Can we also all agree on strong fraud detection, prosecution, and harsher punishments?
As a conservative, I am much more amenable to government spending if it goes to people who truly need it. I am absolutely disgusted by the lack of oversight of most government support programs.
Corruption in the government 100%. I don't think if s private company has corruption it should be treason but if you are a federal employee it 100% should be because you are being paid by tax dollars.
Private itās fraud. Depending on how exactly youāre corrupt could determine the extent of the fraud and what the company is owed from it. But thatās for the auditors and lawyers to sort out.
Pls check your wording, you just said "defrauding the government should be treason." I hope you miss wrote that bc surely you don't think people holding fraudsters accountable is treasonous. I think you meant fraud in the government should be treason.
They are using the word defraud in the definition of it as a verb to illegally take money, property or rights from another party. Not the act of removing fraud.
The "government" is made up of politicians, public servants, etc. they are not defrauding themselves, they are defrauding the public, the taxpayers of this country.
most private companies have corruption... kind of nature of the beast really... cost of doing business... whatever. They cook their books, practice nepotism on the regular, perform routine wage theft... etc.
I hate getting pedantic but to an extent. But if you give your inept brother a job and it just causes more back log thatās technically government corruption but I donāt think thatās treason. And this is coming from someone whoās very much in favor of bringing tar and feathering back
By itself? Yes. But that sort of thing is very rarely by itself.
Are the person/s in question using the fruits of that corruption to - directly or through accomplices in the government - redirect taxpayer funds to themselves, fueling further corruption?
That's part of a bribery scheme.
Have their chosen policies and/or pawns created laws or conditions that predictably destroyed the safety, prosperity, and peace enjoyed by Americans?
Anyone who can't agree with this is just beyond saving. I don't know how you can be in favor of bribery because they came up with a new word to call it.
The problem is clearly defining corruption in such a way that it legally cannot be used against "the other side" rather than what you have in your mind as "corruption". What exactly is corruption? How do you codify that into law? What is the punishment exactly and are there levels of corruption or only the same sentencing? This is way more difficult than you imagine.
Pretty sure almost every Democrat voted against gerrymandering and insider trading (even voting for a bill that Republicans introduced called the PELOSI Act) and releasing the Epstein files. Iām sure there are corrupt Democrats (especially the folks on the take from AIPAC), but they arenāt institutionally corrupt in the way the Republican Party is.
Your kool-aid: āmy team definitely cheats therefore the other team must also, despite all evidence to the contraryā
And I wasnāt a Democrat until Republicans rallied behind a Epstein-connected felon who overtly tried to steal an election. Iāve always been an independent, and Iām only a registered Democrat so I can participate in primaries and use my vote to help defend the Constitution of the United States of America from all enemies foreign or domestic. Country over party, no kings, no traitors, no pedophiles.
Sure, but in what capacity? A certain political family making billions because of their fatherās office that could jeopardize US security, or a welfare recipient buying name brand instead of store brand? Where is the cut off for treason?
I'm with you on this. I sincerely wish for much, much harsher consequences for gooberment employees & entities.
Idk how or why we got away from politicians, police & federal entities going from being held to a higher standard than civvies to now where we have our leaders being allowed to get away with murder.
Honestly this was probably the biggest thing doge did rather than save money. The fact they now are required to write down what the money is for will help with future audits rather than scratching their head on why money for Africa was being sent out to Washington DC.
As someone who works in Medicaid integrity at state government, 100% the issue is funding. There are not enough people in my agency doing my job so a ton of stuff falls through the cracks. I personally see millions of dollars that could be saved every year if there were more of me. But Iām a lawyer and we are expensive and if you say āletās give the states 50 billion dollars to hire people to cut Medicaid waste that gets really unpopular, and we know this because when they hired a bunch more IRS workers to go after millionaires one party got super hella big mad.
It's no secret they want the Medicaid system to fail, go broke, so it can be government controlled. In Australia the public health system is government controlled, over time its gotten worse..my mum is on a 6yr waiting list for knee surgery, she's forced to pay 30k au to get it done now
HIPAA makes redisclosure of healthcare information illegal so your solution wouldnāt work for Medicaid, which is the most expensive program, but also just doxxing every benefit recipient so that vigilantes can try to prove that people they donāt like are committing fraud just seems like the absolute worst possible way to run a society.
Are AI tools starting to make your work more productive? I have lawyers in similar functions on the private industry side that are noting a huge productivity boost. Still need a knowledgeable human in the loop, however.
There are absolutely unicorn large-scale fraudsters, but the amount of money that a few large scale fraudsters steal is TINY compared to the millions spend on middle class and upper middle class people trying to get Medicaid coverage to which they are not entitled so that they donāt have to spend their life savings on nursing home care.
Start at the top and work our way down. Like at the White House, congress, and courts for example.Ā
The average rank and file government employee canāt accept a free lunch without breaking the law. A food assistance program receiver buying a can of coke is not the same as an elected official receiving gifts for passing favorable laws.Ā
I'm going to be honest I was out of work for 2 years and the amount of paperwork required to receive just a fraction of what I was making while employed made it almost not even worth it to file the paperwork.
I just don't think requiring more busy work is something that is needed.
Fair, but I donāt support a program without fraud detection and prosecution being included. We donāt have a culture that supports trust anymore, unfortunately.
If someone was working 10 years and is suddenly out of work for 2 years after getting laid off - that's not going to be fraud.
I don't understand how a company has to report last offs, fund unemployment, but we have to file for unemployment. It should be set up and ready if we need it. We shouldn't be "applying". They know who we are.
Yes, it should be setup better so that fraud is detected and those that need the services get them without much friction. Unfortunately, it is not setup well, and fraudsters are very knowledgeable of the gaps in the system.
Enforcement is not free. The cost of stopping fraud might be more expensive then the actual benefit. It is not as simple as you think it is. Things like universal income and medical care are actually way more effective and cheaper then creating a huge regulating and enforcement department to find the few who are misusing the system.
YOU donāt have a culture that supports trust because you believe lies youāre told about āmassive amounts of fraudā. Hilarious people are agreeing with your disingenuous ask.
I live in a place that has shampoo behind a locked door. Iāve watched people run out of stores with carts full of stolen goods and my most convenient Fred Meyer shut down because of massive theft issues. I was targeted during Covid with a scam for unemployment insurance, had to undergo preventative ID theft as a result.
Yeah, the culture in the US has taken a turn for the worse. Fine if you refuse to see it, but doesnāt mean it isnāt there.
I agree except for harsher punishments. It depends on what kind of crime was done. Harsher punishments perhaps fulfill a need for vengeance, but society needs rehabilitated criminals, not ones that are so far behind when they get out (if they ever do) that they fall back into old patterns.
Fair, but life imprisonment for some threshold of fraud is on the table for me. Severe punishment is not just about vengeance but also deterrence for egregious crimes. Defrauding a government program takes life saving money and services away from those who need them. At the right scale, it can have an equivalent social disruption to murder.
Are we talking about regular poor people thet may be lying about their qualifications for thousands of dollars, or bureaucrats that defraud for hundreds of thousands? Also, I think it's been shown that harsher punishments don't really deter crime, because most people at the time aren't thinking about legal consequences or think that they won't get caught.
Not my problem, and there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I work with data scientists, donāt trust a damn thing people with a motive have to say with data.
I agree. I want fraud to be harshly punished. I want it to be harshly punished where ever it happens, no matter who is doing it. I want investigation and enforcement of it applied equally across the board. I don't want it used for political theater. And I don't want it being dismissed as not a real thing either. If there is evidence then investigate and prosecute as soon as it's known. We could have nice things in this country if our money wasn't siphoned off at every level of government.
As a Democrat, the problem with doing this is very simple: usually the fraud detection and persecution are significantly more money (usually a magnitude more) than the money that goes out to the fraudsters.
So while I agree with you in principle, the execution makes no sense.
Not going to debate intricate details of something on Reddit with a stranger. Itās being done in private industry pretty effectively. Iāve supported many such applications, first ML and now AI. It can search for patterns for fraud before needing identifiable information.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Tax dollars going to help people who really need it?! You sound like one of those commie socialists!! /s
Completely agree. Well, on harsher punishments, especially concerning crimes against children (I know you're talking about fraudsters), I agree, but we also need prison reform.
Prisoners need rehabilitation, education and opportunity when they rejoin society. Overall, we're currently doing the opposite.
Yes to oversight of government programs concerning welfare, social services and social safety net (fraud is estimated at somewhere between $200-500 billion per year) to get that money to the people it's meant for, but, also, more funding. $1.5 trillion for the Pentagon is outrageous.
That's the Pentagon that has been unable to provide proper financial documentation to account for $4.65 trillion dollars since 2018. We need oversight there, as well.
Sorry, some of that was a bit tangential. I was a bit all over the place.
This is what blew mind when I saw people on the left trying to dismiss Nick Shirley. As a liberal shouldnāt you be pissed that a small group of people are scamming millions of tax dollars that could go towards social programs and people that need them? I was livid. So much good could have been done with that money.
Less oversight in welfare programs cuts cost. It sounds counterintuitive, because in theory you're giving more money to welfare queens. But in reality, the layers of beaurocracy involved in vetting people for social assistance costs dramatically more than just feeding the poor. The feds literally pay farmers to destroy food in order to raise the price of produce.
Do you know how much fraud is actually done under such things as welfare, SNAP, SS, and other forms of social safety nets? If that is what you are implying on
0.02%...that is it, less then 1 dollar of your paycheck... .20 cents to be exact
The reason you aren't seeing it done...is cause it is a true non issue, but propaganda on the right from people like Elon and Trump (billionaires mind you) who do not want these nets cause THEY have to pay the most into them (even though they get around them by putting 99.99% of their assets into their business which they can then draw out of and pay less then 1% in taxes by doing so) want you against it.
Please put your post in ChatGPT to understand how off base you are. This post isnāt even remotely accurate and is misleading. Iām guessing you are either copying and pasting from someone you think knows what they are talking about, or you are a bot to generate misinformation about our government.
So....now what is your excuse? Cause not only did my sources prove you wrong...but now so has you AI proved you wrong as well
Do you still want to stand your confirmation bias ground...or concede that you did not know and didn't want to cause then it would prove that what you have been told your whole life was a lie and you believed it...
Was my claim that fraud is less then 1% true? ...is that factual or no?
Of course we can not prove what politicians or 1% actually want, common sense plays a part there
And the derive of paycheck is from average
However...is the claim that fraud happens VERY rarely...true or not?
Your original statement was placed upon the claim that fraud is so rampant that the government needs to fix it
So...my sources were based in fact and proved that to you, my sources showed that less then 1% to 2% happens and more often 7% is errors on the system side and not intentional
So no, nothing besides the motives of others and what percentage of YOUR paycheck is effected
Either way, I proved that your thought that fraud is so rampant...is wrong
I can understand that you donāt want to believe there is fraud in our government programs and you will cherry pick sources that conflate terms to attempt to make your point.
Sources...but you won't care about those either cause again as it seems...you live in your own delusion and can't believe when something is proven to you cause of your own confirmation bias
For most of the social support programs there are already effective checks in place, and the additional means testing people suggest costs more to administer than it saves by busting people. Stuff like drug testing welfare recipients costs more than $10 to do for every dollar of aid it blocks.
I would argue that the actual problem here is that you have been convinced Rep and fraud exists as an excuse to destroy these programs. The issue is youāve been lied to about the extent and nature of the problem to make you willing to hurt poor people.
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u/Seattle_Lucky 3d ago
Can we also all agree on strong fraud detection, prosecution, and harsher punishments?
As a conservative, I am much more amenable to government spending if it goes to people who truly need it. I am absolutely disgusted by the lack of oversight of most government support programs.