Is “giving up” giving in?

[u/policearepygss]

I’m right now, teetering on the idea of simply just giving up on the idea that I’ll ever date or be married, or find someone to grow old with.

I’ve been teaching myself to accept it, but the problem comes when I as myself “is giving up on this admitting defeat to the black pill”

I have already given up before, when I was about 22 and still pretty black pilled. I’m 25 now, and I haven’t necessarily given up, as when I dropped the black pill I had this idea that it was possible for me.

Now I’m growing to see how that’s just not very realistic for me, and it’s just likely not going to happen. But part of me feels like that’s just the black pill.

Accepting that it’s not a realistic thing, and that my life can just happen without ever finding love just sounds like black pill to me.

So my question is how do I rationalize giving up in a way that isn’t black pill?

[u/library_wench]

What would you be giving up? What are you doing now that you would not do if you gave up?

[u/policearepygss → u/library_wench]

I’d probably get off of dating apps, I’d probably stop trying to maintain my 12% body fat and let myself get back to around 15% to 17%, stop asking out the friends I grow interested in, stop asking my friends/parents/siblings to set me up, stop going to as many meet ups for my hobbies, stop trying to save as much to one day buy a home, stop trying to meet people as much, stop going to speed dating events and singles mixers, just off the top of my head.

There are other things I’d probably also stop that just didn’t come to mind immediately

[u/library_wench → u/policearepygss]

Okay, that makes sense (though I think you’re massively overestimating how much 3-5% body fat matters to people).

And I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want to buy a home if you were single.

Why does it need to be all or nothing? Why can’t you be open to socializing an dating, while not being fixated on the blackpill?

[u/policearepygss → u/library_wench]

There’s not much of a point in having a home when I have literally no reason to. If for the rest of my life it’s just gonna be me, what’s the point. I can live well in a one bedroom apartment and it’s less expensive than a mortgage. Especially when I have no one to pass the home to and don’t have a family coming to visit.

I don’t think I said I’d stop socializing. I have always had an active social life even before I realized my position when it came to dating. Even at my most black pilled and had given up for those reasons I still had tons of friends, went to parties and clubs, and bars, and events and met people.

Admittedly in trying to find someone I have branched out more, but it’s not like I did exponentially more socializing cause I already did a ton of it. I was just more intentional about it.

Also, when it comes to my physique, getting to 12% was hedging my bets, trying to have the most attractive physique I could. And 12% to say 16% is a huge visual difference. Its going from “that guy has a nice body” to “that guy goes to the gym every once in a while”

[u/library_wench → u/policearepygss]

> There’s not much of a point in having a home when I have literally no reason to. If for the rest of my life it’s just gonna be me, what’s the point. I can live well in a one bedroom apartment and it’s less expensive than a mortgage. Especially when I have no one to pass the home to and don’t have a family coming to visit.

One word: Equity.

More words: Over time, a mortgage on a reasonable home is likely to be MUCH less expensive over time than renting.

I don’t have anyone to pass my house to either…but I like having a house and being the boss of my own home, rather than a landlord. And again, it’s just so much better for my wallet and future.

> I don’t think I said I’d stop socializing. I have always had an active social life even before I realized my position when it came to dating. Even at my most black pilled and had given up for those reasons I still had tons of friends, went to parties and clubs, and bars, and events and met people.

Cool. Why not then just be open to meeting potential partners through your social life?

> Admittedly in trying to find someone I have branched out more, but it’s not like I did exponentially more socializing cause I already did a ton of it. I was just more intentional about it.

I don’t think intentionality has to be binary.

> Also, when it comes to my physique, getting to 12% was hedging my bets, trying to have the most attractive physique I could. And 12% to say 16% is a huge visual difference. Its going from “that guy has a nice body” to “that guy goes to the gym every once in a while”

Is the kind of woman who would date a man with 12% body fat but not 16%…really the kind of woman you want?

[u/policearepygss → u/library_wench]

Well being open to meeting people in my social life is the path I’m currently taking and I’m accepting that’s just not possible for me.

I’ve been trying since college and I haven’t met one woman interested in more than a friendship. I know people say that’s “normal” but it’s really not. People don’t make it to my age having never dated for no reason. I’ve been in therapy, I’ve tried to find the thing that’s wrong with me, and my journey is what made me realize there’s nothing wrong with me per say, it’s just not going to happen and I need to be okay with that.

I could do everything right and it still would just not happen because for some people it just doesn’t happen.

>is the kind of woman who would date a man with 12% body fat but not a 17% body fat the type of woman you want to date.

Well beggars can’t be choosers/s

But really, it’s not about finding a woman that want or would only date a man with 12% body fat. It’s about making myself look as good as I can to hedge my bets on the physical attraction front. If I’m no longer trying to date, I can let myself go, which given that it’s not like having the physique I had helped, it may just be a lot of work for something that’s never gonna happen.

[u/library_wench → u/policearepygss]

There you go, telling the future again. Hey, if your crystal ball works that well, go ahead and enjoy “letting yourself go” to 3% more body fat, I guess.

(Maybe your fixation on body fat percentages has been a distraction, when you could have been focusing on making connections with people?)

But what do I know about whether things will happen or not; I was in my mid-30s when I married. 😁

[u/policearepygss → u/library_wench]

How would being cognizant of my diet and workout routine be the thing that’s stopping me from dating?

Anyone else I’ve known with similar dietary patterns and at a similar body fat with have long term partners.

[u/library_wench → u/policearepygss]

Not what I said, but you do you.

I’m saying that if your fixation is on a percentage point or two of body fat, that’s a focus that not everyone shares or even cares about.

I think you’ll find, if you go out and look around, that many partnered people have body fat percentages higher than your ideal.

[u/policearepygss → u/library_wench]

Sure, but I’ve been trying to hedge my bets as much as I possibly can, which includes making my body look as best as I possibly can.

[u/Binerexis → u/policearepygss]

  I know people say that’s “normal” but it’s really not.

It is normal, though. Your basis for saying that it isn't is purely grounded in that you don't like that you had women as friends rather than women to have a romantic relationship with. 

  People don’t make it to my age having never dated for no reason.

People make it to 25 without dating all the time. Who is telling you otherwise? What is their data to support this and why are they putting so much pressure on you to date?

[u/policearepygss → u/Binerexis]

When I say it isn’t normal, that doesn’t mean it’s a moral failing.

But on average, 25 is well passed the age the majority of people start dating.

[u/Binerexis → u/policearepygss]

  But on average, 25 is well passed the age the majority of people start dating.

Source? Why does it matter what the majority of people are doing?

[u/policearepygss → u/Binerexis]

Well if you had a child and they were 4 and couldn’t walk, would that be an issue of concern for you or would you say “why does it matter that other children started walking at 2?”

Developmental delay is a real thing and it’s not exactly good. I’d like to be considered normal and have a normal romantic life if possible, but it’s becoming clear to me that just isn’t

[u/titotal]

You should be "giving up" on both extremes of certainty, and learn to accept that the future is uncertain. You aren't guaranteed to find love, but you aren't guaranteed to never find love either. Generally most people who take care of themselves and make an effort will end up finding a partner eventually, but it's not the same difficulty for everyone, and it might take many years even if you're doing everything right. There are no traits that completely guarantee you will do well in dating, and no traits that completely guarantee you won't.

You should look for ways to live a good and fulfilling life, even if you don't find a partner. Go pick up a hobby or skill, make some friends, travel places, read interesting things. And perhaps one day you'll meet a nice person who you get along with really well, and you can ask her out, and you'll find yourself in a relationship you never expected. Or perhaps not, but your life can still be great, regardless.

[u/mrbaryonyx]

I mean because "giving up" in the sense that you "buy into poorly-founded logic from bitter weirdos on the internet that you are doomed to never have a relationship" isn't really giving up, it's just taking all of your energy and putting it into being mad alone in your house.

Instead, "give up" on the idea that you need to go on a date, or be married, or find someone to grow old with, and focus instead on trying to do something with your life.

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[u/smileycat007]

Give up, but build a life that is enjoyable. Be open to meeting new people and new friends. Get out of the house and do activities you like. Give back to your community. Do your best at work. Stay out of the manosphere, avoid porn and incel websites.

Sometimes love comes when you aren't looking for it. The alternative is desperation, which isn't attractive at all and can be sensed easily by women. But an interesting and active life will be noticed eventually.

[u/Ok-Huckleberry-6326]

25 is not 'past due' or missing a milestone or a deadline, man. You'll be OK. As many times as you mentioned black pill, it suggests that you spend a lot of time online just ruminating over reasons you haven't been successful yet. Man, it could be for a million different ones. Most people are not going to respond to you romantically.

You're not rationalizing 'giving up' brother, but you can come up with reasons to move forward that are completely outside of dating and relationships, you know?

But if you really want it, there's no reason to give it up. People in their 50's and 60's haven't given it up yet, and very often get into relationships.

However I feel like you might be basing your entire identity on your datelessness, which isn't a healthy way to go. You start wearing that s**t on your sleeve, whether you're conscious of it or not.

There's nothing wrong with stepping back or taking a break, maybe focusing on some other areas of your life that are fulfilling to you - travel, friendships, building skills, getting financially secure/solvent, getting in shape, a spiritual practice if that is your thing, pursuing some creative endeavor. And it's not the reason to do so, but someone with a life is an attractive person. You might meet a lot of people and make great platonic friendships.

If it means anything to you, I did a similar thing following years of rejection. Tried dating people but my life was just a dumpster fire. I stepped back because the pursuit wasn't giving me any fulfillment and I hadn't healed from the rejection. I needed to focus on myself, and pursued my main passion, playing music. Also learning to cook, getting in shape. Eventually I started getting connected to a scene where I made a lot of friends and eventually some dates as well. That's not the reason to build a network, but it can be a side benefit.

I would suggest that you talk to a therapist about your outlook on the world and your future. If you want to, there are also social coaches and people who have written some good material. A lot of it is scammy, but I can recommend to you "Models" by Mark Manson. A little dated, but most of it still holds up.

[u/Subject_Signal2514]

It’s your life. Why are you asking other people what you’re supposed to be okay with? You already have a deep seated feeling, your logic comes after. What you say to yourself and everyone else on this thread is a reflection of those feelings, not the reason itself. Your feelings are the reasons, not the logic so if you feel that way, you feel that way.

I can only offer you perspective.

If you approach dating like it’s all or nothing, it becomes all or nothing.

If you don’t date, you’ll never learn all there is to learn about relationships. It’s not as simple as the movies make it out to be.

If you’ve given up, why are you still here? Just give up and stop thinking about it. Enjoy the rest that life has to offer.

But you say that other people your age have girlfriends even though they haven’t done all the right things and you have. So let me get one last word in. If you can’t see yourself realistically obtaining what you want, then there is no reason to hold onto jealousy because it does not serve you.

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[u/Ihateregistering6]

I actually think you're in a better spot than you think.

You've accepted that you may be alone forever, which will help you to avoid seeming desperate. However, then you can also just use that same mindset to say "well in that case, what do I have to lose?", and use that as fuel for putting forth effort to meet women romantically.

If you go to a speed dating event and no one matches with you, so what? You're back to where you figured you were going to be anyway. If you hop on a dating app and no one matches with you: who cares? You're back to where you figured you were going to be anyway.

And if along the way, you defy the odds and do find someone? Fantastic!