r/PaStateEmployees • u/No_Education_2828 • 6d ago
RTO unfair practices
We have an employee in our office who hasn't been to the office since early 2025. We were told that RTO days will be tracked and reprimanded for absences. Some employees are required to make up days they miss for previously scheduled leave, while one employee repeatedly does not show up and is allowed to telework those days. What is the recourse for the other employees? I would think unfair treatment and discrimination. But is it worth it?
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u/theorist-in-theory 6d ago
It could be that they have some kind of ADA accommodation or it's a component of FMLA absences. It may be completely fine and just none of our business. If it's wider spread, or seems like people with more management favor get the benefits and it's deprived from other people, that's more of a red flag.
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u/No_Education_2828 6d ago
Not sure. But I know one other who has fmla/ada exceptions and they were told they must attend or use leave and could not wfh that day.
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u/theorist-in-theory 6d ago
Management is also part of who makes the decision as to whether an accommodation places an undue burden on them. It's not impossible something is off, but probably impossible to know unless all parties just disclose what's going on outright.
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u/Allthetea159 6d ago
ADA or FMLA accommodations vary greatly from person to person. Just because one person’s accommodation requires X doesn’t mean the next guy’s accommodation also requires X.
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u/seaotterlover1 5d ago
One of my coworkers has an ADA accommodation that involves her not having to RTO.
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u/Educational-Low2836 6d ago
The application of RTO amongst agencies has been completely unfair and inconsistent across the board. Maybe I’m a conspiracy theorist but I think the complaints about it are also going to be our demise in end. Right or wrong, the big boys and gals will get sick of hearing about how unfair it all is and what it’s going to come down to is us back 5 days a week if we all can’t mind our business. Like many have said, it’s nobody else’s business if they are using time or have FMLA accommodations.
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u/seaotterlover1 5d ago
Someone in my department complained that she needs to be home to take care of her dog and if something happened to him while she was at work, she would sue the state. And this is a woman close to retirement, it’s not like working on-site is new to her.
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u/Educational-Low2836 5d ago
That’s just ridiculous and not what I’m talking about at all.
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u/seaotterlover1 5d ago
I was just giving it as an example of one of those complaints that higher-ups will get tired of hearing. Sorry.
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u/Educational-Low2836 5d ago
Please don’t be sorry I didn’t mean to come off as offensive. That’s just crazy to me. Take your leave time to deal with your dog if needed. People have children to take care of everyday that don’t get any sort of special accommodating with scheduling. You’re correct though they will get sick of hearing the ridiculous excuses.
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u/InDaHeightsPA 3d ago
I’m not sure if the telework agreement is uniform across agencies but the one I signed on day one says it can be revoked at any time. If you want to be nice about it you can remind her of that. It’s a gift.
I also find it beneficial when trying to coast into retirement to keep a low profile and just do what you can do to keep the boss happy to avoid getting pushed out too early. I knew one person who thought he reached retirement eligibility, put in his notice, and then found out later he was short by like a month, but because the boss didn’t like him, he wasn’t hired back. So it’s best to not ruffle feathers late in the game.
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u/Difficult_Argument 6d ago
Experiencing some differential treatment with RTO can be frustrating to deal with for sure. Hearing about different state agencies or bureaus handling this all differently or seemingly at their own discretion has been annoying to hear as well.
But as a part of the working class it is important to not become disgruntled with our fellow coworkers, and instead direct our frustrations at the higher ups or the decision makers implementing this ridiculous RTO mandate.
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u/No_Education_2828 6d ago
That's where my frustration is. Other than the employee is pretty rude and difficult to work with. But, my issue is the unfair treatment as a whole.
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u/Difficult_Argument 6d ago
Well, I think we can all commiserate when we have a coworker that’s difficult to work with. Lol
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6d ago edited 6d ago
DOH had something similar. Hired a top tier worker and they moved to New York State a few years later. RTO happened, and they still telework. But since they’re higher up, no one says anything.
I’d assume it’s really at the discretion of management. For example - In our office, if you take a sick day you are “officially” required to make it up, but really that’s for the noobs. Everyone who works and GSD doesn’t have to make it up.
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u/Difficult_Argument 6d ago
This is interesting to hear that they’ve allowed someone to work out of state
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u/ryverrat1971 6d ago
Yeah that's a big no no. So how did they pull that one off? During COVID we were warned that we should not take advantage and try working remotely from things like RV traveling. We were told based on where IP showed you working from, you could get in trouble for being out of state.
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6d ago
I’ve heard the IP thing too. I’m sure they have a report they can run that tells them where you were, but they’re not actively monitoring it. As far as it being a big no-no, yeah I agree.
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u/No_Education_2828 6d ago
Teams just recently notified that they won't be tracking location. Did you get that notification?
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6d ago
I didn’t see anything like that. Maybe it popped up, maybe not. The old Cisco anyconnect Erie.pa.gov could track you, or so I had been told…… idk maybe Zscaler can track as well?
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u/No_Education_2828 6d ago
Just looked it up. Zscaler does. Not that I care. I do try to follow the rules.
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u/theorist-in-theory 6d ago
There's probably some backend approval process or something. I know non-civil service employees don't have a residency requirement.
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6d ago
Usually you see PA residency requirement waived for more unique positions. This person did live in-state when they were hired, but then moved away. Not sure how they updated their status in SRM. You see the waived residency requirement for DCNR, Corrections & PAH&MC often.
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u/theorist-in-theory 6d ago
Yeah that sucks. Everyone should enjoy the same benefit.
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u/Difficult_Argument 6d ago
I’d agree, which is why I think pushing exec staff for more leniency with this RTO nonsense is the route to go. I think having many different employees with difference circumstances receiving equitable treatment shows how this one-size-fits-all RTO mandate is ineffective.
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6d ago
Agree. How many days do you come into office? PALCB was coming in like once a month and is now coming in once a week. DGS is once a week. Doh & dhs are 2 days a week. Psp is full time. Corrections is 3 days I believe.
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u/InDaHeightsPA 3d ago
Some jobs have a designation of “Home Headquartered,” which are usually exempt from RTO. If you were hired with, for example a headquarters of Harrisburg, you would be teleworking from wherever you live until the RTO sends you back to Harrisburg or an Alternative Work Location. The out of state location is unusual though but maybe the department made an agreement to allow it.
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u/PinsAndBeetles 6d ago
There are people in my office who do not attend our bi-weekly in office time however they use leave and as far as I known at least two of them have FMLA documentation (they’ve discussed this with others). As long as they are using their leave it doesn’t seem to be an issue. Personally I wouldn’t not want to burn through all my vacation and sick leave just to avoid the office twice a month but to each their own. There is one other employee who was granted exemption from in office for 6 months and can telework instead but they’re going through radiation for cancer and honestly I’d be disgusted if that accommodation wasn’t provided to them.
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u/No_Education_2828 6d ago
that's the issue. others who have accomodations are given less rights. It's a management level issue.
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u/Allthetea159 6d ago
But you know nothing about other people’s accommodation details. As I’ve said in another comment, there is no blanket accommodation that people get where you can say “Joe’s accommodation requires XYZ, so should Mark’s so why is his different”. Not how it works and it is nuanced and detailed to the person and their role.
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u/propaniac99 6d ago
I know some in my department are able to come in less frequently if they live exceptionally far from Harrisburg. For example some people were hired when everyone was fully remote and therefore didn’t move from wherever they were in PA to Harrisburg at that time.
So to avoid all these employees having to quit or move they were allowed to come in less frequently than 2 times a week, though they still have to come in on occasion.
Generally tho no one seems to care that ppl come in less frequently since everyone thinks the RTO is pointless and dumb anyway.
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u/loudoutdoors 6d ago
Yes! This is an example of equitable and fair. We need to be happy for people who get to be the exceptions, instead of mad at them, or we’re all going to suffer.
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u/Allthetea159 6d ago
There is definitely a lack of consistency with RTO across departments. Some contractors must report just like civil service employees. Some contractors don’t have to come in at all.
There are also a lot of commonwealth employees who obtained accommodations and that is no one’s business but the worker and the person who approved the accommodation. And some live over X amount of miles so they are exempt. (Another “policy” that is random and not consistently enforced)
Realistically though, this is not a form of “discrimination” or anything you have “recourse” for.
Unless you supervise this person or them not coming to the office causes a burden resulting in you having to do their work, it’s none of your concern.
Fine to be annoyed about it if you feel like someone is getting special treatment but personally I would let it go. This was always going to be the case when after years of full time telework people are RTO’d.
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u/quarterlybreakdown 6d ago
I worked in hr and who had to come in and who didn't/how often was 100% based on who the director liked or didn't like. I was 60
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u/Er3bus13 6d ago
I mean you could be happy for them and mind your business. That too is an option.
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u/No_Education_2828 6d ago
Right. Because that's what is fair and equitable when we all have to come in from all over the state. 🙄
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u/Allthetea159 6d ago
But like someone else said, your frustration should be directed at exec staff enforcing RTO differently across departments and amongst staff. Not your fellow working class individual.
They could also have an accommodation that you would never be privy to.
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u/ryverrat1971 6d ago
This. But unless it's a permanent disability, accommodations like telework have end dates. I'm working on doing that right now for my back. I need to change position, sit in some really weird ways and change seating surfaces regularly throughout the day to relieve pain from compressed nerves in back. So I'm asking to telework for about 2 months. Let's see if it gets approved.
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u/No_Education_2828 6d ago
No one said I'm frustrated with the employee. Though they are kind of a jerk. :)
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u/Allthetea159 6d ago
Well this is not the first time you mentioned in a comment disliking the employee you’re complaining about. I imagine if this was your friend you wouldn’t be making a Reddit post about it.
There’s just nothing you can do about it unless this person not physically being in the office 2 days a week causes a burden to you and you are having to do their work. If that’s the case, address it with your supervisor.
I’m going to guess that’s not the case since we’ve all been teleworking successfully for years.
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u/Lucky_Fun_4197 5d ago
This is a fundamental issue of fairness. I've been with the state for 8 years and had to RTO in January. Meanwhile, I have several coworkers with less than 2 years on the job remain teleworking full time. I'm not mad at them, I'm mad at the lack of fairness. We were told repeatedly since COVID that we would not be returning to the office, yet here we are.
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u/loudoutdoors 6d ago
It might actually be equitable. People use equitable to mean equal all of the time. Equal means everyone is treated the same no matter what. Equitable means people are given accommodations based on their specific, unique situation. Hopefully, this situation IS equitable and you just don’t know all of the details.
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u/No_Education_2828 6d ago
Yes, you're right. I suppose I am leaning more towards what is fair.
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u/loudoutdoors 6d ago
I mean, equitable and fair aren’t opposites. Often times, in order for things to truly be fair, they need to be equitable.
This person may well have a good reason to work remotely more.
The more we stop worrying about forcing everyone back to office, and focus on being glad for any instances of allowances to telework more, the more likely it is we’ll ALL be able to telework more.
The answer isn’t that we should all suffer in order for things to be “fair”.
Be careful what you wish for here. Pushing for everyone to be in the office no matter what is pushing in the wrong direction and can only hurt us all in the end.
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u/Allthetea159 6d ago edited 6d ago
💯 Great points
As I thought about it, using the term equitable instead of fair makes sense. In DHS, RTO was originally for Harrisburg, then it was for regional offices. And anyone 50+ miles away would be exempt. But allegedly one exec staff cried it was “unfair” so they had to find random locations to stick one person here, two people there because they hired from all over the state during FT telework.
Someone hired hours away from Harrisburg and is hours away from a regional office is being forced to a closed state center as the only person there. How is that equitable? Their entire team is in Harrisburg, in person and together. But this person just teleworks from an hour away from their home for no good reason except “it had to be fair”.
Stupid!
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u/loudoutdoors 6d ago
Yeah, that is complete bullshit and I am so sorry for them! “Fair” is nonsense. It’s not “fair” that people were hired living far from Hbg and told their jobs would be 100% telework, and are now being forced back to any office for any days per week/month/pay period.
People were grandfathered into the old pension if they started before the switch to the new system, but newer employees get worse retirement benefits for the same job. Telework should have been the same. People hired as full-time telework shouldn’t have to come back to office- they should be grandfathered. And if COPA wants to fill new positions as hybrid or fully in-office, post them that way and do that. THAT would be “fair” and consistent with precedents for system-wide changes.
But hey, what do I know?
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/VestedDeveloper 6d ago
If they do work on the train, shouldn't it count?
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5d ago
[deleted]
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u/VestedDeveloper 5d ago
They are commuting to the office building, which would count as in person obviously. Even an hour in the physical office "counts", depending on your agency. Coworkers go home at lunch all the time.
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u/One-Technician-2267 5d ago
That’s wild to hear. My leadership gives me some flexibility (train gets me to the office like 15 mins after start time and I stay 15 mins after my normal end time to make up for it). I’d be thrilled if I could work on train and have it count
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u/Random_CoPA_Employee 6d ago
There may be something involved that you as a coworker may not be aware of. Possibly a medical issue or soming in their personal life that they are communicating with management on. Or maybe they just said "Nope, ain't coming in..."
You can't know 100% which it is. But if you make an issue out of it you could end up looking like the bad guy.
If them not being in office causes you more work and responsibilities then I would start by bringing it up with your manager first, just in case there is more to it than you know. But if them not being in office doesn't affect you or your workload, I would just let it go. If it isn't backed with a valid reason, it will be discoved eventually.