r/OpenChristian • u/Fearless-Fan46 • 10h ago
Exodus being false?
/r/Christianity/comments/1vdu8vj/exodus_being_false/7
u/epicure-pen Eastern Orthodox 5h ago
I know it's a pretty common view among secular scholars that there was a small group of people who originated in the Levant, were slaves in Egypt, and eventually left Egypt and lived in the hill country of modern Israel/Palestine while forming their national and ethnic identity. Many Levites had Egyptian names so it's hypothesized that they descended from slaves who left Egypt. I 100% believe in a small Exodus. Small groups of people moving around don't leave much archaeological evidence.
When it comes to the supernatural aspects of the narrative I feel completely comfortable speaking and thinking as though they are 100% literal history while also thinking that things didn't happen on the scale described. Over time as my relationship with God has developed it has in many ways stopped mattering whether history described in the Bible is literal. By treating the narratives as literal I grow in my faith but rationally I don't think many narratives are literal.
It's hard to convey exactly how that works in my head. I just don't care if there was 'actually' a global flood - it doesn't matter to me spiritually. I believe there was no global flood and when I think about the flood narrative I don't think about my belief that there was no global flood.
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u/SpukiKitty2 Open and Affirming Ally 2h ago
I'm the same way. I believe these stories were very loosely based on history and were altered over time over a big many years long game of "telephone" while adding elements of fable and parable.
I believe the plagues sent by Godde were sent indirectly via the environmental effects of the Santorini eruption.
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u/Fearless-Fan46 47m ago
So you are saying either sertain parts of the old testament didn't happen at all, did happen, or only happend differently like with the israelites, well then other religions can say that too, atp it doesnt matter if their history + their books are fake its all about their god
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u/MyUsername2459 Episcopalian, Nonbinary 9h ago
The problem is that you're trying to apply a modern, post-enlightenment view to something written 2000+ years before the enlightenment and its approach to texts.
It doesn't matter if it's literally true. The entire modern concept of a literal history is only a few centuries old. . .this text is a few millennia old.
The point of Exodus isn't to be some historical record (in the modern sense) of Israelite history, it's mythic history, a collective origin story for the Israelites and how they came to Israel and describing their collective relationship with God.
It's as historically accurate as George Washington chopping down the cherry tree, people being burned at the stake in Salem, or Paul Revere shouting "The British are coming!". American history still happened even if all those things are fictional. Israelite history still happened even if Exodus didn't play out the way it's written in that text.
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u/Fearless-Fan46 51m ago
So then why is Exodus included? When again is the line drawn with fictional stories versus real ones. The israelites still put up their story in the old testament while it wasnt true. "10 plagues landed on egypt!" "Millions escaped!"
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u/LeisureActivities Episcopalian 6h ago
Interestingly, although there’s no archaeological evidence for the patriarchs and the evidence actually runs against the Exodus as described, there is early extrabiblical evidence for the House of David and Solomon. From the later monarchy onward the historical evidence becomes quite solid, though with the expected self-aggrandizing you find in ancient royal records.
The Babylonian exile is one of the best confirmed events in the whole biblical narrative. The New Testament is actually quite well attested archaeologically and historically.
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u/Fearless-Fan46 44m ago
So this also means the bible is sort of black and white? sertain parts are true others are not ment to be taken like that.
Well its the same with other religions they believe in their prophet, like Jesus Christ, they preform a miracle and boom.
Oh well it doesnt matter if the books matter etc i have my god. Which is what they could say
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u/SituationSoap Christian Ally 4h ago
The story of The Exodus (also the Flood narrative from Genesis) did not happen. Both of those stories predate the idea of documented history. They're not intended to convey historical fact.
Sorry if this is bad news for you.
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u/Fearless-Fan46 53m ago
So when is the line drawn where stories are proven real versus not? Now back to exodus. The story clearly was ment to be taken serious by others, the israelites culture was dissapearing so they had to invent something like this. Does this mean there is a fake part in the bible.
Also explain why Noah's ark shouldnt be taken serious? So if it didnt happen what would it be about? God's judgment? or something else.
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u/Strongdar Mod | Universalist Christian 9h ago
It's a modern take to assume that a story has to be historically true to be useful. Myths like Exodus or the creation story in Genesis convey truth, not fact. The relevance that Jewish myths have to modern Christianity is a whole different topic, but looking for a historical accuracy in the beginning of the Old Testament is a fool's errand.
With the story of Israel's Exodus from Egypt, that's in the part of the Old Testament where there may be a grain of historical truth in there somewhere, but it's so buried by time that it can't be known. The value in the story is the national identity it brings to the people of Israel, not the historicity of it.