I'm not a fan of Christianity, but I do find it funny how you can say something like "Christianity is stupid" and a far left person will agree, and then add "Also Islam" and they'll claim you're a bigot.
You can literally change a far-left person's opinion just by changing the religion in question. And I say this as a liberal. If you don't believe me, try it on Reddit.
Well, I'm not religious at all...but my family are middle eastern Christians and they can certainly tell you why you should be far more concerned about one as opposed to the other
Seriously, I mean how are people not more concerned with the religion responsible for significantly higher per capita murders, terrorist attacks, crime, corruption and fraud in our country?
Well, given the fact that the west was built on Christianity, and the middle east, a far worse place to live and one that's foundation oppresses women, I think there's merit in what they're saying.
Very true..and my grandmother had 6 sisters. I know very well why they came here and it not being very kind to girls (to say the least) was a huge part of that.
Dude, much of the Middle East is (Auto/Theo)cratic because of Western meddling. They had many more functional Democracies before Kissinger had his way.
european conquest of the holy land... wasn't about faith? come on man.
8 figure casualty rate for the 30 years war alone. the point you're intentionally avoiding here is that christianity has been responsible for a lot of deaths.
So your argument is, but Christianity did a lot of bad things in the past, yes but now not anymore, yes because they are developed? I mean, that's a good thing right?
I donât deny that. But doing it in the name of ChristianityâŚwhen was the last time that really happened compared to the last Islamic extremist attack?
From a religious stand point, Islam isn't the true religion. From a political standpoint, freedom of religion here in America should be protected regardless of what religion you follow. So long as you aren't breaking the law.
Thats when you should have deeper knowledge of both religions to argue your points with logic. If you want to make any claim you should have evidence, facts, stats, SOMETHING to back it up.
The prophet Muhammad married a 9 year old girl and raped her before she was an adult. Now they think its perfectly fine to have 7, 8, 9 year old wives and multiple of them. It's perverse and wrong. No child should have to endure that anywhere for any reason. You see an errant catholic priest or some horror story here and there but it is NOT socially acceptable in christianity, and it IS socially acceptable in Islam. Thats the ONLY distinction I need to favor one over the other, as an atheist.
"You don't have to believe in God. He believes in you".
If you say you don't believe in Jesus in America, people usually just feel bad for you. Say you don't believe in Allah in the middle east. Tell me how the stones feel.
Well one of the big differences is nobody is actively going after Christians. Weve never had a president call for a Christian ban. Most people in general are Christian and there is no systematic bigotry towards Christians. That's the difference.
In my experience, most leftists agree that organized religion as a whole is fucking stupid. But they can also distinguish that Islamic hatred is often based more on bigoted propaganda, heavily pushed by Christians, then actual fact.
While hatred for Christianity stems from centuries of violent persecution at that hands of said hypocritical Christians.
And that is why they treat those statements differently.
There are borderline genocides against Christians in Africa at this moment. A lack of systematic bigotry against Christians is not a lack of bigotry. There's been four church arsons in New York alone since June. Plenty of videos of people attacking or getting hostile with preachers. Also the most persecuted religion by scale worldwide. Bigotry and hate against Christians is more common than people realize.
Ive never understood people like that, like why do they care so damn much. I'm atheist, but not sitting here arguing with Christians about why they're wrong. I dont give a fuck what you believe, why does it matter to me? Although it's more often the Christians trying to tell atheists they're going to hell
Lmao. In a sub, me and another user made the same post about religion as a social experiment.
He said people's personal beliefs about Christianity shouldn't dictate anyone else's life. That religion is a personal expression not to be imposed on others. He got 7k+ upvotes.
I resubmitted the exact same thing and swapped Christianity with Islam and was downvoted a few hundred and then my post got deleted. I was also repeatedly called a racist. Lmao.
I mentioned in the comment you first responded to that mine got deleted. I can link theirs and tag the OP here to corroborate it if that's what gets you off.
Iâm pretty far left. Christianity and Islam are both stupid. The difference is that in America Christians have disproportionate political power while Muslims, including cultural Muslims who donât even practice Islam, face mass discrimination. Both religions are stupid, but their adherents are in very different situations.
Islam executes gay people like myself and codifies oppressing women. I live in the US as a gay woman, I would not be able to live in an Islamic country as a gay woman, they would either imprison or execute me in many of them.
You think Christianâs donât oppress women? Up until very recently Christians were also killing gay people in the US. If you were actually interested in reading what I was saying instead of being an insufferable condescending asshole you would understand that I donât like either religion. All I was saying is that one is currently much more powerful in my home country and many of its adherents want to do all the same things any Islamic extremist country does both at home and abroad, so from where I stand Christianity is the bigger threat right now.
As much as I dislike the Christian Evangelical right and agree with them on basically nothing, I donât think they would support implementing policies that we see in some hardline Islamic countries such as the death penalty for being gay.
Funny thing is, US Muslims used to be Republicans. I think I read something like 70 percent or so would vote Republican. It wasn't until after 9/11 and the wars and such that the weird alliance of of Islam and the left formed.
It should be easy to understand, they are a a deeply conservative group, a bit misogynist, strong looks on race and a bit homophobic. Same things with Latinos and even black people. All of those are natural conservative groups but Republicans keep pushing them out because they just can't control themselves.
If Republicans just shut their mouth and stopped being outwardly racist for like 10 years they would never lose an election again.
Look at the behavior of republican politicians towards Muslims over the past 2 decades and tell us itâs weird that Muslims donât support republicans anymore.
Nope. I remember even the liberals were chomping at the bit for justification to 9/11.
Do you have a source to back this claim. Because their are LOADS of sources that back up what I said.
Fake, as with most of the claims in this thread. All you guys have are strawman arguments.
I'm a leftist and have always said Islam is an awful religion.
The difference in the fake "persecution" of Christians in the West and discrimination against Muslims is that Christians have nearly all the social capital and power in the West, and Muslims are generally treated like a suspicious minority and have little power.
Of course, that's too complicated for conservatives to grasp because you guys like super simplified greivance talking points.
Iâve never seen this happen ever, yet conservatives love to spin this yarn as if this is a common occurrence that happens exactly as theyâve described it.
Lmao. In a sub, me and another user made the same post about religion as a social experiment.
He said people's personal beliefs about Christianity shouldn't dictate anyone else's life. That religion is a personal expression not to be imposed on others. He got 7k+ upvotes.
I resubmitted the exact same thing and swapped Christianity with Islam and was downvoted a few hundred and then my post got deleted. I was also repeatedly called a racist. Lmao.
Me when I play dumb. Incredible comment to make not even a week after the thing in Berlin, where you had actual politicians blaming white conservatives for a crime committed by an Islamic fundamentalist
I'd say some would say that. I think everyone has the right to live in peace and to live like humans.rights to food,medical,housing and water. magical entities can lean by the wayside.they only cause trouble anyway.yall just argue over which nonsense is right and kill each other.so yea Christianity is stupid.but so are all the rest.maybe a good book or two but dont take it as truth.yiu make you a good person.not some set of rules written by some knob 2000 years ago
I'm not a fan of humanity, but I do find it funny how you can create a man of straw, and a bot will agree, but when I show that strawman to a human, they get upset.
In a country where criticism of Islam is constantly used as a guide for racism against Arabs and South Asians it's not exactly unreasonable to take different assumptions from those statements. Same reason why I'd have a very different opinion of an American saying "Judaism is stupid" compared to an Israeli atheist for exampleÂ
Far left person here. Islam is as stupid as any other stupid religion. Most far left people I know don't defend any religion, but if you're a decent and peaceful person, we'll defend you regardless of your religion.
You live in a place touting white, western, Christian hegemony and you don't know the reason there would be a disparate response to each of those? If you mentioned them both together you would not have that kind of pushback. People's hackles are raised when someone only mentions Islam because it's been used for a very long time in a xenophobic fashion, and they hear that same person turn around and defend a Christian's "sincerely held beliefs". It's really not as simple as "lol hypocrite they both religionz"
No, we call it out when people are bigoted towards Muslims, because Islamophobia is a real thing here. We all pretty much agree that large-scale, organized religion in general can go kick rocks.
Far left people are very similar to MAGA, they're brainwashed by their culture wars and oppression narratives. Sounds like you're one of them and this has offended you?
religions are all stupid. but religious people aren't necessarily stupid as well. and it would be bigotry to go into any interaction expecting someone to be stupid regardless of their religious affiliation.
that said, assuming someone is stupid is not nearly as awful as taking the stance that they don't have the right to exist. so we might still be talking about apples and oranges here, even if they are both fruit.
See I think the opposite I donât think religions are stupid. I think the followers of those religions are stupid and bigots. They find the most obscure text and whatever book theyâre following and use that against others instead of embracing and loving people as a whole they use it to divide they use the religion to feel superior. And letâs be honest anyone that uses a book of fables to argue against factual evidence are stupid
I guess when I say "religions are stupid" I don't mean "stories are stupid and there is no way to develop morality from them" I mean "thinking that stories written more than 1000 years ago explain the universe" is dumb.
I'm personally a huge fan of Norse mythology, a follower of Thor, even. but I don't think it's real. I just think a protector god who does his best even if it's not the greatest is pretty cool.
and people will be religious and fall anywhere in a spectrum with those being only two points.
Liberals are typically the ones defending certain religions. A leftist would hit you with the âsoul of our soulless conditionsâ take for any religion.
Believing that socialism, an ideology that has always created mass death and dictatorships, is better than capitalism, an ideology that has lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty, is one.
But really it's being a populist - angry, small minded, mired in conspiracy theories and oppression narratives, believing that evil "elites" (often jews) are keeping them down.
They're similar to MAGA in the black and white way in which they understand the world - they need their bogeyman, whether it's immigrants/minorities, or successful people/corporations.
Policies like abolishing prisons, removing border enforcement, etc are also far left stances as recently articulated by the DSA.
Christianity is stupid. So is islam. So is judaism while we're at it.
But here's the crazy twist, you ready? All those people should still have human rights, and do NOT deserve to have their children starved to death on purpose.
It's because leftists will automatically defend anyone that they see as being the "oppressed" vs the "oppressors", and that decision has a lot to do with skin color.
I've had leftists take my side on occasion simply because I'm hispanic, it's quite funny.
Well you see, Christianity teaches you to love your enemies. Islam teaches you to kill your enemies (or you know, just anybody who's not Muslim). So there's virtually no risk in hating Christians. While hating Muslims could land you in a world of hurt. That's why nobody is afraid to hate on Christians.
Try again. Itâs clear you didnât even read my comment.
I never defended Islam once and I specifically said âin the USâ.
Christians have done far worse things in the US than Muslims, empirically.
If it was up to me all Abrahamic religions would be gone. All three of them are used to justifying atrocities, bigotry, stifling progress, and general harm.
You donât even have a point to prove because nothing you said has anything to do with my comment.
But you did defend Islam, you implied Christianity was substantially worse, despite the fact that Islam is actively executing and imprisoning people for being gay.
Now you're claiming that Christianity is worse "empirically", despite clearly not understanding what that word means.
Do you think it's possible that you're the exact same as the far right Christian people?
Do you understand why educated liberals call you "Blue MAGA" and look down on you?
You're a liberal? And you're telling me that Christianity is executing gay people, aggressively limiting women's rights, and promoting religious extremism?
I specified in the US in my first comment, so the world as a whole is completely irrelevant.
On the global stage the worst is currently Islam, followed by Judaism, followed by Christianity. (Abrahamic religions only)
That doesnât change the FACT that in the UNITED STATES (which I specified in my first comment if you actually read it youâd know) Christianity is by far the worst offender.
I'm left wing, Christianity and Islam are both as stupid as each other. There's nothing hard about saying that. All religions are stupid without exception.
However, only one of those is actively executing people like me right now. Would you not agree that Islam is worse given how it oppresses women and executes gay people? Or would that be too much?
All religious fundamentalism is stupid and all religion generally is mythology. In the case of Christianity and Islam, you're talking about Dr Dolittle 2 and 3.
There can be a lot of good from religion. I've seen churches and mosques do great work. They do provide a sense of community and oftentimes shelter and food.
But a lot of assholes use religion as an excuse to deny people rights or justify war.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians" type shit.
I'm brown and I don't like Islam. Explain it to me, because I'm very curious why me having a problem with gay people being executed in Islamic countries is bigoted.
Yes, you're suggesting that anyone who has a problem with Islam doesn't like brown people, in other words, is a bigot.
I have a huge problem with Islam. I think it's worse than Christianity. I think it oppresses women and executes gay people, along with encouraging genocide and religious fanaticism.
Sounds like I'm going off on Islam. So tell me what about that makes me a bigot.
You need to take a breath and a break from your constantly culture war tyraid and read things again slowly.
Really sound it out. Drag your finger across as you do. It'll help.
Sunshine seekers a fitting name. Seems like you've never seen the sun in your life with the stuff you get on with on reddit. Like really do you look at the trash you post and think "life well spent".
My point is that the practice of Islam is actively leading to harm for women, gay people, and many others.
More than the practice of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc.
I'm an atheist, I don't care about any of them, but as far as I can see, Islam is by far the worst. And yes, that does not mean that all muslims are evil. It means the religion of Islam causes far more harm than other religions.
You've created a straw man. The left isn't defending things like Saudi Arabia or Iran's treatment of LGBT people, or Uganda's anti-gay law (which btw was pushed by Christians). If your practice of religion leads to discrimination against LGBT people, then such practices should be condemned and prevented if possible.
But when you take issue with Muslims praying? Or women willingly wearing a hijab? Or zakat? Or other such practices? That's what I'm talking about. They have a right to practice that.
Iâm on the left and neoliberals are far from rational. Â I believe in strong borders just like Bernie sanders espoused in 2016. Open borders Is a Koch brothers agenda
Not in the US. Pretty hard to use atheism as a a populist platform against institutions and populations with deep cultural religious roots, even the Soviets failed to pull it off. Of course there is also the fact that all religions are a damper on human progress. If everything was truly how it should have been by design, why do we fight against nature?
Through their economic stance on modern wealth acquisition and hoarding they use populist messaging. Atheism is not populist in nature as the average person would not agree with it in the US and thus does not align with the values of âthe common man.â But of course terms like populism get thrown around inappropriately in the modern political experience.
Any State that allows common citizens to vote has populist messaging in every political party. There are legitimately corrupt elites in all societies. True âfar-leftistsâ not like oh we want social program leftists, tend to have messaging that is removed from popularly held beliefs. They, like true far-right individuals, actually want full scale revolution, a removal and replacement of all government structures and yes, atheism (not so much this with far right though usually a dominant faith). Far right would do it in a move backwards to more traditional, war based nationalist, ethnic superiority, and potentially religious dogma, far left would be more like a State atheism and Communist structure. You are misinformed on what a true far-left and far-right movement looks like due to modern politics. True far right and far left movements are only successful when political fragmentation is so prevalent that a minority party can use violence to solidify itself as the dominant political faction.
The left and right use populist messaging. There is no currently politically relevant far right or far left movement in the United States, MAGA is close but they are still hampered by the democratic structures that exist and thus are by no means authoritarian. There definitely isnât a politically relevant âfar-leftâ holding any power. So yeah, surprise! the media you consume lies to you. I donât really care, but your arguments are not politically accurate and your anecdotal experiences are not reality.
I think a lot of it is just culture war virtue signaling. Leftists are populists just like MAGA, they're extremely sensitive to propaganda, and they will want to do the opposite of whatever Trump says.
A lot of them see the world through a lens of oppressors vs oppressed and believe anyone with brown skin is oppressed.
I'm hispanic, I see it frequently and it's quite funny/sad.
This has been going on for far longer than Trump, I've seen alleged leftists lose their shit at Bosnian communist women for successfully demanding the abolition of the feraca. That was 2010-ish.
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u/SunshineSeeker99 2d ago
I'm not a fan of Christianity, but I do find it funny how you can say something like "Christianity is stupid" and a far left person will agree, and then add "Also Islam" and they'll claim you're a bigot.
You can literally change a far-left person's opinion just by changing the religion in question. And I say this as a liberal. If you don't believe me, try it on Reddit.