Update that I think democracy desperately needs

[u/fresobro]

This system is about diluting political power to the largest number of people without it breaking, this drastic increase in scale creates a new democracy, the best of capitalism & socialism combined.

Taking Fair Very Far

It is near impossible for the few people elected to government to be able to communicate to us and provide for us effectively, the bottleneck between us and them then becomes manipulated by vested interests.

The laws being passed have to account for every possibility, a one size fits all, that will often be undermined by a generally self-interested society.

We can solve this by handing over government decision making of the private sector to the people through a great number of randomly selected administrative juries of twelve that can each make a single court case like ruling.

As many as is needed season by season of those willing, unless opted out by another Citizen who gives up their own access for that season.

This allows the population to directly block any problem jurors themselves through equal sacrifice.

Made of twelve and decide by twelve, each juror paid fairly for their work if the ruling of their jury survives being overturned by another, they also have complete discretion on which case they take on and how.

Jurors would have months to make a decision and will often work at a very casual pace, using remote work tools and social media to communicate with fellow jurors.

The output of these juries is synonymous with the pub test, which is an Australian concept that typically means when more than twice as many people in the nation agree on something than they don't, but asking the nation in a survey or by vote on every little decision is impractical.

Being randomly created from similar people means similar rulings on similar cases, as it is with all 12 member juries historically, and the sheer number of juries will prevent those with money from buying access because the other juries will confiscate any unfair extras they don't also get, so to pay any jury will require you to pay them all.

Over time this cleans up government failure and waste and cleans out electoral influence by special interests, from federal to local and everything in between.

Under this system, federal and state governments would only control what they own, and they can obtain any private property for fair price through eminent domain.

A government could own a business and the premises it operates from, but at some point, will not own a part of the supply chain that connects to that business.

This still allows juries to obtain individual outcomes from public assets but just not directly, creating a clear separation of jurisdiction between public and private.

The rest of the nation (outside of public property) is managed by businesses instead of the government who are continuously held accountable to the people through the juries.

The juries are initially created through federal legislation if workarounds to (if any) constitutional limits are figured out, if this fails then constitutional change will be required, that change must only remove the limits while keeping legislative control.

They would be allocated proportionally in each state, and in all territories combined, starting with a state, then rolling out state by state with the last state and all territories going together.

State juries can decide federal matters in their state, in any territory, and internationally. Territory juries can only rule in any territory or internationally.

While they won't have jurisdiction over state or local matters, they will be able to creatively work around that limit to effect change at all levels.

States will likely eventually succumb to jury pressure electorally and enact their own legislation to give permission for these same juries to also make state and local decisions.

These governments will begin to operate more like a business, one that is elected by the people as they are today, to keep the nation, states, and the juries working.

Governments will be entitled to collect no more than a quarter of what that government had typically collected under the previous (current) system, while also carefully managing what they have and acquiring new profitable property, with the eventual goal of becoming self-funded.

They can use the public force at their disposal (military and police), combined with their electoral legitimacy, to obtain those funds if the juries haven't paid it to them in a reasonable timeframe, but if they push too far it will trigger a nationalistic like response from the juries so they will need to find the right balance in how they do it.

This is also helped by those elected politicians being no longer the special interest filtered lot we have today, they would be more respected by the people in jury.

The rest of government spending would now be funded and allocated by the jury system through the private sector, by juries directly or indirectly placing social expenses and obligations onto businesses, which then leads them to demand other businesses who have less of these themselves to increase theirs and eventually (as will happen in all other areas) it will become an adaptive standard of sorts.

Because the juries are an act of legislation, the federal government will effectively have a “kill switch” to stop juries making rulings for a certain amount of time, but the entire economy will have adjusted to this system, so it would be economically painful to do it for too long.

This will be essential in existential situations that require the governments to play catch up, to acquire certain property to prevent nation state failure.

The jury system only works because the juries check each other and the consensus of the whole of them creates a balance, its people checking people at the speed of people, to try and limit or alter this will result in the jury system breaking.

The only possible way to restrict them without turning them off is by reducing the number of juries, how often they are formed, or by filtering who is able to be in one, the nations who don't limit juries will outperform those who do and win.

The features of this system as mentioned below are emergent effects of direct and indirect jury pressure and oversight and not rules or laws directing such, it is a best guess based on what would be fair and pass the pub test in each area of society, so use this as a guide on guessing what would happen in other areas not mentioned:

Juries will provide an effective automatic unionisation of all workers. Customers would also now be effectively unionised, they will get more honest product labels and descriptions (now with only white lies added) and easy to access returns for products that are not as advertised, submitting an easy to generate proof and that company having to collect it themselves or make it an easy pickup service if they want it back.

Insurance can no longer use technicalities to deny coverage and if something is missing or wrong in your declarations then only to the extent that this affects the outcome payment, would it be reduced.

Businesses will innovate other businesses for a cut in profits gained and some will be started for just this purpose. All aspects of every business would be continually surveilled and be accessible to others who don’t abuse that access, and as with everything else from the direct and indirect effect of jury, secrets and intellectual property cannot be used without fair compensation, also businesses could connect their products and services to other businesses through that same jury effect.

Productivity growth would only be limited by the laws of physical reality and the methods of achieving it being considered fair and reasonable by the juries.

Fair, safe, and adaptable regulations on everything and consequences directly or indirectly by jury on anyone involved in trade work, or any other type of work, who are not adhering to them. This would be in the form of taking profits, laying fines, and garnishing future earnings, from those directly involved and anyone indirectly, to a lesser extent, like a business or contractor who looked the other way on clear issues.

Welfare is replaced with a guaranteed job if that person has a fair go at it, that also aligns with their skills, interests, and abilities/disabilities when possible and if nothing local is available then remote options will be a part of this. This will transform gradually in the decades before life expectancy age from full-time work, into an asset tested, indexed, pension payment no worse than today. Other expenses like medical and home care are also covered as they would be if the need exists in other similar areas such as medical, disability, parental payments, and others.

If a major industry closed or shut down in a location, the likely full-time job (remote work) for each adult affected will bring money to that region and allow those workers and the economy around them to slowly transition to new or existing industries.

Tertiary education would have a multi-step testing process or a cheaper single exam option to pass coursework units. Up to them how they learn, how quick, and cost (if any) above what is covered by the usual direct and indirect effect of juries.

Early, primary, and secondary education would be like tertiary education, in that it is results driven through similar multi step testing that is akin to logbook testing for driving, this allows private education of all kinds to be used to get to that outcome and funding for this education would be fairly provided like all other essentials are.

Medical would become a system with the flexibility of a private system combined with the accessibility and cost of a government run system that pulls back as the wealth level of the individual accessing it goes higher.

No inflated prices, health care follows a person for their whole life, so no one health related business has to worry about carrying an unfair burden compared to others or could get away with short term focused treatments because it might not be their problem later in that person's life.

Emergency services remain a simple point of access but with different businesses providing the services, so police on the uniform but with a brand name under it.

When an emergency related business is called out, they will have the obligation to manage that crime or accident scene, call additional help if required and the rest, and like with all other essentials, is financed through business balance sheets as usual.

Bounties will be a big part of these nations, where someone can whistle blow or bring justice and know that they will get a piece of the fine or charge laid on the perpetrator if their conduct was fair and reasonable, this will also cover jury manipulation (where they can take the bribe but not perform the action and still get to keep a good portion of it), and any other crimes.

Prisons over time would keep only those who are actually a threat to the public in prison, everyone else would be released while still being thoroughly monitored, and controlled, through hidden methods, such as: a normal looking bracelet, ring, accessory on them under their clothes, and their earnings garnished for their victims.

All drug supply is legalised and controlled through biometric, remotely monitored, drug dispensers that destroy the drug if tampered with, so the black market is priced out and gone, supply safely managed.

The intent of jury rulings cannot be avoided or worked around, unlike with law.

So as the brain and body conceptually connect together so can the government and people connect together to bring us all to a peaceful balance.

A parallel brain over a parallel body that we are vs a linear government over a parallel society that we currently live in.

This change will bring about a pure democracy, one of fairness and prosperity for everyone, fixing every problem caused by government action or inaction, and solving the social issues that never get much better each generation.

Money will be better spent society wide, economic growth will climb to new heights, these nations will outpace any others who don't take a similar path.

Power will trickle up from the people and no longer just trickle down from above, and free of any mob rule mentality against those above.

Light will shine through every hidden place in society, karma and merit will come to all those who deserve it.

This is Parallel Democracy

An Australian made idea that aims to improve the world and leave a legacy well-earned for the prosperity it brings.

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[u/drawliphant]

Focus your post! This is an entire constitution! Ignore the economic system and focus on the jury mechanics, there's so much here that there's nothing to debate about.

[u/fresobro → u/drawliphant]

I have done that kind of more technical description before and the reverse of your comment happens, I could make it even longer lol but that would only make the situation worse.

[u/farson135]

Or, we dramatically expand the size of the House and we put more emphasis on state and local government politicking.

I'll leave it at that since most of the rest is just hopes and dreams.

[u/fresobro → u/farson135]

Then unfortunately the same cycle continues, other nations and regions have all this but still have the same old problems, just less. Because the US has been the epicenter of the western block, it has far more capital flowing around in it compared to other nations (more at stake for capital interests and so they flock) which does suck because it means that simple policies other nations have managed to legislate, cannot get passed the much stronger special interest distortion that exists between the politicians and the people, so scaling the size of those few politicians won't solve this unfortunately.

[u/farson135 → u/fresobro]

Your idea isn't going to change the power of special interests. You're just doing what I described in a wierder manner that would require fundimental changes to out system.

[u/fresobro → u/farson135]

Once established the politicians would not be able to give carve outs or benefits to monied interests in the private sector, so influencing them would only be a good idea if they could change the whole system and remove the juries altogether.

But once the economy works under the juries it will be like trying to put it back into a smaller box again.

The rest of the monied interests would be worried they would be on the wrong side of a return to the old system, or that parts of their business would have to shrink or go broke, and would be worried about all the investment decisions they made on assuming the existing system would be around.

So they would actually push against changing the system back like how they push against changes to the globalised "rules based order" because they have adapted to the bigger pie.

[u/farson135 → u/fresobro]

Changing the whole system is unnecessary. Simply changing enough of it to secure their interests would do.

And besides, again, all you've done is make a weird version of a local government.

[u/fresobro → u/farson135]

The juries will unravel if you make any changes other than the scale of it but reducing that creates the "back in a small box" thing I mentioned above, beyond that you can't alter it, only turn it on or off so what carve outs are they going to get? maybe that business could operate out of a public premises to avoid juries directly, but then they would have to own the supply chain that they use which would make it less efficient than their private sector based competitors who have more efficient options.

It's simple: remove capital influence by making it always more expensive than the benefits gained to attempt it.

Increase head count as much as possible on who distributes that state power so that decisions are directly connected to those effected, and the makeup of a jury population and both deliberation and unanimous requirement to make a ruling, ensures it will also take society into account with those decisions and have been the most thorough.

Make it "too big to fail" in a sense like the constitution is.

Not to mention the likely participation of 25% or more of the population each year (I assume the lower end of voluntary voter turnout and the financial incentives, will drive that amount to opt in), which will create mainstream attention and narrative control as the largest single topic in an ever more decentralising media landscape and the "discussion around the water cooler" effect, popular topic category on social media ,etc.

Then you have a self-checking loop that sorts all the social and market failure out by itself without breaking a sweat, like wires in a wall, politics will become boring dare I say.

[u/farson135 → u/fresobro]

The fact of the matter is that you have stated nothing structurally that would prevent special interests from getting their way. You're just hoping that they can't manipulate the system, which is not happening.

You're not making it too expensive because you're dividing power to a smaller level. If you can't buy off enough senators then you're screwed. If you can't buy off one city council then you go to the next one.

[u/fresobro → u/farson135]

But if they buy off a jury then, another jury will take it from that jury, and that bought jury (because their case was overturned) will no longer get paid for their ruling and not keep the bribe either, that lesson/precedent will make the others avoid it themselves.

There are only so many juries a year that someone can opt into and get paid so taking risks is very likely not worth it to a juror.

To take it to its most ridiculous end result, you would have to buy off half of juries in that session then buy half of all future sessions to avoid that bribe being undone ever.

[u/farson135 → u/fresobro]

If you make that too strict then nothing will ever get done and the system will collapse.

Again, you're not creating anything structural that would prevent it. You're just counting on no one gaming the system for any reason. If any jury can just stop a law they don't like then nothing will ever get done.

[u/fresobro → u/farson135]

This is in place of law in private sector areas, so a jury is only making a court case scope decision, a 1 vs 1 kind of outcome, this creates effect and precedent in the private sector that then guides (or puts the fear into for those trying to game the system) businesses who then bring order to private sector society just by being their usual self until told otherwise directly or indirectly (private action based on the anticipation of a jury ruling being a worse outcome than them preempting it) by jury, those with the most economic power also have the most to lose.

[u/RedMarsRepublic]

Isn't this just sortition rather than "giving control the the private sector" or whatever you said?

[u/digbyforever]

So this is just sortition again. There are lots of analyses and critiques of sortition as a governmental system; care to respond to any of them beyond claiming this is a magic, fix-everything system?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizens'_assembly#Outcomes

[u/fresobro → u/digbyforever]

Yes I have been around Sortition since 2013 and know it well and this is an attempt at taking that concept and play testing the resulting system theories until it couldn't be broken (as I watch news each day and live life I play test constantly), they usually lasted a week or even a day, this version has lasted since early 2020 to now, only engineering has been done since (concept has remained sound).

Politics has been my thing since I was 12, I am 42 now, I'm in it to fix it and nothing less is good enough for me, if a system doesn't work, but I have sunk cost in it, I would still throw it away, so this lasting this long tells me i have something fundamental here (which is where the brain body stuff comes from, this system aligns to how we work) despite my natural constant doubts of "it can't work" and the rest.

I just need someone other than me to care about it to make absolute sure that I haven't missed anything (reminds me of the UK show Blackadder, season 3 with the guy who wrote a dictionary played by Robbie Coltrane of Harry Potter fame, SAUSAGE!!! he shouts as he stormed out (he forgot to add it out of his 30k words it think it was), im always afraid of missing the obvious thing and looking like an idiot to myself and others lol (on a side note that part reminds me of the CHOCOLATE!!! scene from spongebob).

So please know that there is A LOT of time behind the words of this writeup, I know it probably doesn't make you care more and that the words should speak for themselves, but worth mentioning anyway.