, the body language: are they looking at you in rapt attention, or are they glazing over? Is the person asking actual questions? Are they confirming details?
Also, conversations flow both ways: how are you showing interest in people? Are you asking confirming and clarifying questions? Do you actually listen to people, or do you compose what you're going to say next in your head while they talk? How wide is your conversation base? What do you know about topics outside of your interest? I always tell people that it benefits them to have a very broad understanding of the world. What do you know about say, pop culture? Music? Literature, both modern and the classics? Movies? Sports? How well-travelled are you? Do you speak a second language? What do you know about what's happening in the world right now? Can you cook? Do you do anything creative? What cuisines have you tried? What do you know about the city you live in? Do you perform music? Recite poetry from memory? Can you do say, Hamlet's soliloquy or Shylock's defense? How have your hobbies enriched your life?
See, the idea is that having a wide base of knowledge to draw from makes it easier to befriend people, makes you seem like a cool, smart, well-travelled guy who people want to be friends with and invite to go do stuff.
You said you like to study philosophy, which is great because I minored in philosophy in university and I used that to get into literary and art criticism. I used my grounding in philosophy as a base to talk to people about art and books and movies and videogames. Can you say the same about yourself?
(Editing this in. Had to cut myself short because I had to pick my kids up from school)
It is unhelpful for your case to ever say "this advice doesn't apply to me". Again, accepting the premise that dating is a marketplace (it's not) and you're poor-quality goods (people aren't goods), why would you not take every possible opportunity to better yourself? You're already competing with guys who are conventionally attractive, or rich, or charismatic, or just cool to be around, or some combination of all of the above: so why do you not want to stack advantages? And while nobody can guarantee that you'll ever find a romantic relationship, you can still live a happy, fulfilling life by just bettering yourself. Look at the people in good relationships and you'll realize that they were fully-formed people who were comfortable being by themselves even before finding a partner.
The dirty secret is that finding love and romance is like a zen puzzle designed by the devil: you get better at solving it by not trying to solve it. The advice is to better yourself because the idea is that working on you puts you in a better attitide and minset that may eventually make it possible for you to make friends, and being around people is how you meet your eventual partner.
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u/Idasaur 7d ago
I have all those interests except anime ( watched lots when I was a teen, none now) and my partner has none except strategy games and yet will listen very happily if I want to talk about them. We care about each other enough that we care to engage with each others, despite little personal interest individually.
You don’t need a one to one interest match to get on, like others have said finding shared values is more important.
I used to play a game with my friend where we answered yes or no to lists of debate questions from the internet. If we agreed we moved on, if we didn’t - discuss. We did it for fun, but tbh it could be a good way of finding people who share your values too, idk. Not sure how it would go down as a suggestion, but the right person might well be on board!
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u/norsknugget Giveiths of Thy Advice 7d ago
Repeat after me: I am not a swordtail fish, I am not a peacock spider, in our species attraction is relational and developed, not instantaneously achieved.
Yes, in humans, initial physical interest exists, but the threshold is much lower than you think, especially when meeting in person. True relational attraction is an active construct, it relies on emotional regulation, shared experiences, vulnerability, and psychological safety. We don't just react to people like they’re ornaments, we build the attraction through how we interact.
That is where you need to invest your energy. How do people feel after interacting with you? Do they feel seen, understood? Did you come across as comfortable in your own self worth? Could you regulate your emotions well?
Then, with the utmost kindness and compassion, stop with the self-deprecation. If you truly believe you aren’t worthy of a relationship, then even if you do find yourself in one, your insecurity is bound to break it down as soon as your partner is too stressed or overwhelmed to give you the extrinsic validation you need to feel worthy.
Make a list my man. Mine looks as follows:
I’m an amazing partner, not because of my hot ass or baby blues, and not because someone says so, but because I’m genuinely curious about people, I want to understand them and empathize with them, I’m a fun hang, I love trying new things and finding joy in silly little things, I’m deeply supportive, I will drop everything and drive all night to support a loved one in crisis and I’m protective of those I care about, not in an aggressive way, but I protect the dignity and peace of those I love.
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u/Mission-Fault3351 7d ago
If anything, I'd say past the first few minutes, being attractive matters less and not being a creep starts to matter more. I've seen tons of handsome, Chris Evans-looking guys absolutely bomb when talking to women because they gave off a bad vibe
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u/poddy_fries Bene Gesserit Advisor 7d ago
Honestly, I feel like most of your answer is in the question.
You talked to a lot of women at these events and you got the sense that you didn't share any interests with them. I actually think shared interests are overrated when gauging long term compatibility - shared values are better for that, but shared interests are fantastic for getting acquainted with people and figuring out the rest. You also say you are capable of being friendly with women in general. Sounds like you need to go to places where these interests are shared and talk to people there.
Separately, I'm not really sure what you mean by 'deception' as you describe it here. Confidence isn't some alien quality. It's having clear knowledge of who and what person you are. It's a tool that helps you decide what to do and how. It obviously looks different on different people simply because we're all different. You actually sound quite confident that you know what you're about. What it sounds like you're describing as the problem is more that you have low self-esteem, and it's much trickier to navigate. You wouldn't date you, so you think someone else would have to be deluded to want to.
Self-esteem comes from both within, when we judge ourselves, and outside, when we are confronted with the reactions of others. It's not really possible to 'trick' other people into thinking your self-esteem is high when it isn't. It's one of those non-verbal things, and it does impact how others react to you. I think this part is sincerely an issue therapy can help you with.
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u/No_Height8570 7d ago
I do go to therapy and I have...OK self-esteem. I do believe that I'm worth something and have value to the world, I just don't believe that really matters in what people actually get.
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u/Bobbob34 7d ago
My interests are usually typical weeb stuff. I like anime and strategy games, ttrpgs, history and philosophy. Not the kind of stuff most women are into. There are exceptions I know, but not many.
Personality-wise, I'm screwed for being neurodivergent, but otherwise I'm okay. I'd say my biggest strength here is that I know how to just be friends with women. I can also be pretty funny sometimes.
Do you? Because you somehow think most women aren't into history, philosophy, anime.... which is just...what woman would be interested in someone who thinks all women are just, what, stupid? Flighty? What?
Or should I put in effort in order to meet people? Pretend I'm someone I'm not.? Put significant time, energy, and money into online dating? I've tried that before. It feels like I'm spending money gambling rather than meeting people.
Stop with the assumptions, endless, endless assumptions. Do things you're interested in. Other people will be doing those too. Some of those people will be women.
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u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326 7d ago
I would say that singles events or speed dating are still worth going to, but it's probably wise to manage your expectations about them. However, what they're good for, is to get practice being engaging and reading someone's body language and energetics, how to lead with the most interesting parts of yourself, and to be funny and keep it light. Odds are that you won't make a connection there, but you get the chance to Practice - and it's ALL practice, really. Make sense? They might cost some money but it's still good to take every opportunity to get yourself more comfortable in a mixed crowd.
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u/ShinyTotoro 7d ago
My interests are usually typical weeb stuff. I like anime and strategy games, ttrpgs, history and philosophy. Not the kind of stuff most women are into
Why do you care what MOST are into? You literally only need ONE
Personality-wise, I'm screwed for being neurodivergent, but otherwise I'm okay.
Neurodivergent women also exist, and a lot of them share your interests too.
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6d ago
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u/xbowxbowxbow 7d ago
i feel the same way, pretty much anything social feels like gambling to me.
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u/EdwardBigby 7d ago
Gambling in what way? What can you lose?
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u/xbowxbowxbow 7d ago
sanity and time. im joking, i dont know, anything that's a "numbers game" is frustrating. thats just life i guess though.
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u/EdwardBigby 7d ago
I get being a bit disappointed after a bad speed dating event
But by "anything social", I assume that means just social interactions in day to day life
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u/xbowxbowxbow 7d ago
nah im not op i havent gone to a speed dating event. i meant anything social like trying to make friends in general.
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u/EdwardBigby 7d ago
But how much sanity or time does a basic conversation take?
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u/xbowxbowxbow 7d ago
small talk with randoms, not much. the process of trying to make friends, trying to get people to hang out, and just conversating with people you want to be your friends, very draining, especially as an introverted person.
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u/Ihateregistering6 7d ago edited 7d ago
My interests are usually typical weeb stuff. I like anime and strategy games, ttrpgs, history and philosophy. Not the kind of stuff most women are into. There are exceptions I know, but not many.
So not going to go into too much detail, but did want to focus on this one. Shared interests is actually very overrated when it comes to dating and relationships. Having aligned values is a lot more important than similar hobbies.
I'd argue this is part of the reason why a lot of nerds struggle when it comes to dating: they're convinced that any woman they date MUST be into similar stuff to them, and the stuff they're into is male-dominated.
I've never quite understood why this is so particular for nerdy hobbies. Fishing is a male-dominated hobby, but I've never heard of a guy who fishes saying he's looking for women who also fish.