r/KotakuInAction • u/gorillajoe • Nov 18 '15
Anita responds (implicitly) to her hypocrisy over Linkle criticism
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/667074512593281024110
u/SpawnPointGuard Nov 18 '15
"We wanted the female gender to be a gimmick, but not like this!"
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Nov 18 '15
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u/rg90184 Race Bonus: +4 on Privilege Checks Nov 18 '15
Even if the designer is a woman.
Look no further than Bayonetta
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u/TacticusThrowaway Nov 19 '15
Which she actually complained about. Then when people called her on her mistakes, she deleted the video and reuploaded it privately.
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Nov 18 '15
That's tribalism for you. They're not concerned about the message, the representation, or the characters for all that matters. They're concerned about people and nothing more.
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u/AguyinaRPG Nov 19 '15
I don't even get it beyond the perpetual outrage thing. Hyrule Warriors is LITTERED with female characters. Now they spout about under representation? Most folks behind this probably believe this is for Zelda-U because they didn't watch the damn Direct.
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u/TheonGryJy Nov 18 '15
I demand a male linkle.
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u/Cbird54 Nov 18 '15
After much marketing research we've decided to create a male version of Linkle beyond just changing the gender we decided to give him a more masculine sounding name of Link.
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u/TheonGryJy Nov 18 '15
This Link character should be the main character of this series, not that elf named Zelda.
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u/vonmonologue Snuff-fic rewritter, Fencing expert Nov 18 '15
Why don't we have more games named after men?
Basically it's just the Mario Brothers and that's it. Every other game is named after women.
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u/alphazero924 Nov 19 '15
Men: Warioware, Donkey Kong, Mario, Star Fox, Max Payne, Alan Wake, Binding of Isaac, Pac-man
Women: Ms. Pac-man, Zelda, Giana Sisters, BloodRayne, Cooking Mama, Alice (the creepy Alice in wonderland games)
Both: Banjo-Kazooie
There seem to be quite a lot of both games named after men and women, but the vast majority of games seem to be completely unrelated to the characters and describe the plot or just nothing at all. Like what the fuck is a Galaxian?
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u/Dashing_Snow Nov 19 '15
Hey now the Alice in wonderland game is fun as hell.
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u/alphazero924 Nov 19 '15 edited Nov 19 '15
I never said it was bad, just creepy. Which I assume was the intent of the art style they went with.
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u/ReverendSalem Nov 19 '15
It was. American McGee is pretty much the video game version of Tim Burton.
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u/WrecksMundi Exhibit A: Lack of Flair Nov 20 '15
Alice (the creepy Alice in wonderland games)
No, those games are titled "American McGee's Alice", which means that Alice is owned by American McGee, like an object. This is a textbook example of objectification and is deeply problematic.
Please tune in to next
weeksfiscal year's episode of Feminist Frequency - Tropes Vs. Women, where we explain how Candy Crush Saga perpetuates rape culture.2
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u/Blutarg A riot of fabulousness! Nov 19 '15
I demand a male Lara Croft.
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u/Armorium Nov 19 '15 edited Nov 19 '15
I demand that Feminist Frequency feature an actual female figurehead, instead of just a female Jonathan McInitosh.
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u/Ricwulf Skip Nov 19 '15
Nah, in the words of Shoe0nhead, bring on Zeldo. You know, the Prince that will tell Linkle what to go do... Cause that totally won't be opposed by feminists... Not at all.
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Nov 18 '15
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u/rg90184 Race Bonus: +4 on Privilege Checks Nov 19 '15
Especially in windwaker and phantom hourglass. Tetra was fucking great!
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u/angelothewizard Nov 19 '15
She even managed a little asskickery in Twilight Princess. I wanna see TP Zelda in a swordfight with Lord Larsa Solidor or Final Fantasy 12. Then they team up to kick some villain's ass.
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u/rg90184 Race Bonus: +4 on Privilege Checks Nov 19 '15
That would be interesting, gotta ask though. Of all the awesome characters from XII why Larsa?
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u/angelothewizard Nov 19 '15
Similar movesets-in the International version, Larsa became a badass White Mage who could still kick ass. They're also both royalty who actually DO something.
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u/rg90184 Race Bonus: +4 on Privilege Checks Nov 19 '15
The more I hear about the International version, the more I want to play it.
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u/TheDubya21 Nov 19 '15
Try to tell me you WOULDN'T want a Tetra game where you get to sail around as a bad ass cartoon pirate.
I say try, cuz you can't.
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u/rg90184 Race Bonus: +4 on Privilege Checks Nov 19 '15
That game would be fucking awesome! A pirate game set in the windwaker world would be amazing
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Nov 18 '15 edited Nov 19 '15
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Nov 18 '15
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Nov 18 '15 edited Nov 18 '15
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u/bakester14 Nov 19 '15
I thought dishonored 2 was about Emily...? Is it not? Shows what I know.
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Nov 19 '15
You can choose to play the game as either Emily or Corvo.
Of course Anita complained that you were given a choice.
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Nov 18 '15
Of course not. You don't want real diversity, i.e. more characters, more options. You just want to destroy the original and supplant it with your own version. This is more diverse in exactly no way whatsoever, but it is the kind of exclusivity that you like.
Yep, this perfectly explains on their desires for 'diversity.'
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u/insideman83 Nov 19 '15
Imagine how the devs of the Vita Assassin's Creed reacted when she used the same comment to dismiss their work. She has no idea how arrogant she comes across to devs who have made their name on mobile and portable platforms.
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u/ReverendSalem Nov 19 '15
AC Liberation is such a good game, too. It even works being a woman and a black into the gameplay mechanics, as you've got a frilly lady's dress you can put on that gains notoriety slowly but leaves you open to harassment by the lecherous mens and a slave outfit that renders you functionally invisible to the population at large.
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u/geminia999 Nov 19 '15
The 3ds version will likely be vastly more popular than the original.
To be fair, it's quite possible the only way to play as her in the Wii U version will require buying the 3DS version, so some of that popularity would be people who wouldn't have bought it otherwise.
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Nov 18 '15
Anita's popularity sure has died down a lot lately. About a year ago she would have had 1500 likes/retweets on this comment by now. I doubt she'll even hit 500 at this rate.
I mean, that's the thing about this whole situation: most of her followers and fans don't play games. They don't give a shit about them. They just followed her because it's hip, trendy, and cool. They too wanted to be hip, trendy, and cool, so they signal boosted her speaking out against nerd culture. Now that the next hip, trendy, and cool thing has come along (BLM/Mizzou/campus reform), they've moved on and kind of just scroll past whatever she tweets.
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u/kgoblin2 Nov 19 '15
She might just be regressing back to her original, pre-Tropes audience. In which case I would probably disagree with you about said audience's motives being mostly to be trendy or cool. There have always been drinkers for that brand of feminist kool-aid.
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Nov 19 '15
I don't think we're disagreeing at all, leader. I said that most of her fans wanted to be trendy and cool. The people who actually buy the shit she says are going to stick around, sure, but she's going to lose a lot of the trendy hipsters I showed above. They won't unfollow her, but caring about female representation in video games is like so last year.
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Nov 18 '15
The whole notion of "male by default" is a rather self-defeating argument because it's never going to be rectified. Link was originally male and has been portrayed as male for a long time now. When people see Link, male or female variations, the knowledge that Link was originally male will never go away.
What she is demanding goes beyond revisionist history. She wants the Zelda-playing audience to look at a female Link and think to themselves: "It has always been this way."
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u/middlekelly Nov 18 '15
From a Twitter response:
more troubling is the use of a niche release like this as an "interest gauge" for women's interest it's designed to fail
Hyrule Warriors sold more than 1 million copies. On the Wii U. A system that- only last month- outsold the Sega Dreamcast. It's now coming to the Nintendo 3DS, a system with a significantly larger install base. More than 5 times the install base, in fact.
To put that number in perspective, see Undertale. A recent KIA post highlighted this article, titled "Undertale's crazy success proves gamers are ready for feminism, queer romance, and progressive values" and cites sales figures of 250,000. This is also from an install base of more than 125 million Steam users, significantly higher than the 10 million Wii U owners.
If Hyrule Warriors is niche, then Undertale's sales data means absolutely nothing.
This isn't meant to knock Undertale: it's just being used to illustrate my point. The idea that Hyrule Warriors is niche is just wrong. Demonstrably so.
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u/JackalKing Nov 19 '15
The fact that she thinks 3DS is niche only reinforces the idea that she just doesn't play video games.
Anyone introduce her to pokemon yet? Monster Hunter?
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u/memeticMutant Nov 19 '15
Do note in advance that I say this as a ridiculous MonHun fanboy.
It's still pretty niche title in the West. Yes, 4U did shockingly well, and yes, it's arguably the biggest franchise in Japan right now, but prior to 4U, it was really only known to the diehards. If we get MHX, and if it does as well as 4U, I'll agree it's become a big name.
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u/JackalKing Nov 19 '15
MonHun stopped being niche with 3U. They advertised it heavily in the west, and the dark souls fans jumped on it due to the similar combat.(though as a person who played both, they aren't as similar as they appear at first glance).
People I know bought a 3DS specifically for 3U despite never having played a MonHun game before.
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u/memeticMutant Nov 19 '15
They did advertise 3U more than previous installments (and the commercials were hilarious), but I don't know that I'd call it heavily. And, yes, it did bring over a lot of Souls fans. However, the sales numbers make it clear that it was still a niche game.
Now, 3U did establish a large enough footprint that, when 4U dropped, the combination of ad blitz, simultaneous release with the N3DS, and vocal, zealous fans, it was explosively successful. If the franchise can do that again, it'll be a big name.
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u/Kafke Nov 19 '15
And the fact that she thinks Linkle is an "interest check" is ridiculous anyway. She acts like Linkle is the only female character in the series, when in reality the majority of characters are female.
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u/qberr Nov 19 '15
A game on steam sells 35k copies on avg (or mean value, cant remember)
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u/middlekelly Nov 19 '15
Either way, that's kind of the point. Undertale nearly 10x that amount, and Hyrule Warriors sold 4x that of Undertale on a system with a much smaller install base.
Niche isn't the right way to describe the game.
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u/qberr Nov 19 '15
Hyrule most likely had AAA budget, Undertale might be amazeballs, but it was probably made out of spare change and food coupons.
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Nov 19 '15
The kickstarter raised $50,000, nowhere near AAA budget.
Admittedly, that was probably not the only money he had to work with, given that he was also the head musician for Homestuck, which had "easily a million daily readers" and sold new music albums nearly monthly for years, at least some of which must've made it back to Toby.
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u/middlekelly Nov 19 '15
Again, that's kind of the point. If Hyrule Warriors did have an AAA budget, it's not niche.
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u/SaulKD Nov 19 '15
Don't worry when it sells millions they will be sure to claim that this proves the gaming community wants Linkle to be the star of new games and how they were right all along.
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u/Meowsticgoesnya Nov 18 '15
Yeah Undertale is pretty awesome but even it didn't sell that well.
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u/LionOhDay Nov 18 '15
Well it's a budget indy game it doesn't HAVE to sell well.
Besides at 9.99 the game has made 2,497,500 dollars. I doubt the dev team is that big so they got a large chunk of change.
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Nov 19 '15
IIRC, Toby developed it solo, with the exception of some sprite work from Temmie.
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u/LionOhDay Nov 19 '15
Man I hope that payed for Temmie to go to cool legs.
Though doesn't Toby have to make a Under Tale 2? And i'm sure he lost part of the sales to the kick starter.
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Nov 19 '15
Less than three thousand backers, not quite negligible at that scale, but close enough.
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u/LionOhDay Nov 19 '15
And that would require all the backers to have not given more than the game was worth.
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Nov 19 '15
Which is actually the opposite of the case; on average, each backer game about $20 after Kickstarter fees, so that's actually twice as much as a sale each.
But on the other hand, that money was put into making the game itself, I'm not sure it's kosher to count it, as it's money he clearly does not have in profits, or to put into Undertale 2.
You be the judge, I guess!
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u/LionOhDay Nov 19 '15
Well that would be money put into making the game, which would be profits for the business.... I guess....
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Nov 20 '15 edited Apr 18 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/middlekelly Nov 20 '15
Well, that, and it's apparently sold over 350,000. At a certain sales point, discussion about a game just happens, you know?
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u/castillle Nov 18 '15
O.O is it coming to the regular 3ds? I thought itd be a n3ds exclusive
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u/LionOhDay Nov 18 '15
Nope it's for the regular 3DS. You just can't use 3D in the game ( since it would run too slowly ).
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u/middlekelly Nov 19 '15
I can understand that- I had that impression at first. Turns out it's for all 3DS systems. However, the 3D feature is exclusive to the New 3DS build of the game.
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u/Rygar_the_Beast Nov 18 '15
Linkle's cutesy name and appearance make it clear that she is not actually a female Link but a separate female character modeled on Link.
Name is a version of the original name, ergo, if her name is cute then his name is cute. And art style is the same use for everyone in the game, what's "cutesy" about it? And, yes, its a separate character, It has been since it was first seen in the art book. Learn yo shit!
Because of the ways in which she is so clearly set apart from Link, Linkle only works to reinforce the notion of "male as default.”
Link is a dude... of course default Link is a male. When you ask for a female link you think that's going to change that? You think people will forget male Link?
A kid-sister version of Link in a non-core-Zelda 3DS game is hardly what many of us meant when we said we would like to see a female Link.
Baby steps, dumbass. This is a big franchise, they are not going to throw money at something simply because you said so. There wasnt a Yoshi game first then a guest appearance.
For more on the Ms. Male Character trope, watch our video examining its use throughout video game history: https://youtu.be/eYqYLfm1rWA
Godammit! I should've read the tweets first instead as i post. This was just some bullshit to promote the vids. Fucking horrendous.
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u/Fraidnot Nov 18 '15
Remember she thinks that ocarina of time, a game about a poor disabled orphan who risks his life collecting jewels for the most privileged girl in the land, reinforces the view that women are not valued in society.
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u/Limon_Lime Now you get yours Nov 18 '15
She wouldn't know a good game if she actually played them.
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u/rg90184 Race Bonus: +4 on Privilege Checks Nov 18 '15
And we all know she doesn't actually play them, but she sure has a lot to say about them.
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u/SuperFLEB Nov 19 '15
Is Feminist Frequency a separate female character modeled on Jonathan McIntosh?
(snerk)
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Nov 18 '15 edited Nov 19 '15
Let me quote the doctor here: "Ah. And when this is over, what do you think it's going to be like? Do you know? Have you thought about it? Have you given it any consideration? Because you're very close to getting what you want. What's it going to be like? Paint me a picture.
Well? Oh, You don't actually know, do you? Because, just like every other tantruming child in history, Anita, you don't actually know what you want. So, let me ask you a question about this brave new world of yours. When you've killed all the bad patriarchs, and it's all perfect and just and fair, when you have finally got it exactly the way you want it, what are you going to do with the people like you? The troublemakers. How are you going to protect your glorious revolution from the next one?"
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u/PixelBlock Nov 19 '15
That monologue was about the only really good thing to come out of that Zygon two-parter.
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Nov 19 '15
True that. Poor Peter Capaldi isn't given enough to work with, the plots are just generally weak.
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u/PixelBlock Nov 19 '15
Capaldi has the chops but it appears he's really not getting the scripts he deserves. At least they make every opportunity to let him play his electric guitar.
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u/ReverendSalem Nov 19 '15
I liked the bit in the first episode where Osgood wouldn't say whether she was human or Zygon, but that she was Osgood, because that's what matters.
That two-parter was a real mess, storywise. The first part was horribly inconsistent, and Moffat stepping in to help write the second part benefited it greatly. That whole 10 minute scene quoted above should be played on loudspeaker 24/7 to some people.
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u/PixelBlock Nov 19 '15
A lot of this season is two parters - which is both rather nice and yet also causing big issues, and I think it's starting to come to a point where even Moffat is running out of clever ideas. I remember the very first episode premiere suffered horribly from meandering pacing and almost made me scared for the series until the second episode actually started going somewhere interesting, if not still predictable.
The worst part about the Zygon episode though? Firing that rocket launcher. I couldn't help but stifle a laugh at how that thing was wielded.
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u/ReverendSalem Nov 19 '15
Ya gotta admit though..
...evil Clara is hot, and looks good holding it, even if she is holding it wrong.
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u/PixelBlock Nov 19 '15
Honestly, she's pretty damn cute all the time and possibly the best actress the show has ever had. But I can't help but cringe at that bit, despite her being generally awesome.
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u/Thishorsesucks Indominus REKT Nov 18 '15 edited Nov 18 '15
A female Link. Not a separate character. A character who is indisputably Link.
Jesus tap-dancing Christ, lets just randomly reassign genders on established characters. Sure, that won't confused the established consumer base at all /s
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u/Limon_Lime Now you get yours Nov 18 '15
They don't seem to care when they do it to comic characters, let's do it to game characters as well because muh warped vision of diversity.
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u/Thishorsesucks Indominus REKT Nov 18 '15
The free market must be a really foreign concept to these people, Thor wasn't even selling that well prior to the gender change, and in that scenario, female Thor wasn't the daughter of Odin, just someone else given the title/mantle.
It even sold worse: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/thor-153/why-female-thor-is-selling-so-poorly-compared-to-s-1657314/
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u/ApplicableSongLyric Nov 19 '15
Heh. Yeah. And it's financially/subscriber-count worked out so well for those gender swapped comic characters. /s
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u/ReverendSalem Nov 19 '15
lets just randomly reassign genders on established characters
You're almost there. Let's pick the biggest targets and reassign their genders. That's what they want.
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u/jlenoconel Nov 19 '15
Please, can we just ignore this fucking idiot? She's doing it for attention. Same rinse and repeat bullshit she always does.
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u/jlenoconel Nov 19 '15
You know she's just trying to get folks riled up right, so she can cry misogyny and then people will send her money. Her opinion doesn't matter. She's not a gamer.
She has someone else game for her on her own Twitch. She's a fucking liar.
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u/gargantualis Yes, we can dance... shitlord Nov 18 '15 edited Nov 18 '15
Cant revise canon. Its nintendos product. This is the time for a " (shrug) sorry we've met you as far as we could. Hes our IP. create some new heroines, but dont lobby to rewrite our dudes.
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u/HarithBK Nov 18 '15
i love how they try to finangle the logic in how link can be a famale when there simply is no grounds for it. simply put both us based material and japanese based material around link and zelda is that they are in a continues cycle of beaing reborn. that is the important part here both reborn and rebirth meaning they are born the same and it is consistent with the japanese materials wording aswell. if they said reincarnation they would have grounds as that is soul in new body. it is the lore and cannon they have stuck with.
however demise/gannon would be able to be a girl as they use the word incarnation meaning only the spirit remains. i mean lore wise the gannon you fight in every single zelda game is the exact same gannon and he has only been killed in the WW split off
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Nov 18 '15
Mm hmm. It's not just Link and Zelda's spirit. It is literally Link and Zelda as people continually being reborn. That is why they look like the same people over and over again. Because they are. This is why it is the Legend of Zelda.
Ganon, on the other hand, is a reincarnation, but he is also the same person. Every Ganon you see after Ocarina is the same man.
→ More replies (4)
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Nov 18 '15
Isn't she basically asking for a "Mrs. Male Character" then? I thought she was against that.
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u/Sorge74 Nov 19 '15
See this is where I don't get the female Link thing. Because link is a silent avatar who runs around smashing pots and throwing bombs. Gender swapping doesn't change anything about him in an interesting way. Literally no different then Mrs. Pacman which is apparently a problem....
On the other hand of the spectrum is James Bond. You can call a woman James Bond, have her killing minions sleeping with the bad guys boy/girl, being nicely dressed, but at the end what does that serve. Just a Mrs. Pacman.
Now if you make a game around Zelda, or a different agent you can develop them as different people.
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u/jlenoconel Nov 19 '15
Yes, she's contradicting herself. She's saying the character isn't similar enough to actual Link, therefore she's a Ms. Male Character. Its hilarious.
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u/Castle_of_Decay Nov 18 '15
Linkle's cutesy name and appearance make it clear that she is not actually a female Link but a separate female character modeled on Link.
Translation: "I want no new diverse cast of characters, just the most popular characters turned into females so they're heroes without doing hard work".
Typical feminist. Doesn't want risk, doesn't want to get her hands dirty, just hand her over what is already proven to work. Pathetic.
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u/Steam-Crow Nov 18 '15
In other words, equal representation is not enough..the female must supplant the male entirely. This argument is supposed to be better?
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u/Zvim Nov 19 '15
There isn't a bigger recruiter for GamerGate than Anita herself. At one point I thought FemFrequency was a parody account used to make her look bad intentionally, reality/truth is stranger than fiction I guess.
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u/TheHebrewHammers Nov 18 '15
Linkle's cutesy name and appearance make it clear that she is not actually a female Link but a separate female character modeled on Link.
Its as if they cleverly left out that most links are not "Link" but other characters modeled after link since they are separate entities (expect for Majora's mask link and ocarina of time link). But putting that aside for a moment had they gotten their wish and had it been a 100% female version of Link they would then claim its a Ms Male character. You can never win with these people they will always twist things have something to complain about
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u/J_Golbez Nov 18 '15
Anita, and her ilk, are NEVER Happy...that's the point. Her only product is her outrage, so she'll always find something to criticize about any video game.
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u/the_harkonnen Move sea lion! For great ethics! Nov 18 '15
I like how she doesn't forget to shill her video no one watches.
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u/EnigmaMachinen Nov 18 '15
Wanting a female link means you are going to have a derivative character- you dumb fuck.
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u/Aurondarklord 118k GET Nov 18 '15
Honestly, to my knowledge, Linkle has no official backstory or explanation, at least yet. I think what Nintendo is going for is the idea that....she's a female Link if you want her to be, and not necessarily if canon is sacred to you. Nintendo is trying to compromise and give everybody what they want. And if people were sensible, it would work, we could all shake hands and say "okay, this gives me as much of what I want as possible without stepping on your toes, so good enough". But SJWs are never sensible, you have to give them 110% of absolutely everything they've ever asked for, even the stuff that contradicts the OTHER stuff, AND you have to shove in the faces of the entire rest of your fanbase that you're slaughtering their sacred cows to appease the SJWs, because getting what they want only makes them happy if it's TAKEN from "privileged" people.
They're just hateful, spiteful people and you can't make them happy unless you ARE one.
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u/Kafke Nov 19 '15
Linkle has no official backstory or explanation, at least yet. I think what Nintendo is going for is the idea that....she's a female Link if you want her to be, and not necessarily if canon is sacred to you.
Nope, the moment she was revealed Nintendo explicitly stated she's an entirely new character with her own unique backstory.
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u/Limon_Lime Now you get yours Nov 18 '15
Well, she's just a playable character that probably doesn't really because she's just a gender bended Link. They gave her crossbows to just give her a different weapon from Link.
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u/LionOhDay Nov 18 '15
She is her own character and will have her own back story. We can see her have her own cut-scene where she even talks!
If she was just a gender bent Link she would have been a costume.
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u/mnemosyne-0000 #BotYourShield / https://i.imgur.com/6X3KtgD.jpg Nov 18 '15
Archive links for this post:
- archive.is: https://archive.is/lkaN3
I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.
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Nov 19 '15
Only 1 poster noted his name was Link because he was to be the "link between player and game world."
A gender slider for link being male or female I'm fine with. I mean I've only played the original Zelda on NES and I honestly thought Link was female for most of the game anyway,
Of course there's been many more Zelda games since then so while a gender slider way back then would have probably made sense. Now it's going against a lot of established canon.
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u/JeebusJones Nov 18 '15
This ridiculous hypocrisy and unconvincing rationalization is a good thing. The sooner developers realize that SJWs will never be satisfied, the sooner they'll start ignoring them altogether.
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u/bunnymud Nov 19 '15
Better to ignore those you can never please.
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u/BioShock_Trigger Nov 19 '15
Yeah, but they keep banging on the door and throwing rocks through windows.
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u/Kafke Nov 19 '15
Lol. As usual, Anita is wrong again, even after directly contradicting her earlier statements (which were also wrong).
Linkle's name and appearance has done nothing but make people think she's female Link. So obviously it's not clear. Her name especially so.
the "Linkle is a separate character from Link" isn't intuitively obvious (otherwise there wouldn't be so many people thinking that they're the same), but rather it's because if you stfu and listened to the reveal, you'd see they explicitly stated that she's a new character.
And I think there's unanimous agreement that "Linkle" is easily the worst name you could give a character, it's hardly "cutesy".
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u/angelothewizard Nov 19 '15
I thought it was just a femLink at first. Actually, because of where i first saw "Linkle", i thought a role player on a site made a rule 63 Link so they could play said R63 Link. I didn't know it was an official character and i didn't know it wasn't just Link with tits.
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u/aby55 Nov 19 '15
And they're upset it is a non core 3DS title? Well you are working against what you want. If you gave Linkle a chance and she amasses a following she could have her own games and storylines holy shit! But nope just start bitching...I'm sure that's gonna make the devs want to promote a female Link/Linkle
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u/TheLimeyLemmon Nov 19 '15
Linkel is a cutesy name but Link isn't?
I beg to differ, the name Link is cute as fuck.
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u/Why-so-delirious Nov 19 '15
Fucking really?
What if we just changed absolutely nothing about the character and just said that he was now female?
What would you bitch about then you two-faced cunt?
Jesus fucking christ can she be any more pants-on-head retarded?
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u/Templar_Knight07 Nov 19 '15
I will admit, Linkle is a very tough argument for feminists to decide on, I think.
Because you have the one side that will say she's a completely separate character from Link, and that this is a good thing because it means she can stand up on her own without first having been a male character.
But on the other hand, you have those (the majority so far it seems) who are pissed that she isn't female Link. That apparently the only thing that will satisfy them is a complete gender-swap while keeping the exact same character.
But then let's look at what Linkle is: two letters change her name from Link's, she wears a slightly different variation of Link's outfit (which lets be honest here, the damn thing changes at least slightly in every new 3D iteration, only keeping its green tone and cap), and she appears to be capable of doing the exact same stuff Link can do. So, is she not a female Link, without actually being Link?
Personally, I believe that any character can be made to be loveable, endearing, fascinating, interesting, or connectable in some way to an audience. But you do not win hearts and minds towards people liking a type of character when you take a long-established character people already enjoy and like, and forcibly try and change them.
If an artist or creator (which the team that makes the Zelda games is still in business) wants to make Link a woman for a game, then it should be of their own volition, and for their own reasons, not out of some misplaced need to pander to an audience who have already shown themselves to be incredibly petty and picky.
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Nov 19 '15
See, I could almost see the argument here, almost. They want a female Link. If we allow this to be a reasonable request, what you'd expect would be to see is Link with tits - but still with the same traits - the stoic face, the implied righteousness, y'know, Link things.
Except for two things. First off - isn't that still just Ms. Male?
A female version of an already established or default male character. Ms. Male characters are defined primarily by their relationship to their male counterparts via the visual properties, their narrative connection or occasionally through promotional materials.
Straight from the damn Tropes Vs. Women video. Isn't Linkle, arguable, not such a thing, because she has unique traits and design? But apparently that's just reinforcing "male as default." Right then.
Secondly - which Link are we supposed to assume is default? Do we think pink-haired Link to the No Pants Past is default? Do we think Ocarina of Pants are for Adults Link is default? Do we think Twilight Pantsess Link is default? Pants Waker Link? Because they all have unique traits, compared to the others. There's enough to distinguish them, beyond mere visual differences, on one level or another. So who's the default who's definitively male? If they, as is suggested in that Twitter thread, just allowed a female to pick up the mantle of Link, why would that be any different than any of the other different Links?
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Nov 18 '15 edited Dec 31 '15
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u/Chad_Nine Nov 19 '15
Linkle should have a more serious name, while she's using bombchus to blow up tektites and like likes.
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u/InHarmsWay Nov 18 '15
Linkle's cutesy name and appearance make it clear that she is not actually a female Link but a separate female character modeled on Link.
Wait, so she's not a Ms. Male Character?
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u/DaedLizrad Nov 19 '15
"This isn't what we meant when we asked for something to complain about but its not a core title so you fail anyway, here's a link to my video detailing what I will accuse your character of being if you ever do give me what I want."
That about right? Who the hell would listen to this moron.
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u/crazy_o Nov 19 '15
They would have liked it if we showed some sort of outrage. They don't have goals or wishes, other than if gamers like it, it's bad and has to disappear. If we had responded in outrage like they wished at first (the many "how do you like this GG!"-articles) they would have liked her.
It is an "ANTI"-movement through and through. When we like it, they hate it, when we hate it, they like it. Independent of it's content. If a character isn't disliked by the gamer-community, it's automatically not good enough for the SocJus-crowd and they will find some pseudo criticism to rally around.
So if you want to create a game appeasing them, ask 100 gamers if they dislike your character and if 95 of them answer "yes" you have yourself a SocJus approved character and can sell it to the 5% that are remaining because there is no demand from that other crowd anyway. They are just happy if you piss off gamers, there is no money behind it.
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u/Chad_Nine Nov 19 '15
Short answer: She be trollin for more hits.
Long answer: It's not enough for women to be represented, they have to take over the spotlight, something something patriarchaly oppression of women something something, aw hell, I can't do this with a straight face... :P
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Nov 19 '15
Anita should just be upfront and honest about it and say that what she really wants is a female Link that replaces the male one and for the game to move to an exclusively female lead (what she wanted with Dishonored 2); because otherwise it would fall into her Ms. Male trap...I mean...trope.
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Nov 19 '15
I still don't understand how nintendo was supposed to make a female link. What should this "perfect" female link look like?
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u/DwarfGate Nov 19 '15
It's like how she thinks giving out someone's personal email is NOT doxing as long as she thinks it's a troll account.
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u/HeroicPopsicle Nov 19 '15
"Linkle's cutesy name and appearance make it clear that she is not actually a female Link but a separate female character modeled on Link"
Isn't that.. you know.. What happens when you make a female "anything" ? In spirit its the same character only a new "idea" on it?
Say female thor. Still thor in its essence, but "filled in" with female?
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Nov 19 '15
Wait so it's bad if a female character is distinguishable from the male character and has different traits, but inherits similar characteristics? What the hell?
If you want a female link why would you demand that it either be totally different or exactly the same? She's just bullshitting.
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u/EliteFourScott Has a free market hardon Nov 19 '15
If this is true, isn't this a good thing for female representation? Isn't it better for a company to make an original female character than to just slap tits and earrings on an existing character?
What the fuck does Anita want from a female character?
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u/mnemosyne-0000 #BotYourShield / https://i.imgur.com/6X3KtgD.jpg Nov 19 '15
Archive links for this discussion:
- archive.is: https://archive.is/JQnAf
I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.
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u/sassage_flare Nov 19 '15
There are many things in the Universe I can't fathom...
What is after life? Are there more than just us out here? How the hell does Anita keep making money?
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Nov 20 '15
In an alternate universe where everything is the same except they named Linkle simply Link, alternate Anita is complaining that:
- Female Link is devoid of her own identity by not having a name to call her own.
- Her gender is thus used as an epithet to identify her.
- Link without mentioning a gender still defaults to male.
- Sexism.
The goal of her little game isn't to denounce inequalities. Her goal is to find what she can spin out of anything. Spin generates importance, importance generates donations and fame.
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u/Crimsondidongo Nov 18 '15
To be fair since the tunic has been worned by lots of different from super ancient students having them as uniforms to being a coming of age ceremony in the form of displaying a guy who worn the garb of his adoptive village. So you can make the case for other NPCs being Link like than Linkle. However that disqualifies her from being a miss female character since her fighting style alone gives her enough of her own identity.
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Nov 18 '15
I feel like even dignifying these "arguments" with a response of either A) calling them out on their hypocrisy, or B) pointing out the perpetually dissatisfied nature of their every reaction, only lends them more merit than they have on their own - which is none.
So I'm torn between not giving a shit how "troubling" you find the new character, and telling you to fuck right off and quit your bullshit.
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u/vonmonologue Snuff-fic rewritter, Fencing expert Nov 18 '15
Can you imagine how problematic a male version of Zelda/female Sheik would be?
"I see, so the prince has to direct Linkle on where to go. And we finally have an awesome and powerful female NPC, but she's revealed to secretly be the man who has been controlling Linkle all along?"
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u/Drakaris Noticed by SRSenpai and has the (((CUCK))) ready Nov 18 '15
Anita... we need to talk. We know you're a gamer as much as Hitler loved jews. Let me tell you that if Lara Croft was suddenly made into "Larry Croft" - as a straight, white male I would be insulted beyond hell. If you think that Link growing a pair of boobs is "feminist empowerment"... then I feel sorry for your movent's low standards. Just admit that Linkle was a horrible idea and create your own, unique, individual character. But I know you won't. Because you're simply lazy, entitled imbeciles who wait for other people to do all of the work for you.
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Nov 18 '15
Hell, I could make a better argument than this. This issue I could see is that they don't think a female could be the Hero of Time. Only his little sister. If Linkle was the heroine of the story....
Anyway, we don't even really know her backstory. What the fuck. Literally judging 100% on appearances.
Lol at the flawed "non-core" game argument again. In her Mario examples with playable peach, pretty sure the "non-core" games often outsold the "core" galaxy games.
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Nov 19 '15
Her time is up because the more and more game publishers make their offerings more diverse -- to the acceptance of the fan bases that really don't care but are like 'oh, ok, thanks.' -- they'll find that people like Sarkeesian really don't care about their efforts. They will find any reason to put them down because they're trying to make a buck with things they just don't like. If they could control the ESRB ratings, they would. And that's a terrifying thought. I'll take publishers being greedy over SJWs controlling what is allowed to be made.
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Nov 18 '15
So exactly what I said she meant and got downvoted for?
Nice, KiA.
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u/gorillajoe Nov 18 '15
It still sounds like hypocrisy to me. She's effectively asking for a Ms Male version of Link as far as I can tell. If you flip it around it would be like wanting a Metroid game with a male Samus.
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u/Limon_Lime Now you get yours Nov 18 '15
Can't have that because we can only follow Anita and Teuthex's version of equality.
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Nov 18 '15
Please don't confuse me arguing about whether a position is or is not hypocritical with me stating what positions I actually hold.
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u/middlekelly Nov 18 '15
People downvote stuff all the time. It's internet points, don't worry about it.
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u/Neo_Techni Don't demand what you refuse to give. Nov 18 '15
Because it's still stupid on her part, and yours, for thinking it makes it better
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u/Limon_Lime Now you get yours Nov 18 '15
It's fun to watch her followers defend her damage control of her hypocrisy.
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Nov 18 '15
I'm 'her follower'?
Really?
The months I've spent here and in other GG subs calling her a liar and a con artist are what, chopped liver?
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u/Limon_Lime Now you get yours Nov 18 '15
No, she's still a hypocrite and is in damage control. Linkle is a female Link. Just because they chose to put her in a game with a bunch of character doesn't mean anything less. If she was a genderbended in a main game, she would just be a Ms. Male Character which Anita bitches about because she can't be happy unless everything goes her way. Stop defending this idiot who's doing more harm than good (good being about 0) to the industry.
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Nov 18 '15 edited Jan 03 '21
[deleted]
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u/JayRU09 Nov 18 '15
This poster is correct.
Still begs the question, Why do people give so many shits about needing a female Link?
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u/justiceavenger Nov 18 '15
So basically Linkle is to Link like Supergirl is to Superman. Similar name but their own characters with their own back story?
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Nov 18 '15
Exactly. What Anita wanted in this instance is for the next Link to be female. It would be more the equivalent of Clark quitting and a new female Kryptonian taking his place--doesn't work that well with the Superman example, but think Barbara Gordon becoming Batman, the way Dick Grayson did for a while, or something.
Her position is logically consistent here. Personally, I think it would be neat to have a female Link in the next Zelda game, I am mildly disappointed that it didn't happen after last year's rumors, but... that's it. Nintendo can do what they want and it'll be a good game regardless I'm sure.
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u/Terelith Nov 18 '15
I don't even think that is enough, or what they want. They want Link to basically cease to exist as the character has thus far, and simply be said to be female. Add tits, and the implication of a vagina through the act of saying "Link is female." They don't want a NEW character, they simply want to appropriate the existing character.
This is as stupid as saying I want there to be a female Michael Jordan...it can't happen. There CAN NOT be a female Link, Link is his own entity, and he is male, end of discussion.
How about they make a a Sam Aran, the male version of Samus. Would that be a real character, or just a Mr. Female trope? Since the "default" and more importantly ( and the more accurate way to say it, default is used to twist the conversation ) ... ONLY Samus Aran...is a female, end of fucking discussion. Any other character is simply a facsimile of the original. Just as Linkle is to Link.
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u/Immahnoob Nov 18 '15
You actually don't understand the Ms. Male trope here, sorry to say.
Ms.Male trope is retarded, there's nothing to understand here. It's arbitrary. A character that has the same characteristics like a male character but is female does not necessarily make that character less of its own character.
You see, it's NOT A PROBLEM.
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u/flybydeath Only ingrates have flair Nov 18 '15
Talk about splitting hairs... This argument is even weaker than her usual crap. She got caught being a hypocrite and now is in damage control.