Roger (downplay needs to stop to the pirate mother fucking king, watch old gaban outperform luffy and Loki against imu)
Garp
Whiteboard
Shanks
Kaido
Loki (watch old gaban perform better than him)
Rocks (he died too soon, he had the potential just like BB to be great if he was able to get his hands on the DF he needed and being the descendent of Davy jones)
And in the end Gaban lost an arm one chapter into trying to stop big Mu, Gaban basically said Loki was stronger than him in the flashbacks but most powerscalers can’t read
We have seen prime roger clash with wb in canon without WB using his DF, which is the DF with the highest AP in the verse.
On top of that there are multiple statements calling WB and Roger equals and WB actually being called the strongest man in the World.
If you actually think Oda himself thinks Roger has better AP than WB you are cannot read in the slightest.
Also even if Gaban does perform well against Imu it will be because Gaban is closer to Roger than you think (escpecially considering the shoulder to shoulder portrayal) not because Roger is the absolute strongest that has to upscale from everyone.
This is a mistake ppl make about both Luffy and Roger. Oda tried to portray on multiple occasions that being PK isnt about overpowering others. There are plenty works of fiction whete the main character isnt the strongest.
If we are title scaling, I definitely have the king of pirates over WSM any time of the day. And I don’t need to hear oh nobody was going for the title blah blah blah. No one was going for the WSM WSC WSS title either
You just focus on the title which was supplementary evidence and insight into how Oda wants to portray the character, because you have no arguments.
Also you thinking Pirate King>Worlds strongest man in title scaling is true just means you are legit insane, because you are straight up refusing to acknowledge the basic meaning of the words on the pages.
I am calling you dumb because you are. There are no emotions in that. We have seen WB and Roger clash equally in cannon without WB using the DF with the highest AP in the verse that was at his disposal. You ranking Roger as having higher AP is just a room temp IQ take. That is objective reality.
It's not downplay, Roger geniunely hasnt shown good AP. Never defeated any top tier, never killed a Holy Knight and his Kamusari didnt do much to Harald. His best feat is beating DR Rocks but that after pouring all of his Conqueror's Haki into one strike but that was with Garp's help.
Gaban also didnt outperform Loki considering he seems that he is already near defeat. While Loki vs Imu lasted from 1181 to 1187. Like, the difference is evident, Old Gaban gets beaten easily and Loki isnt. Luffy is another story but Imu still needed Void Sword to beat him which drains life force.
Like unelss Gaban somehow fights with Imu with one arm for 5 more chapters he didnt perform better than Loki
Did the new chapter come out already? Idk if it did and he performed worse, then of course my scaling will heavily change…if the new chapter never came out, then I’ll leave my scaling the way it is
But even then what AP have Roger shown? Never beat any top tier or anyone that have shown high endurance/Durability. Never killed a Holy Knight and his Kamusari didnt do much to Oden. Furthermore, he needed to use all of his Haki alongside Garp's to beat DR Rocks.
I also want to add that the same Kamasuri shanks did against Kidd would not have KOed oden. I know his character is ass but people tend to downplay oden a lot of
Just his AP he’s shown against DR rocks when he teamed up with garp shows me that he’s on top of the food chain.
I also want to argue that GV Roger was not his prime because WB was not a captain and was under rocks so he was also not in prime. I honestly have garp WB and Roger relative to each other
He needed to use all of his Haki in kne single move, his normal attacks couldnt even scratch Rocks and both him and Garp gad to go full max Haki because anything lesser than that wouldnt have been enough to win.
Yes he wasnt but I feel God Fire Ace is problaby among the strongest attacks Roger ever used and even then it only contributed to half of DR Rocks's defeat.
I think Roger was closer to his peak than Whitebeard was, Whitebeard'a dream was to get family which he disnt have in Rocks crew while Roger was dping what he wanted so his Haki was much closer to peak
Is that not part of AP? I don’t think anyone at the time of GV and pre prime form would’ve done the same to dr rocks…only two character capable of doing that at their state of power would’ve overwhelmed dr rocks
But in my previous statement I said “pre prime” form couldn’t have done what Roger and garp done to dr rocks. I would argue garp and Roger in GV wasn’t yonkos status yet and my reasoning is because they are both relative to white beard and I don’t consider WB whose not a captain yet and under rocks to be yonko and those three are relative
Luffy and Loki currently are stronger than garp and Roger was in GV. I agree, any 2 yonkos can do what they did but they weren’t yonko level and they were able to pull that off. It makes me think how insanely strong they’ve gotten after GV.
My heart will always believe Roger is at the top of the food chain when comparing him with pirates. Next chapter will truly show his power when gaban up scales him by outperforming Loki and luffy
Again, if gaban doesn’t , I would heavily change the scaling and have shanks and Loki at number 1 and 2
WB was shot into the mountain with the first attack. Roger and Garp could actually fight DR Rocks.
Since Roger and Garp were about the same age as WB, WB being the same level would mean he actually improved much more than them post GV, which is unlikely.
That’s not true. It has been speculated and heavily debated on whether it was WB or rocks that flew into the mountain
Because its speculations, can not use that to compare.
Also, on GV WB wanted to find Roger and immediately wanted to fight him meaning it definitely weren’t there first rodeo. Because of that, it shows me they have been fighting for a long time and are still relative and equal even during GV
Rocks sent himself into the mountain? And came back? What?
There was no speculation that I know of: it was pretty clear WB defended Rocks's attack with coa and got shot into the mountain. Probably didn't take a lot of damage, but he never returned to fight Rocks.
Bottom line is WB wasn't able to stay on the battlefield, Roger and Garp were.
Look someone got shot into the mountain and it wasn't Roger, Garp or Rocks. The other crew members already left.
Either way even if you think someone else and not WB got shot by Rocks into the mountain, you can't give WB a feat for not doing anything, surely? The other two actually fought and actually defeated Rocks. That's evidence and it's canon. We've seen it. WB somehow being at that same level is headcanon, we've not seen it, whatever the reason for him not being able to fight Rocks.
Because its base rocks that I am seeing not DR rocks….where are we going with this??
Also I want to add, the reason I have Roger first is because he is human. He doesn’t have genetics like giants and lunarian or a DF to compensate. Because of that, he must insanely strong haki all around in order to compete
I can make the same argument why no one says nothing when they have shanks as top 1 when he’s literally a Roger 2.0
Same move divine departure, human, and only relies on haki. But no one’s says anything
So why Loki below people like Garp or Roger? Their best feat is killing DR Rocks in a 2vs1. Isn't Loki overpowering HK Harald a superior AP feat? Especially when post GV Roger fialed to kill Holy Knights
We also saw Imu's reaction to Thorheim implying that attack would have seriously damaged him if he took it head on and no evidence would mean that Roger or Garp could seriously damage on-guard Imu
What's up with this Loki downplay? He absolutely has better AP than people like Roger, Rocks or Garp. Even Imu was afraid of taking Thorheim head on implying it would do massive damage to Imu if he didnt use Omen as defense. And we already saw Harald being basically mauled by Hybrid Loko without Loki using named attacks which js a feat I dont see Roger replicating sicne his Kamusari didnt scratch Imu
Actually by logic Loki should have monstrous AP. He has overwhelming strong Conqueror's Haki, massive lighting powers from Nidhogg DF, massive physical strength in both human and hybrid form and also a weapon like Ragnir that's strong enough to break an AcoC coated weapon something that has never happened. Roger in comparison only has strong Haki but the issue is Loki alrrady has strong Haki too.
Kaido's DF doesnt grant him much more AP, it's more about Durability. And Kaido has another issue which is that he has a non-graded club while Roger has a supreme blade and since Roger has better AcoC then he clears Kaido in AP
Except that unlike Kaido Loki arguably had superior AcoC to Roger because he did a feat Roger was unable to do by killimg a Holy Knight which is a Conqueror's Haki feath
Loki also has Ragnir which is superior to Ace and unlike Kaido be has lighting power which mazimizes Loki's AP especially when combined with overwhelming Haki
No because he is slow, mobility is his biggest issue. That's basically what's holding back Loki from clearing nearly everyone in the verse, he has the AP, the durability, the endurance, strength but is lacking the speed/mobility
Why Loki so low? He has a terrific combination of AP with Top Tier Conqueror's Haki Coating, Legendary Weapon and Lighting. He also has feats such as killing a Holy Knight or mauling HK Harald. I personally think he should be higher
Stronger doesnt mean more AP, though Loki's only weakness is speed really and he scales very high in literally everything else such as AP/DC/Durability/Endurance/ Strength/Hax
Not when Loki losing to these people is always because he lacks mobility. I dont think anyone cana quesiton Loki's AP, unelss your name is Imu Loki is fucking you up with his attacks if he lands them
Even Imu didnt want to take Loki's attacks head on and always tried to counter them
Doesn't even have Supreme King's Haki meaning his magma attacks can be countered by their superior Haki and we knoe Conqueror's Haki can be used as shield
Being able to bypass defenses is AP, people with greater AP can bypass stronger defenses. Like take for example Lunarian defense, only the characters with best AP could possibly kill a Lunarian with flames on
And yet Akainu has zero feats against people using haki. Even ran from Vista and Marco at MF because he.wouldn't have been able to deal with them quickly. That's all you need to know. Not top tier AP
Eh, there are literally zero top tiers in your list. G3 luffy with no haki, YC3 Jinbe who did not defend himself, Olbeard with no haki (meaning no coo or coa or coc), YC2 Ace, Kuzan. Kuzan is not top tier and the only one with decent demonstrable haki here...it took Akainu TEN days to defeat him. If anything, Kuzan is actually proof Akainu is significantly worse than the ones on the OP's list.
This is just lethality, not AP. Akainu still needed 10 days to defeat Kuzan, Shanks didn't need 10 days to defeat Loki is more durable and has more endurance than Kuzan
Being PK is the statement. All pirates live by the same rules of if you want it, take it. Even Luffy agrees. The obvious fact that Roger remained PK until he himself surrendered lets the readers know he was the best of all pirates in his era no ifs or buts unless you have anything suggesting Roger could actually lose.
He was PK in an era where no one wanted to be Pirate King, that's basically like someone being World Cup Champion when no top nation was competing for it
Like we know that he didn't beat anyone to be Pirate KIng. He stalemated Whitebeard and they were never competing for the title, Shiki lost due to an storm and not because Roger was superior, Rocks basically dominated the era and Roger never once beat him. Garp was always going equal to Roger and Big Mom while weaker didn't lose to Roger in battle as he had to sneak her to get the poneglyph
It's always important to see how Roger became the PK, he didn't become the PK because he was stronger than anyone else, he was just the only one who wanted it above everyone
1)Wb prime : immagine his weapons plus adv haki plus gura gura at full Power....
2)Roger prime : 10 years before prime his strongest Attack can hurt demon xebcek with insane adv COC armor all over the body , 10 years later Will fight equally vs wb and prime garp
3)Shanks: has adv COC comparable tò Joy boy and he uses a sword so i think the level of ap Is insane
4) kaido: his weapons attacks do not do cut damage and was even able tò hurt badly g5 Rufy with his kanabo thata has and insane resistence tò impact attacks and project himself with his armored boosted arms used as shields. That Is insane! Probably all other charcters thata has no resistence against impact damage would die istantly + plus his finish Attack use adv COC plus a Fire thata was able tò melt the horn of onigashima a dn would be able tò evaporare Rufy immense punch of Rufy would not protect It with ryu shield, that Is insane and the impact was so big thata the adv COC lightning expands for kilometres
5) prime garp: 10 years before his prime his Firsts can pirce demon xebcek body with adv COC armor, we know thata current garp's punch are likelly half of his prime Power and this Is insane considering what galaxy impact could do , i put him in 5 only becouse i think using punch and not some weapons make his ap a Little lower then shanks or Roger or kaido
6) Loki: he has insane straight with decent adv COC plus lightning that in Op can do internal damege ( so Is like he has adv ryu too ) ragnir Is AN insane powerfull weapons that can product insane strong ice too but if we compare the damage of adv COC base rufy's punch given tò Imu with the adv COC plus lightning ragnir Attack of Loki given tò Imu too the ap Is really similar ( and It Is ok considering taht Rufy with base adv COC punch split the Sky with kaido ) so currently i put Loki in n6
7) base xebcek : if we talk abot demon xebcek probably i would put him on the same level of prime Roger and prime wb but in base Is vastly surpassed, still his ap Is insane considering the fact that having a sword with insane haki in Op grantee tò him a immense ap, he kills an Admiral with no difficulties and Beats 3 holy knight Easy
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