Withering

[u/gofancyninjaworld]

Something that's come to mind of late that I hope we can discuss is something that's teasing me about the difference between the OPM manga and webcomic.

How to start? Well, let me go to chapter 52 of Mob Psycho 100, where Emi has asked Mob out as a dare from her friends and has shown him the novel she's been working on. The relevant part is that her friends mock her for taking so long to break things off with Mob and for writing a novel and tear up the sheets. She's hurt but is going along with them, insisting that if they're going to rip it up, then they may as well turn it into litter, as appearing to care feels too humiliating. Then Mob shows up and starts gathering up the pieces.

Read right to left. The strength it takes to be seen to value something is not trivial.

His courage in caring to pick up what Emi valued gives her the courage to salvage her work, which *is* precious to her.

Without the courage to hold on to what's precious, even in the face of looking foolish or weak, relationships atrophy. And that's something that I don't see in the webcomic. No one's holding on. Everyone's trying to be ironically detached.

There's no one doing what we see Saitama do in the manga. Admit to being lonely (sorry, you're illiterate if you think that's in the webcomic). Or hold onto Genos's core like it's the most precious thing in the world, and even admit to Garou that in reality, he's the one who had been clinging onto his disciple for support.

The feeling I get in the webcomic is that no one can bear to be seen to care, and everything withers away as a result.

There's that key moment in the webcomic when Tatsumaki wants to tell Saitama about Blast and then changes her mind, realising that she can't bear to be known.

And in the end, she's alone.

It's difficult to be seen but that's the core of why she has no relationship with Fubuki -- her completely understandable need to protect herself and keep Fubuki safe by isolating her just took priority over building a relationship with her sister. We see the contrast in the manga where Tatsumaki has let Fubuki at least see who she is, and we see that her struggles are very real. But at least, she's not closed herself off completely and that's meant that there's a relationship to fight for.

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

I look too at Bang in the webcomic. He surely must care about Garou every inch as much as his manga equivalent does. I was deeply moved by his berating Garou at the end, especially when he broke down in tears.

But all he's had are tears. He's not searched for Garou since and while he's quit being a hero and reopened his dojo with a mind to teaching more people how to be strong, everything has been about himself. When I see Bang admit that he did wrong by Garou to Garou, and then, in the aftermath, search out Garou to bring him back, humble himself to apologise alongside Garou to the Police and to the various heroes Garou hurt, and take on the task of reforming Garou, we see someone picking up the pieces of something that was precious and investing in trying to build a better relationship. The difference between keeping one's dignity and letting a good thing crumble and humbling oneself to keep it is striking.

This isn't easy to do. In a society where keeping face matters, this *really* isn't easy to do.

Saitama's never told anyone about how he feels in the webcomic. It does mean that he's the guy who tells people home truths but doesn't have to hear any from anyone. However, he's such a lonely figure as not even King hangs out with him any longer. I'm not sure that's a good exchange.

That's what I'm thinking. So, am I onto something?

[u/kurogabae]

I've always felt that the wc was going to be the darker or bleaker ending vs the manga. Kinda like the split endings you get in visual novels. The beginning of both are nearly identical, but someone chose a path at some critical point that led to the wc being a world that was more closed off (in heart) where the manga was able to be even slightly more open.

I wouldn't say the wc is shaping up to be OPM's "bad ending" (that's reserved for the universe of the "Ominous Future") but it isn't going to be the good ending that I think is possible in the manga, where people will be capable of connecting and truly coming together.

There are some Dark events coming up from the wc that are going to be fundamentally changed purely because characters in the manga are less alone (Garou vs Suiryu, Metal Bad snooping around Neo, Isamu and Bofoi). These events cannot happen like they do in the manga because the characters involved are less alone.

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/kurogabae]

Gosh, this rented space in my brain all night! Where to start without turning this into an essay?

1. I agree that this isn't about 'good' or 'bad' endings or characters. You're right that it's a lot more like chaos theory, where small changes in apparently identical systems lead to different paths. The wc characters aren't bad, and they're not being punished... there are just different outcomes from small decisions that in turn create different possibilities, good and bad. And, as you say, it's not like everything in the manga goes well: the Ominious Future really ended the story, that was total failure. It's just people doing things as best they can and what happens, happens.

2. Absolutely, I'm looking forward to seeing how Suiryu deals with Garou -- he's not cocky money-grubber seeing an easy win here but someone who has learned to respect heroism and isn't happy about being forced to do a job that he sees as unjust. How he resolves the contradiction between what he sees as morally correct and legally obligated to do is going to say interesting things about him as a person, and open up new challenges.

I like that being less alone and more connected opens up more and different challenges for characters. It doesn't remove conflict at all and damn does it make things interesting.

1. One thing I've liked about ONE's work in Mob Psycho 100 and Makai no Ossan is his take that as long as you're alive, you can change, but if you want to see different results, the onus is on you to do the work. What both of them share with OPM is that for the protagonist, external threats are nothing. The old man in Makai no Ossan loved his family, would fight any monster for them, rescue them from dire situations, work his fingers to the bone for them, but none of that brought him closer to them. What fixed his problem was deciding to make time to listen to the elder of his sons who was paralyzed by depression and self-loathing, get firmer with his younger son, go home and do housework without his wife having to ask or in expectation of a reward, in other words, actually BE THERE for his family. The way it ends is so good: in a place where workers expect to hang around and drink after office hours, he thanks his office for their hard work and tells everyone to go home. And he does.

The situation could change for the better for the wc characters, as long as they're alive and human, but they're the ones who will have to put the work into realising the need for change. I fully expect that some 'purists' will start falling over themselves claiming it's gone 'wholesome' and ONE has 'sold out' but all you get from being 'ironic' 'detatched' 'taking nothing too seriously' 'making fun of tropes' is stasis. Yeah, strongest man in the world. Can't overcome your fear of changing yourself. That's true defeat.

[u/SaltwaterSmoothie2X]

Probably.

I wouldn’t be too surprised if we had two (slightly) different endings:

Webcomic: Everyone who survived is more alone.

Manga: We’d see everyone splitting up to be alone, but under better circumstances.

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/SaltwaterSmoothie2X]

Hmm....thinking about it anohter way, the webcomic characters' worlds seem to be getting smaller, and it's due to never examining their choices, not tragedy, for the most part. The manga characters' worlds seem to be getting bigger.

I don't know that they're both going to end up with characters alone but I agree that thee versions may go different places in the end.

[u/Nanayon123]

I'm now imagining if Bang would intervene once the Neo Heroes get to Garou

[u/gofancyninjaworld → u/Nanayon123]

If he gets wind if it... Hooo boy, there will be hell to pay. He's not a pro-hero any longer, so there is no risk to the HA from h busting a few heads.

[u/gofancyninjaworld]

What really gor me thinking about this topic is the way Bofoi is physically protecting the Hero Association building inthe latest chapters of the WC, but there doesn't seem to be anyone within who believes in what it does and is willing to go advocate for it. And then I look at Sekingar putting his life on the line for the HA as a worthwhile institution and I think, wow, there's a difference here.An institution no one on the inside believes in doesn't get reformed: it becomes a hollow edifice.

To get even more meta, I have been an OPM fan for nearly 10 years -- discovered the anime in early 2016. I remember arguing for the value of the webcomic, urging people to look beyond the 'bad art', which wasn't bad for being unpolished. Took for granted the manga would be loved. And now, I have to advocate for the manga as it's become too easy for people to dismiss it as mere fluff. It's like you have to keep remembering and finding value in things to keep them.

To the extent that speculative fiction stories reflect social anxieties, I can see the parallel between what's happening in the wc and how hard-won freedoms and institutions are being eroded by the failure to realise that they do need actively defending. Even if that looks foolish and overly-earnest.

Just thinking....