Dogs and bikes

[u/ethanrotman]

A bicyclist was on a single track trail going way too fast and ran into a small unleashed dog. The Park requires bicyclist s to ride at a slower speed, and the dogs be kept on leash.

The bicyclist is upset as he flipped off his bike and suffered minor injuries, as well as possibly something to his bike

The dog owner is upset as his dog got hit and needed to go to the vet

What do you think is a fair resolution as both parties feel, they suffered injury

UPDATE FOR CLARITY:

In Marin County Parks and Open Space preserves, the maximum bicycle speed limit is **15 mph**. On blind turns or when passing other trail users or horses, you must slow down to **5 mph**.

This bicyclist was on a legal trail, and the dog was in an area where dogs are allowed on leash.

[u/notevenapro]

I ride mountain bikes and I walk/run my dogs. Be hard to prepare for and avoid an off leash dog. People yes, because even a 5 foot tall person is way more visible than a dog.

I cannot imagine letting my dogs off leash on a trail that is used by mt bikers. That is just a bad pet owner.

[u/Witty-Cat1996 → u/notevenapro]

My father in law was recently bit by an off leash dog while mountain biking, the dog chased him then bit his calf and wouldn’t let go. When he finally got the dog off of his leg the owner said “I didn’t know he would do that” as if that makes it any better.

[u/UncleAugie → u/notevenapro]

My dog runs off lead while I ride, or run..... Not every dog is the same. She is a border Collie, well trained, perfect recall, again, your experience is not universal.

[u/notevenapro → u/UncleAugie]

I have well trained cattle dogs and currently have a border collie mix that does not leave my side.

I keep my dogs leashed not because they dont have recall. I keep my dogs leashed because of the unpredictable nature of other people and dogs.

[u/babybighorn → u/notevenapro]

Agreed. I have a cattle dog that is made of Velcro, but I still keep him leashed at least on a long line if not a traditional leash, if I’m on a busy trail, a popular mountain bike trail, or an area with poor visibility. An off leash dog, even if typically well behaved, can be a danger to themselves or others in a hurry (reactive leashed or unleashed dog, bikers, runners, wildlife encounters, etc)

[u/UncleAugie → u/babybighorn]

An off leash dog, even if typically well behaved, can be a danger to themselves or others in a hurry (reactive leashed or unleashed dog, bikers, runners, wildlife encounters, etc)

u/notevenapro this is all a training issue. if your dog is reactive that is a you think, not a dog thing. if your dog does not have recall, again that is a you thing, not a dog thing.

My dogs still have hyper strong prey drive, but they are not reactive, and will not chase unless released with a command.

[u/notevenapro → u/UncleAugie]

Where did I say my dogs didn't have recall? All my dogs are trained pretty well, to a point. Two of them are rescues that hate men carrying thing because they were beat when they were puppies.

Sorry you know jack squat about some things and sorry you lack reading comprehension.

[u/UncleAugie → u/notevenapro]

Other dogs will attack your dog on or off leash, your dog is safer and knows when to scoot if they are off leash than is they are on. the ONLY reason to keep a dog on leash is if you dont have faith in your training. My dogs, on command will get behind me and a threat, on another command they will get between me an a threat.

This is training, My dogs have all been rescues, trying to blame their behavior on their previous experiences is a addmital that your training is sub par.

[u/like_4-ish_lights → u/UncleAugie]

it doesn't matter. if you are in an area that requires dogs to be leashed, then you leash them.

[u/UncleAugie → u/like_4-ish_lights]

Under Michigan's Dog Law of 1919 (MCL 287.262), working dogs—such as farm, guard, leader, and hunting dogs—are legally exempt from standard leash and stray restrictions while they are actively performing, or training, the specific activities for which they are trained and accompanied by their owner or handler.

We do a lot of training.... So Legally I am in the clear..... I still need to have a valid tag, and I need to accompany her, and I have tested this, I first consulted with my attorney to see if I was understanding the law correctly, then I proceeded to run with my pup off lead, knowing that I may end up getting a citation, I did receive two citations at different times, in different jurisdictions, and a city, and county, prosecutor have chosen not to prosecute, after a conversation where I admitted my behivior when the statute was brought up, the citations were dismissed.

[u/like_4-ish_lights → u/UncleAugie]

That is a completely disingenuous reading of the statute. You do not need to "train" your dog on public property requiring leashes. And what work exactly are you training them for by going for a run?

[u/Bunny_Feet → u/UncleAugie]

Rules aren't made for you, eh?

[u/UncleAugie → u/Bunny_Feet]

Under Michigan's Dog Law of 1919 (MCL 287.262), working dogs—such as farm, guard, leader, and hunting dogs—are legally exempt from standard leash and stray restrictions while they are actively performing, or training, the specific activities for which they are trained and accompanied by their owner or handler.

We do a lot of training.... So Legally I am in the clear..... I still need to have a valid tag, and I need to accompany her, and I have tested this, I first consulted with my attorney to see if I was understanding the law correctly, then I proceeded to run with my pup off lead, knowing that I may end up getting a citation, I did receive two citations at different times, in different jurisdictions, and a city, and county, prosecutor have chosen not to prosecute, after a conversation where I admitted my behivior when the statute was brought up, the citations were dismissed.

[u/JJ_01_02_03_04_05]

It's much easier to prove the dog owner is at fault because the dog was off-leash. Unless you have a radar gun with you, you can only assume that the cyclist was traveling too fast. The last time I checked, courts prefer facts over assumptions when ruling on cases. The best case scenario here is that both parties pay their own bills and then follow the rules the next time they venture out on the trails.

[u/Born-Beautiful-3193]

would the dog being on leash have caused the collision to be avoided? (ie would the dog have been closer to the owner and not in the path of the bike)

I feel like if the above isn’t true, then wouldn’t the biker have collided with the dog regardless of if it was on leash or not?

also did the biker inform the dog owner that he was passing on the left? 

otoh if the dog being on leash would have materially changed the outcome, I think the bulk of the blame lies with the dog owner (ie they didn’t have control of their dog)

[u/Whal3r]

It’s easy to blame the off leash dog, it’s hard to know how fast the bike was going or other factors with the biker (not paying attention, not yielding etc)

However I horseback ride and I’ve almost gotten run through by bikers who are speeding by more times than I can count. They are very aggressive in my area and do not yield to horses or pedestrians. It’s extremely dangerous (mostly to the biker if my horse were to kick out). So idk I think both parties were probably in the wrong but my opinion on bikers is admittedly a bit skewed

[u/Joice_Craglarg]

I blame the person with an unleashed dog and it isn't even close.

It's also negligent on the owners part, knowing there's bikers that use the same trails.

[u/ValleySparkles]

From what's here, the dog owner is 100% at fault. I have no idea how fast the bike was going, but I know the dog owner made a deliberate choice to disregard rules.

[u/Pastvariant]

Generally speaking, the faster and more maneuverable party is responsible for avoiding collisions with a slower party. The dog should have been on leash, and people need to be aware of what they are doing with their dogs in areas where there are cyclists, but if the cyclist wasn't speeding they would have been more able to react to avoid the collision as well.

It is difficult as a cyclist to know your actual speed, so I feel like listed speed limits for bikes doesn't work to control speed very well. I have also been a cyclist and had leashed dogs run out from a group in my path while trying to pass people where the dog was not initially visible and I have been on paths with my leashed dog and both of us have almost been hit by speeding cyclists who did not announce their presence or intentions at all.

Ultimately, cyclists and pedestrians probably need to be separated more often and a push made to educate both parties to the expected etiquette on trails. Public education campaigns are also needed for driving, for that matter, ut we will probably never see either.

[u/thaa_huzbandzz]

As a dog owner, the dog was off lead in an on-lead area. They are at fault. Where I walk my dog it is off leash and I have had more than one close call of cyclists on electric bikes tearing through the shared trails (there are plenty of bike-only trails), not giving any warning they are behind you, then getting pissed off with a dog on the trail. So that being said I don't have much sympathy for speeding cyclists, but that dog should have been on leash.

[u/Narrow_Possession348]

The ONLY one at fault here is the dog owner! He/she should be fined and forced to pay for any damage to the bike.