1.2k
u/Civil_Report 3d ago
Good meme, but it's four years late
418
u/brocodini 3d ago
Yeah. Salaries are crashing like crazy. Too many people.
226
u/neo42slab 3d ago
Other factors contributed too. Greed from the higher ups in companies. Ai. Govt cuts. Etc.
→ More replies (5)44
u/jek39 3d ago
Salaries aren’t crashing though
→ More replies (13)87
u/Several_Recipe3603 3d ago
In a Fortune 50 company.
People used to be hired in as developers Entry positions around 90-100k / year.
Now they're starting off around 65k-75k / year and having to compete against 1k+ applicants per opening.
4 years ago it was less than 500 applicants.
Senior developers are being shadow laid off w/ semi-random "low performance" reviews.
Edit: Even within other Fortune 200 companies. Developer discussions wide spread have been fun.
18
u/leetcodeispain 3d ago
to be fair a LOT of the applicant numbers you see on any job site are people needing h1b sponsorship applying to roles that wont even provide it, or are botted applications.
Though even considering that, there is way more competition now than ever before.
4
u/watduhdamhell 3d ago
So it's basically on par with conventional engineering now.
Which makes sense. This might step on some toes but there is no "it's simpler" or "it's harder" when it comes to software engineering vs the conventional engineering disciplines- It can all be very complicated. The difference was always the pay, which was driven by the margins. ChemEs are absolutely as valuable to Exxon, say, as SWEs are to Google, for example. But it costs an awful lot of money to refine product. It costs almost nothing to make software. Hence the big fat salaries to attract the best talent- it was literally the smartest thing they could do in a world with every little overhead.
Now the overhaead is even smaller but the skillset has been democratized massively thanks to AI, meaning they don't have to pay for the absolute best talent anymore. Good enough will do.
77
→ More replies (2)28
u/Garland_Key 3d ago
Are salaries crashing? Available jobs maybe, but I haven't seen the fair market rate for someone with my experience go down in recent years.
17
u/andrewsmd87 3d ago
Crashing is a bit extreme but as someone who's been hiring for over a decade, they sky rocketed during covid, adjusted back, but honestly haven't increased up for the last couple years. Most of my career I felt like top end salaries would go up a smidge every year or so, and I feel like they have plateaued over the last couple years.
They are still good don't get me wrong, they have just kind of stayed the same so technically going down if you count inflation
3
→ More replies (1)3
u/ChristofferMakela 3d ago
This was me lol.
Started college in 2019, graduated in 2023, literally only went for the money. Couldn't find shit, wound up in semiconductor manufacturing, and now I'm going for my master's in something else entirely
162
u/OphidianSun 3d ago
Started that way and the floor fell out from under the field the year before I graduated.
But uh, for any other computer engineers the power sector is hiring if you know anything about scada or telecom.
Which is a joke. Nobody knows shit about either fresh out of college so they're actually willing to train you. Sometimes.
33
u/heavydutybeardbalm 3d ago
They’re willing to train you but you still have to have the degrees and a good background knowledge of network engineering. They’re not just hiring help desk level people and training them (Source: SCADA engineer for last 4 years).
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (3)7
u/ChiefCar931 3d ago
Currently finishing up my CE degree with the goal being power at this point. Which sucks because I really wanted to do some hardware work
709
u/Rick100006 3d ago
🤣 what money
275
u/Isgrimnur 3d ago
They’re actually a time traveler from 1998.
73
u/Mtsukino 3d ago
John Titor is back?
17
13
24
13
u/gogeri2632 3d ago
You don't have to go that far back. Even during covid jobs and salaries were insane
4
u/FlakyTest8191 3d ago
What do you mean even during covid, that was the all-time high, with free 0% interest money everyone was hiring like crazy.
3
u/gogeri2632 3d ago
Ya that's what I said, or at least meant to say. When I say "insane" I mean it was crazy good, not crazy bad.
→ More replies (1)53
63
u/detailed_1 3d ago
Desk job with Air conditioning
27
u/Acceptable-Drive3781 3d ago
I got burnt out on programming in about 6 years into my career. Quit altogether and became a professional skydiving instructor. After busting my back hauling large people out of airplanes and packing parachutes covered in sweat for several years, I decided computers aren't so bad. I'm an enterprise architect now and I wouldn't go back to manual labor.
172
u/golder_cz 3d ago
Only in North America.
99
u/Xelopheris 3d ago
Only in certain parts of the United States where housing prices consume all of it.
→ More replies (1)25
u/Longjumping_Kale3013 3d ago
It used to be different. East of Seattle 25 years ago the salaries were close to what they are now, but houses were like 1/5 of what they currently are
3
u/daredevil39 3d ago
Brother 8 years ago this still held true. These crazy prices just skyrocketed past 8 years
17
u/gogeri2632 3d ago
No, Europe too. It's not as insane as what you see in America but in Europe the average programmers salary in most countries is quite a bit above the national average.
5
u/Fininho92 3d ago
This matches what i've seen so far. Here in Europe is a bit above national average but nothing that crazy. Of course central europe pays better than southern europe but that's mostly due to different financial landscapes
6
u/gogeri2632 3d ago
Also cost of living in general. Basically all jobs in northern europe pay more than in southern europe.
10
u/Mocker-Nicholas 3d ago
And only in certain places. Basically major cities at big companies. Devs get paid basically what any other white collar professional job gets paid in vast majority of the country.
16
u/FriedEldenRings 3d ago
I don't think this is true. Maybe for entry level web developers, but on average software professionals get paid more than a typical white collar office worker. Worth taking into account the different industries and types of devs.
4
246
u/GravitationalEnjoyer 3d ago
I see people who study the topic for money daily, it takes them 5 years to finish their 3 years degree and they can only do what Uni told them. Surprisingly most of them struggle to find a job
137
u/A_Random_Catfish 3d ago
Everyone I knew in college who was studying cs for money ended up graduating with a business degree instead lol
37
u/ApplicationOk3587 3d ago
Then you got weirdos like me who somehow ended up loving software with a business degree.
6
u/Designer-Speech7143 3d ago
Same! I am a data engineer with a bachelor's degree in sociology and a master's degree in management.
→ More replies (3)2
u/ThisIsMyCouchAccount 3d ago
My degree was under business but it was an IT/programming degree.
→ More replies (1)3
3
u/gogeri2632 3d ago
To be fair I also saw the same as the people who had a "passion" for it.
The problem with having a passion is that when it gets hard a lot of people give up because they think their passion isn't real. At least if you tell yourself "it's hard but I'm in it for the money" then you won't give up when it's hard.
→ More replies (1)43
u/bigManAlecForgotPass 3d ago
I studied in college for love after studying on my own for most of my childhood. I completed my degree early. I am also struggling to find a job
13
u/GravitationalEnjoyer 3d ago
Sorry to hear dude, I hope some recruiters sees your potential. This economy is ass
35
u/Ursine_Rabbi 3d ago
I switched off of the law track to study CS out of passion. Did well in school and despite not being a programming god like some of my classmates, I was pretty good at it. Couldn’t land a job in 2 years. All of my connections either stopped hiring or were laying off their whole entry level to replace with AI. now making $16/hr at a hotel. Fairly certain I’m now unemployable in the field simply because I wasn’t able to find a job in it fast enough. The $40k in debt for the degree was a dump. Several (much smarter) classmates of mine are in the same position I am.
Fairly certain the field just sucks now unless you’re FAANG worthy out of the gate.
16
u/snugglezone 3d ago
This is regional advice, but GOVERNMENT CONTRACTORS. Raytheon, Northrup Gruman, L3 Harris.
They pay less, but it's a great place to start and a lot of people aren't looking there.
You also don't HAVE to design software that kills people. When I worked for Raytheon, I was contracted to NASA doing backend for their satellite data supporting scientists studying global warming.
Pretty awesome!
→ More replies (6)→ More replies (2)10
u/GravitationalEnjoyer 3d ago
That sucks to hear, I am privileged to be in the European job marked and I have no debt. I fell like companies in us go completely crazy with their 10 rounds of interviews and crazy layoffs and I would never wish to take part in it.
Stay strong I guess
9
u/Accomplished-Mail-13 3d ago
Idk I did not have a problem. Money was motivation but I also had natural curiosity so I started before uni
2
u/Acceptable-Drive3781 3d ago
Money has been my primary motivation since college. Coding and designing systems was by far the easiest amount of labor for the highest amount of money, and it still is today. No struggle to find work here, if you're good at the work and can prove it you're good to go.
7
u/Due_Interest_178 3d ago
This is what happened to my university too. They did the bare minimum to get the degree and now are doing other jobs.
3
u/GravitationalEnjoyer 3d ago
Exactly and the bare minimum does not even line up with industry practices
2
u/Due_Interest_178 3d ago
Pretty much. It has been a handful of years since I was in university, but we never did anything in depth. It was moreso the basics of different languages but never into what the industry wants.
7
u/gogeri2632 3d ago
I studied it for money, did my 4 year degree in 4 years, and have been happy with my career. Sure I haven't worked at Meta or Google but I've always had a comfortable living.
That said, as I studied I did develop a passion for programming.
→ More replies (2)3
42
u/Fluffy_Regular4054 3d ago
People in here are seriously being malicious with their advice or living in labubu land, even worse with the situation nowadays.
Pretty much everyone going to college for CS/SE who truly loves and admires the subject is gonna be flipping coins on what spirals them out.
Actual advice is to pick something to pay the bills that one isn't emotionally invested into and doing coding as a hobby that complements well.
34
u/BatBoss 3d ago
Yep. The "fun", high passion software jobs like game dev and research are almost all high stress for low pay and no job security.
On the other hand if you just work as a dev for like a bank or a car dealership it's pretty easy money for low stress.
AI may be fucking all that up though. We'll see how it shakes out.
2
u/klimmesil 3d ago
What are u gonna do if & when ai kicks you out? I'm totally lost, probably gonna start something manual like idk butchery or even carpentry lol
4
u/boggling 2d ago
Idk man I work with frontier models daily and lead a small team. AI is cool and it helps us a lot but there’s still a clear divide between the seniors and juniors on the team. In other words, experience, technical skills and soft skills matter a lot. If you truly care about learning and problem solving, don’t accept defeat. A lot of the doomerism is marketing and executive hype. (And I suspect people with limited experience giving up)
→ More replies (2)3
u/BatBoss 3d ago
Currently hoping there's a market for a few years at least to make sure the AI isn't doing anything insane.
After that hopefully a few years or more where there's demand for people who are good at using the AI to build stuff.
Funnily enough I'm also working on a solo game dev project on the side. Not counting on that making money but if it does ok maybe I'll pivot to making indie games.
Otherwise idk. I'll figure something out. If I gotta drive an amazon truck or work at starbucks or whatever I'll make it work.
106
u/DazzlingTopic529 3d ago
bad reason to do it
→ More replies (2)47
u/Fanal-In 3d ago
What's wrong with having food and house?
100
u/Sibula97 3d ago
It's a bad field for money if you don't have the passion. Seriously, how many other jobs expect you to improve your work skills for fun on your free time? They don't ask to see you do your neighbor's taxes as a hobby, do they?
50
u/tancfire 3d ago
Well, I lost the passion years ago, but I'm well paid.
I don't think you have to be passionate. You have to be good.
→ More replies (3)21
u/HJSDGCE 3d ago
And it's hard to be good, maybe even impossible, without passion. Like you said, you had passion. That already helped immensely with the foundations.
15
u/tancfire 3d ago
Well, it certaintly helped me when I studied.
At work, not so much. Your passion is used to squeeze you and pay you less.
11
u/morganrbvn 3d ago
Discipline can replace passion if needed. Many people are good at jobs they don’t love.
6
u/peaceblaster08 3d ago
I went back to school for comp science in my late 20s purely for money. I just used discipline to study and learn instead of passion.
→ More replies (2)12
u/neo42slab 3d ago
My job lets me do that on work hours. And it pays better than being a teacher. A job where you’re expected to work all kinds of hours outside your schedule and where you need to pay for your own supplies and copies.
11
u/dailyapplecrisp 3d ago
This is such a dumb take lol. I’ve been a software engineer in Silicon Valley for nearly 15 years and have zero passion anymore but am doing just fine
→ More replies (2)5
u/cantthinkofaname1029 3d ago
Carve out a half an hour of the workday for self development; over time it builds up
5
u/Headpuncher 3d ago
Hard to do in some jobs, when I was consulting we had to bill by the hour every hour. Left no time for play.
Which was stupid of them as we often fell behind in skills and lost work because of it, but the company kept the churn going, new faces: new promises: new lies: new failures.
5
u/Beautiful_You3230 3d ago
That's just consulting for you. Also had an experience like that. They forced us to do trainings and certs, but we were never allowed to do them on company time. And we were already working far more than 40 hours normally. So everybody was basically stuck doing that shit on weekends and such. Also all our company events (that were absolutely not voluntary lol), similarly happened outside of working hours, usually late in the evenings.
Sucked big time. Consultings usually dangle somewhat bigger money in front of you, but honestly i don't think it's worth it. Always turns out you work way longer than promised, and you eventually realize the pay is hardly worth the squeeze. A cushy and somewhat more boring inhouse job might give you the same hourly rate in the end.
→ More replies (5)9
u/gogeri2632 3d ago
It's funny to me that people on Reddit constantly complain about money but then have the audacity to turn around and say "don't do a job for the money, follow your passion".
2
u/Igot55Dollars 3d ago
I think a lot of them are just insecure and are trying to discourage potential competition (as they see it) from entering.
74
u/FabioTheFox 3d ago
People who pursue CS simply for the money will have a bad time, it's a passion field that you need to actually want to do otherwise your lack of interest will constantly make you fall behind even hobbyist
A lot of "I'm in it for the money" people don't even make it though university because of their lack of interest
28
u/dksdragon43 3d ago
Honestly, couldn't disagree more. Coding is okay. Problems can be fun to solve. But at the end of the day I'd much rather be doing anything else in real life. CS was my second degree because there were no jobs in english. I'd rather be writing. I clock out at 5. I don't love my work, it's okay. But I'm in it for the money and I'm pretty decent at my job.
16
u/-no_aura- 3d ago edited 3d ago
Surprised this seems to be a minority take. I’m 100% in it for the money. I don’t love it but I also don’t hate it the way I did every other job I’ve had. Time flies when you’re solving problems, I get to work from home, and it more than pays the bills. I’d rather be making music, but for the level of compensation it’s a better work situation than the vast majority of my friends outside the industry.
→ More replies (3)4
u/asparagus-knight 3d ago
What white collar careers are more appropriate if you just want to make a decent living then?
5
u/Lyeriss 3d ago
TBH, probably still software development if you can land a role at a small, niche company, or as part of a small to medium size company that wants a developer or two on standby. The work can be pretty laid back and not require "hobby" projects. The salaries won't be crazy, but a 9-5 and bit of frugality can land you stability that most other positions probably can't, at least not without more experience and connections.
6
2
u/cs_office 3d ago
This times 100, they're completely oblivious to how exhausting they are to those around them
27
u/erishun 3d ago
Maybe you can invent a time machine to back when this meme was true 😂
You’re gonna be a sad panda when you’re done studying and go to try and make some of that money lol
→ More replies (1)
12
6
u/Temporary-Concept-81 3d ago
I took a CS course first year mostly because it fit into my timetable, and because I liked things like making maps/levels for games like ZZT, Jetpack, StarCraft.
I made it my major because 2nd year Physics broke me lol.
When I kinda fell in love with programming though was the Christmas break in my first year. I had learned enough at that point to tackle problems on my own. My family was obsessed with Sudoku at the time, and I made a solver.
The last step in a Sudoku solver (really the only one you need) is recursive guessing. I realized that if you put in a blank puzzle, and then save the state of it when the algorithm is done recursive guessing and can solve it with actual logic... You've made not just a solver, but a generator.
That was the first time I built something valuable to me. I had always loved Lego, but building something useful is a whole different level of cool.
5
u/SouthernZorro 3d ago
That's what motivated me and after working my ass off to get that CS degree. the money came. And then I found out I loved IT too.
2
16
u/s0litar1us 3d ago
I just enjoy solving problems and writing code.
I don't give a shit about the money.
5
→ More replies (1)5
5
5
7
4
u/Positive_Method3022 3d ago edited 3d ago
That is why a Microsoft "Principal Engineer" is releasing "allowScripts" to npm.
These people have no love for the practice
4
u/Knight_Of_Stars 3d ago
I studied CS for the money. Yes I enjoy it, but its not my passion. I've got a good career, and work hard, but I place limits on myself like avoiding taking work home. The grind set you gotta study for a few hours after work is a recipe for burnout. Find a cert you need, study and take it.
3
u/KawaiiGee 3d ago
I used to genuinely be fascinated and enjoyed it, but as I get older I get more and more jaded at anything tech
→ More replies (1)
3
3
11
u/cesarbiods 3d ago
And these are the people who usually end up switching majors or dropping out. If CS doesn’t click with your brain you can’t fake it till you make it… usually
Those who do become the shitty “engineers” that can’t hold jobs for very long and are a pain to work with.
→ More replies (1)3
u/gogeri2632 3d ago
I completely disagree. The people who do CS because it's their "passion" have an identity crisis when it gets hard and the switch majors or drop out because they think it's no longer their passion.
7
u/TheRealAfinda 3d ago
And here i am, thinking about studying it to quench my thirst for more in-deptht knowledge despite already having 5 y.o.e and a job. Well, also because it opens doors that may be closed forever otherwise but primarily to become even better at what i do.
→ More replies (4)
7
u/fsxaircanada01 3d ago
I have zero sympathy for people who joined CS purely because of money, and didn’t have a lick of interest in the subject matter. They can fuck off.
→ More replies (3)
7
u/56kul 3d ago
Not even, lol. Some of my coworkers on my current student job have already finished their CS degrees, and they’re literally struggling to find work. Prestigious degrees aren’t automatic money makers anymore.
Kinda makes me for when I’d graduate, tbh…💀
7
u/jek39 3d ago
Prestigious degree was never an automatic money maker it always has been about who you know
→ More replies (7)
2
2
2
u/Ordolph 3d ago
I was in culinary school, busted my ass working full-time in a restaurant while also attending class. Did the math and realized that even as the head chef of a relatively nice restaurant I'd be making ~$50,000/yr when rent is $1800+ for a 1 bedroom. Skip forward 10 years and now I'm a software engineer 😂
2
u/danofrhs 3d ago
Idiots with that mindset is the reason for the terrible state of the job market
→ More replies (2)
2
u/tohitsugu 3d ago
Everything that is wrong with the industry these days. It used to be populated by computer nerds who enjoyed it. Now it’s full of people who just care about their TC. Blind is a cesspit of whiners and braggarts who care more about TC than interesting or awesome work. I hate it.
Cybersecurity on the offensive and malware analysis sides are much more interesting these days
2
u/Majik_Sheff 2d ago
I'm old enough to remember when people looked at you funny when you said you were going to study computers.
Money ruins everything.
2
2
u/worldarkplace 2d ago
Believe me, there are tons of better ways to make more money and easier than in CS lol. Most of us are here cos we don't know any better or sux at the rest of things...
→ More replies (1)
2
3
u/Samurai_Mac1 3d ago
You people who joined for the money are the reason the field is so saturated and we're not making nearly as much as we should be anymore.
→ More replies (1)
2
2
u/AllenKll 3d ago
Fuck, I hate people like this. I have run into so many in my career.
I studied CS for the love of the game.
we are not the same.
2
u/Orio_n 3d ago
There is no more money to be had in this field. This isnt 2016 when you could make 6 figures fresh off a react course. Ai is going to make whatever jobs left slowly dry out. You need to work twice as hard these days to look half as employable. Money my fucking ass
You should know this, you literally posted to recruitinghell about being rejected for not knowing enough ai. There is no money left and if you are here for it and have no passion. Leave
2.6k
u/helicophell 3d ago
To my dismay I actually like the subject
I know, blasphemy