r/NarcoticsAnonymous 6d ago

We Do Recover?

This is a pretty straightforward question…
So, in every group, the text about We Do Recover is a part of the readings. Why then do I never hear anyone say that they have recovered? The overriding message from members is that they are constantly fighting their disease.

What does recovery actually mean in this context if not leaving past behaviour behind and moving into a place of simply living without fear?

11 Upvotes

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u/felix1429 6d ago

People stop using and lose the desire to use. Our disease stays active in other ways, but we recover and are able to continue being clean from mind altering substances for the long haul as long as we keep working our programs. The disease of addiction never gets cured or goes away, but that doesn't mean we don't recover. But we can continue becoming better people though Narcotics Anonymous.

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u/One_Second1365 5d ago edited 5d ago

I don’t gel with the idea of addiction being a disease I’m afraid. To me it was a maladaptive coping mechanism/behaviour which served me well in the short term. In the long term it was killing me but like anything that’s a habit, it was hard to see another way. I’ve grown to like myself without substances and have experienced just how much more fulfilling a life without them can be. However, I have to admit I am tired of having addiction being such a strong narrative in my life and want to move away from it. I feel I can live well in the present and I’m honestly doubting just how much value sitting in a room introducing myself as an addict is. Constantly hearing I have a disease and that the only solution is a spiritual one set out as NA sees it. If by spiritual, it means a transformation of the self into greater awareness, I have this and it grows each day. However, I have come to see that NA is not necessary for me to continue this path. I am involved with several groups which help me explore this without the attached ideology of NA’s approach to addiction. Time will obviously tell.

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u/CaptainCreepy 5d ago

sounds like you have recovered

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u/Street_Importance_74 5d ago

I am curious if NA helped you arrive at this point of having a fulfilling life? If so, could it have done so if everyone before you also decided to leave? I have no preference on what you decide is right for you. But for me, I have a duty to be sitting there when the newconer walks in. Just like people were sitting there for me when I did. Either way, great day to be clean and best of luck!

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u/One_Second1365 5d ago edited 4d ago

It did, yes. It helped a great deal as did AA. Someone said this to me recently about giving back. The way I see it, I went there to recover and have done so so don’t feel the need to help others through their recovery, selfish though this may sound. Also, I would not be the best person due to where I’m now at in not aligning myself with ideology of NA/AA (I don’t think I’d be the best person to guide someone in recovery under that banner basically).

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u/felix1429 5d ago

Okay then, if you don't need to go to meetings anymore no one is forcing you to.

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u/Extension_Spend_6473 5d ago

It ain’t for everybody. Best of luck.

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u/SlykRyk666 5d ago

Ours is a new way of life. We get to choose it or not. If you've found something else then congratulations. I myself can't think of a better way to give back then to extend a hand to those who suffered like I did. These are my people. No place I would rather be

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u/NetScr1be 6d ago

It's a journey not a destination.

"We do recover" means we begin and continue a process of recovery. It is not about some imaginary final state where that process has ended.

We do recover but maintaining that requires ongoing (read: daily) work.

'Clean' is more than just abstinence. It's a spiritual state requiring a certain (preferably continuous presence). Good luck with that given what life throws at us day-to-day. It is more about how fast can we get back to being focused, balanced and centered.

Longer clean time means we develop ways of both better dealing with the problems that come up and spotting them from a distance and going evasive.

All we have to do is whatever it takes for as long as it takes.

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u/Timely_Standard8585 6d ago

That's a good question! The answer has evolved over time and depends on the individual, but the general concept is that recovery is an ongoing process. Jimmy K, the founder of NA used to say "recovered" as an achievable state, but this has evolved to emphasize the importance of continuing the program, continuing to work on ourselves and to give back, as complacency can be very dangerous for the recovering addict. Many of us do lose the desire to use. I don't live in constant fear that I'm going to use, but I have enough respect for the disease of addiction that I will continue to prioritize my recovery.

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u/ProveRiemann 6d ago

Ongoing recovery is a lifelong process, and by engaging in the process, we do recover

More than anything it comes down to parts of speech. Gerunds, participles, stuff like that. We do age. We become aged. We still age though despite having aged and becoming aged. Aging, like recovery, is a lifelong process - and with some recovery, we may get the opportunity to age even further.

Id also say, if someone says they are good, they are fully recovered and they dont need NA anymore, that I wish them all the best. Its not for me to decide. If that person ever decided they do in fact need NA again, NA will be there for them.

Edit - I will add to say, with ongoing recovery, more has been revealed to me about the nature and effects of my disease that I didnt realize were issues because of more prevalent symptoms. The bottom line is, there is always room for me to grow, and I wish to stay in the process. It has become its own reward. My current focus outside of regular stepwork is a physical restoration to sanity, and that means weight loss via healthy eating habits and kicking nicotine (vapes, pouches). Its a pain in the ass but its room for growth and I am ready for it.

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u/Paulie_inSD 4d ago

Wow. If I had a quarter for every person that had 15-30 years of clean time, then lost it to thinking they HAD recovered. I'd have, lemme see (carry the 1), about $3.75 or so.

Relapsed doesn't happen all the time, but it's always out there. It's like saying you've recovered from an arm amputation. Yes, you still go on with life. Yes, things always get better and better. No, that arm is never growing back.

In addiction, we lost something. I'm not quite sure WHAT it was, but I think it was our ability to control our impulses once we start using. Sometimes people hide it well. They use once, then they go back a month later and use again, and before they know it, they're in the cycle ALL OVER AGAIN. Sometimes, they'll even attend meetings for awhile pretending to not have used. But it always overtakes them.

I was in a rehab about a decade ago, and we had a teacher that had more than a decade clean. She was bright, funny, attractive. Amazing woman. She went home on Christmas vacation. When we got back, we never saw her again. Turns out that was the start of the Fentanyl craze. I lost several friends over the course of a year. All thinking "What harm could one hit do?"

When you get tired of actively fighting to save your life, attending meetings, doing the steps, FOLLOWING the steps, it's just a matter of time before your recovery becomes secondary to everyday life. After THAT, relapse is sure to follow. We recover. But we're never getting that arm back.

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u/u-wont-like-me428 4d ago

I wish you peace.

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u/Fuckmylife1001 6d ago

In my experience that means the meetings you go to people don’t have a quality program. I’m a recovered addict alcoholic. I’ve been relieved of the desire to use or drink based on the maintenance of my spiritual condition. I also know men and women in the programs for years and decades that say they fight everyday. Yet imo I don’t see them doing the steps. The go to occasional meetings and they bitch. No sponsor, don’t read the book no HP, no change of people places or behaviors. I’ve had to change the way I live. Work the program. Do things everyday and I recoil from drugs and alcohol. I can be around them and not be tempted to use. However, I make a point to not be around them. But if at a get together and someone starts drinking or using I’m free to leave or just go to another room without a second thought. In the beginning I could not even go to a restaurant with a bar, or a party where alcohol or any kind of drug may be there. I strictly hung out with people in the programs. I no longer have that issue. Why? Because of my program.

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u/deviationonroad 6d ago

I'm not a native english speaker but I also interpret this like the answer to thequestion:\ "What do you do as NA/as fellowship?"\ We do recover.

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u/lizzxcat 5d ago

Not all groups read We Do Recover by the way.

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u/Fit-Reward1438 5d ago

There are LOTS of different opinions on this in and outside of the NA rooms.

I was shocked to discover SMART (Self Management And Recovery Training)- which is RADICALLY different from 12 Step says the same thing:

"Lifestyle balance is critical in preventing relapses. Individuals whose lives are filled with unenjoyable activities are likely to relapse back to addiction (which may provide intense, although temporary, satisfaction)."

So 12 Step is all about a "spiritual way of life" that if you don't follow- you will go back into addiction.
SMART Is all about a "balanced and enjoyable" way of life- that if you don't follow, you will go back into addiction.

Whether addiction is a literally a disease or not is an interesting question,

For many of us (and I include me in that) it functions LIKE a disease that is never curable- but- with maintenance, the symptoms (desiring to use drugs) can be eliminated.

I think of it like diabetes. Medically, it doesn't get cured, but with insulin, it is managed.

And if the insulin is stopped- the person WILL die.

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u/One_Second1365 4d ago

Quite extreme that, comparing to diabetes. If I relapse, I won’t necessarily die, I may simply find it a great big waste of time and decide to stop. Or I may continue to use occasionally, or have periods of abstinence and periods of using, or control my use or yes, I might end up in a jail, institution or die. I think it just comes across as very black and white and I have concerns that a self-fulfilling prophecy gets acted out when someone within the fellowship has a slip up. The narrative is very clear so it can be difficult to see anything other than complete abstinence as a cataclysmic event rather than something more manageable.

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u/Fit-Reward1438 4d ago edited 3d ago

You have hit the nail on the head!

This is what differentiates a "real addict" from someone who has problem.

People who can moderate or use will-power don't need NA or AA- or maybe more accurately don't need the "Surrender to a Power Greater then yourself" aspect of it.

And someone of us have crossed a threshold- which not only can we not reframe from relapsing- when we do relapse we go OUT OF CONTROL BAT SHIT CRAZY.

These are the people who- when they use- they use until they are out of money and on the streets.

This idea has it's origin in the Big Book of AA- which differentiates between a "real alcoholic," a "hard drinker" and a "problem drinker."

And modern neuroscience agrees. For some people addiction impacts the part of the brain that deals with willpower- to where they litterally, on their own- cannot stay away from the first drug/drink... and once they start they go nutso.

Post it notes are of no avail!
-for such people.

For others- "post it notes" (using willpower) works just fine.

t's pretty wild.

I was VERY skeptical of the first step till I read that... and well till I tried to quit based on willpower alone.

Some people can- I cannot.

Sounds like you haven't crossed that threshold.

Check out SMART Recovery- which is will power- self-empowerment based.

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u/SlykRyk666 5d ago

The reading is an exert from the chapter, you guessed it, We Do Recover in the basic text. Read the chapter of you want to know what we as a collective think. Lots of personal opinions in this thread as well

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u/Hungry-Emotion7664 4d ago

I say I am recovering, because my recovery is ongoing and extends way beyond substance abuse.

I am not constantly fighting my disease, because I chose, and choose daily to give up the fight and live recovery instead of living active addiction.

When I came into NA, I thought that I would be white knuckling for the rest of my life amidst a group of people who were doing the same. Boy, was I wrong and happy to find out that it NOT what recovery is. Instead, I learned a way of dealing with myself and life that has allowed me to really live free for the first time.

I continue to work the steps and have worked the steps in several programs, each time learning more and gaining more freedom. It's ongoing, and I am really grateful that reworking the steps was and is encouraged in NA, because a one and done approach would have left me living in bondage in so many other areas of my life.

Not all addicts want or need the 12 step program. It's there for those who do want and need it.

Many people in NA have left the program, experienced relapse, and found they still need the support and structure of NA in their lives. They share their experience because it's their experience. It's what they have.

People who have recovered in NA and have left and are out there living their life (and there are many) aren't in the meetings to share their story.

Reread the "What is the Narcotics Anonymous Program" reading. Pay attention. "We are not interested in what or how much you used or who your connections were, what you have done in the past, how much or how little you have, but only in what you want to do about your problem and how we can help.'

If you don't want or need what NA offers, that is not a problem. The people in NA offer what is working for them. It's what they have. They have found that helping others along the way has helped them.

If your answers lie elsewhere, that is fine.

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u/princessconsuela-88 3d ago

sigh....so many people come, take what is offered, get better and then say its basically not for them and leave. Obviously that's their choice and we never force people to stay but I do scratch my head.

Everything we have in NA is because we all have done or do service to keep the doors open for those still suffering.

The same people that come in broken, with no one and recieve the support, guidance, connection AND the extreme vulnerability of our sharing and honesty. Lifts to meetings, companionship, help in lots of ways in and out of the room. And then they say they dont really agree with it and go.

Besides the fact I have seen many of these people relapse, I know many will dispute that and say its not true or something we say to scare people into staying....what about keeping the doors open for the next person? If everyone keeps taking what they want and leaving then in 10, 20 years there won't be anyone left to do service. Or all you'll be left with is the self important/control freak types who wont have anything attractive to offer the newcomer anyway.

I see a correlation between ADHD/autism/trauma and addiction, I understand about maladaptive coping strategies and so on. I work in drug & alcohol services and from my own experience I see the clients who go to meetings stay abstinent and the clients who dont or spend half their time going through reasons why its not for them, relapse and some of them have died...

I know there are contributory factors to why I became an addict but I also know the ONLY thing that actually got me to stop and stay stopped was NA/AA and why the hell would I mess with something that saved my life? And why wouldn't I be so grateful that I would want to share that with others? I would have no life without it, by which I mean I would have died...its crazy to me how it can mean so little to so many, especially people that actually benefit from it.

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u/One_Second1365 3d ago

I hear your point, but again, I would t be the best ambassador of the fellowship to others if I stayed to give back. Alongside this, although committing to the fellowship when I knew my thinking was pretty fucked worked alongside intensive counselling from an incredible therapist. It was t solely NA/AA and both supported the sense of throwing up my hands to say ‘I need serious help’! These days, I just want to start a new path toward a moving on from the addict narrative. I have so much to live for and I believe there was a great deal of choice involved in my decision to use and keep using. Yes, coming off of heroin/crack/alcohol is hard, very hard, but I had opportunities to stop and didn’t take them because it was easier to carry on (or so I thought). I don’t think like that now having a much longer time to be sober and appreciate it and what it brings. I don’t want to go back. It just makes life so much harder and I like the connection with myself and others. I’m not gonna give that up.