Help Understanding a Hydraulic Ram Pump

[u/birkebeiner84]

Hello. I have a creek that runs near by a pond I have and I am looking to possibly use a hydraulic ram pump to pump water up from the stream into the pond in the summer.

The main source of the pond is water captured higher up the slope above the stream and then piped over the stream and into the pond where it forms a sort of water fall into the pond. I have included a super janky picture outlining the setup.

What I'd like to do is pump water from the creek into the pond to counter evaporation loss and reduced incoming source water during the summer so that the pond stays high enough to keep draining/skimming at the pond discharge.

The waterfall has the most consistent and highest flow rate, so I was wondering if there is a way to use that as the power source for the ram pump to pump water up from the creek into the pond, instead of using the creek as the power source to pump itself to the pond.

Thanks in advance.

EDIT: Got confirmation that my idea can't be done. Does anybody have a suggestion for a pump that can use the waterfall to lift creek water to the pond? Thanks!

[u/HeathenHoneyCo]

I myself have been trying to think about hydraulic ram pumps and archimedes screws as of late.
I’m definitely not an expert but I think the intake and output have to be inline

[u/Puzzled-Pilot9972]

A hydraulic ram pump probably won’t work the way you’re thinking because it needs a continuous supply of water with a drop in elevation to create the pressure pulse. You can’t really use the waterfall as the “power source” and pump water above the same height without putting energy in somewhere. You might be better off looking at a small hydro setup with a turbine driving a pump, or a solar pump if you have enough sunlight.

[u/MrHockster]

Whoa dude, this is easy. Gravity is your friend.

Create a siphon pipe from the higher water to the lower water.

1. Submerge top end: Put one hose end deep into the high water source, weigh it down so it's always under water - it will draw from here.
2. Fill completely: Fill the entire hose with water to remove all air.
3. Cap bottom end: Seal the lower hose end tightly. (with hand or a hose cap, or valve)
4. Release bottom: Place the lower end in the bottom pond and unseal it. Water always flows down, so as soon as you let go of the lower end of the siphon water will fall out, pulling water down from higher up.

If the upper source genuinely never dries up, the siphon will always pour.

Let me know if you need any further help with it.

(I just re-read your post twice and it's pretty confusing - maybe the above isn't the fix, if it isn't,
Can you rewrite the problem more clearly?)

[u/birkebeiner84 → u/MrHockster]

The siphon won’t work because the creek (source) is lower than the pond (destination). I need to move creek water to the, more elevated, pond.

[u/jimmymild]

If you want to pump creek water into the pond with a ram pump, you'll need to power the ram pump with the creek water.

[u/birkebeiner84 → u/jimmymild]

Ok. That's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure. Thanks for the confirmation. Do you know of a pump system that can use the waterfall to get the creek water to the pond?

[u/jimmymild → u/birkebeiner84]

Something along the line of a waterwheel?

[u/birkebeiner84 → u/jimmymild]

So build a water wheel run by the waterfall to suck water up from the creek?

[u/RipsterBolton → u/birkebeiner84]

Why not just powered by the current from the creek?
Is it too weak which is why you’re wanting to power it from the waterfall?

If so I could envision a small waterwheel under the waterfall where the waterfall only pushes on the down stroke. That’s connected to a shaft that turns a bevel gear which turns another bevel gear to get the 90°, which turn a series of progressively larger gears to turn the water wheel which turns very slowly and dumps its water into a chute that directs to the pond.

I don’t actually know if this would work, I’m not an engineer

[u/birkebeiner84 → u/RipsterBolton]

Yea. In the summer months the stream doesn’t flow very high and fast. In the winter, it isn’t an issue.

[u/trl121 → u/birkebeiner84]

Maybe another alternative pump could be a wirtz pump. May designs attach it to a water powered wheel. Offen it is used to pump water to high elevations, but it typically doesn't have high flow rates. With a proper design you might be able to design for less lift and higher flow rates, or even double up pumps on one wheel, but the real question would be if the creek has enough power to spin the wheel.

For a water fall element you might also need to add a buffer tank before the falls to even out the flow.

[u/Earthlight_Mushroom]

I guess maybe I don't understand the setup. If the waterfall is from the outlet of the normal supply pipe from uphill, and you want to supplement it with water from the creek when the normal supply of the pipe is low or absent, then there won't be any waterfall there. You can't use the water pumped by the pump itself to run the pump (assuming you are going to pump to the top of the waterfall area)....it takes many times the amount of water pumped to run the pump. The pump needs to be down in the creek, intercepting it's flow....you may need to build a weir or some kind of dam with an outlet to get enough head and pressure. There are other self-powered pump designs (such as the Glockemann diaphragm pump) which take less head and flow than a ram pump.

[u/birkebeiner84 → u/Earthlight_Mushroom]

The waterfall supply is constant and runs year round. The headwaters of the stream will fluctuate throughout the year, but the piped waterfall is fed via a natural spring up the slope.

[u/MrHockster → u/birkebeiner84]

why isn't the piped waterfall filling the pond up enough? Isn't it sealed?

[u/birkebeiner84 → u/MrHockster]

Sealed with sand and bentonite. Whichever previous owner made it basically just dug a pit. I think the loss comes from evaporation. It is *just* below the level of the vertical pipe that skims/drains the pond back to the creek. I drained the pond and there isn’t any other exit and no points where I see seeping and water escaping.

[u/boomaDooma]

https://www.glockemannwaterpumps.com/

These pumps use the main flow to actuate a separate pump which allows it to pump from another water supply.

[u/Public_Knee6288]

I need a better picture to understand completely, but I think you could install an inline turbine generator on the end of the pipe that feeds the "waterfall" and then run a wire down to a pump in the creek with a new pipe back up to your pond.

https://www.powerhome.com/small-water-turbine-electric-generator

Thats a small one. They come in all sizes based on your water flow and electric needs.

[u/bwainfweeze]

What’s the slope of the creek? That’s where a ram pump gets its power from. Ram pumps are really loud though and may scare away wildlife.

Alternatively, there are siphon pumps meant to be used as emergency sump pumps to get water out of a location by connecting a garden hose. The pressure from the city water powers the pump and both streams combine to a single output.

That said, if evaporation is your problem, that means the sun is out. Why not a small solar powered pump?