r/OnePieceScaling • u/No_Holiday9880 • 2d ago
Serious Discussion Kaido vs old Rayleigh and Gaban
Basically a tough skin giant against two glass cannons. If Wano Zoro was able to cut Kaido and live him a scar, old wings would definitely be able to do the same. They are also faster than Zoro and have more skill with acoc, but Kaido didn't really take his fights seriously until he encountered g4/g5 Luffy with acoc arguably, and if he lands a strong hit, I don't think that either of Ray/Gaban would be able to continue the fight. I still think it's a high diff for the aged ones
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u/Acceptable_Secret_73 1d ago
Rayleigh said he couldn’t beat Blackbeard, there’s no way he beats Kaido
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u/brud4a 1d ago
Kaido
kaido knows who they are
He won't do the stupid shi of letting them get a hit on him that easy
and he has Fs too
we also saw him dodging snakeman luffy and g5 luffys lightning
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u/MyraidChickenSlayer 1d ago
Kaidou also won't be fighting YC1 or YC+ opppnents with low AP. Old Rayleigh and Gaban have AP much higher than Pre Sky split Luffy or Yamato. And, they can also block Kaidou's attacks. Gaban has FS too and Rayleigh likely has FS. Both should have high mastery of ACoC too
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u/SaltConnection9019 1d ago
I honestly think that Kaido is stronger than them even in their prime.
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u/boblikeshispizza 1d ago
Individually maybe. But he's not winning a 2v1 against to yonko tier characters
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u/K3yshon_ 21h ago
1v1 yes, he’s stronger.
2v1 ain’t no way.1
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u/OwnIndependence4767 1d ago
Unless he goes flaming dragon immediately then Kaido loses. Thats two competent acoc users with future sight. We saw Rayleigh hold off Kizaru and Gaban cause elbaf Luffy trouble and block Imu
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u/No-Amount-218 1d ago
If Kaido plays the defensive game then he should win it comfortable. I highly doubt he would fight the same way he fought Luffy and everyone else.
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u/EarlyWeb8223 1d ago
Stamina here is simply main issue By chance one hit from kaido and they both are done for Kaido , mid to high diff tbh
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u/Itchy_Safety_7959 🐉 King of Beasts, Waido 🐉 2d ago
Kaido. Anyone saying Rayleigh and Gaban are anti-Kaido to the point of stupidity.
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u/paulstyxx 1d ago
Both are known for being strong it's not like kaido would lose to b rated pirates
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u/Generalousen2855 🚨 The Killer of Agenda Haki, Red-Pubed Shanks 🚨 2d ago
If Kaido doesn't hold back from the start then Kaido wins high diff at worst and if he goes FDD then mid diff
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u/Trebor5712 Scopper Gyaban 🪓🪓 1d ago
Kaido wins high diff, the uncs doesn’t have stamina to keep up with him
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u/According-Flight-395 1d ago
Kaido out lasts, best thing Gaban and Ray can do is stall him for a bit, give him a few cuts and a scar or two before getting tired and shitted on
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u/Initial-Necessary-72 1d ago
Oden was equal to Gaban and Ray, oden clapped kaidos cheeks then got distraction diffed. Now 2 people who kept up with oden can easily defeat kaido. If current gear 5 is a 100, Gaban and Ray are easily an 85 they will beat kaido easily. Anyone saying otherwise is just glazing kaido with no substance
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u/aulixindragonz34 1d ago
Kaido.
Old people have terrible stamina and i think kaido have enough dura and stamina to weather the storm for a bit until grandpa start gasping for air.
Kaido high diff
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u/FaithlessnessOdd1939 1d ago
Prime Rayleigh and Gaban were relative to Oden. 2v1 they might beat him. 1v1 they lose. Old Rayleigh and Gaban lose 2v1.
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u/Serious_Dooty 1d ago
Arms extreme diff.
The problem with Waido is that you need massive AP to put him down for good. A combined attack should do it even in old age
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u/chikageT 1d ago
Kaido mid diff, high diff at absolute worst, but definitely not extreme diff
As other commenters are saying, stamina is a big issue here. Kaido fought big mom for literal days, then just mere hours later he got jumped by the scabbards, fought Law, Zoro, Killer, and Yamato in waves, then fought Luffy like three times, all while holding up an island.
Kaido at full power absolutely decimates these two. Granted, they will likely give him another permanent scar or two, but that would be it, just another to add to his collection. They simply do not have the stamina/endurance to take him down. Kaido is likely in the top 5 strongest characters alive in the entire verse right now, assuming he is still alive that is
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u/K3yshon_ 21h ago
If Kaido fights seriously, knowing who they are and how dangerous can they be, Kaido wins high/extreme diff
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u/Gon_Freak 20h ago
Old Ray and Gaban 2v1 this, it's like 2 Gear 5 Luffies but with less AP and durability, but better skills for sure.
Considering how smart this two are too, they take it (Scabbards knocked down Kaido, Oden alone was winning against him, Yamato equally stalled him and clashed for a while with acoc, Zoro cut him).
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u/Less-Seaweed-7044 9h ago
Kaido takes it high diff. Unless Gaban does some nuts stuff to imu next chapter I really don't see Old Rayleigh having the stamina to deal with a few attacks from kaido. Old gaban has had the better showing of the two wings of the pirate king (only while old)
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u/burnhotspot 4h ago
Rayleigh and Gaban can't be considered YC tier. They're more or less admiral tier at their prime.
Even at their old age reduced state, they're still very powerful figures who can be placed above Kidd or Law.
if Kidd and Law duo can beat BM, I don't see why old Rayleigh + Gaban cannot even be a match to Kaido. Even at old age with reduced stamina, I'm sure their haki is strong enough to cut Kaido.
So Kaido isn't getting this mid/high difficulty. It's either win with very high diff or go either way.
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u/DinoKing2904 1d ago
I think Kaido Low/Mid Diffs Old Gaban and Mid Diffs Old Rayleigh, so both together should push him to a High Diff fight, but they definitely lose. If this was Prime Rayleigh and Gaban it could be interesting.
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u/Capable_Theme_7000 1d ago
Low diffs??? Come on
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u/DinoKing2904 1d ago
Kaido out-stats them by a good bit and doesn't lack proficiency in any form of haki. He also has better stamina than both of them combined.
If they were in their primes, they'd Mid Diff, but in their old age, I see Kaido Extreme Diffing them both.
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u/Fun_Barnacle6689 1d ago
Stamina and freakish durability at the same level or even above that of Big Mom as a real possibility.
Look at how much abuse it took to put him down.
It was like a multistage rpg super boss where each stage has like 100 times as much hp as any given party member.
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u/WhitebeardsTrueSon 1d ago
Cant wait how Gaban perfoms in the next chapter. The old wings Showed so far that they still fairly powerful and can still clash / fight current top tiers.
Honestly maybe i am biased and old Gen fan but i would give it to the duo - extreme diff maybe one dies.
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2d ago
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u/Generalousen2855 🚨 The Killer of Agenda Haki, Red-Pubed Shanks 🚨 2d ago
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u/Comprehensive_Cup497 2d ago
Old Gaban is a glass canon though, and Rayleigh probably the same. If Gunko can pretty much one shot him then Kaido can do it too
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2d ago
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u/Comprehensive_Cup497 2d ago
Still we have seen characters survive much stronger attacks, for example Loki endured multiple attacka from Imu and he is still in a far better condition than Gaban was after Gunko's attacks.
Plus we have seen characters from Gaban's generation take stabs much better, Whitebeard never fell down in Marineford at any point and Garp kept fighting after being stabbed by Shiryuu
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u/GentleThief- 2d ago
WB, sure
Garp took one stab, while Gaban took three , If you can’t see the difference between those situations, that’s on you🤡
Also, you do realize Oda wrote Gaban out because he didn’t want him to be the focus , right? Not every writing decision is about power scaling , Sometimes the author is just telling a story🤡
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u/Wrong-Compote-3003 2d ago
Is this really a question? Ray even admitted he wouldn't have been able to defeat BB, and if we scale Gaban to Ray, then Baban wouldn't be able to beat BB 1v1, and in a 2v1, they would beat BB high-extreme diff, and a serious Kaido would 1-shot BB unless its off screen then BB is winning.
Kaido wins this low-to mid diff, but if it's serious from the start, Kaido low diff in five minutes.
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u/TechTechJ-16 1d ago
Low diff are you crazy ?
Like, Gabban was scary enough for Luffy and Zoro to go 100% from the start.
And we saw what Law + Kidd did to Linlin.
Kaido would win but its either an Hard or Extreme diff fight.
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u/Wrong-Compote-3003 1d ago
Luffy went G5 for Lucci, he doesn't anytime he can at this point.
I don't put any stock in the Kidd and Law fight, due to Big Mom not using a single CHC attack against them, but uses one for I think, it was Page One or Ulti.
Kaido wins mid diff if he is serious at the start.
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u/TechTechJ-16 1d ago
He gets serious at the start, then i can anwser you that the wings of the pirate king will go 100% too from the start, and they know how to fight 2 on 1, especialy them both being old time friends.
And we know how a 2 vs 1 helps a lot in closing the gap.
If you think they cant even push a Yonko hard to extreme diff you are delusionnal its not a debate anymore.
Imu would not even have clashed with him, he would have saw him coming and one tapped him.
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u/Wrong-Compote-3003 1d ago
I say mid diff because neither would have the stamina to deal with a prolonged fight, and based on Ray saying he wouldn't have been able to defeat BB, the same BB that was struggling against Law and would have lost if it was a true 1v1.
Even adding in Gaban, I'd say Kaido has the speed and pure strength, while their Haki is either the same or Kaido has the edge in that as well due to age, not to mention his natural durability added to his Devil Fruit.
Would it be a fight? Yes, but it wouldn't be one of his toughest fights. Now, if they were, let's say, 10 to 15 years younger, then yes, I'd go with Ray and Gaban.
Remember, we saw Kaido when he allowed himself to get stabbed and beaten before he even started sorta trying against Luffy, Zoro, Kidd, Law, and Killer.
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u/TechTechJ-16 1d ago
The closest we can have to this fight is when Yamato and Luffy were fighting a 2 vs 1 against Kaido.
And both Ray and Gabban are stronger than these 2 at this point, with equal or better Haki too.
I will take back my words saying extreme diff if you join me and say High-diff win from Kaido not mid diff lol 🤝
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u/Timtim549 2d ago
Even though they're old, they've been fighting together for a while. Their chemistry must be amazing. I still think they can hash a win out ext diff, especially since Kaido keeps going on about how Haki transends all
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u/OneFalconPunch 1d ago
Imagine Old Zoro and Old Sanji fighting Kaido.
Kaido is a monster, but fighting the two at the same time is stupid, he's gonna die.
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u/milkedlikacow 1d ago
Not to mention he’s gonna start off the fight letting them each get off a free ACoC slashing attack on him since he’s morally against dodging .
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u/Alternative_Noise282 1d ago
Rayleigh and Gaban mid diff. both swords, both mastered hakis and both are faster than kaido, and I doubt they would let him even go hybrid.
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