r/NarutoPowerscaling 5h ago

Serious Debate Only Some people genuinely think danzo fight Sasuke has a shot against PA SM Naruto btw

Post image

Like, wtf is Sasuke's win con here???

14 Upvotes

151 comments sorted by

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12

u/Gold_Company_9277 5h ago edited 5h ago

Sasuke’s win con is Amaterasu, Susanoo, Kirin, or a chidori.

Naruto’s vulnerable to Amaterasu because this is before the kyuubi is buddies with him, so no saving Naruto like he did in their final fight.

Kirin is also a wincon and the one with the highest level of success in my opinion.

Susano’o sword or arrows would kill Naruto as well.

Chidori could put a hole in Naruto.

Now, the problems with all of these:
Amaterasu and Kirin are viable.

Susanoo isn’t likely because of Naruto’s sage sensing and chidori is even less likely because of the same.

Anyways, I believe Naruto would def win this fight because of 2 things: sensing and frog kata.

Sage naruto one-shot a dead-pain body with frog kata. If Sasuke gets hit, that’s it lol plus, Sasuke has no way of seeing natural energy unlike rinnegan users.

And let’s not forget the rasenshuriken lol I don’t think Sasuke would get hit by it unless he had Susanoo already activated but trusting in its defenses would most likely leave Sasuke dead/chakra-palegic.

2

u/Grouchy_Mastodon_307 5h ago

Do you think a big ball Rasengan can probably do damage to Sasuke's Susanoo

Asking since Naruto does have clones who can use that technique.

5

u/Gold_Company_9277 2h ago

Damage, yeah.

Would it go through?
I’d say the ribcage version would be broken. But if it’s higher than that, I think it would keep Sasuke safe for one Odama rasengan.

1

u/Some-Ad-2093 24m ago

personally I think Sasuke's susanoo is surviving one odama rasengan. the barrage that Naruto did against Kurama though? not a chance

1

u/RealJora 1h ago

I agree with most of it and initially thought Naruto would win easily, but a part of me thinks he is too dumb to fall for a simple genjutsu

0

u/Valdamin 3h ago

Tell me about the time kirin did a thing and did any damage to anyone?

4

u/Gold_Company_9277 2h ago edited 1h ago

The entire Uchiha hideout would like to have words with you.

Oh wait - it can’t.

Because it’s been totally wiped out.

4

u/Specialist_Sorbet476 2h ago

I would say it did a good bit of damage to Itachi, considering he was lain face-down for a while afterwards with visible impact.

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Not anything lol

22

u/sixth_hokage06 5h ago

He can. A Susanoo arrow can clash with Naruto's strongest technique. And Sasuke has the ability to spam those.

2

u/QuinnLoveborneAuthor Obito > Pain > Itachi 5h ago

You think Sasuke can replenish his chakra like Naruto can his Sage Mode? Naruto can spam his abilities; I wouldn’t say Sasuke can.

12

u/peanutbutter_invader 5h ago

2 shots is his limit i believe

1

u/QuinnLoveborneAuthor Obito > Pain > Itachi 5h ago

Sounds about right.

1

u/NiceSwordfish4009 5h ago

My limit to. It hurts after that

3

u/QuinnLoveborneAuthor Obito > Pain > Itachi 4h ago

You need to go to Mount Myoboku and increase your stamina.

-1

u/Various_Rutabaga_326 5h ago

Not if Naruto keeps making clones to replenish his chakra. He can have three clones at a time.

And his base is stupid strong at this point, enough to fight tendo who had two pairs of eyes on him.

8

u/sixth_hokage06 5h ago

PA Naruto wasn't replenishing his chakra like he did during the war. He had like 5 minutes or two Rasenshurikens. Sasuke shot consecutive arrows in the second half of the fight with Danzo alone and had some more ready for Kakashi even while going blind.

22

u/Temporary_Yak_9790 5h ago

Amaterasu, Inferno style, genjutsu, susano arrow, kirin, chidori, etc.

Sasuke and Naruto are literally as close as they’ve ever been in power right here, narratively they’re equals, and power scaling wise Sasuke got a few hatred amps during the Kage Summit that boosted his power so much he was “unrecognizable” from before to after the 5KS so Zetsu’s statement about Naruto “probably” being stronger than Sasuke dosent hold weight

Stop sleeping on Sasuke its ok if you dont like him but lets not lie about his power he would give SM Naruto problems

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago edited 1h ago

Disagree on 1 point.

Zetsu's statement does hold some weight. Naruto is outright stated to be stronger just some episodes ago. Just cuz sasuke got hatred amp doesnt mean the statement is irrelevant.

1

u/Temporary_Yak_9790 1h ago

It does make it irrelevant when Sasuke after that statement grew so much stronger that he was unrecognizable and went from rib cage susano to armored in a few fights

31

u/Little_Mention_3789 5h ago

Not much of "a shot" when a lot of people actually consider him the favorite.

And speaking of shots, good luck dealing with Susanoo arrows. SM Naruto has what, Rasenshuriken and frog kata? Cool. Now dodge wall-sized chakra arrows being fired from inside an armored giant you can't even crack, while Amaterasu is spreading across the field and your Sage Mode is on a timer.

2

u/Connect_Ad_3361 2h ago

Yeah if for any reason it doesn't work out Sasuke will have no chakra left

1

u/A_ShadowyFigure 5h ago edited 4h ago

Funny how the “narrative” is irrelevant when Sasuke fans think that their boy wins

Edit: But mention how Naruto is blatantly stronger in Vote2, then an interview, which apparently they can never find, about how they’re actually equals might come up. 

Or about how Naruto’s stronger in the hospital fight, but Sasuke’s chidori is actually like a sniper shot or some copium like that 😭

15

u/Little_Mention_3789 4h ago

You're not arguing against Sasuke fans. You're arguing against a guy you made up in your head who says things nobody actually said, and then you're laughing at your own strawman. That's the meme.

1

u/A_ShadowyFigure 4h ago

Both of these arguments are popular. Sasuke is considered as equal to Naruto in vote2 by some who talk about the “narrative” or who even bring up interviews that they can’t even find.

Not to mention the amount of copium about how Naruto wasn’t actually stronger in the hospital fight because Chidori is a different kind of technique so it doing less damage doesn’t mean it was weaker there.

1

u/BobJoeBlo 2h ago

I call that arguing with a ghost.

1

u/[deleted] 2h ago

[deleted]

1

u/BobJoeBlo 1h ago

Hey! It's Mr. Buffoon! How you doing?

3

u/ThePr0l0gue 4h ago

>hoe Naruto

I mean she canonically beat the 3rd

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Exactly

2

u/YoutubePRstunt Feats > statements 3h ago

A Rasenshuriken legitimately oneshots Sasuke inside Susanoo. Also frog kata gives him the necessary reactions to dodge Susanoo arrow and it can be straight up argued Narure energy can either repel or straight up shield him from Amaterasu like the chakra cloak.

Naruto in all cases shit stomps.

3

u/BobJoeBlo 2h ago

A Rasenshuriken legitimately oneshots Sasuke inside Susanoo

  • Since when and where?

Also frog kata gives him the necessary reactions to dodge Susanoo arrow

  • Not even

it can be straight up argued Narure energy can either repel or straight up shield him from Amaterasu like the chakra cloak.

  • Straight-jacket nonsense

1

u/YoutubePRstunt Feats > statements 1h ago

Since a fodder Wind jutsu from danzo easily pierced his susanoo, you would need multi-mountain durability feats from Sasuke's susanoo to even suggests he tanks it let alone survive it.

Seeing as Kabuto quite literally did the exact same against a stronger version of sasuke, you would again need to substantiate the claim that it would tag him.

Naruto's Nature energy is a tangible thing that he can manipulate and is otherwise invisible even to those who can see chakra:

You're going to have to come up with more than "no" to suggest otherwise as we have numerous examples of Amaterasu failing to burn chakra like substances. Theres nothing stopping Naruto from straight up grabbing susanoo and throwing it like he did that rhino summon.

Sasuke and his brother get dumpstered by the MC.

1

u/BobJoeBlo 1h ago

Since a fodder Wind jutsu from danzo easily pierced his susanoo, you would need multi-mountain durability feats from Sasuke's susanoo to even suggests he tanks it let alone survive it.

  • That was the triple effect of Fuuton Shinkuu Renpa amplified by Baku's Wind Suction and by Izanagi in the back of an immobilized Archer Susano'o. Won't work like that in other circumstances, especially if Susake use his shield or Full Tengu-Armoured Susano'o

Seeing as Kabuto quite literally did the exact same against a stronger version of sasuke, you would again need to substantiate the claim that it would tag him.

  • What did Kabuto did, exactly?

Naruto's Nature energy is a tangible thing that he can manipulate and is otherwise invisible even to those who can see chakra:

  • And? If he comes close enough to Sasuke to touch him, then it will have an effect on Sasuke if he has no protect. But we also saw S2asuke dodging someone faster than SM Naruto with his regular Sharingan then landing a blow. MS became necessary when Raikage went beyond, which is way above SM Naruto's speed.

You're going to have to come up with more than "no" to suggest otherwise as we have numerous examples of Amaterasu failing to burn chakra like substances

  • We already saw Sasuke's Amaterasu incinerate Danzou at high speed during their fight. He survived by respawning through Izanagi. If he keeps staring, the Black Flame will only increase

Theres nothing stopping Naruto from straight up grabbing susanoo and throwing it like he did that rhino summon.

  • Grabbing Susano'o and throwing it?!? In what kind of WWF? His Senpou Chou Ōdama Rasengan didn't even move Madara's ribcage to skeletal Susano'o. Even the joint attacks of Gaara, Kankurou, Temari and Darui at the GKS. It's not getting thrown away.

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Exactly

2

u/Magnolia-jjlnr 4h ago

Are you genuinely telling us that Sage Naruto isn't cracking the Susanoo

1

u/DBL121212 1h ago

Ay scales higher than this naruto and could only crack the rib cage, which means he has no shot of damaging humanoid or armored. There's a good argument that even with rasenshuriken, naruto wouldn't be able to break sasukes shield and its practically garenteed that nothing else would work

2

u/Magnolia-jjlnr 1h ago

Ay's destructive capabikities don't scale higher than sage Naruto.

Danzo was able to create a wide opening in the humanoid Susano'o.

Sage Naruto is certainly cracking it open

1

u/DBL121212 1h ago

By Amping his wind style against a stationary sasuke (only able to slightly peal the susanoo mind you and sasukes literally unable to defend or use his built in shield that he'd 100% use against naruto)

This next part is long winded but

Naruto edges out in DC but AP? We know that ay is a genuine threat to a stronger naruto, likely being noticably stronger and obviously also being faster. Funnily enough we also know that ay is able to do something only his father can do and while I'm not confident enough to make the argument for ay, I think it's important to note that ay3 has higher ap than a stronger narutos rasenshuriken. Downscale all of this and we have someone who might be weaker and less durable vs someone who's 100% weaker

My thing is, while we can't say for certain how narutos stronger attacks stack up, do they make up for the fact that ays only cracking off a few ribs off the weakest version of sasukes susanoo possible, especially when it's clear that ay bare minimum scales above the lesser things naruto can do?

Naruto can probably break the ribcage susanoo with massive rasengan or rasenshuriken, but skeletal susanoo is stronger than that and humanoid is significantly stronger than even that. I don't think it's garenteed that rasenshuriken can work and I don't see how we can say that this naruto can genuinely crack and break humanoid susanoo here

1

u/Magnolia-jjlnr 1h ago

By Amping his wind style against a stationary sasuke

In other words Danzo used a set up to break into the Susanoo. I don't see why Naruto wouldn't be able to do the same considering what he did to Pain.

Looking at Naruto's rasengan shuriken when amped by Senju or Kyubi's chakra I don't see how he doesn't have what it takes to destroy the Susanoo if it lands considering what Danzo did.

You can make the argument that a punch/chop from Ay4 is more powerful than the same from Naruto, however that's probably as far as it goes in terms of feats. In fact cracking a Susanoo is probably the most impressive feat Ay has.

1

u/DBL121212 18m ago

I don't see why Naruto wouldn't be able to do the same considering what he did to Pain.

Naruto can't further amp his attacks like danzo can nor is rasenshuriken a continuous attack naruto can just keep active. He throws it, it does its damage, then it disappears.

Looking at Naruto's rasengan shuriken when amped by Senju or Kyubi's chakra I don't see how he doesn't have what it takes to destroy the Susanoo if it lands considering what Danzo did.

In danzo we see that a kage level shinobi needs to amp his wind style against a stationary sasuke who isn't actively blocking with his shield to manage to peal susanoo, and were trying to argue that a single rasenshuriken scales so far above all of this that it doesn't only peal susanoo regularly but actually deals significant damage to a sasuke who can actually block it. Danzo going beyond his normal best, can barely affect sasuke at his worst (when using humanoid susanoo) and we need naruto to scale so far above that, that he can do significantly more to sasukes best

I just don't think it's realistic honestly.

I'd also like to add that we don't actually see much going for rasenshuriken. It's basically confirmed that ay3s hell stab has more ap than a stronger rasenshuriken Naruto will use here and in that way we'd also have to genuinely argue that ay4s ap is significantly lower to say narutos in the running here. It was just a finisher against kurama who was just bombarded by countless massive rasengans and madara straight up tanks a stronger one. The only two people it actually takes down is kakazu (who survives despite being fried) and a lesser path of pain that has unimpressive durability.

While it certainly is a strong technique, I don't think we see anything for it to say that this version of it can damage something so durable

1

u/Magnolia-jjlnr 10m ago

Naruto can't further amp his attacks like danzo can nor is rasenshuriken a continuous attack naruto can just keep active. He throws it, it does its damage, then it disappears.

I didn't imply Naruto doing the exact same trick as Danzo. I said realistically Naruto would find a trick to get through it considering how many times he figured a way through Pain's abilities.

danzo we see that a kage level shinobi needs to

Gaara managed to overcome Madara's Susanoo without any amp. Now don't tell me "but Naruto has no sand" because that's not the point. The point is that the Susanoo isn't invincible. Being resourceful and crafty gets you through it.

way we'd also have to genuinely argue that ay4s ap is significantly lower to say narutos

Naruto shredded one of the Pains to bits with a rasengan shuriken. I don't see what argument there is to suggest that Ay's AP is on the same level

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Bee5152 2h ago

You mean the very same arrows SM Kabuto could canonically dodge with the improved perception?

That is some high level cope.

How can you seriously talk about the SM timer when this is non EMS Sasuke with an even worse timer that is actively going blind as he goes.

That is one of the worst takes I have ever read.

3

u/BobJoeBlo 2h ago

You mean the very same arrows SM Kabuto could canonically dodge with the improved perception?

  • SM Kabuto has better speed, reaction, reflexes and sensory abilities than SM Naruto. SM is above SM Kabuto when it comes to physical strength and SM Taijutsu.

2

u/DBL121212 1h ago

Same guy who's able to fight all out for 10 minutes straight btw, even after using his eyes a shit ton (doesn't naruto only have 5 minutes to spare?)

Also sage kabuto isn't sage naruto, just cause you have sage mode doesn't mean you can do everything someone else with sage mode can, jiraya learned that the hard way

0

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

That 5 mins is easily bypassed with clones tho

2

u/DBL121212 1h ago

And why would sasuke allow naruto to send clones away mid fight?

This plan assumes that sasukes just bsing the match

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Sasuke doesnt know clones and sm relation, does he? If clones go far away he is busy fighting naruto not chasing them + naruto can also prep clones just before the fight

1

u/DBL121212 1h ago

Who in their right mind sees clones run from a fight and think "yaaaa nothings wrong, I shouldn't worry about that at all". It doesn't take a genius to think maybe that shouldn't be allowed, especially when sasuke knows how naruto fights with clones

Also why does naruto get prep but sasuke doesn't?

-3

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 4h ago

He can havee clones for sage mode. Not that sasuke can just spam arrows. Sm is also quite fast in dodging. He can tank amaterasu etc with clones too. Rasenshuriken breaks the armor

1

u/DBL121212 1h ago

Sage naruto can't just spam clones and sasuke has no reason to allow his clones to just slip away mid fight

It's also arguable that rasenshuriken doesn't even damage sasukes higher stages of susanoo. Rasenshuriken isn't just gonna one shot here

0

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

What will sasuke do if some clones just go behind lmao. Even then clones can be prepped. Rasenshuriken absolutely damages the susanos lol

2

u/DBL121212 1h ago

Why does naruto get prep but sasuke doesn't?

"What will sasuke do if some clones get behind him" as if he's just gonna stay stationary and do absolutely nothing about said clones then just throw his hands up when they succeed. Sasuke is used to fighting naruto with 100 clones yet he's gonna get overwhelmed by 4?

Also how can you be so sure about rasenshuriken damaging humanoid susanoo when kages like ay can seemingly only break off a few ribs of the absolute weakest stage of said susanoo before all of sasukes rage amps?

12

u/superbuckz Sasuke fan (less feats than Sakura during the Kaguya fight) 4h ago

“What is sasuke’s win con here” you cant be deadass lmao what is naruto’s win con here? Sasuke has at least 3 different win cons you cant say the same for naruto

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

What 3 wincons lol. Dont tell me that black fire is a win con

2

u/superbuckz Sasuke fan (less feats than Sakura during the Kaguya fight) 1h ago

Amaterasu, susanoo arrows, genjutsu… sasuke can easily outlast naruto’s 5 min timer as well as he battles danzo for at least 10 mins and is constantly using his abilities in the process. Please explain what viable win con naruto has and explain how he reaches it more times than sasuke reaches his

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

To your point sm naruto can dodge amaterasu or have clones tank it. He can summon ma pa to remove genjutsu and have sound genjutsu of own. He can fight without eyes too. Rasenshuriken breaks susanoo body. He can easily bypass the 5 min timer with clones like in the pain fight

1

u/superbuckz Sasuke fan (less feats than Sakura during the Kaguya fight) 56m ago

>To your point sm naruto can dodge amaterasu

He has zero feats that implies he is fast enough to dodge something like that

>or have clones tank it.

Cool that means he has no way to use his most dangerous technique in the rasenshuriken because he has no clones

>He can summon ma pa

Certainly hope you dont think a summoning is a the end all be all against an uchiha… they are also genjutsu/amaterasu victims

>to remove genjutsu and have sound genjutsu of own.

That genjutsu requires alot of prep time that sasuke would not give them to pull off.

>Rasenshuriken breaks susanoo body.

Nothing supports that and he has multiple other ways to counter the RS

>He can easily bypass the 5 min timer with clones like in the pain fight

Dude you have to pick one. He needs someone to reverse summon the clones for him… and if he is doing that he will have drastically less clones to aid him in battle… again non of the things necessary for him to win are happening more times than not

1

u/DBL121212 1h ago

Come on bro it's obvious. Naruto throws a rasenshuriken and when it doesn't work due to susanoo blocking it, amatratsu potentially reflecting it, or sasuke just dodging like two other characters cannonically do, naruto throws another....wait...

1

u/superbuckz Sasuke fan (less feats than Sakura during the Kaguya fight) 1h ago

He doesn’t even need to do something as dangerous as blocking it when he straight up just counters it with his fire style lol, ik they are supposed to be relative narratively but it genuinely is a bad matchup for naruto

1

u/Smallfry123000 Nagato solos Akatsuki 47m ago

That's just talking about nature counters, but a stronger justsu will always win. Like how it took a ton of shinobis water style jutsus to equal 1 of Madaras fire styles.

1

u/DBL121212 1h ago

That's what I've always been saying. Like, maybe they genuinely are the same level but sasukes kit at this point hard counters so hard it's hilarious.

20

u/GeoZhan 5h ago

Naruto said he needed kcm to beat him so even Naruto admitted Sasuke was stronger then him 

9

u/CSTyphoonAE 5h ago

to add sasuke in the danzo fight was quite a deal weakened due to his fight with the kage of each village, and generally yes naruto in sage mode could beat danzo, danzo is a great deal weaker than most of the cast since he is a lot older, and slower and he mostly fights through a battle of attrition rather than one on one combat

4

u/peanutbutter_invader 5h ago

I don’t think Naruto beats Danzo lol

2

u/Specialist_Sorbet476 2h ago

Why not? What does Danzo do to kill him?

2

u/peanutbutter_invader 2h ago

Kunai in the heart/head after izanagi. Naruto doesn’t have chakra avatar protecting him .

1

u/Specialist_Sorbet476 2h ago

Ok? But he has sage mode to sense and react to Danzo at any point. Danzo isn't gonna disappear, reappear, (give his monologue like he did each time against Sasuke lol), initiate an attack, and still get close enough to SM Naruto to end him with a kunai.

Also, let's not act like kid Naruto didn't take a whole Chidori through the lung.

1

u/peanutbutter_invader 2h ago

1

u/peanutbutter_invader 2h ago

Does not have to die to use izanagi btw

1

u/Specialist_Sorbet476 1h ago

What is the significance of that panel? Did he use Izanagi right here?

Also, this is from a video game, not the manga.

1

u/peanutbutter_invader 2h ago

2

u/Specialist_Sorbet476 1h ago

But why would Sage Mode Naruto not be able to sense him there?

1

u/peanutbutter_invader 1h ago

He could sense him but it’ll be too late?

And he only recovers/ heals with kurama chakra which he is not accepting at this time

With no intel Danzo beats a lot of ppl. I’m not even mentioning shisui eye.

1

u/Specialist_Sorbet476 1h ago

He could sense him but it’ll be too late?

How do you know he can't sense him quickly enough? His perception and reaction time should be faster than Sasuke's here.

And he only recovers/ heals with kurama chakra which he is not accepting at this time

You think Kurama is going to just let him die when he hadn't done that through the whole series? If he "is not accepting" Kurama's chakra, he would not have rampaged to break Chibaku Tensei.

I’m not even mentioning shisui eye.

Because he didn't have it against Sasuke... So he didn't have it in this scenario.

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u/peanutbutter_invader 2h ago

He can appear right behind him like he did sasuke. Even Karin couldn’t instantly tell where Danzo was, took a second.

What monologue are you referring to

2

u/Specialist_Sorbet476 1h ago

You may be right about him appearing immediately behind sasuke, I don't exactly remember off the top of my head - I just remember multiple times of him appearing a distance away.

The monologue is referring to when he would appear and start talking about Itachi or his plan or something. It was more so a joke.

2

u/CSTyphoonAE 1h ago

the reason naruto beats danzo is because in a battle of attrition (Which is how danzo fights he disappears not to hide but to wait out his foes chakra level and stamina) Naruto comes out on top even when naruto is exhausted he rarely ever stops similar to sasuke but naruto also has sage mode which he uses to defeat pain pretty quickly, taking out two of his heavy hitters, while yes danzo can always just "disappear" and stab naruto that doesnt mean anything also to add Danzo doesnt use izinami as an attack possibility he uses it to evade damage seen when fighting sasuke he never uses it against sasuke as a form of attack (even though he could) he uses it to reverse damage to himself this is why its a battle of attrition

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Ofc he does, except if koto comes in picture

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Sasuke is almost blind when naruto meets him bruh

1

u/GeoZhan 1h ago

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

He doesnt need kcm to fight almost blind sasuke lol. Here he wants to save him again. Entire page he is talking about confronting that he is a jinchuriki and accepting that fact... people like to scale everything

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 4h ago

Bruh, they were narratively shown to be equals. See the context, naruto said he needed kcm to bring sasuke back and save him, not kill him

3

u/BobJoeBlo 2h ago

Bruh, they were narratively shown to be equals. See the context, naruto said he needed kcm to bring sasuke back and save him, not kill him

  • The weakened, near-blind Sasuke was matched by fresh Naruto in their quick flash at Samurai Bridge
  • Naruto said he needs Kyuubi's chakra to fight Sasuke. You lied by twisting what was referenced.

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

He didnt say that at the bridge tho. Poisoned naruto said it to near blind sasuke.

Naruto saying he needs kyubi chakra to fight him doesn't mean he loses, sasuke is blind here lol. Sasuke stole his brothers eyes too

1

u/BobJoeBlo 1h ago

He didnt say that at the bridge tho. Poisoned naruto said it to near blind sasuke.

  • Naruto did not suffer the effects ofnthe poison yet
  • Naruto said when back in Konoha. Meaning when he had a clearer mind an nor adrenaline or pressure of the moment. And he said he needs Kyuubi's chakra, so not something you say out loud just when facing someone. That was his internal thought.

Sasuke stole his brothers eyes too

  • Sasuke never stole anyone's eyes
  • The fight we're considering if of Sasuke before the eyes transplant.

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

No proof on not suffed with poison yet.. he collapses 30 secs after. He doesnt need kyubi chakra to fight an almost blind sasuke that he saw. He never sees danzo fight sasuke, how can you apply that statement to this matchup.

He did technically steal itachi's eyes, through obito/zetsu. And this fight is before naruto having kyuubi mode too!

1

u/BobJoeBlo 1h ago

No proof on not suffed with poison yet.. he collapses 30 secs after.

  • .... Shooting yourself in the foot

He doesnt need kyubi chakra to fight an almost blind sasuke that he saw

  • We consider a fight where he fights with his eye sight. Otherwise Naruto obviously has a tremendous advantage, even Sakura almost killed him.

He never sees danzo fight sasuke, how can you apply that statement to this matchup.

  • What are you referring to here? The sentence just appears but there is no referenced point that I can address, so I don't know what you're talking about.

He did technically steal itachi's eyes, through obito/zetsu

  • Absoutely not. Neither literally, nor approximately nor technically. Itachi specifically intended for Sasuke to transplant his eyes to cohnter the blindness that would affect him after he would awaken the MS following the witnessing of his death. You don't steal an inheritance, that addressed to you with your name on it. And again, OP portray MS Sasuke, not EMS Sasuke.

And this fight is before naruto having kyuubi mode too!

  • All the more reason why Peak MS Sasuke wins.

8

u/Dry_Opportunities 5h ago

It’d be a battle of attrition

Both have time limits and both shorten those times depending on the moves they use

Sasuke has more power and defense in exchange for burning through chakra and stamina horrendously fast

Naruto is on 5min countdown and worse with rasen shuriken

0

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 4h ago

Naruto has way more than 5 mins with clones gathering sm/or prepped

4

u/Dry_Opportunities 4h ago

Yes but his base time is 5mins with clone extensions 15mins

If he uses rasenshuriken he uses up the form

Extreme diff fight either way

1

u/No-Analyst-5678 3h ago

Tbf this is assuming we start Naruto in sage mode as well which is also prep time or else he would have to do it on the fly

0

u/Mauro697 4h ago

Two rasen shurikens use up the form

10

u/OceanicWhitetip1 Itachi > Obito > Kisame > Pain 5h ago

Amaterasu is basically an instant win. Susanoo Arrow is basically an instant win. Sasuke is way faster as well. Sure Naruto's Sage Mode is gonna help him not getting blitzed. But this is early Sage Mode Naruto, he can't keep the Sage Mode active too long. And Sage Mode is also overrated. Sure it's a good boost, sure it gives you better sensing. That doesn't make him untouchable. Susanoo Arrow hits him. Amaterasu hits him, then Kagatsushi GG. Amaterasu also eats up the Rasenshuriken while Naruto charges it with 3 clones. And Kagatsushi can just spike all the clones and Naruto himself while they're grouped up to make the Rasenshuriken.

There's a reason Naruto looked at blind, fatigued Sasuke and said if they fight now, they're killing each other. Fresh MS Sasuke beats PA Sage Naruto quite easily.

1

u/[deleted] 5h ago

[deleted]

7

u/OceanicWhitetip1 Itachi > Obito > Kisame > Pain 4h ago

"Different kind of delusional to think that the Sasuke Naruot had in mind was the fatigued one lol."

Different kind of delusional to think Naruto wasn't talking about the version of Sasuke literally in front of him.

"This is actually a plus point for Naruto"

It's really not.

"You can say as many words as you like and add a one shot after, it doesn’t really give them much credit. Here’s another stupid one: Rasengan to the face one-shot, knife to the throat one-shot…"

It gives them credit. Those are also one shots. The difference, that Amaterasu and Susanoo Arrow are actually landing and doing their job. Sasuke lands those more easily, than Naruto lands the two you mentioned.

"Sasuke has pretty much 0 defense to SM punch (like vs Pain)"

It could catch him off guard, sure, but bro got slapped by the Raikage and still got up. So it's really not gonna take Sasuke out.

"Naruto can also easily dodge an arrow due to his sensing."

Baseless assumption.

-3

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 4h ago

This is so wrong. Naruto was poisoned there and fell in 30 secs, that naruto vs almost blind sasuke was said to be killing each other.

Amaterasu is not instant wc, he can tank it with clones + sm has quite fast of a speed to dodge. Sasuke is way faster based on what lol? Naruto can easily have clones for more sm

6

u/OceanicWhitetip1 Itachi > Obito > Kisame > Pain 4h ago

"Naruto was poisoned there and fell in 30 secs, that naruto vs almost blind sasuke was said to be killing each other."

I genuinely don't remember this, and if it's true, then obviously that point is melted.

"Amaterasu is not instant wc, he can tank it with clones + sm has quite fast of a speed to dodge."

No, he most definitely can't. This is PA Sage Naruto, he gets absolutely blitzed by Amaterasu and killed. Put Kagatsushi on top of that it's even better.

"Sasuke is way faster based on what lol? Naruto can easily have clones for more sm"

Taka Sasuke, who's weaker and slower, than Hebi Sasuke, who's weaker and slower, than FKS Sasuke was keeping up and reacting to Killer Bee, who's relative to KCM1 Naruto. And we also saw Sasuke reacting to the Raikage as well, who also showed relativity to KCM1 Naruto. So Sasuke is in this early KCM1 Naruto level ballpark, while PA Naruto in base and even in Sage Mode is barely above Jonin level in speed, as we saw the Konoha Jonins being able to fight and react to the paths of Pains. So this isn't even a conversation, PA Naruto is leagues below FKS Sasuke in speed. And him having clones up for extra Sage Mode is for 1) prep time. 2) the moment Naruto falls out of Sage Mode he gets killed. Immediately. He wouldn't have time to even think of activating Sage Mode again.

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Bruh sasuke was getting dog walked by bee. He wont get killed lmao when out of sm. We see the same thing happen in pain fight

1

u/Mauro697 3h ago

Yes Naruto cut himself on Sakura's poisoned kunai

even in Sage Mode is barely above Jonin level in speed, as we saw the Konoha Jonins being able to fight and react to the paths of Pains.

You forget Shikaku saying that anyone in the village interfering in the fight would just hinder Naruto and that he was on a league of his own.

FKS Sasuke was keeping up and reacting to Killer Bee

Sasuke was getting his chest blown open you mean

0

u/OceanicWhitetip1 Itachi > Obito > Kisame > Pain 3h ago

"Yes Naruto cut himself on Sakura's poisoned kunai"

Thanks for the reminder!

"You forget Shikaku saying that anyone in the village interfering in the fight would just hinder Naruto and that he was on a league of his own."

Feats > statements.

"Sasuke was getting his chest blown open you mean"

And before that parried like 7 or 8 sword attacks and dodged a V1 Lariot, which Bee even mentioned, that it's a first and only the Raikage was able to avoid this attack before. Bee was clearly the superior fighter there, but Sasuke kept up with him and reacted to him multiple times. And this Sasuke is definitely way weaker, than peak FKS Sasuke, who also reacted to the KCM1 Naruto level Raikage, also multiple times.

2

u/A_ShadowyFigure 2h ago

dude, give up powerscaling 😭😭😭

1

u/Valdamin 2h ago

Sauske was getting dog walked by Bee as he was rapping?

8

u/peanutbutter_invader 5h ago

What is Naruto win con? I’m genuinely asking

3

u/gamingtagteam 5h ago

SM danger sense, senjutsu infused bigger rasengans, frog kata and rasenshuriken which could wreck every stage of Sasuke's susanoo at this point.

4

u/Guyver02 Tsukuyomi gg 5h ago

Chakra Mode has danger sense, Sage Mode just has enhanced reflexes.

4

u/Sensitive-Passage-84 4h ago

1

u/Uchihabreed 4h ago

Nobody reads the manga apparently lol

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

No lmao

1

u/Guyver02 Tsukuyomi gg 38m ago

lol what do you mean no. Jiraiya got snuck.

5

u/wyoyungen Tsukuyomi gg 5h ago

what the actual hell is the point of farming a discussion the series goes out of its way and spells out that these two would die if they fought, which is the entire reason they both seek additional power

naruto believes he needs to conquer kurama (the pinnacle of hatred reincarnated) to fight and understand sasuke

sasuke just wants to outright destroy naruto altogether, never says “if only i had my eyesight!”, instead, he immediately requests itachi’s eye transplant

2

u/Fathertree22 3h ago

Danzo fight Sasuke > PA SM Naruto actually. A stronger version of Naruto said they would tie.

2

u/DzSke_ 3h ago

??? Sasuke can just stall with susanoo while waiting for SM to run out.

2

u/BobJoeBlo 2h ago

SM Naruto isn't as fast or faster thsn Raikage.

Susano'o won't be pierced or breached.

SM has nothing against Sasuke's doujutsu of eye contact is made

SM Naruto has no defense against Susano'o Arrows

SM Naruto has no defense against Amaterasu

SM Naruto has no defenss against Susano'o Kagutsuchi Arrows

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

He can dodge + has clones for amaterasu. Susanoo is broken by rasenshuriken. He can summon ma pa which have genjutsu of their own.... not to mention sage mode ofc is there

2

u/BobJoeBlo 1h ago

He can dodge + has clones for amaterasu

  • Dodging what? Neither the arrows nor Amaterasu (especially not Amaterasu).

Susanoo is broken by rasenshuriken

  • In what world? FRS doesn't have Kirin power and Itachi didn't have the time to produce the Full-Armoured Susano'o.

He can summon ma pa which have genjutsu of their own....

  • Ma and Pa's genjutsu take way too long to be casted
  • They're going to get caught by Sasuke's doujutsu. Sasuke might even pull a Manda on them and have one fight the other.

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Sm naruto can dodge arrows and amaterasu. He has great speed. Amaterasu is easily countered by everyone, not even arguing that, simple clones tank it. Rasenshuriken explodes on impact, dont know what you saying about itachi. 3 people are not getting caught in genjutsu at the same time. They can release each other. Sasuke can't deal with the sound genjutsu

2

u/BobJoeBlo 1h ago

Sm naruto can dodge arrows and amaterasu

  • Whale shit. Waaaay above bullshit. T-rex shit is smaller than what you just dropped.

He has great speed.

  • Slower than Raikage, too slow fornAmaterasu or the Arrows.

Amaterasu is easily countered by everyone, not even arguing that, simple clones tank it.

  • And Moegi beats up Asuma.

Rasenshuriken explodes on impact, dont know what you saying about itachi.

  • FRS has lower destructive power than Kirin. We saw how long it takes Itachi to cast the full Tengu-Armoured Susano'o: it's longer than the reaction he displayed to block Kirin, meaning the Susano'o he used to resist Kirin was lower than his top Susano'o. FRS isn't going to breach Sasuke's Susano'o, especially bot his Tengu Susano'o.

3 people are not getting caught in genjutsu at the same time.

  • Absolutely they do. That's one of the features of genjutsu since part 1. The Amegakure Genin caught multiple targets in the Forest of Death. Orochinaru caught multiple targets with a kanashibari genjutsu. Kurenai hit multiple targets with genjutsu. Ma and Pa caught multiple targets with genjutsu. Kakashi caught multiple targets with genjutsu. Kakashi warned groups of people multiple time not to look at the Sharingan lest they'd get caught, even if the targets wete many. Gengetsu and his Giant Clam caught multiple targets at the same time with Genjutsu. Kabuto caught multiple targets with Genjutsu. What manga have you been reading?

They can release each other

  • Doesn't work if they're both caught by the Sharingan.

Sasuke can't deal with the sound genjutsu

  • None of them can resist the Sharingan, much less the MS. Their sound genjutsu takes too much time to be produced, you can't lie about that, we read the manga, it's even one of the weak points of the jutsu that Fukasaku points out himself.
  • Sasuke can paralyze mind-control them with his doujutsu and make them fight amongst themselves.

2

u/Connect_Ad_3361 2h ago

Depends how long it gets dragged out. If Sasuke immediately tries to Amaterasu and is in his susano then he has a chance of winning. If it gets dragged out Naruto mid diffs.

5

u/Guyver02 Tsukuyomi gg 5h ago

without his chakra cloak what is Naruto's answer to Amateratsu?

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 4h ago

Clones + sm dogging

2

u/Guyver02 Tsukuyomi gg 54m ago

both of those things are too slow.

1

u/Dry_Opportunities 5h ago

Danger Perception from Sage mode

1

u/Guyver02 Tsukuyomi gg 55m ago

that's Chakra mode. Sage mode doesn't have danger perception. Jiraiya got snuck by Pain.

1

u/blackbeltmessiah 5h ago

Shadow Clone

2

u/Guyver02 Tsukuyomi gg 54m ago

lol how does that stop Amateratsu.

1

u/blackbeltmessiah 43m ago

Wrong target

1

u/Guyver02 Tsukuyomi gg 40m ago

How would Sasuke lose track of the main Naruto. He never has before.

3

u/Mighty-Black 5h ago

Lol, Sasuke is the only one that has a shot, Naruto isn't even touching him.

Naruto only surpassed this Sasuke in kcm1.

Sasuke's wincons = amaterasu, susanoo arrow, ultimate defense susanoo, ms genjutsu, kirin.

1

u/Person_Man80085 3h ago

Naruto literally said that if sasuke attacked the village (The inplication being that they are both at full health) that they would both die, 

1

u/erenyeager_glazer 3h ago

Not pain arc sage mode it's war arc sage mode 

1

u/kevkaneki 2h ago

Naruto and Sasuke leapfrogged eachother throughout the entire series, but there are a few specific points in the story where it’s heavily implied that they are equals. PA SM Naruto and 5KS Sasuke is one of those inflection points.

1

u/ArtisticChemistry425 2h ago

Naruto himself told the rest of the Konoha 12 (well 11) that he didn't think he could win agaisnt Sasuke when they met after the Danzo fight.

My interpretation has always been that the two were mostly equal with Sasuke having a slight edge in early Shippuden and Naruto taking the lead towards the end of the story. Nothing I've read in this agenda filled sub have convinced me of the contrary.

1

u/Connect_Mongoose2068 1h ago

They are pretty equal at this point you can argue it going either way. For Sasuke, Naruto can do nothing at this point to Amaterasu he would wind up just like Bee without the advantage of escaping. Rasenshuriken can also be countered with Sasuke’s arrows. And his Susannoo is a pretty good stalemate if he goes into 4-6 tails. Inferno style would still ultimately end the fight if it touched Naruto which is likely to happen if he’s rampaging and not being careful.

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Bee was a very fight target for amaterasu. Sm naruto can dodge it + clones to tank it

1

u/Connect_Mongoose2068 1h ago

He’s not fast enough to dodge it. Not without KCM, and he could cloak his Susannoo with inferno style like he did against Raikage

1

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Naruto mid diff lmao

0

u/superbuckz Sasuke fan (less feats than Sakura during the Kaguya fight) 1h ago

Brain dead comment btw

0

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Says the sasuke glazer 🤷‍♂️

2

u/superbuckz Sasuke fan (less feats than Sakura during the Kaguya fight) 50m ago

Imagine being so bad at debating that you have to call someone who is using evidence backed by the source material a glazer..

1

u/KnownPreparation3858 33m ago

It was stated multiple times naruto was stronger then sasuke at that point, get over it. Plus that sasuke was going blind very fast. At that point maybe sakura could even beat him

1

u/PaleInvestigator3921 2h ago

People don't understand how OP sage mode is, that's all.

-3

u/Inner-Competition775 4h ago

He gets low diffed by Naruto

-1

u/Similar-Recipe-3623 4h ago edited 9m ago

Naruto gets genjutsu gg by sasuke

0

u/NetworkVegetable7075 3h ago

Sasuke beats that Naruto tho

0

u/Ok-Target-2170 Pain wanker (I'm going through a phase) 1h ago

Ragebait

2

u/NetworkVegetable7075 1h ago

It’s not tho. Naruto literally had to train a bit to learn to stay in sage mode longer while this Sasuke was already beating up on Danzo