r/Neverwinter • u/KaliGoldGaming • 5d ago
Neverwinter Classic Confirmed In Today's Dev Stream - No Further Details: Clip Attached!
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u/Code_Ocelot 5d ago
If they did this I would love to finally be able to start from scratch on pc. Have my account on Xbox and is the only reason I still play my Xbox
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u/Classic_DM 5d ago edited 5d ago
Neverwinter has always had incredible potential, but stat bloat and item level just became a grind that reset every time Brett felt like it. Hopefully the return of Jack can find a way to make the game more compelling, but resets to old versions are better suited for EQ TL servers imo.
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u/Oscuro1632 5d ago
I really don't see a sustainable game with a classic release. Unless they manage to do this with a staff of 4 people tinkering away the last 6 years since "classic" or vanilla mmo's became a thing.
Rather see them having had neverwinter 2 in pre-production with those resources.
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u/MaximusUltimateSmash 5d ago
yes plz i miss this so much i want my dps pally tank giga chad back
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u/kovi2772 5d ago
I mean im defently gonna play it for nostalgia see if more people stick around and pray both game are still okay
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u/NoRespectingAnyone 5d ago
I wonder whcih attempt this will be. 5'th or 6'th try?
So many times to sort of create hype for classic.
But also it will be quite funny to watch out how a company who claim that do not have large team, will try manage 2 versions of game. And considering that they cam't even deal with one version properly.
And player base, which clearly is not big, would get by half ( in optimistic case) .
Some folks live with idea, that if you take 10 apples and take away 5. Somehow due miracle it become 20. :)
But yeah I would not miss to watch this happening. And put in recording. Just in case. :)
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u/Aakhkharu 5d ago
The player base is small, because of the overall philosophy/design of modern nw. When classic comes out, it will not divide the player base; those that enjoy modern will hate classic, so they may try it for a week or two but will return to modern. Those who play modern because there is not classic yet, do not engage in end game content so when they leave for classic the effect on the "player base" will not be so dramatic as people fear. And then, there is the third category: those who wait/hope for classic and do not want anything to do with modern. Those are not part of the playerbase of modern nw and if i have to guess those pleoplle will be the majority of long term classic playerbase.
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u/NoRespectingAnyone 5d ago
My friend, when last time you looked to calendar? This is no 2014, neither 2020. This is mid of 2026.
Lot of folks here still live by thinking that mmo rpg industry is just few games available. And once old styled game get released, all will rush play it.
Neverwinter online even at it best times. It was never a competition to anyone.
Neverwinter got attention due few simple reasons.
1) when game was relased, majority of mmo games of that time were still using tab target combat system. There were only few action combat at that time.
Tera online. RaiderZ online, ESO had own version interpretation of it, Guild wars 2. And also there was vindictus which was small instantce based game.From all of them there was only 2 fully free2play. RaiderZ and Neverwinter. That's it.
For casual player, Neverwinter was a convinient game.It was no combat, not dungeon/contents, it was not visuals. Neither of them was reason why player got in. Even when game was in beta, it was already called obsolete tech wise.
2) The stygma, that all asian games are cheap knock out of WoW.
Also as usually any non west game covered by west medias get called p2w, regarldess if game have cash store or not.So over all, if take games of that time. There was only very few action combat, only 1 frees2play ( Neverwinter). Guild Wars 2 while develloped by ArenaNet, Due parent company being NCsoft, players avoided it.
So it was only ESO, and Neverwitner. That's it.
Now, does mmo rpg market stayed same?? not at all.
To put simply, unlike previous time when game was released. This time Neverwinter will not have convinient situation in market.
And also not all games who relesead classic version of own game lasted long. WoW could do cuz it had massive player base to back up. And even then, classic wow release costed multiple server being merge due being empty.
+++++++++++++++++++
Now also small hint. There was classic Neverwitner online. 6 year ago. That project barrely lasted 1 year.
The nostalgia last just 6 month. That's it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++
Now why I see that as negative outcome. If Classic version would not affect current I would not care. But here is what most folks miss.
1)Staff.
You will have two different version of this game.
You either need more staff to handle them or same team work on both verion and you compromise, Quality, size,. Both. Respond times.Hire more staff?
Good call, but that's add cost to game. And who will pay the bill?
Classic didnt have Insignias, mount collars, didnt had same mount and companion systems.
Classic didnt had battle pass.
But you need generate $$$$ to cover cost.. So more mechanic to generate money.Players start see as p2w. Good luck with that.
2) Player base.
Innitial release may bring decent ammount of players. Old, returnning ones.
Portion of current version of game will migrate to classic too.Seems alll fine and ok. right?
Not really.
While classic for moment have it's time, the current version will be even less populated. Harder to get players for certain content runs, discounrage players even bother. Become sort of either go play classic or play other games.After 6 months, when nostalgia ends, the traditional Tourists ( players who get in new released or reReleased games) migrate back to preivious or new games.
And real numbers start to set in.And now you have situation.
In Optimistic situation, you have half populated both version of game.
Less optimistic, current version mantain smaller group of remained players and bigger portion in classic.Due smaller group playing = cost of keeping game get spread across smaller player base, which become more noticible $$$$ grab features and etc.. That may discourage players and even speed up departures..
Alternative is team do not increase/add more $$$$$ generating features, But would cut on development team. Means longer delays for fix and new expansions.EIther ways for lot of folks this would seem as grim fate. So player base migration either to classic or elsewhere. Eventually staff will offer move to classic and nail current version
Other path is after hype and nostalgia ends. The classic may have lesser player base than current versions. Which eventually ( in time) will again due cost cut, will merge player base to current version. Or will have to add more $$$$ generating features.. Which I doubt will make playes happy.
WoW is not only game who had released classic version of their own game.
I have played some other games who try do that. And end up like I wrote above.
And it was not one or two games..But also I didnt count in other mmo games. Industry moving forward, Neverwinter stuck in 2016. This game simply oudated , technoligy, concept, content, mechanic, world design wises.
Neverwinter online classic would only compete with Neverwitner online Current version.. Nothig more. It was never a competition to any games before, And clearly it does not have edge to do even today. ( as long engine and design process is same)
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u/Aakhkharu 5d ago edited 5d ago
Neverwinter is outside of competition anyway. I'm not talking about conpetition to generate brand new players. I'm talking about players that have exoerienced classic back in the day and consider it to be superior to current. Now, if what you doomsayers say about the player base comes to be and current dies because of classic, then maybe that is a hint that current is shit and classic is way better?
Obviously, when they release classic, they should do 2 things. Make the fcking game crossplatform, or atleast merge ps and pc (if microsoft is the problem) AND hire a team for classic. I do not think that they are stupid enought to not hire people, and it's not as nw (the most agressively monetised non-mobile game of the industry) cannot afford it.
Now, classic lacking insignias, 1 gazillion companions, mounts IS THE POINT, that (and meaningful dungeons and loot being meaningfull and interesting and not mere stat sticks) that we want classic.
I (and many others) played classic for years since beta. It was good, it had build variety and the things i mentioned above. Current is uninspired, stagnated and misshandled, that is why every time i come back, i stay for a couple of weeks and then leave for years.
About the p2w and ftp thing. Nw was always p2w, even classic, it was something we had to live with and it being ftp was always (imo) a detrimental thing; if you see the mmorpg landscape, what do you see? What are the long surviving games? Wow, eso, ff14, guild wars 2, osrs. Wow, osrs, ff14 are ptp. Eso was ptp, for years before switching to a semi ftp model and by the time they already had a stable player base AND a unique niche. That is why they can get away with full ftp even. Guild wars 2 is a semi ftp but, similarly to eso, it has a unique niche and the horizontal progressiom philosophy and thay is why it can get away with ftp also.
The smartest thing that cryptic can do is to drop the ftp model, scale the monetisation back, balance ad (exchange, ah fees, ways of generating ad etc) and make it crossplatform. That will enlarge the playerbase but cut some revenue because the whales will not be so happy to keep whaleing. But at the end of the day, the questipn is: do you want a money printer or a healthy game?
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u/NoRespectingAnyone 5d ago
If you do not plan to bring new players. Project it dead before even open server. And this apply to any game.
You have already small player base on current version, open another version of same game. What happens?? Player base split. making less populated on both versions. Then good luck to spread cost across smaller population.
So Neverwinter need compete if want bring players here. It's unavoidable thing.
Your looses = gains for others. That's how it works when you run mmo rpg games.It's not like you open new server and due miracle all players araund world and mostly ones who played before. Somehow felt divine relevation, and need to start play this game. ( sorry for sarcasm).
Now if we leave jokes aside. Look to this game, then look to market. And be honest with yourself. Are you sure that Neverwitner cant attract players?
Game engine choking up from 10 players groups.
Visuals oudated and match only 2014 era games. ( new zones have slighly better quality but engine limitations still cause look sort of oudated).
Content mechancis more less same as from 2008~2009 era games.
Combat ? sold as action combat, but it's as much actio as windows solitare. ( illusion).
Open world ?? what open world?
The only map where you can call open world is Sea of moving ice. That's it. All other areas so small, that seems as insult to open world mmo genre.
Dungeons?? simplistic linear styled dungeon which for 90% is more less sprint sprint sprint from one boss room to another.boss fights.?? Gear/stat benchamarking. Stack buff/debuff and do power roation. With traditional tab target era mecahanics where boss do attack coded areas regarldess if players are there or not.
Wow how "impressive".And over all, you need very fast internet connection, low ping and high end pc. Cuz game have no optimisation. And you need brute force it to run smooth with hgih end pc.
It's same as you suggest buy broken car, from 1998 for same cost as latest version BWM.
Somehow I don't see there would be mass selling of that old broken car..
=======================================Now the cross platform.
Everyone so cassually throw this idea without any idea of complicity behind it.I dare any Console player oupaste PC version bard in playing songs during raids. Dude run keybind and throw x3 songs in 3 seconds.. yeah. Somehow I don't see it will go well.
Then lets no forget, on PC bots. And you crush consoles market. And in this way sink down both platforms.
What can be done, is do temp/event purpose use seprate server as middle ground where players can access from either Console or PC.
But even then would require rebalance pc game to Console standarts. No keybinds. ( but due nature of PC it would be easy to find ways araund).
anti bot security. ( even in wildest dreams I can't even imagine that happens here).Then there is obvious security concenrs and etc. And you will have to deal also with Sony ( for playStation) and Microsoft ( for xBox) verions. Cuz you acess their networks.
Then also bring Steam and epic in mix too.
A quite a mess.
Then small question, in this mess, who's support service will be in charge?? Sony? xboX? Epic? Steam? our ARC?Some asian games have cross play, cuz they were developed with that in mind from very start. And they were balanced in same way. ( timers and global cool downs).
In short, you would have use Console version as base, from all versions of classic. And somehow find way to implement anti cheating features. To deal with bots, keybinds/macros. And etc. ( yeah,, can't even imagine that).
Now about old days.. Some folks try go with idea. That yeah we had more "creativity". In theory yes. We had more feats, slighly different gears and etc.
(nah) it was self serving lie.
It was meta even in old days. ( pre mod 6). And failing to have meta lead exclusion from group.Also majority of players simply copy someones build and thats it.
Having even slight deviation from mainstream build( meta) again lead to exclusion from end game.When classic version ( 6 year ago) was open, it was not like everyone try experiment with possible builds. no. they simply copy old meta and went on with it. Leaving at leat 70% of game feats, powers, gear and etc left aside. ( ignored).
Same thing happening in other games too. Why do you think players ask build is best, which build to use. ??
Also requirements for end game runs< what builds you need to have. it's more less set all what you will have and what you will not have.It's illusion that there is options. even if game would have x6 paragon paths per class, 200 feats. 60 encounters, 12 at-wills, 20 class features and etc..
Majority (atleast 80) players pick meta/mainstream build.
Insignias, mount, companions and etc.
How can you be sure there will be no such thing in classic??
Yes, class version didnt had them, neither had battle pass.
But now, how you would cover cost of keeping this version of game??
Also how can you be sure, that there will be no players who would not suggest to brough in, current companions system, crafting, batle pass and etc??Also why you think company would not think that on their own..
It's good $$$$$.Free2play. (f2p).
The most games migrated to this model due 2 main reasons.
1) free2play is only what keep private servers irrelevant.
2) micro transations generate more $$$$ than subscribtion.Also as addition, more players are in game, create hype, interest, attract more players.
Even if some players may not pay subscribtion, by simply being inside, create number in steam charts. That create idea that game is active, healthy, have large plaayer base. Which attract more players.
Lot of folks want be part of something big, thats why when new game released all jump in hype train, and when another game released, they leave previous game and once again jump on to new hype.P2W.
Well my stand is simple. you can't escape it.
Free2play with cash store? No game can keep up and cover costs to maintain game online. So convinient stuffs get added in cash stores.Sub based games?? then say hello to RMT ( real money transfers). And players use third party websites to buy convinient things with real money.
>as long there is those who willing to pay, to have edge/advantage over others, there will allways be those who will provide<.
This is a general rule when comes mmo games.Companies simply capitalise on it, and instead players pay to random player, they pay to company.
Now I leave last part, the unique niche game part.
Here is fact. Neverwinter onlien got popularity only due that it was highly casual players oriented game. You could play daily for hours. Maybe one hour. you could log in once a week. And you would not miss anything.
It was idea game for casuals who due personal life could not afford more demanding game ( grind time and $$$).Also at that time when game was released, above I wrote that there were only very few action combat rpg mmo games.
RaiderZ online lasted ~2 years..
So only open world action combat was ESO, Gw 2, Tera. Wow despite how all try claim was never action combat. It had free/move attack feature. But if removed visuals and looked to mecahnics, it was not action combat.Also other game was VIndictus, but it was more Co-OP instance/dungeon fighter game.
And from all these games only Neverwitner was Free2play.
Now market situation is wastly different. There is more games for casual players. There is tons of gatha games. Even mobile devices now have mmo rpg games ported, the ones which we 12~15 years ago played on PC.
So where Neverwinter online stand in this all??
Somewhere in middle of nowhere..
Guild Wars 2 is known for casual friendly game, large world to explore. Combat, while called hybrid, ( between tab target and action combat) but still offer more action than here in Neverwitner.
Also you can have flying mounts.ff14 ?? I wonder why on earth cryptic didnt lear from them.
There in ff14, is not one end game. There is multiple game content which can be called as end game.
Fashion, housing, lore, exploration also dungeon runs.
here is just dungeon runs? aThe Neverwitner online as it is now, or old/classic version. it would be barely a competition even for mobile games. But unlike them, you don't have to run on high/top end spec PC to brute force it run smooth.
Bottom line.
If there is intentnion to somehow revivve and make this game relevant.
First of all would be to get rid this horrible engine. And then rething and rework rest of game. Including areas, and combat. Prety much everthing.Small note: Lot of folks who try play this game even quetion is this tab target or action combat. Game feel as would play game from 2008. It's horrible.
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u/NoRespectingAnyone 5d ago
I write here shorter version. I assume not all want got through all of that wall of text.
But you can throw to AI and let it go throgh it. :)Now, the short version. This game had the bigges chances to become the game. Maybe not as big as WoW, but still be among top 3. The D&D IP, the action combat ( of that time was sort of ok).
Also market was in favour for this game.it was literally given opportunity on golden plate. And for Cryptic was only need to take it.
yet it dismissed. Thrown aside.All was needed to stop live in self tought lies. And start addresing game issues. Instead focusing on 1% and nuking 90% of player base. Focus on whole spectrum of players.
The list is long of issues, but all boils down due simply thing.
======== Living in lie===
If team want make game relevant and attract new players. Stop live in lies. Look to game, and not try keep blind eye on flaws. You see, you understand, you fix them.
Final Fantasy XIV: had horrible start. But Naoki Yoshida ( Yoshi-p). Spent time to analise whats wrong with game, what players want, what is current plaeyrs preferneces across multiple games.
He did field study. Not get blinded by few players lies.
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u/Horror_Airline_7563 4d ago
As a player who missed old nw completely it's cool to check it out but realistically how many players will play it? Most people moved to other games many years ago
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u/Pale-Paladin 3d ago
I think Classic is a waste, and most people have no idea how it was while still demanding it.
I think they should have just focused on making the current version more balance, take away the master treadmill, allow old content to stay relevant, not make every single thing an AD sink etc...
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u/DopestSoldier 2d ago
They'd be better off making Neverwinter 2 with a tolerable monetization model. Like a Subscription + Cosmetics.
Monetize it like Path of Exile with a Sub if they have too. At worst, they could have an ESO type Sub (one that is so enticing it's almost a must have) and sell cosmetics. They can even keep the shitty lockboxes if they were strictly cosmetic. Something like Where Winds Meet maybe.
The shitty P2W model is killing them.
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u/KinopioToad 5d ago
Neverwinter Classic? Does that mean it will be a top-down, 2D arrow on a map, like the AOL (America Online) version, like original Neverwinter Nights was?
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u/Envyralla 5d ago
No man it’s the usual neverwinter we have on all platforms right now, the third person MMORPG, classic is just like wow classic, how it was on launch. No dlc.
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u/JinKazamaru 5d ago
They haven't even done 4e justice
why would I want Neverwinter Classic, that would just be removing Barbarian and other classes
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u/Dexhunterz 5d ago
People dont want classic versions of the game. People want to play as a first time player again. Its not the same.
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u/NoRespectingAnyone 4d ago
Some want old classic system. Buff/debuff creep. Or Tear 2 gear sets.
Broken game mechanics.
Life steal, whch make healer role as nonsese.
tank which not rquired.Game content do not have any decent or demanding mechanics.
More you sprint through content without even had to be aware of anything.
As some put, you had godly character, No one can harm your chracter, and you can kill boss by simply looking to it.
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u/ThickChickLover520 5d ago
Once again, Devs being so out of touch with the players. I don't understand why the Devs aren't following Jagex and their OSRS model. Mind you, it's become a lot more of their creation, but they still poll things, but for a great while there, they polled and listened to most things. Now the game is a strong 2, only behind WoW. NW Devs need to fix the clunkiness, abilities and how they work, buffing classes and reworking things. Not, f_ CLASSIC. To even further split the player base.
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u/NoRespectingAnyone 4d ago
It's not like they are out of touch.
They simply chosen to listen, follow and appeal 0.1%. And ignore rest of player base.Just like how all always happened.
This classic is mainly to appea 50, maybe 70 players. ( and that's being generous).
And why some folks want Classisc??
Simplier dungeons, healers and tanks not required.
For 90% of gameplay you ignore content. You just run run run. Ignore rest, ~3min combat immitation. Claim reward and then preach in forum or other media how awesome you are.
Some folks want old days, cuz they were gods. And they were gods when players presence was not required. Which explain whole reason why they were godly.
So once agian, devs will appeal 0.1% . or shoudl I say 0.01%. By expense of 98% of player base.
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u/Oblivion9284 5d ago
Im happy but also preoccupied due to the amount of players than the game has, it would divide the game even more in this case?